10 Prince William County schools will get 35 trailers. Trailers absorb student overflow when there aren’t enough classrooms for the given amount of kids. This practice has gone on for years in Prince William County.
Prince William County will soon have 400,000 residents so the need for additional school space comes as no surprise. What does cause surprise is the fact that several members of the planning commission of Prince William County took it upon themselves to admonish the school system for not holding public hearings over putting in classroom trailers.
HUH?
Either a school has enough classroom space or they don’t. If they don’t, and all closets and cubby holes have been filled with desks/kids/teachers, then trailers go in. Shouldn’t the planning commission be planning and not overstepping its bounds with the school system? Here is the first affrontery as printed in Manassas News and Messenger:
“
I think the schools would do itself a favor to solicit and encourage as much public input as possible, so those decisions are made with the highest level and highest degree of public information,” said chairman Gary Friedman, who was the lone dissenter on the 10-trailer request for Glenkirk Elementary School.
“Citizen input is an invaluable part of this process,” said Brentsville District commissioner Ronald K. Burgess. “I have seen this commission turn on a dime as a result of citizen input.
The approval process is called public facility review. It is required by Virginia law. Generally the process is that the planning office recommends approval and the planning commission approves the request. The reason all this is to be done is to make sure everyone is on the same sheet of music with the comprehensive plan. (a glossary is probably needed at this point)
There was some controversy several years ago and the planning commission denied trailers at Brentsville High School. The matter is still in litigation, according to insidenova.com.
[I]n spring 2007, the commission ruled against the placement of trailers at Brentsville High School despite a recommendation for approval by planning staff. The commission’s decision was overruled by the county board of supervisors later that spring but eventually led to a school board-issued lawsuit.
In the yet-to-be concluded legal matter, school officials claimed that these requests for approval are essentially unnecessary and have only delayed their ability, in some cases, to properly prepare for upcoming school years.
Schools Supervisor of Land Acquisition and Capital Improvement Plan Maureen Hannon seems to feel that the public has had plenty of time for input during the CIP budget hearings. Friedman also criticized the school board’s timing on this request. Schools Associate Superintendent for Finance & Support Services David Cline also weighed in on the issue, saying that sometimes the request was earlier, sometimes it was later, depending on the amount of time it takes the county to go through the process.
Former county planning director Roger Snyder was the only speaker at this hearing. He informed those in attendance that the meeting was a waste of time and a waste of tax payer money.
“It’s [this public hearing] driven more by politics and second guessing of the school board and the board of supervisors than a real need for a public hearing,” Snyder told the commission.
Snyder went on to say that the commission shouldn’t feel compelled to do the job of the school board.
Too bad those who plan for the future don’t come with built in 20/20 foresight. Prince William County has been one of the fastest growing counties in the nation for 4 decades. Equally distressing is that members of the planning commission feel compelled to tell the school board how to do its business. Is Gary Friedman just a meddler? It seems everywhere he goes, whether it is the Democratic Committee in Gainesville or his planning commission job, contention just seems to follow him.
School boards operate independently from the parent county. Perhaps a review course is needed for all county employees. Outside of the approval process mandated by state law, the county needs to back off and remember that the school board and its employees operate independently of county government in most cases. Friedman and Corey Stewart might want to take the very first class offered.
[Hopefully contributors like MOM and Elena will fill in some of the missing pieces in this post. I do not know all the history here, but that makes for healthy discussion, doesn’t it?]
The real issue here is planning, planning for infrastructure before local government approves additional housing. This is a classic example of the “cart before the horse” in my opinion. All these new residents and NO proper analysis of what happens to the schools when you approve large developments.
Glenkirk Elementary is only, what 2 or 3 years old, WHY are trailers even needed! Having said that though, the reality is that you have to have a place for children to learn, but the real fault lies at the BOCS for creating this situation to begin with in my opinion.
I think the School Board should have held public meetings, too. Parents should be heard when it comes to their kids being in trailers. Besides…if there are hearings, maybe the BOCS will get the message louder and clearer that our schools are still too crowded.
Of course, we could hold classes in BOCS chambers and see if that gets some attention.
There were budget hearings. How many do they need?
The point here is that the county should not be interferring in school board business. School boards are independent.
