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Who watched the SOTU Address? Opinions?
103 Thoughts to “Open Thread…………………………………………….Thursday, January 25”
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Blogroll
- 9500Liberty
- Bacons' Rebellion Blogspot
- Bearing Drift
- Blue Virginia
- Citizen Tom
- Counts of Monte Cristo. The
- Derecho, The
- Dixie Pig, The
- My Side of the Fence
- My Star Journey
- NARAL Pro-Choice VA Blog
- New Dominion Project
- Nova Common Sense
- NovaTownHall Blog
- One Libertarians's Point of View by Al Alborn
- Pete Candland's Blog
- Potomac Local
- Prince William Muckraker
- PW Conservation Alliance
- PWC Moms
- PWCPolitics.com
- PWCPolitics.com
- Red NoVA
- Shad Plank, The
- She the People
- State of NoVA, the
- The Jeffersoniad
- Townhall
- VEA Daily Reports
- VivianPaige
- WDGolden.com
- You, Me and the Lamp Post
@IVAN
Interesting. Maybe they can vote their demographics into changing. NOT.
City of Manassas suffers from having one high school and no way to water things down and hide them like the county has.
I feel sorry for those who are there daily working as hard as they can. It must be disheartening.
The Manassas School Board elections are important, and Charles Partullo should expend his energies there with the backing of OHS parents. Shooting for the Council was misdirected given his base. Unfortunately, there are no strong canditates annoucing to run and if they are thinking, they should get going….two Board members are long entrenched and will be hard to knock off.
I am curious why anyone wants to knock off the school board members. What are they blocking that people think will fix things?
I suppose I find it contra-logical to think that getting rid of two people is somehow going to wave a magic wand and fix the demographics of the city. Perhaps there is something going on not apparent to the greater community.
Congratulations to the Mayor and the three nominees for Council. They’re hard workers who don’t complain about the amount of time they willingly give to their community, understand that the community is diverse, and offer mature, steady leadership in economically challenging times. (The young newcomer has shown a willing involvement in community activities despite his younger age as well).
@Pat Herve
“cargo – you want to tie the Kaine quote and the Jens Soring matter together. What you are doing is taking the quote out of context, and mashing it together with an unrelated issue, and hope that by repeating it often enough it will stick. Although you might not be the original author, and you do reference another blog, you have repeated in here on this blog, you even pulled out the quote and mashed it together with Soering.”
Your comprehension seems to be weak.
I repeated it again because YOU wanted clarification. “Repeating often enough to make it stick?” Really? The only reason I’ve repeated it more than my initial article was to reply to YOU.
I found the AP article that YOU demanded. You make it sound like I’m making it up.
I quoted FROM THAT article, in context. I will now add MORE context from THAT article. I am not the one combining his statement with the Soering case. THE AP IS. Here ya go.
“When Timothy M. Kaine left the governor’s office 17 months ago to head the Democratic National Committee, he figured he was done with electoral politics.
That could explain unpopular moves such as a major tax increase, closing some interstate rest stops and proposing a return to Germany — and eventual freedom — for a former German diplomat’s son serving a life term in Virginia for butchering his then-girlfriend’s parents.”
The above are two CONSECUTIVE paragraphs. The AP is joining his statements with past actions, not me. I thought, apparently incorrectly, that possible Kaine supporters might want to see what’s being written. It’s not like I’m spreading this to many conservatives on this site. If I just wanted to “spread this,” I would have put it out elsewhere.
I’m attacked because I pointed out something I found. I find the answers to the questions I’m asked, and I’M the BAD guy. No, Kaine was not releasing Soering into the public. He was sending him back to Germany, with the knowledge that the Virginia public overwhelming stated that they wanted him to serve out his term HERE because they were afraid of lenient laws in Germany. It was a controversy then. It was a controversy when McDonnell reversed it. Its applicable now because it points at his decision making process.
And Moon, I don’t want illegal aliens that murder deported. I want them fully punished according to the law. I want illegal aliens deported BEFORE they commit crimes other than entering the country illegally.
Why do I care? Why don’t YOU care? Are you ok with the idea that he could have been released for time served after only 2 years in Germany? That they had to make this a special case to get THAT much? He would have been released. Shouldn’t convicted murderers serve all of their time? Its not about “vengeance”. Its justice.
If he gets parole…fine. That means that the people that put him in jail have decided that is ok for him to have parole. Not because of laws that are more lenient than ours.
@Cargo
Don’t insult people. You originally stated that Kaine said he was going to release him because he wasn’t going to be in office again. Pat and I both asked for verification of that remark. You still haven’t provided it. You gave us someone else’s opinion and did try to bundle two things together.
No one attacked you. You are insulting people about their comprehension ability (Pat and me since we both agree) and then you are trying to sell the same old snake oil. It is still the author’s opinion rather than Kaine’s words.
No, I really don’t care to be perfectly honest. How do I know when enough punishment is? I don’t know how long the Germans would hold him. He will be there and not here so it is in their best interest to evaluate him carefully. He isn’t a threat to any American if he is in Germany and forbidden to come to the United States.
Vengence isn’t mine. I expect the judge probably sentenced him based on advice of the commonwealth’s attorney. He has been in jail over 20 years. He would have been in jail another 2 years at a minimum. I care more about the 50k a year it costs to keep a high profile convicted felon in jail and his many appeals. Send the little creep home.
