Elena speaks with Channel 7 News:
According to insidenova.com, the county has filed suit against the federal government.
Prince William County filed a lawsuit today against the Department of Homeland Security, according to a county press release.
In 2007 the Prince William Board of County Supervisors passed an ordinance that requires county police officers to check the immigration status of anyone they arrest.
If police find that they have arrested someone who is in the country illegally, they turn that person over to the department for deportation.
To date the county has turned over more that [sic] 4,000 people over to DHS, the release stated.
At issue is the fact that an illegal immigrant who was an habitual offender hit a car carrying 3 elderly nuns. One nun was killed and the other 2 were seriously injured. The sisters belong to the Benedictine order and requested at the time of the tragedy that people not use the death of the sister to advance their political viewpoint. The politicians and anti-immigration crowd of Prince William County have ignored the sisters’ request and have done quite the opposite.
Carlos Martinelly Montanowas charged in Aug. 2010 for the death of the Benedictine nun. Corey Stewart, Prince William County Chairman of the Board of Supervisors, has appeared on national TV over and over again emphasising that Montano is an illegal alien who should have been deported. Stewart’s efforts to find out information why he wasn’t deported have gone unanswered which has given rise to this lawsuit.
Police records show that Montano was previously convicted of drunken driving, identified as an illegal immigrant, handed over to DHS for deportation, subsequently released and was then given an employment authorization card, according to the release.
When county officials discovered Montano’s record and learned that the department had failed to deport him, they became concerned that other criminal illegal immigrants may also have been released.
Stewart has failed to accept that once a prisoner is turned over to I.C.E., the matter is no longer a Prince William County issue. He apparently doesn’t understand that DHS is under no obligation to deport an offender. Everyone in this area who is deported has to have a deportation hearing before a federal judge. (Cases at the border are treated differently.) Many I.C.E detainees are not deported.
Prince William County is but one locality out of thousands in the United States. I.C.E. has limited personnel to go around. They cannot respond to every inquiry at the local level nor should they be expected to do so. The question becomes, what is PWC going to do with the information? The matter is out of their hands. What does the lawsuit request? How much will the good people of Prince William have to pay for this venture? Why do I think Corey is simply using this lawsuit as an election ploy at our expense?
“They cannot respond to every inquiry at the local level nor should they be expected to do so.”
Except that’s the law under the Freedom of Information Act. They have to respond.
And I’d like an answer why they did not deport a criminal. He wasn’t some “innocent” that just mows lawns…he’s one of those criminals that you say ICE has to concentrate on.
The federal government serves us, we do not serve them. PWC, regardless of who asks, deserves an answer.
Cargo,
What world are you living in? On one hand you want to get rid of most of government responsibility so we don’t have to send them tax dollars, but on the other hand you want to them detain and jail everyone person who commits a midedemeanor? This was a tragic accident, one that is about drunk driving, not immigration.
Make up you mind Cargo, less government or more government, you can’t have both!
Smaller more effective government.
A government that follows its own laws.
It’s not like we’re asking a lot.
@Cargosquid
No one has said not to deport him here. He wasn’t deported. He was brought here as a child. That might have something to do with it. Who knows. It might just be a paper work thing.
Do you think the fact that he was an illegal immigrant or the fact that he was an habitual offender is what killed the sister?
Not all information must be answered when a FOIA request has been submitted.
The following FCC records are not accessible through FOIA:
1. National defense and foreign policy materials.
2. Internal rules and practices of an agency.
3. Any information specifically exempted by another statute.
4. Confidential business information.
5. Inter or intra-agency memoranda which would not be available to a party in litigation with the agency.
6. Disclosure of files (like medical files) which may result in unwarranted invasion of privacy.
7. Information compiled for law enforcement purposes.
8. Records related to financial institutions.
9. Information related to oil wells.
This act applies only to federal agencies. The federal courts and the Congress are not subject to the FOIA.
The county does not tell the Federal govt who to deport. So what does the county need the information for? What are they going to do with that information?
Why are we paying (and suing is never free) to sue the federal govt when there is nothing we can do with information.
I do think DHS answered a while ago and said it was a privacy issue but I can’t swear to that.
@Elena
As Marinm said, a gov’t that follows its own laws. One that actually does what its supposed to.
So he was brought here as a child. Why is he still here? If he is a habitual offender, and ICE had him, hold the hearing and deport him.
