Mississippians soundly rejected an anti-abortion bill that would have given a zygote the same rights as a grown woman. The bill was voted down in a referendum and sent to the dumpster where it belonged. It now seems that Delegate Bob Marshall has done some dumpster-diving of his own and retrieved the darn thing. He has introduced it as Bill # 1 in the House of Delegates.
From NARAL Pro-Choice America:
Anti-choice zealot Del. Bob Marshall has already filed the very first piece of legislation for the 2012 General Assembly session that begins in January. His bill would give legal rights to a fertilized egg, which would jeopardize the right to abortion and could potentially ban other reproductive health-care services like birth control. That’s right: House Bill 1 will be a “personhood” measure!
From CBN:
Beware of unintended consequences. As long as Roe v Wade stands, this bill would be meaningless even if it passes. However, if Roe vs Wade or even part of it were overturned, technically, regardless of what the video says, abortion could be illegal, again after nearly 40 years, and contraception could also be illegal in Virginia.
Should this bill pass, probably the most sensible thing to do would be to file a retroactive tax form claiming your children for the year before their birth, if they were born any time before August. It probably wouldn’t work with the feds but I don’t see why it wouldn’t for Virginia income tax.
The second thing might be to go stock up on contraception. All it takes is one lunatic to take something to court to make contraception inaccessible. That is the main reason I want churches out of politics. I am sorry that I laughed at Mississippi. It appears that the ignorant are just as prolific here in the Old Dominion. The sad thing is, Delegate Bob isn’t ignorant, he just has extremely repressive religious beliefs that he insists on sharing with others.
I take things like this very seriously. I have a daughter and granddaughters and a daughter in law. I don’t want them not to have easily accessible birth control and I certainly don’t want them to have to endure a back alley abortion if they should chose to terminate a pregnancy. So as long as religious zealots want to inflict their religion on others, I will vote for a president who will give me a Supreme Court Justice who I am reasonably sure will uphold Roe vs. Wade and Griswald vs. Connecticut.
There are so many important attributes for a president to have. What a shame that some of us feel we must select one based on a Supreme Court nomination. Meanwhile, Delegate Bob and his followers need to mind their own business.
MH sez: “Should this bill pass, probably the most sensible thing to do would be to file a retroactive tax form claiming your children for the year before their birth, if they were born any time before August.”
I like that. So what you are really saying is that this bill may just be an attempt to extend the tax credit for children. You are thinking like a conservative ……
That was an accident I think. 🙄
Actually some of my abortion views are very conservative, or rather how *I* define conservative.
I don’t know how being pro-choice ever got to be labeled ‘liberal.’ I don’t really think it is. Of course, I don’t think it should be a political issue.
Sideshow Bob ….another woman hater who wants to force his religious beliefs on everyone else. I don’t know who will be the bigger buffoon in Richmond this year – Marshall or plastic fetus guy, Dick Black.
You know, I grew up in the rural South of the 1950s and 60s, and the local politicians weren’t as backwards as these two loons who have come out of the suburbs of a major metropolitan area. My mother and her friends took the pill!!!! Churches stayed out of people’s business – except the fundamentalist Baptist Churches which frowned on dancing and the local Church of God which rounded up their flock and headed for the hills of Colorado to await the rapture.
What’s WITH this guy anyway? Is he a eunuch, is he sterile, is he asexual,
is he married and, if so, does he have sex only when he wants to inseminate
his wife, if he has a wife? Does he have children?
“Should this bill pass, probably the most sensible thing to do would be to file a retroactive tax form claiming your children for the year before their birth, if they were born any time before August. It probably wouldn’t work with the feds but I don’t see why it wouldn’t for Virginia income tax.”
Intersting concept – and I like the sense of irony in it.
I know the tax code already provides if a child is born premature and dies prior to a Certificate of Live Birth being issued, one can claim the child as a dependent for that tax year with all associated deductions.
My compliments to you on what is maybe the PERFECT lefty argument. Structured like all lefty arguments, and with the same sublime word choice. I think we found an Obama speech writer here!
Couple of points for you lefties: you’re right, but for all the wrong reasons (congratulations?) Got NOTHING to do with hating women, has everything to do with imposing one’s choices on everyone else, and why “conservatives” often run into trouble. I don’t mind the morning-after pill, and your typical early first trimester abortion. Once you hit the third trimester, my tolerance for abortion goes into the toilet. Overall, though, I think it’s a personal choice of the parents. In my mind, if one or both of the parents believes an abortion is the best thing to do, they are probably saving that child a truly screwed-up life. This is another issue that I bet a solution that over 80% of the country could live with could be found, but the hard right is looney-inflexible, and the hard left makes maybe the dumbest arguments imaginable (it’s about hating women, for example).
But again, look at the bright side, a bill like this would never pass, because all but a very small percentage of those right-of-center won’t let it, not because the left-of-center allows lunacy to spew out.