I think that Elena makes an excellent point about it all starting with the BOCS approval of these large developments.
I also noticed how many of the newer schools were receiving trailers. Battlefield is very new. It has been overcrowded for several years now, to the point some of the specialty programs are closed to students whose base school is not Battlefield. The Gainesville Middle School was at capacity before it opened.
Pinko, please tell me what good a public meeting held exclusively over putting in trailers would do? Either trailers are needed or they aren’t. What’s do discuss? If there are any public hearings, they should be at the county end, not the school board end when it comes to overcrowding of this nature.
Mom, come out, come out, where ever you are!! This is right up your alley!
Ask and ye shall receive. Everybody is right to some extent. 1. Public hearing are required and are a prudent thing 2. The BOCS is largely to blame for the requirement for trailers to make up classroom shortfall 3. The School Board is equally to blame.
The problem is a complex one brought about largely by short-sighted officials (elected and appointed), poor planning and an over-reliance on if not lust for proffers.
The School’s Planning Office does a lousy job of planning for growth based on on the number of unbuilt yet approved residential units in the county, when planning for new schools they seemingly rely primarily on existing units. Conversely, when advising on boundary adjustments they seemingly place a great reliance on unbuilt units when it suits their particular motives. Heaven forbid you call Mr. Beavers on it, as he generally displays an arrogance and temper that would even make Corey blush. I’ve seen him get so mad at a straight-forward question that spit flew from his mouth as he attempted to throw out the individual with the temerity to ask. Don’t know who could have made him that mad, wink, wink, but if he hadn’t been so arrogant and condescending I suspect he would have been treated a little nicer. Without going into the details (again) the Silver Lake Middle School site is a perfect example of the lack of forethought by the School’s Planning Office when it comes to “free” land in the form of proffers. What Mensa member puts a middle school on land that requires remediation and lies between a lake and a flooded quarry, all accessed from Antioch Road? Answer, the Planning Office and her Excellency Lucy. Thus the Planning Office does a shoddy job and the School Board rubber stamps it with a reccomendation to the BOCS.
The County Planning Office is guilty of similar shoddy planning and one could argue simply takes the School’s Planning Office reccomendation and reprints it. Look at the Elementary Site acquired as a proffer from the UVA Foundation application. When it first came in a large wetland area was denoted on the site plan. By the time the plan went to the BOCS, the wetlands had disappeared and no mention was made of the fact that the property borders on North Fork Creek. Again, what brain surgeon places an elementary school adjacent to a creek and industrial area.
Then there is our far-sighted Board, the most exemplary member being our Brentsville Supervisor. Although almost single-handedly responsible for the mess that is the Linton Hall Corridor and the overcrowding at Brentsville, he is now the savior of the county by way of his moratorium on rezonings, which coincidently expired the day after the election when things returned to business as usual. Wally, or Mr. Transparent, can’t seem to get it through his head that people remember what he has done or said from month to month. One week he kills the addition of six houses to a subdivision in the Brentsville District, citing overcrowding at BDHS and the next argues for the addition of hundreds of homes that will adversely impact Battlefield. Hopefully Mr. Transparent won’t be in office much longer, a thought I’m sure the residents of Buckland would echo. To be sure Wally shouldn’t bear the blame alone, Jenkins, Caddigan and Nohe are also to blame. Curiously I’ll give Corey a passing grade on this issue and much to most of your chagrin, I’ll give Stirrup a A-.
I guess we now know who has the direct dial up to MOM. Thanks Chris, thanks MOM.
Who has the Brentsville Trailer history and information about the law suit that has not yet been settled?
My problem is that someone like Gary Friedman who is all over the political spectrum in this county thinks it is his place to tell the school board and its representatives what to do.
Corey Stewart also feels he has the right to tell them how to do their business.
Regardless of how inept the school board might be, the 2 are separate bodies.
They may be separate bodies but the School Board derives the lions share of its budget from county funds. I have always had a problem with the “agreement” between the BOCS and the School Board wherein the BOCS simply hands over more than 50% of their funding to Schools without any manner of oversight. To me it is simply a cop out and an abdication of their fiscal responsiblity. Perhaps if they reviewed the Schools budget, there might be less wasteful spending (perhaps too optimistic but there is that chance). With regard to Gary, he’s actually right on this one as the School System and the School Board typically don’t operate in full sunlight and when they do, they often dismiss any input as the uniformed rantings of the proletariat (See: Knight, Carol).