Why is this such a hard thing to understand? If he is here illegally, he is supposed to be sent to his country of origin.
Is there a law that says a judge must deport any illegal immigrant? I don’t think so.
He is still here because he hasn’t been deported. Cargo, you have been talking about the govt having to prioritize. Do you think it is more important to deport a drunk driver or a serious gang member killer? Not everyone can be deported. We lack the resources.
Martinelly’s family had been here for years and they are all still here. They had been give a green card so they did not realize they were not legal residents.
Do you realize that there are limitations as to how much one person can do in a day? There are not all that many federal judges to preside over deportation hearings. Magic wand time. In the grand scheme of things, a drunk driver is undesirable but….not up there with robbers, killers and rapists.
We either cut spending or we don’t cut spending.
I cannot believe that there is an argument here about deporting an illegal immigrant who is a habitual drunk driver and thereby places the lives of everyone else in jeopardy. As far as I am concerned there ought to be two outcomes; (1) habitual drunk driver who is a citizen or legal resident: long jail time and forced drying out before release; (2) habitual drunk driver who is an illegal immigrant: deport ASAP; and, if he ever comes back, that long jail sentence followed by another deportation. This isn’t some petty crime we are talking about here. These are members of your own families out on the road with these people as potential victims.
There is no argument about whether to deport him or not. We are talking about the reality of deportation.
Counties cannot decide who gets deported and who doesn’t. I merely related FACTS about the story.
Would you feel differently if Martinelly was here legally? I think the point is habitual offender.
I cannot remember if Martinelly served time for the originally drunk driving charge or not before he was turned over to I.C.E. Once an illegal immigrant is turned over to I.C.E. the county is no longer involved.
Which of the facts do you disagree with? Have I mis-stated a fact? I have offered no opinion about deporting him. I want to know why we are suing since we have no control of what goes on. Since I am helping pay for the lawsuit, I would sort of like to know.
The reality is simple: ICE raises this type of offender higher on the list for faster and surer deportation. And, as I said in the last post: legal or illegal, you get these potential killers on wheels off our roads. Whatever the status, we have allowed the justice system in this country to screw around with this far too long.
Sorry, wrong again! Y’all GOTTA get tired of being wrong. The issue is this is one of the two or three jobs that actually IS constitutionally-mandated; namely, protection of our borders. What we want is for the government to do its job and do it right. The problem is the government is too busy doing everything that is NOT its job to ever actually do its job effectively.
“The politicians and anti-immigration crowd……….” With all due respect why is it that some constantly misrepresent the intent of PWC? It’s anti ILLEGAL-immigrant, and you know it, yet promote the falsehood that we are against those who have gone through the legal process of becoming US citizens! That in itself is purely political, and you aren’t even a politician.
Is the lawsuit another way in which our tax dollars are being spent to give Corey Stewart a soapbox from which to spout about immigration? Is the timing coincidental? The Obama Admin. is looking closely at Alabama’s immigration laws. Corey S. claims to have produced the granddaddy of of these new immigration laws so he’s got to protect his creation. What does he expect to get from this lawsuit?
Anyone who thinks that deportation is a instant answer hasn’t looked at the reality of frequently deported people return. As more states try to adopt PWC’s 287-g program, ICE and the immigration courts will become more overwhelmed and less efficient and there will be fewer resources for PWC. Duh.
I go with whatever the Sisters have said, and the way they live their lives in Prince William.
@Wolverine
Then you want to kick this dude head to the front of the line because he is arrested for drunk driving? Remember, when they had him, he had not killed anyone with his car.
And no, the reality of what happens is not simple. If you have x federal judges and y illegal immigrants, there are only so many people who can be processed. We have to follow the law and we aren’t clairvoyant. What is simple about this case?
Do we hire lots more federal judges? Who pays for it?
What does the county want? Information? The reality of all of this is, not everyone turned over to I.C.E. from PW is going to be deported. The numbers are not on our side.
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
Deporting everyone in the United States sure is going to blow a hole in your ‘stop spending’ mandate. I think maybe the ‘stop spending’ mandate is just on the things you don’t think are important. You are telling us that you don’t care what it costs to deport drunk drivers who are illegal immigrants? I don’t think you can dot all the i’s and cross all the t’s on this one.
Please tell me where I am ‘wrong’ in the original post. Did I misstate facts? Do you know what the law suit is over exactly? I assumed PWC wants information on all those it turns over to ICE. Do you have different information? What would it cost to provide all that information back to state and local govt and who will pay for it? What will state and local govt do with this information should they get it?
