When the tea party first rose its head a couple of summers ago, we were told they were all about ‘getting our fiscal house in order.’ Many proposed draconian, drastic cuts, others trooped around in three cornered hats and did the fife and drums thing. What was not said was that they were also the social conservatives, the radical Republicans.
We can see now that the social conservatives finally got their nose under the tent and House Speaker John Boehner has been put on notice–do what we say or lose your job. Boehner is a smart enough politician to know that there are just some issues you don’t tack on as a rider to a budget. Obviously he had no choice.
Perhaps we will all survive. But we look absurd to everyone else in the world. We have debt problems but we protect the very wealthy. Some knuckle heads continue to think, even after 25 years of it not paying off, that protecting the very wealthy will produce jobs. Where are those jobs?
We are involved in three wars, and we almost shut the government down over abortion? And not even the right to abortion–it was imaginary abortion. The radicals wanted to kill off Planned Parenthood. Now Planned Parenthood is universally known as the place where people who don’t want to get pregnant go. Patients can get relatively inexpensive birth control and required health services. Planned Parenthood also takes medicaid patients, unlike so many other medical facilities. What idiots want to shut down places to get contraception in order to fight abortion? Now where is the logic?
Most Americans don’t see abortion or Planned Parenthood as big threats to our country. What they do see as threatening are rising food costs, foreclosures, joblessness, job insecurity, overcrowded classrooms, expensive health care costs and crime. They don’t give a fig about abortion or the fact that some penny of their tax money might find its way into co-mingling money used for abortion.
The culture warriors need to be driven out. We need to get on with running the country. We need to tell these clowns that they are making us the laughing stock. We need to make sure the tail isn’t wagging the dog.
The Team Party needs to understand something, and that’s that they do not represent a majority of Americans. Not everybody shares their views. That fact was demonstrated tonight with this budget deal.
Starry, I totally agree with you. This group of Radical Republican Culture Warriors has me feeling sorry for John Boehner. Almost. They do not represent most Americans.
And obviously it wasn’t about fiscal responsibility if cutting off contraception (pretending that imaginery abortion takes place) is a solution to abortion.
Knuckle heads. Idiots. The culture warriors need to be driven out. Clowns. Laughing stock.
“A Place for Civil Debate: not your typical ideologue blog.” Hmmmm. O.K. Let me try one under the new rules.
Those a**hole liberal Dems never, ever saw a budget cut they liked. That bunch of dimwitted, asinine turkeys will continue to borrow and spend and borrow and spend until this country is driven over a fiscal cliff, and then they will try to cover their sorry asses by blaming someone else. The only reason we are seeing any spending cuts at all is because of the pressure put on the politicos of both parties by the Tea Party. Left to their own devices, most of those pandering jerks couldn’t balance their own checkbooks, much less make an effort to balance the national checkbook. “Jobs, jobs, jobs!” they cry; but not a one of them can get his head out of that place where the sun don’t shine long enough to figure out how we can meaningfully create jobs. Soak the rich! Sounds like a bunch of teenagers who, having spent a month’s allowance in a week and not wanting to reform their own bad habits, think the best way to go is to put the touch on old Dad for a fresh cash infusion. Gotta have everything, they do. And everything becomes an instant entitlement. Absolutely untouchable! Can’t take this away or that away or we will classify you as a cruel and and uncaring rightwing extremist who belongs in a liberal re-education camp. We are entitled because we were born, damn it!! We are Americans and we demand our free lunch. It’s our darn tootin’ constitutional right to have everything we want on somebody else’s dime and to have it now, not later. So what if we are all dead broke and candidates for a Chinese debtors prison? It don’t bother me as long as I’ve got mine. Screw economics!
And, now, back to our regular programming….
@Wolverine
In 2000-2008 Who was the president? Who had veto power? How many times did that president excercise veto powers on a budget? What kind of leadership did he show? What kind of financial shape was the country in when Bill Clinton left office? Was it squandered?