Regardless of what we think should happen, legally they are 2 separate bodies. The financial dependence does not give the BOCS and their departments power. The people of Prince William elect their school members to run things, not the BOCS.
Mom, I think you are assigning right of oversight where none exists. Independence is one of the down sides of elected school boards. I sort of think of it as checks and balances. I remember the old days around here when one old big guy who drove a red sports car rode rough-shod…
I believe the first and foremost responsibility of the BOCS is a fiduciary one, a responsibility to to the residents and businesses that fund the county and the schools. I’m not suggesting the BOCS get down in the weeds of operations but I do believe some budget oversight would be a good thing. Similarly, in terms of cost cutting in lean times, I believe that the maintenance of separate planning offices and staff is an enormous waste of money and manpower, and a system that is kept in place largely because of a measure of antipathy between the two boards, expensive antipathy that doesn’t serve the taxpayers or the students.
@Moon-howler
MH, a meeting just on trailers would
1. Give the School Board to address just this one topic which is good, because it has been a matter of contention with parents for a long time now.
2. Give the School Board a forum for discussing the history of trailer usage and why we have come to rely on them as if they are “normal.”
3. Give parents the chance to voice their concerns because there ARE concerns (such as travel between trailer and the “Mother Ship”).
4. Give everyone the chance to understand how much money and what resources are necessary to ensure our kids don’t end up in trailers.
5. Create a permanent record of this discussion through audio archive, web streaming, television etc.
@Posting As Pinko
That was just bad all around. Here are some corrections:
1. Give the School Board THE OPPORTUNITY to address just this one topic which is good, because it has been a matter of contention with parents for a long time now.
2. Give the School Board a forum for discussing the history of trailer usage and why we have come to rely on them as if they are “normal.” THAT IS, TRAILERS ARE ACCEPTED AS NORMAL, NOT SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS.
3. Give parents the chance to voice their concerns because there ARE concerns (such as travel between trailer and the “Mother Ship” LIKE BATHROOM BREAKS AND KIDS GOING TO SPECIAL ED CLASSES).
@Moon-howler
Corey Stewart wants to eliminate the School Board and let the BOCS run the schools.
I would literally leave the county if that happened. We have good schools, and that is an incentive for me (and many others) to live here.
Trailers are nothing new. I was in one for 2 consecutive years 30+ years ago in Fauquier county. PB Smith Elementary class of ’83.
Mom, could they legally join forces, if personalities were different? I am not so sure they could since the citizens elect both to do different jobs.
I don’t think legally the bocs has the right of oversight once the funding has been approved. That is one reason many people opposed elected school boards for so long in VA. The school board was elected to provide that oversight.
It is a strange set up, I will grant you.
Excellent points Mom. The reality is that we take proffer sites for schools anywhere, not necessarily where the schools should be built, either due to need or environmental impacts.
It’s interesting, if you look at the website that shows schools that are under, at, or over capacity, there are many that are under. On some level, it seems as the though the school board does not want to get into the messy work of boundary changes so they just add trailers.
Pinko, what you are suggesting would best be done at the individual school where trailers were being placed.
Now I am going to agree with Mando, they aren’t a new thing. They even pre-date Mando. 😉
There is only 1 reason to have trailersL Not enough classrooms. What’s to talk about other than how to implement their use.
I think that the school board and the county need to talk to each other as far as development goes. If 600 houses are going in, how many schools are needed to handle the offspring of those 600 houses?
“I don’t think legally the bocs has the right of oversight once the funding has been approved”
Exactly, the BOCS only gets one shot at the ring and that is before the budget is approved. Just because they have an “agreement” doesn’t mean they have to abide by it or extend it in perpetuity, particularly if they believe the funds are being wasted or misspent. Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t believe the “agreement” is legally binding and budget oversight is common elsewhere in the Commonwealth.
Pinko, I can see why you think Corey wants to run the school system. I don’t think he really does. I think it is that mike problem. He gets on in front of him and the mouth starts moving. He can’t resist meddling, or commenting. Sometimes this is a good thing, other times, not so good.