@Second Alamo
Too much typing. You knew what I meant. Its actually pretty hard to make a distinction on what you are griping about after reading a couple of blogs that deal with this issue. I see very little distinction made on the blogs so frankly, I gave up even trying several years ago. Get over it.
I’ll bet some felons picked up by ICE are involved in testifying in drug smuggling, murder, identity theft, etc. cases and the Feds at this point don’t want too much info released that might screw up their ability to prosecute those cases. What’s Master Corey planning to do? Dictate which people are going to be deported and which may stay? I don’t think that’s within his grasp. I believe Corey’s ilk will prod the Obama Admin. to push further for immigration reform. We can’t have every little hotshot in this country with a political agenda setting US immigration policy. These pols waste both local and federal tax dollars pursuing their own agendas. None of this is free. (It reminds me of Cuccinnelli poking the feds in the eye while Virginia is one of the US government’s largest welfare recipients.)
@moon.
We all know you don’t HAVE to deport them all. Take away the incentive to come and stay, and they’ll deport themselves. On an interesting side note, that is already happening. The current administration has destroyed the economy to such an extent that Mexicans are actually going home because their unemployment rate is less than 5%. I suppose I have to take my hat off to the Obama administration for an unorthodox strategy to reduce the number of illegal immigrants in the country.
Nah, don’t feel wrong at all Slow. Corey needing attention like a child is always reality. I am not suggesting that a habitual drunk driver should be allowed to remain free, I don’t care whether they are here legally or not. Dead is dead, no matter what the status of the driver. I wonder, since PWC refused to treat undocumented immigrants for substance abuse, if that was not another policy mistake. How much is this debacle costing the county, not even to mention the death of the benedictine sister! Way too many killed by drunk drivers, period. We don’t live in the Tom Cruise movie “Minority Report”, no one can predict the future. If he had been granted legal status, would we be crying “NO MORE IMMIGRANTS”.
The “current” administration has had its hands tied. If we cut spending, we have to invest it in job creation. What are the republicans doing to promote that? Extending the Bush tax cuts? That’s workin’ out real well isnt it! Oh wait, creating a crisis over default that gives the impression a bunch of small minority of yahoos are in control of congress. this country needs JOBS! Jobs along with appropriate spending cuts and tax reform will bring down the deficit.
http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_18608410?source=most_viewed
U.S. federal agents allegedly allowed the Sinaloa drug cartel to traffic several tons of cocaine into the United States in exchange for information about rival cartels, according to court documents filed in a U.S. federal court.
Who needs illegals to testify?
First there’s the BATFEieio running guns. Now its the feds allowing coke into the country. I wonder how many died because of THAT?
We’re in the very best of hands.
If we cut spending, we have to invest it in job creation.
NO. That’s just it. If we de-regulate and reform taxes, we DON’T need to “invest” in job creation. “Stimulus” does not work.
What are the Republicans doing to promote jobs? Let’s see…..voting to raise the debt limit while cutting spending……at the moment, that’s what on the table. The tax cuts are preserving the jobs we do have. We won’t get more jobs until the Obama-caused uncertainty over regulations and taxes is gone. Even Democrat business owners are stating that.
Because the Democrats created an imaginary crisis over the possibility of default, the public believes now, that the economy should now be shooting up. Because that’s what the media narrative was. “If only we raise the debt ceiling, our markets will rise and the economy won’t “double dip” into another recession.”
Since the Democrats still have the majority in government and have had it since 2008, what have the Democrats done to create jobs. President Obama is going on a “listening tour” on taxpayer dollars. Its just a coincidence that the states he’s visiting are those that candidates always visit at the start of a campaign.
What does he have to listen to? Hasn’t he been listening for 2.5 years? He’s just going to ignore anything that does not fit his ideology. HE knows best. Just ask him.
“Now its the feds allowing coke into the country.”
Just to clarify, I’m not blaming the Obama admin for that one. That’s all the DOJ under Bush.
Idiots everywhere.
good idea Cargo, lets start with deregulating wall street! Oh wait, we did that, didn’t turn out so well did it.
How are you planning on paying for those tax cuts?
I really need to take a break from some of this stupidity.
@Elena
One doesn’t pay for tax cuts. Its your money. Reduce spending.