Now, having said that….I stand by my feelings about closing down the government over imaginary abortions that aren’t being paid for with tax payer dollars and shutting off funding for PBS. PBS goes hand in hand with museums and national parks. It is part of our history and culture.
Yes, laughing stocks. Many people feel demonizing Planned Parenthood and PBS is totally absurd. International publications around the world are snickering. I expect very repressive theocracises aren’t. As for EPA regs, I suppose that there are still people who believe the moon landing was a hoax by NBC and have an earth-centric vision of the solar system. These aren’t the people I want setting policy for my country. That kind of thinking is a long way from the thinking of the fouunding fathers who were part of the intellectual enlightenment.
Its very difficult to even tempered when I inundated with a sea of absurdity on my TV all week. I believe in listening to other people up to a point. Then when people want to take away my favorite tV station and then want to shut down MY government over something that doesn’t exist…and then cut off contraception to stop abortion then I am going to say a little more than Gee Wilkikers. Knucklehead was kind.
As for what Wolverine wants to call the Democrats, I could care less. And trust me, I was past the point of debate and I wasn’t that uncivil.
http://www.vanityfair.com/society/features/2011/05/top-one-percent-201105
“Great wealth begats power, which begats more wealth”.
Follow the money.
Yep, it all starts with the ignorance of the left.
I wonder if Wolverine has any strong feelings about all of this. Perhaps time for some anger management????? What really bother me is that Wolfy doesn’t offer up any ideas–just bitches and bitches.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_52/b3914021_mz007.htm
And almost seven years later?
I am waiting…who thinks we cut down on the number of abortions by limiting contraception?
Have I missed something in birds and bees class?
I hear a lot of push back on my choice of words like knucklehead and idiots but …no one answered the question. No one denied that they weren’t a Radical Republican Culture Warrior.
I am all for people who want to take a look at fixing the debt in the country. I want to be able to tell China to take a hike when we want to. When I was coming along they were called the RED Chinese. Let’s look at money and keep the private social bugabooes out of things.
You couldn’t pay me enough to feel sorry for that douche. He is a hired hand to do the bidding of the extreme reich…I mean right. Let him twist in the wind.
M-h, I’m waiting for these social conservatives who oppose birth control, Planned Parenthood, abortion, etc. to expound on their reproductive theories. Barefoot and pregnant? Abstinence? Wife as subservient baby machine? Where are their answers? I’ll bet it doesn’t lie with vasectomies.
Why were women’s services targetted? There was never any doubt in my mind that the Teabaggers were social reactionaries (note that I didn’t say “conservative” because I don’t believe that they are true conservatives). Look at the demographics – white, white, white, male, and older!( Their appearance seemed to coincide with the threat of an Obama or H. Clinton presidency.) I don’t care for their lack of decorum – disrupting town hall meetings, shouting “You Lie” at the Prez, general thuggery and a social agenda hidden by a mantra of fiscal responsibility. Most women don’t care to get involved in angry public disputes. If the debate operates in that manner, women’s concerns won’t be heard as equally. Hmmmm. ( I don’t consider Bachman’s and Palin’s soundbites reasoned debate – just angry one-liners delivered to put bucks in their pockets – a valid objective for them financially just not solutions to political problems for the country as a whole.)
Big Dog, that’s an interesting article. The old Voodoo economics, trickle-down economics, horse and sparrow theory has been around a long time. Just as the poor kid on the ballfield or basketball court hopes he/she makes it as a millionaire pro, the adherents of the horse and sparrow theory hope they’ll get to be the horse that gets to gorge on the oats. But more than likely they’ll be competing with the rest of the sparrows on the road while hoping if the horse keeps gorging, they’ll find an oat as well.
Five minutes after a deal is agreed to, and the liberal attacks begin. Now we know why it will never end.
Discontent with Congress has thrived through three presidencies now. What does that say about our nation?
