Why is it that people who want to knock giant holes in abortion rights also want to knock out programs that exist to reduce unintended pregnancy? Governor Robert McDonnell seems to be jumping on the stupidity bandwagon on this very subject.
According to the Washington Post:
McDonnell (R) wants to eliminate funding — $455,000 — for pregnancy prevention programs across the state that offer sex education and birth control to teenagers.
The Teen Pregnancy Prevention Initiative funds programs at schools and clinics in seven health districts, including Alexandria, which have the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the state.
McDonnell’s administration says that the money is being discontinued because the initiative has not worked — and that the localities continue to experience pregnancy rates above the state average.Although Virginia’s teen pregnancy rate is below the national average, 28 cities and counties are above the national average. In 2010, 10,970 teen pregnancies were reported in Virginia.
“The elimination of this long-standing health program could have serious consequences for women and girls’ health,” said Katherine Greenier, director of the Patricia M. Arnold Women’s Rights Project at the ACLU of Virginia. “Teens need good information and services to make informed, healthy choices. To ensure a decline in teen pregnancy rates continue we must provide teens with the necessary information, education and resources.’’
The program worked with 4,642 teens in fiscal 2010, including those at the Teen Wellness Center at T.C. Williams High School in Alexandria, which serves youths 12 to 19.
Eliminating this program is penny wise and pound foolish. One teen pregnancy can very well impact medicaid, the food stamp program, and other forms of social service for many years. Teen pregnancy often keeps both the mother and child in a cycle of poverty that is difficult to break.
It makes no sense. Why does this administration want to take us backwards? Historically, saying “don’t do it” doesn’t work. Obviously programs like this endangered one don’t stop all pregnancy. They reduce the instance and help those who are pregnant. In other words, it is a comprehensive program. Sadly, eliminating programs like this one often causes a higher abortion rate.
Governor McDonnell is simply wrong on this issue. Frankly, I don’t want to have to pay for his mistake. This is the same gang who wants to defund Planned Parenthood. They can’t stamp out sex for others, regardless of how much effort goes into it. McDonnell and his merry band of conservatives are sticking their heads in the sand if they think that eliminating the Teen Pregnancy Prevention Intiative is going to save the state money or reduce the number of teen pregnancies. What is he gaging ‘it doesn’t work’ on? If it reduces teen pregnancy by 10% it is ‘working’ in terms of quality of life issues and in terms of state financial obligation down the road. A penny saved is a penny earned.
If this is the best men can do in logic, perhaps McDonnell just needs to sit down and shut the hell up.
Maybe we should call Gov McDonnel Forrest from now on…….”stupid is as stupid does”
Which genius thought of this stupid idea? How can one be against abortion/unwanted pregnancy and then cut the one program that is suppose to do JUST that!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MT3CihStFQ
furthermore, McDonnel is suggesting these locals pregnancy rate is above the state average, how many pregnancies are being PREVENTED. How does he know this rate would not be DOUBLE what it is today?
How do you count who isn’t getting pregnant?
I guess we will see.
Free market organizations and groups like Planned Parenthood can fill in the gaps without using taxpayer funds to run these programs outside of school.
Free market organizations? What the hell are those?
Are youi going to be willing to pay for the extra costs out of your tax dollars for additional children on the dole?
Marinm, you do realize when teenagers have babies, in many ways, we ALL pay with our tax money.
I can tell you it is MUCH cheaper to prevent!
Does anyone know if these programs are successful in preventing pregnancy? Just because a kid grabs a handful of contraceptives does not mean that they were used. I have my doubts that this program really worked for over 4,500 teens in a single school. Proof, please.
Kelly, how does one count those who don’t get pregnant? Prove it doesn’t work.
Define ‘work.’
I would say the program pays for itself if 2 teenagers in high school don’t get pregant and give birth. Ker ching. The girl finishes school. ker ching the girl gets a job ker ching The girl doesn’t have a child tapping in to medicaid, WIC, food stamps, day care. No ker ching. Over 18 years these programs for one person can really get expensive, aproaching a million dollars.
“Are youi going to be willing to pay for the extra costs out of your tax dollars for additional children on the dole?”
You’re assuming the govt should be in the position of providing FOR a dole.
“Marinm, you do realize when teenagers have babies, in many ways, we ALL pay with our tax money.