And the de-regulation I’m talking about is industrial….like preventing the EPA from closing Texas coal fired power plants.
http://www.agendawise.com/2011/08/the-coming-hazard-you-haven%E2%80%99t-heard-about/
And the “deregulation” of Wall Street didn’t work out so well because the politicians in charge were doing so, not for economic reasons, but for ideological and political reasons.
One can “de-regulate” for efficiency and still have a viable market. Its up to the politicians (which is unfortunately the problem) to do so to improve the economy and the country.
But enough of this, its getting away from the topic….
Apparently DHS does not deport the illegal aliens that it picks up unless they’re “special.” Why wouldn’t DHS want to release the information of how many PWC illegal aliens were released back into PWC? Shouldn’t the authorities of PWC be aware that the illegal aliens that they thought were taken care of are back on the street?
If ICE doesn’t have the resources to do its job, then it needs to request more resources and make its needs public.
That’s right, Moon. Kick this type of dude up the deportation line. We have enough of these screw ups of our own to deal with. You hit a real sore point with this blogger. Percentage-wise in PWC, you are much more likely to die because of him than you would be at the hands of a gangbanger. Slapping these dudes in the pokey short-term on a DUI doesn’t cure the problem, as is clear from this particular case. And, Moon, the next person on that road with this type of offender might well be you.
@Wolverine
I suppose that there are criminals that ICE determines are more important.. That is just an area over which we have no control. I am not defending drunk drivers. If PWC wants to make sure drunk drivers ar4e punished, perhaps they should decline turning them over to ICE and just let them stand trial.
I actually don’t have an opinion on this subject. If there are limited resources, ICE gets to determine what they can and cannot do. ICE isn’t our own personal service. They have to serve the entire nation. Can they respond to everyone? I doubt if they have the resources.
Corey is using immigration again for reelection. His opponent has raised over a quarter of a million dollars. He needs to appeal to his base.
Cargo,
You are incorrect, tax cuts are not free. We could pay no taxes and therefore have no services, that seems like pure stupidity for any civilized society.
No schools, roads, military, parks, clean air and water, and live in squalor, but not sure I want to live that way, do you?
I don’t mind taxes. Its how we pay for our government. But one does not “pay” for a tax cut or certain tax rate. That presumes that the tax should be a certain rate that needs to be paid and that the money belongs to the government first. What one must do is determine what tax rate brings the desired result. Then justify to the populace why that much should be taken from them. One does not budget first, spend, and then tax. One should budget, then determine if there is enough money. IF so, then spend. If not, don’t spend. Unless you borrow, but then you must budget for that too. If your tax revenue is not reaching the goal, refigure the budget or justify to the populace the need to take more of their money.
Our problem is that we use tax cuts as weapons. Targeted tax cuts are wrong. We should determine what system brings in the most money with the least harm. Historically, we bring in about 18% of GDP. So, lets set up a simple system that brings that in. Everyone should be paying the same rate. We are all equal under the law. Progressive taxes are immoral. At best, we should have a flat tax on all income (if we MUST have an income tax) over a generous poverty level. And tax everyone as individuals.
Our income level is about 2.5 trillion, give or take a few billion. We know that this formula is sound.
Return to fiscal responsibility, cut spending, and configure our taxes to reach that goal.
Everything was nearly paid for in 2008. We were fighting a war AND our bills were paid, with less than $200 billion in deficits. What could possibly be costing us 4 trillion in deficit spending in 2.5 years?
What country were nearly all the bills paid in 2008? Bwaaahahahahahahaha . Does that include TARP? What about those wars that were costing billions per week?
Cargo,
I can’t even talk to you, what reality are you in?
Moon,
The deficit in 2008 was less than $200 billion. That’s now a rounding error on the deficit. TARP was part of the 2009 fiscal year.
And the wars costing billions per week…. The entire DOD budget for the entire War on Terror was about 12 billion per month in 2008. Back then, 12 billion was considered a lot of money. Now…not so much, it seems.
So, this country is where most of the bills were paid in fiscal year 2008.
12 billion per month is quite a lot of chump change.
How dare you blame this entire mess on Obama when THAT was had been going on for 7-8 years!
Don’t even try to soften the deal here. I don’t know what fuzzy math has the deficit at only $200 billion and I have no idea where that number even came from. Its pure bull though. 2 wars and tax cuts and running the wars on borrowed money, then a financial crash….and the new kid on the block gets the blame for running up the bills. Thank goodness he at least tried to do something.