And of course, the tax trick would be interesting to see. Try that and maybe we’ll see why the IRS had a Purchase Order online for everyone to see to buy a large quantity of Remington 870s.
Moon in the thread you site CBS as the source. However, that silent film(no sound chip) is compliments of CBN which is the Christian Broadcasting Network. CBS doesn’t need to be drug into the sideshow of the Commonwealth. I probably don’t want you to call me so I hear this stuff.
I would be remiss if I didn’t post this. No need to ask for Moon, as I will gladly post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6k4RrKNk7s
Ha ha…and then there’s the right-wing’s predictable mention of guns.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
FYI:
I was talking about birth control. Lived in Massachussetts in the 50s
when it was illegal to purchase any birth control device.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
Nice post with the exception of the “lefties” stuff. I had no idea you were so open minded. 😉
Good for you for telling it like it is regarding the doom and gloom of a life some kids would be destined to have if they were going to be raised by those that were just not ready or whatever reason.
I wonder what the difference is between those “Islamic Extremists” who want a strict theocracy and people like Bob Marshall who would make using certain forms of birth control illegal along with a womans inalienable right to have dominion over her own body.
When the State can have control over every mans set of testicles then we can start having a conversation.
I wonder how many people in this country are aware that maternal mortality of the United States compared to other industrialized country is 49th. Yes folks, women RISK their lives to give birth and this ahole wants to say when I HAVE to give birth or HAVE to get pregnant because certain forms of birth control would become illegal.
I am disgusted. What a joke. Yeah, “taxed enough already” makes these conservatives pissed but invading a womans body is o.k.? Government intervention is perfectly fine as long as it subjugates women.
Slow, because you won’t be forced to bear a child, I can see why you cannot see how this measure is 100% directed at women (sarcarsm here). Like I said, when the state has control over your testicles (maybe forced vasectomy although there is nothing that compares with birth), then maybe you will have an inkling of how I feel.
Elena, you’re absolutely right. Where do these people get the idea that they have the right to dictate what happens to a woman’s body? The absolute gall!
You know Censored, no woman wants an abortion. If these people invested the same amount of energy into preventing unwanted pregrancy then maybe we could really deal with the abortion rate in this country!
He is only one of the many people that have nothing better to do – on a National level – a Congressman is doing the same – http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/05/abortion-battle-heats-up-on-hill/?test=latestnews#ixzz1fk2rFYPR – they cannot even tell you how often an abortion is made because of race or gender, but they want to ban it anyway. Is this what Congress should be spending their time on? No wonder they have to burn the midnight oil to get things like the debt ceiling passed.
@punchak
It wasn’t just Massachusetts. My mother couldn’t buy contraception in New Jersey either in the 50’s…the LATE 50s.
@Lafayette
You are correct about CBN. What a difference a letter makes. Correction made and link. Strange, I rarely cite source on videos.
It is important for all of us to realize the differences in this Bill #1 and Mississippi. In Mississippi there was a referendum. The people sent the bill packing, right to the old dumpster.
This bill won’t have the obstacles of ‘the people.’ It could easily slide through with a very abortion hostile house of delegates, all trying to out ‘conservative’ each other. We also cannot count on the senate to block the bill in committee.
Remember that absurd anti abortion bill that passed last year? Send your thank you note to none other than Senator Colgan who allowed that one to slip through.
Don’t assume this bill cannot pass. It stands a very good chance of passing.
Only the first paragraph of that last comment was @ Lafayette. The rest was a general statement.
The time to have stopped this bill was at the ballot box. Virginians were once again asleep at the switch or just didn’t give a rat’s ass. They sent very anti choice candidates to Richmond.
Its time to bring all this anti choice business to a head. Let it go to the Courts. If there was ever a good test case, we have it here in Virginia, once the Gov. signs that very restrictive clinics bill. The minute he signs, (and I feel he will, even though the state disregarded what medical advisors recommended) you have a very obviously unfair situation because abortion services will have to jump though a whole bunch of hoops that dentistry, gasterointerology, pediatry, cosmetic surgery, dermatology, etc does not have to go through. There is very little difference. Anesthesia is the main danger in all those situations, yet only abortion, which rarely uses anesthsia, is the procedure which jumps through all the hoops.
@Moon-howler
EXACTLY. I believe that, if anything, this is a healthcare/medical issue. An abortion is a medical procedure that any and all women should have access to. Reproduction is a personal and INALIENABLE right given to every person on this earth at birth. Notice I said BIRTH, because up until the moment of first breath, a baby is technically and medically classified as parasitic. A fetus is completely dependent upon the mother for ALL BODILY FUNCTIONS to the detriment of the mother – the host, if you will. If for any reason the mother decides that her body is not a welcome host, then she should have every right to abort the pregnancy.