It’s not about Dem or Reps. It’s about a-hole politicians and greed.
@Bubba, the operative word there is “almost.”
The whole thing is depressing.
But I am the bad one because I have the audacity to call it as I see it. Actually, I have been holding back.
@Slowpoke, it will never end as long as simpletons try to shut down a government over imaginary abortion and killing off PBS. In the past month, many things I value have been under tremendous attack by people who call themselves tea party people. Education, contraception and PBS.
I didn’t START attacking 5 minutes after it was over. I have BEEN attacking.
And let me not remind you of the warning I gave….to those of you who started bitching and crying and whining about Obama 2 seconds after he was inauguarated (before actually)…you all had better come in with some good solid answers that everyone agreed to. Instant solutions will be demanded…just like you all have done since Jan. 2009. Maybe you don’t see that you did that. Or perhaps you excused it because it was you all doing it …some sort of entitlement.
I haven’t seen that. I have seen attacks on PBS (state and federal) and those trying to shut down Planned Parenthood funding, even though none of it goes to abortion.
I wonder what would happen if any, no matter how small, gun control measure was put into place. OMG, you would see the militias marching in the streets, but go after health care services for low income women and even sane people like slowpoke can’t agree that is crazy? Give me a break, the republicans haven’t spoken ONE EFFING word about the cost of Iraq and its burden on the deficit. Not ONE EFFING word on going to war and NO SHARED sacrafice to pay for it! HUH!!! The hypocricy is astounding , just astounding.
WHY are we in this mess, because of an 800 billion dollar stimulus package under Obama? No, and anyone who suggests that is proving their igonorance. We are in this mess because we have a 2 wars that have not been paid for and health care premiums that are unsustainable. Defense and entitlements are the biggest drivers of the deficit. How do the republicans intend to fix the problem, well, just get rid of entitlements and let the middle and lower income populace fend for themselves, especially those old unproductive old people, let them figure it out.
If people cannot afford health insurance now, what makes these fools believe the future be any different. I say fools because they don’t struggle between medical treatment or food, they are set, but for millions of others, who don’t have that luxury not to worry, well, screw them.
@Elena, I would have gladly bought some war bonds. That would have kept the cost of the war ‘in-house.’
The pure illogic of defunding the one place that is well known for inexpensive well woman visits that provides inexpensive birth control IS idiocy in my opinion. For those so blinded by their abhorance of abortion, they forgot one important factor, pregnancy prevention stops abortion!
@Wolverine
Stop whining. If you really were serious about reducing deficits, you would be discussing increasing taxes, not decreasing them. And you would cut defense spending. If you take in less money than you spend, you will have a deficit. That is simple 1st grade math. This is not rocket science.
O.M.G.
Here we go. Its the war! Attacking women. Poor people. No solutions. Immediate solutions.
So, if its the war, how do you explain 1.2 TRILLION in deficits as soon as Obama took office when Bush left office with a 285 billion dollar deficit that was shrinking. And I don’t see any war bonds being offered for this NEW, UNAUTHORIZED war.
Attacking women. Because they are white men, its all about attacking women. It can’t be because they truly believe that abortion kills babies and that they want to make it rare. Because they want to defund an organization that, bluntly, kills babies. Oh,no! The conservatives hate women and don’t care about the LIVING babies. Its THEIR responsibility now to save them all because they want abortion stopped. What a load of sanctimonious crap! Oh no, its more expensive to the country if the babies are born to poor people, so lets abort them! That’s how some are coming across here, just because the GOP wants to defund Planned Parenthood, that uses its funding to donate money to the Democrats. That’s right, Planned Parenthood is a major funding source. 41% of the babies in New York were aborted, 60% of those were black. So much for “rare.”