I can tell you it is MUCH cheaper to prevent!”
I think Virginia had a (forced) sterlization program with much the same idea.
I am assuming that right now the government is paying for medicaid, WIC and scores of other programs involving children through social services. Am I wrong? Ids that a figment of my imagination?
There sterilization program you are referencing has absolutely nothing to do with this issue and simply shows that you don’t know what you are talking about. Check out Buck vs Bell to get your facts.
You are being silly Marinm, suggesting that teens who are educated on birth control in any way resembles forced sterilzation. I would add, FORCED childbirth should be as equally offensive.
@Elena
The idea is that the govt should be envolved at all is what I find as offensive (or silly).
The government has a vested interest in making sure unintended pregnancy doens’t take place, especially if those people turn right around and apply for government benefits.
All governments in the civilized world help out those less fortunate. Those who don’t like that should go live in some country where it is every dog for himself and just hope and pray they stay healthy productive dogs.
When did you become pro choice and for gay marriage Marinm?
@Moon-howler
The govt also has a vested interest in making sure that all future children are taxpayers and not a drain. So, IQ tests for parents and children? When we say vested interest we have to avoid unintended consequences.
Should we require a permit for people to have children? Should those parents have a genetic screen to make sure that the offspring will benefit society?
Elena, it actually hurts me that you don’t know – after over a year plus on this blog – that I am pro-choice. I think the process is disgusting but I also feel that government intrusion on the woman without damn good reason is even uglier.
With respect to gay marriage I support a states right argument. Each state should figure out on their own if they’ll provide for “gay marriage”. I personally would not vote for gay marriage but would be amiable to civil unions or contract partnerships.
@marin and kelly
The govt educates children so they are not a drain. It doesn’t work for everyone but for most it does, The other suggestions I won’t address for obvious reasons.
You can never prove who didn’t get pregnant. Not everything has an effective metric, kelly. You will have to look at trendable data. I expect the Teen Pregnancy Prevention Initiatve is being blown off by McDonnell so he can strut his values cred. It just makes me lose respect. He doesn’t know if it works for not. If i wanted to submit data I would look at cities and localities with similar demographics and graph their teen pregnancies over a period of time. I would compare those with initiatives and those without. I would gather anecdotal evidence to support the hard data.
I would like for McDonnell to justify why an established program ‘doesn’t work,’ since he is the one advocating change. Title X type programs for family planning were authorized by Richard M. Nixon. This is hardly something new.
Some of the new Republicans need to get over trying to do away with everything that has anything to do with human sexuality.
@Kelly, and I am asking for proof that the established program doesn’t work.
I am only saying that you cannot prove that someone doesn’t get pregnant. See statement to Marin.
@MH
Of course it cannot be proven that a specific individual did not get pregnant. But the program should be able to statistically demonstrate the effectiveness of the program. An effective program would be one for which statistics show the pregnancy rate dropped by xx % after the program was introduced at a school. Or that the pregnancy rate is yy % lower for schools that have the program than for schools that do not.
If the program cannot demonstrate statistically significant reductions in the rates of pregnancy, then Gov McDonnell may be on to something. In these times of budget shortfalls, perhaps he should divert the funds to something in which there is a measurable benefit.
Kelly, have you ever thought about how much one pregnant teenager generally costs society, especially if she comes from a family already in poverty? Holy cow! Hundreds of thousands of dollars.
You and I both know that privacy prevents attaching data to each kid who might use the program so you are setting up a strawman situation. Not buying it. I am sure those involved with the program are busily compiling general information, if there aren’t reports already. Comparisons will be done areas with similar demographics who have teen prevention programs compared with those that don’t. that’s as good as it gets.
Perhaps you and your conservative cronies could just go in there and tell those teenage girls not to do the dirty deed,. Tell. them its nasty. That should do it.
I seem to remember being very disturbed finding out about Bob McDonnell’s thesis work with that old enlightened rascal, Pat Robertson. I was assured it was just an academic paper and had nothing to do with how Bob McDonnell would govern. I believe in that paper he opposed all prevention plans except abstainence, which we know ALWAYS works.
Do you think someone lied to me when they told me he wouldn’t govern that way?
I say cut the program and then do a cost benefit analysis when kids start having even more babies. I mean who EVER heard that prevention was common sense anyway!