@Smurphalot
I was replying to kelly3406 by the way. :/
As far as religious zealots like Del. Bob Marshall and the CBN crew go, I think that they should consider the fact that their God gave men the power to inseminate, but saddled WOMEN with the actual growth and development of life. It is up to the pregnant mother to provide herself and her unborn fetus with a safe and healthy environment, and the proper nutrition to develop healthily. She must consider her personal medical history, thoroughly examine any medication – all the way down to antacids – that she consumes, and completely change her way of life. Becoming a mother demands lifestyle changes that men are often unwilling to undergo even AFTER their genetic line has been placed in their arms!!! I think God took this into consideration, and decided that women – the more complex and (generally) thoughtful of the genders – would have the final say-so. They would not blindly charge into parenthood like a soldier taking orders from an unseen and distant authority; they would consider their individual situation, and the conditions and environment she could provide this new human, and make the most logical decision from there. If you question anyone’s decision, Del. Bob, question God’s. Why, oh why didn’t God give you a uterus?
Welcome Smurphalot,
I like your thinking on way women were given the gift of bearing children!
@Elena
@Elena: and it is not just a gift, it is the ultimate responsibility. A responsibility that should not, and – logically – cannot be forced on any woman; it minimizes the entire act of having a child, and parenthood in general.
@Smurphalot
I was not really commenting on the issue of abortion, just that MH had come up with an original, albeit amusing, take on the implications of this bill.
As eloquent as your arguments sound, they are really nothing new. The issue is really difficult, because it involves two important conflicting values. It pits the right to privacy/free choice, which I greatly value, against the responsibility of society to protect the innocent/defenseless, which I greatly value. One’s view therefore depends on which value a person believes should take precedence over the other. In my view, it is not very satisfying to be forced to ignore one in favor of the other, but that is probably why it causes such conflict.
Kelly,
That is why prevention should be the goal of all peoples who are concerned for women and choices they face when dealing with unwanted pregnancies.
@Smurphalot
Welcome Smurphalot.
Actually, women always have had the control over these issues. When abortion is relatively safe and legal, the risk is just much less. Even today rat bastards prey on women’s vulnerabilities during times of unwanted pregnancy. I am thinking of that cretin in Philadelphia who really was performing illegal abortions. He lacked the credentials and the knowledge to be performing an invasive procedure.
We need to be on guard against those who would force into such desperate acts as to go to someone like this hideous human being.
I am going to take that middle ground and pretty much agree with everyone. These are all valid points of view and points of view that should considered. I am just not willing to give the government the ultimate decision over reproduction.
Smurph is looking at the raw basics. Pretty much, she is right. However, as women, we do use our brains and our instincts that include nurturing to protect our off-spring. We aren’t binary creatures who must decide yes or no, black or white, good or bad. We have choices and all sorts of area in the middle .
What we never hear discussed is a practice often used in my day, when I was growing up. The pregnant girl was sent away to live with an aunt or to a ‘home for unwed mothers ‘ (even the name sounds harsh and punitive). The girl had her baby which was whisked away at birth, often never even held by the birth mother, never to be seen again.
Now THAT is unnatural. It goes against all that is hormonal and all that is natural to motherhood. Many of these girls, as they became grown women, spent the rest of their lives pining away for that which was snatched from them. What bothers me the most about this practice is those girls didn’t have a choice. Today girls and women have choices. They have an abortion, they can have a baby, or they can arrange an adoption.
What I described had no choice in it. Usually it was the parents inflicting this harsh treatment on to their daughters.
My husband has 2 aunts who never spoke to each other because one had a baby ‘out of wedlock’ and it was taken away and adopted out. Now that is abnormal.
The closer to term one gets, the more repugnant abortion becomes. In that respect, I agree with Kelly. However, at the zygote stage, my sympathies will always lie with women. Prevention is the smart way to fly here.
The great thinkers of the world have not been able to agree on when life begins. How about life is a continuum. Not to be corny, but Shakespeare and the Lion King seem to be more on the mark than Bob Marshall.
@Elena
OK, well, as far as being forced to bear a child, how ’bout I grant you this argument: no ovaries, no opinion. I’ve heard that one before, and when I heard it, I thought, “well, that’s fair!”. To me, it’s about freedom. I’m not convinced the Federal Government (or even the state governments, for that matter), should be forcing reproductive behavior on anyone, pro-abortion or anti-abortion. Being a reasonably new father, I feel like it’s the most personal and gut-wrenching decision any one person or couple can make, no matter which way it goes. I don’t know what chemical got released in my brain when my boys were born, but it COMPLETELY screwed up my head, and I’m probably not capable of formulating rational opinions when it comes to reproductive matters.
And the good thing, pokie, is that you admit it. I think the operative word here is gut-wrenching. Thanks for your contribution here.
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
🙂