You guys WON your little battle over Planned Parenthood. The conservatives caved. So, now that the world is safe for publicly funded abortions, and yes, they are because money is fungible, what do you people want to give up so that we can cut money somewhere else. The Democrats failed UTTERLY in the sworn duty to provide a budget. They have failed utterly to safeguard our finances. We are spending 100 billion PER MONTH.
We are not in this mess because of the ONE war with two theaters, I have the medals to back that up, that are not paid for. They are being paid for just like everything else. We are not in this mess because of ONE STIMULUS PACKAGE. We are in this mess because we have tripled the deficit since the first year in office. HCR is a turing out to be an expensive, colossal failure that the CBO has said will NOT save money, that the admin lied about the costs, and that everybody that is politically connected is getting a waiver. The current deficits is NOT related to government healthcare costs except as part of medicaid/medicare.
If the Democrats can’t stomach 60 billion in cuts and complain about the 38 billion that we did get, how in the hell are we going to cut spending?
What are you willing to sacrifice, since that’s all I hear about Bush not asking us to sacrifice? Yeah, I don’t see Obama doing that either, in fact, he’s on ANOTHER vacation. He takes more vacations that Reagan took naps.
I know that people here are pro-choice. Fine. This isn’t about repealing Roe vs Wade. This is about funding things that don’t need to be funded by the federal government. But, what about contraception? What about it? Go get some. It cheap. Or don’t have sexual intercourse. If you have sex, you might have children. Every time you have sex, you might have children. Technically, you are agreeing to that when you have sex. When people start thinking like that again, maybe we won’t have so many problems associated with sex.
“That’s not realistic!” Well, it worked for thousands of years. It works now. Personal responsibility. But, again, instead of getting into THAT fight, AGAIN, this is about public funding.
What part of “We don’t have any money and we need to set priorities.” don’t you understand?
@Cargosquid
We were in the middle of the Great Recession. Yes, Obama spent money. Bush spent money. They spent it to keep us from going to full Depression and I support it. The people I have talked to know a great deal more about macro-economics than I do so I will just defer to those people I consider knowledgeable.
Please don’t use that old fungible smoke and mirrors trick here. It just doesn’t wash and there are no taxpayer funded abortions because of the Hyde amendment. You might say the same thing about any medicaid reembursement regardless of the clinic. It doesn’t play.
I actually don’t consider it winning. I consider it driving the enemy off a territory that they tried to invade. I will ask again….what idiot thinks they are reducing abortion by making sure contraception is not readily available?
This is turning into invasion of the soul snatchers. Cargo, you are an intelligent guy. You know where babies come from. You have surely read the rules for Title X funding. No abortions. The Hyde Amendment backs that up. The Planned Parenthood is simply a red herring. I suspect it is the people who feel any birth control is wrong pushing this.
Griswold v Connecticut guarantees right to contraception. Actually contraception isn’t cheap. A month supply of Birth control pills can cost $20 to $50 a month. I don’t consider that cheap. The ‘don’t have sex ‘ just sounds prudish. Now, back to the real world.
Cargo, the more I read, the more steam I have coming out of my ears. Once again, here is a man telling women not to have sex. Ever visited an old grave yard? Every noticed how many young women of child bearing age are in those graves? Child birth killed them. So you are going to tell me not having sex worked for 1000s of years? Where did it work and how come the history books make no mention of it?
What part of “you don’t get to decide this” do YOU not understand? And you really are a cultural warrior and have been hiding it if you truly believe the crap you just spelled out.
Furthermore, $300 million is a drop in the bucket. How about knocking out a few fancy weapons. There are all sorts of places to cut spending that don’t involve fulfilling the Radical Republican piss off slice and dice to Planned Parenthood.
The social issues have no place in the budget cutting and it doesn’t fool anyone. Let’s talk about real things that don’t have the RR drawn ‘mark of Satan’ on them.
@Moon-howler
I agree. There are a lot of places to cut spending. And I’ve mentioned mine. Time for the left to give up some of theirs.