@Moon-howler
So you don’t think he was serious when he suggested that?
Incidentally “when I was a kid” we never had trailers. Is that a VA thing? Or did I just have a weirdo experience? I don’t remember my friends in other schools having trailers either.
Pinko, you probably came from a community where there was very little growth. Prince William has been on a growth roll for the past fifty years…or close to it.
I don’t know if Corey was serious or not. I can’t remember what he said. Do you have a quote?
The one exception I can think of on the trailers is the fleet at Yorkshire School. A new school was being built. I don’t know why it wasn’t rebuilt 10 years before that when all those renovations were done. It seems like a waste of money to me.
On a related “stupidity” note, I see where three homes are burning off of Spriggs Road. This wouldn’t have happened if the County didn’t approve that Developer’s Favorite, “Small Lot Singles” or homes built so close together that a neighbor can pass an egg from her kitchen to yours without breaking.
“Is that a VA thing?”
It’s a growth thing.
Two or three trailers is a growth thing, thirty-five additional trailers is a poor-planning thing.
@Moon-howler
I guess I really did grow up in a Yahoo town. 🙂
I was also in a trailer at times where I went to school in NJ 30 or more years ago. Seems like school overcrowding is nothing new.
Mom, whatever happened to the requirement that houses outside of ‘town’ had to be built on acre lots?
With the approved development in this county, it has been impossible for the school system to keep up with the growth. This isn’t a new thing. It dates back to the 60’s. (maybe before then even)
The MJM said it all today: 200,000 new people added to PWC since 1990 and 120,000 of those were added in the last 10 years. I think the school population has almost doubled the last 20 years which means they’d have to build 3 schools every year just to keep up. That must add up to trailers upon trailers upon trailers. The housing crisis may have a silver lining in that at least we weren’t building homes as fast as we had been since 2000.
It would be good for the school offices to hold a meeting to address the concerns of those who feel like their kids have been trailerized since kindergarten and all the points that Pinko mentioned.
I suggest you call the superintendent’s office and request that happen. I have no problem with them holding yet another meeting. I have a problem with Gary Friedman telling the school board what to do. It isn’t in his purview.
I wouldn’t chalk it up all to poor planning. Trailers make sense in tough times.
Call me crazy, but shouldn’t people research school systems before they move into those new mega-ginormous “planned” communities? Can’t be too hard on the board without looking in the mirror first. Pot and kettle?
Mando, there is something to be said for checking into those things. I don’t think it was all poor planning either. There are some things that simply cannot be planned. Some can, some can’t.
I finally found the student population numbers on the school website. 55,000 in 2000 and 74,000 in 2008. Yikes, that is 3000 new kids every year. To keep up with that, you would have to build 2 elementary schools, half a middle school and half of a high school every single year. Assuming they alternate between building a whole high school and a whole middle school every year, it is still 3 schools every single year. I think the new high school was supposedly a “deal” at $80 million. So that would be over $120 million every year to build enough schools to keep up with that growth rate. I cannot imagine what that would do to tax rates. I think we build 1-2 schools per year currently so they are really behind. Will we ever catch up or do we have to wait until the population stops growing like it did in Fairfax?
Thanks for those stats, anona. All the planning in the world isn’t going to get around those numbers. I bet I dont know where half the schools are in the county now. I used to know where all were.
There is an old adage that an organization can never be independent if its budget is controlled by another entity. The BOCS can always come up with a reason to get involved for the sake of budget oversight.
Perhaps the state law needs to change. Regardless, all the funds come out of our pockets, whether local, state, or federal.
The school board is elected now. Virginians have a difficult time adjusting on that one. Virginia charges those elected with the oversight. If they screw up, elect someone else.
How would it work if each body had to procure their own funds? The school tax and then the other tax would always be competing.
I can’t complain about trailers. Growing up in parochial schools I sat in some pretty outdated factilities. What counted was who was at the front and how much control there was in the classroom. I don’t think the facility matters that much. Anymore than your background.
Along with the transfer of funds, the BOCS should conduct audits. That would be appropriate. They don’t need to control, but they should audit.
Why can’t the school board conduct their own audits, which they do?
Why is there this atmosphere of distrust? Back when school boards were appointed, it seems that there was more trust. Could it be the good old boy network just suited everyone better?