Stop trying to justifiy the unjustifiable.
Unjustifiable?
You mean, like the 4 trillion that Obama has borrowed in 2.5 years? If you want to call two different theaters in one war…two wars…then Japan and Europe were two wars. But lets do that. 12 billion/month or 144 billion per year is just over the published cost of ObamaCare and we know that published costs always increase by huge numbers. Its a fraction of the useless stimulus.
Obama is running at least FOUR wars on borrowed money. He continued the tax rates. He wanted to keep most of the tax rates and raise it on people earning more that $250k. Financial crash…..Bush started with a recession, had 9/11 and Katrina. And even if you use worse case liberal math, he still kept his deficits at 1/3 of Obama’s. So, yes. The new kid on the block, who isn’t so new anymore, gets the blame. Along with Pelosi and Reid the from the fiscal year 2009 budget that put out 1.5 trillion in debt. And that was the LAST budget that the Democrats ever produced.
Thank goodness he tried to do something? Really? So, if he stomped on the accelerator while we’re driving over a cliff, that would be alright, because he tried to do something? Something that many economists were saying would, at BEST, do nothing for the economy, and at worst, worsen the recession.
I was answering you. You brought up the war costs. I showed them to you. I told you the deficit spending in 2008. You asked. I answered.
Blaming Obama for the ENTIRE mess……? How many times have I said that Bush overspent too? BUT! And its a big BUT! Obama has accelerated the spending. And even this current “deal” to “cut spending” is a farce. Nothing’s been cut. We’re still scheduled to have 7 trillion added to the budget over 10 years, and that’s if the cuts are enacted.
Are you seriously trying to say that Obama and the Democrats are not responsible for spending over 4 trillion dollars in the last 2.5 years? Are you seriously trying to still blame Bush for Obama’s policies? You have criticism of Bush’s spendthrift ways, but Obama’s ok with you? Bush spent 5+trillion over 8 years. Obama has almost matched that in less than three years.
From NPR, last January:
Obama, of course, has said the economy made him do it. But the average inflation-adjusted deficits through Obama’s first two fiscal years will be more than ten times higher than the average inflation-adjusted deficit during the Great Depression. Even as a percentage of the gross domestic product, the average deficits in Obama’s first two fiscal years will more than three times higher the average deficit during the Great Depression. The fact that Obama’s deficits have, by any standard, more than tripled those of the Great Depression, cannot convincingly be blamed on the current recession.
And none of this even takes into account Obamacare, which the Congressional Budget Office says would increase spending by more than $2 trillion in its real first decade (2014 to 2023) — and which, even under very rosy projections, the CBO says would increase the national debt by $341 billion by the end of 2019.
don’t forget Medicare part D Cargo, at almost a trillion, thank bush and pharmacutical drug companies.
Cargo, I have no idea where you got your numbers, but they do not reflect accurately from the final conclusion of CBO. Did you cut and paste that last paragraph or actually read the CBO analysis. It is quite a convaluted read, but in the end, there is a net savings even in their updated report. Look at the section impact on the federal deficit and beyond, very interesting but very dry!
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/121xx/doc12119/03-30-HealthCareLegislation.pdf
On March 20, 2010, CBO released its final cost estimate for the reconciliation act, which encompassed the effects of both pieces of legislation. Table 1 (on page 5) provides a broad summary and Table 2 offers a detailed breakdown of the budgetary effects of the two pieces of legislation. CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) estimate that enacting both pieces of legislation will produce a net reduction in federal deficits of $143 billion over the 2010-2019 period. About $124 billion of that savings stems from provisions dealing with health care and federal revenues; the other $19 billion results from the education provisions. Those figures do not include potential costs that would be funded through future appropriations (those are discussed on pages 10-11 of the cost estimate).
http://realtimewithbillmaher.blogspot.com/2011/08/new-rules-8511.html
get ready to laugh your butt off people!
Enough attention on the feds and where our money goes, how about the same scruitny locally??? Glossy newsletters from County Complex pretty limited to focusing on individual supervisors, Civil War expense, and now this? The focus should have been on the one guy who was released and killed a nun. THAT would get national attention. Because he said that ALL 4,000 are a public safety risk he’ll just look like a whiner…. stop wasting my money.
I think it’s time to look locally folks….I for one would rather see public playing fields, street lighting and more paid fireman….