And yes. I’m telling PEOPLE not to have sex. MEN too. Promiscuity is not a good thing. Will it ever be ideal? NO. But, 87,000 + abortions in New York last year alone says a lot. 41% of ALL pregnancies were terminated.
And as for those graves…it wasn’t CHILD BIRTH. It was infection. It was the lack of medical care. I do understand your position. You are worried about women’s health. You want cheap stuff for women.
Guess what? I’d like it too. But, WE HAVE NO MORE MONEY. So, why is Planned Parenthood a bigger priority over, say….more mental health care funding, or widgets that will save lives on the battlefield, or whatever….
Are the Republicans playing politics? Yes. Those gotcha bits are how you force the other side to make priorities. They want to save NPR and Planned Parenthood…ok….then what is THEIR alternative?
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/02/planned-parenthood-poised-to-fight.html
Also, cutting PP was an attempt to derail some Democrat election funds.
Why can anyone that gets federal funds be allowed to donate to elections and lobbying?
Conflict of interest, anyone?
@Cargo, just like derailing the unions is a way to break up Democratic support.
They get those federal funds regardless of who is president. Title X has been in existence since 1970.
I don’t know how much lobby money Planned Parenthood gives. It would have to be through their PAC.
No, not a conflict of interest. How about them oil companies??? Want to start talking conflict of interest?
I am not lobbying to save NPR. Not my sword to fall on. PBS is. I am still trying to figure out why the Radical Right hates PBS. Do they think Bert and Ernie are gay?
It isn’t up to you or me to tell people who can and cannot have sex. We might suggest but that’s as far as it goes and even that is treading on thin ice. This is just an unrealistic conversation to be having.
I don’t think that 41% of the pregnancies in NY ended in abortion and I would challenge those stats. That is a very skewed number, especially when the incidence of abortion has been decreasing the past several years.
NY has always had liberal abortion laws. If they are seeing those kinds of numbers I expect it is because it is an abortion hub of sorts. And finally, that has nothing to do with Planned Parenthood. Nothing at all. It is a whole other issue.
The way to reduce abortion is to reduce inintended pregnancy. One way to reduce unintended pregnancy is to have safe, reliable contraceptive available to all sexually active people. The other ways are very complex and basically irrelevant to this conversation.
re graves– ummm….The deaths were caused by many factors related to child birth. If they had an infection following childbirth, are you trying to tell me that it was unrelated to child birth? It was a woman killer. Women had too many children in too short of a time span. No antibiotics, primitive delivery methods if one ran in to trouble.
Women were caught between a rock and a hard place. They didn’t have voting rights and often property rights. Why did 16 year olds marry 70 year old goats? Economic seciurity. It sure wasn’t love or sexual attraction. Women from more affluent families often postponed marriage to make sure they didn’t lead a life of serial pregnancies.
When I say women died in childbirth, please extend that to mean complications from childbirth. I naturally assumed that was understood.
Cargo, when I graduated from college, the job market wasn’t open to me. Why? Companies didn’t want to train women. It was too costly. They just got married, left, and had babies. At least that is what we were told. You know women weren’t even allowed to work in the freaking ABC store. Women will never have equality unless they can control their own reproduction. That’s just the bottom line.
@Cargo, that opensecrets.org was a good link. Good for PP and other pro-choice groups. That’s what it takes, I am sad to say. I contribute to these organizations’ PACs, without apology. It is important to many of us that abortion issues be solved by those that are personally affected, rather than the government or someone else’s church group.
Does that mean I am libertarian?
Moon, see you on the jousting field when Rep. Paul Ryan and the House Budget Committee submit their detailed proposals for dealing with those potential killers of a budget deficit and national debt. Throw in many of the ideas from that bipartisan commission, and we will have a right jolly donnybrook. Meanwhile, if our friend George H. wants to flap his jaws about personal debt reduction ideas on a blog and essentially into thin air, he can be my guest. I myself will wait until our hired hands on the Hill and at 1600 Pennsylvania serve up some menu choices as we pay them the big bucks to do. Then we can talk about those choices and possible alternatives. Until that time, anything else is wasted effort — unless you can show me that those hired hands live and die by what is written on this blog.