Who the heck was it again that said this “silly” ole saying again?
“an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”
Oh yeah, Ben Silly Franklin, one of our most critical founding fathers. What did he know anyhow!
One thought about the Governor’s rational… he says these jurisdictions still experience teen pregnancies above the State average. His logic fails in that if one uses “averages”, one must understand that to have an average there must be some countables above, as well as below, the average number. Otherwise the average number could not be calculated. So, of the 99 or so jurisdictions that make up the Commonwealth, I would bet that, regardless of the total number of pregnancies, there will always be some that experience cases above as well as below the State’s average. Maybe a better metric to use would be the total number of teen pregnancies experienced over time and adjusted for population growth. Did this number rise or fall after the implementation of prevention programs.
Interesting point, BS.
I agree. Even a ratio might give us more information.
@BS in VA
sounds perfectly logical, maybe that’s why the social agenda driven republicans did bot think of it themselves when entertaining such a hatchet job position on the funding to prevent abortion. Yes, I think that is what I will call this legislation by McDonnell, PRO ABORTION!
My apologies Marinm. I stand corrected!
@marinm
Why do we want a patchwork of marriage or civil union laws. So you are married in one state and not in another? What good does that do, just out of curiosity? Do we stone the couple if they are in the wrong state?
I would say the state needs to get out of the business of marriage and let the churches handle those. States can just do civil unions which would be the contractual end,
@Moon-howler
Stoning is illegal.
We have a patchwork of laws on almost any topic across almost any jurisdiction. Towns, Cities, Counties, States..
For example, let us assume that I have a Virginia concealed handgun permit. Can I goto Maryland with it? DC? Chicago? LA?
I think at the federale level we also need to get rid of any benefits associated with marriage such as a tax benefit for being married. Church and state. 🙂
@marin, you cannot get unmarried. You can not carry a weapon or alter what you do to comply with the law. I am not even sure I like states setting different gun laws. 2nd amendment. Write it out and stick to it.
I would be ok with no marriage benefits. Civil unions are a contractual agreements. Tie all ‘benefits’ to civil unions and they are federal. Let churches handle ‘marriages.’
I think that most teens have a good idea how to prevent pregnancy and where to get birth control when they want it. I think that it is a good idea to have clinics that educate and dispense birth control for those who are interested. However, all the education and free access to birth control won’t work if the individual fails to use it or for whatever reason WANTS to be a teen mom. There are many young girls out there who want to get pregnant and do so deliberately with little foresight as to the future ramifications of their decision. But teens don’t always make choices that are sound. The only people that can really prevent teen pregnancy are the teens themselves.
@DB,
You are right that there are teens out there who want to be pregnant. I am not sure if they actually want babies or children. I am not sure they are capable of thinking that far ahead. I will never understand why.
I still want to keep the pregnancy prevention initiative—particularly for this kind of kid. Maybe they can be brainwashed into not wanting to become a statistic.
+1 to DB. I watch Teen Mom which btw is probably a better anti-prego campaign than anything taught at school because you see how screwed up these girls/teens/women are.
+1 to MH’s 2nd para. I also agree with you re guns as that one example is codified in the BoR (Bill of Rights). Maybe I should’ve used another example but you get what I’m saying.. States already do things differently and somehow – magically – it all works. But, I wouldn’t tie benefits into marriage, civil unions or contract marriages. No benefits at all. Govt shouldn’t be involved what so ever.
@marin
DB is right about screwed up girls. I think it is some sort of sicko ownership thing. Like getting a puppy xcept its a kid and you can’t take it to the pound if things don’t work out. That should be a part of the initaitve and probably is.
I just don’t like a patchwork of laws. Now, education being local…fine. Speed limits, that sort of thing. But something that is Constitutional…nah.
I don’t mind a civil union, because it is a contract, having certain ‘advantages.’ For instance, (thought of one) if you are unioned, then you get to include your partner on your health care. As for taxes, I like having a marriage break but I agree that the govt should not be in the position of pushing marriage. It that is what it is doing, then it is failing anyway. Did I just read that less than half the people in America are married. That seems hard to believe. Does that include people too young to be married or just adults?
marin, what is your avatar about?
MH, to your question in 32.
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That is almost a surprise.