This is my answer to George H. Starryflights merits no answer, except to say that, in a effort to give the steaming and firebreathing blogmeister a little tweak about the solemn promises on the banner of this blog, I went totally out of blog character and did my best to imitate to some degree the frequent invective of none other than Starryflights himself. But, alas, the poor fellow didn’t even recognize himself.
@Wolverine, how many years have we been hearing about the debt? I almost feel like its one of those god like characters standing on corner, in cartoons, holding an ‘end of the world ‘ sign. The ‘reduce spending’ mantra is just that–a mantra. Can we spend more sensibly? Yes. There is plenty of waste everywhere. However, as a mantra, it just becomes silly. The bottom line is we need to not only decrease spending but also increase revenues. No more free ride for the very wealthy.
And while we are socking it to the very wealthy, I want to see everyone responsible for some income tax. I don’t care if it is only five dollars a year. If you live in this country, then you contribute something, even if only a dollar. The fact that nearly 50% of the people in this country pay no federal tax is absurd. And that goes for GE and its tax loop holes. Great for the investor. Bad for the nation.
america spends 20 mil for sesame street in pakistan
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/07/sesame-street-pakistan
“Reagan proved deficits do not matter” – Dick Cheney.
why have we not fixed our tax system – that could fix our deficit – GE is going to pay no taxes for 2010 with a $3 billion profit. I have to suffer with AMT, but not someone making $1 Million. Warren Buffet pays less of a percentage in taxes than his assistant – why is that? Is it to keep the have nots, the have-nots – take a way their birth control, keep them pregnant, take away abortion access (the wealthy will always have access), and keep them down there.. Nobody was worried about future costs or deficits when taxes were reduced in 2003, two wars were started, Part D was enacted with no funding, but now, it is all Obama’s fault – and the R’s want me to believe that they are the fiscally responsible party- HA!. Meanwhile the government is going to go into shutdown mode, so that the parties can try and push their ideological differences.
. Yeah, I am on a rant today, I guess.
@e
It might be cheaper to educate Pakistani children using Sesame Street than having to go to war. That country is not to be ignored as a sight of future violence and blood shed.
O.K. The Obama Administration is going to submit its own budget cutting plan next week — “At last…” as The Atlantic put it. This means that the major players are engaged and hopefully committed to the same general endgame. The devil will be in the details, and there will be a battle royale over some of those details, especially health care reconfiguration and tax levels. But, everybody seems to be on the race track and pointed in the same general direction. That is a start at least.
Pat — I agree with your “rant” in #6 about the loopholes in the tax system, especially that bit about GE getting a free ride. Paul Ryan’s proposal is still only a statement of intent and general direction, but I believe those inanities in the tax system are part of the targeting in that proposal. Furthermore, I am beginning to suspect that this may be one issue where we might see some quick agreement by all parties. At least, I hope so.
@Moon-howler
Sure. I don’t want them to get federal money either.
We can’t afford subsidies any longer.
Then cut off all foreign aid to other countries and leave PBS alone. We aren’t a third world country and we can afford PBS.
It is a target of the Radical Right. It stays.
Then give up your social security, medicare, and veterans benefits
I would be happy to give up my social security and medicare, if they give me my money back…oh. wait. They can’t. They already spent it. Fine. Let me keep the money going to SS and Medicare and I will supply my own retirement and medical needs.
As for the veteran benefits, no. Those are part of a employment contract. I bled for those. Albeit, not much, but it was my blood…so its important to me.
What the government does for future enlistees is their concern. The government is CONSTANTLY changing those terms.
HOw about you starry? Have you donated your savings to the government to help bring down the debt? I mean, raising taxes is such a good idea……especially in a recession.