Parole…let’s see…here or Germany. I vote for Germany. Foir all we know the judge who sentenced him is dead after this length of time.
So, why are we having this discussion? Oh yea, you wanted to bash Tim Kaine. For the record, I will be supporting Kaine, which you knew anyway. This discussion made my mind up.
@Moon-howler
Moon, one member has been on the Board 20 years, the other 10 years. Both have failed in their elected leader role in the mindset of many. Your right it will not change demographics – that will not change. But it does change the culture.
Think on PWCS Board and much battles in the last five years or so too with certain members, statements made, and the classic example of Math Experimentations (or whatever the name of that thing was that had the parents riled). Much talk made on blogs of removing certain people too. Don’t recall the names as PWCS Board has no direct impact on me, just remember reading it in the local rag.
Just as Ian Lovejoy is looked as fresh blood and new ideas, same is said for the two members who many in the greater community think and feel are part of the problem, and not giving viable solutions. Yes, the City situation is worse than County, but both have Board members each side of the fence feel are the problem, and in the way of solutions.
@BSinVA
Here are more examples of why businesses move abroad:
Zakaria: Does America need an industrial policy?
By Fareed Zakaria, CNN
In a front page story last week, the New York Times detailed how Apple’s iPhone ended up being made outside America. The Times wrote about the Apple executives who visited a factory in China to see if it could cut the glass precisely for the phone’s touch screen. When the Apple team got there, the factory owners were already constructing a new wing. “This is in case you give us the contract,” the manager explained.
How could they afford such an extravagant gesture? Well, it turns out, the Times noted, that they received subsidies from the Chinese government. That one incident is part of a pattern.
In 2009, for example, Bridgelux, a light-emitting chip manufacturer in the United States, was searching for a new factory site, the company considered the cost of building in the U.S. and elsewhere. The government of Singapore offered to pay half the setup cost of the plant.
“Why can’t we do that here in the U.S.?” the CEO Bill Watkins asked.
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/29/zakaria-does-america-need-an-industrial-policy/
Foreign governments subsidize their industries. US companies will seek the lowest costs, and that inevitably results in jobs moving offshore. Taxes have nothing to do with this.
Among our recourses are 1) have our own governments subisidize the costs of private businessess or 2) impose trade restrictions; 3) pay our workders 10 cents an hour.
I rest my case:
GOP hopes Soering issue will damage Kaine’s Senate run
http://hamptonroads.com/2012/01/gop-hopes-soering-issue-will-damage-kaines-senate-run
Let’s say or twist anything to hurt Tim Kaine. Yea, that’s the ticket.
@Ray Beverage
Thanks Ray. Gottcha. I am very familiar with one of the county fights. A small but vocal group of parents can puff up their feathers and appear larger than life. Translation: A few blow-hards in the community think they know all the answers. I will stay tuned.
Maybe someone will come along and fill us in on the City details. I had gotten the impression that City issues were more generalized than county issues.
@Cargosquid
cargo – what you are referencing is the intertwining of opinion and quotes. You can stand by what you think that article says, it is a bit of drive by journalism – and I believe the quote was taken out of context, and conveniently inserted into the article. I am done with this topic.
@Pat Herve
Finally.
Hey, believe what you will. But thanks for finally stating that I did not take it out of context. Next time read the articles that you reference, ask for, and report on, before criticizing someone else’s comments. THEY might have done so, but I didn’t.
@Moon-howler
Notice that I never said that the GOP wouldn’t use the Soering case to hurt Timmy’s chances. His decision is fair game.
@Moon-howler
You were insulting me.
I reported a newspaper column. I then found the AP article where that comment came from that you guys asked for. Then I’m criticized for comments made THERE. You both continue to state that I’m the one that I’m the one that did this. You asked for verification. You got it. Are you asking me to call up Timmy and ask him?
Apparently, you don’t want me to comment anymore. In this case I WASN’T trying to bash him. I had no comment from me in that original link. I linked to it to show YOU guys what was being said and then ended up having to defend my actions, being told that I was taking things out of context.
Why are we having this discussion? Because you asked for verification and told me that I was taking things out of context. Because you jumped all over me for an article that I just linked to.
Ok. You don’t want to see what conservatives might be saying out there. I won’t link anymore things to you. I won’t say anything that might disturb this blog.
I thought that I was linking something without comment about an article about YOUR guy would be welcome. And criticizing THEM for possibly taking it out of context is fine. I DID NOT. I link to things that I think that your readership might find interesting and generate discussion. I like discussing things here. I don’t mind it when you guys force me to back up what I opine on.
But… lately, I don’t feel welcome.
Let me know if you want me back.
Bye.
Cargo, You said that Tim Kaine said that he commuted the sentence because he wouldn’t be running for office in Virginia any more. Pat and I independently pointed out that Kaine didn’t give that as a reason for his actions with Soering. That was the author of the ariticle’s opinion.
No one asked you to leave. You blasted Kaine on something and we blasted back. Had Kaine come to me at the time and asked if he should send the dude back to Germany, I would have probably said no, let him rot here but I don’t have strong feelings about it one way or the other. He has been locked up over 25 yers. That’s a long time.
I feel the R’s are trying to turn the Soering situation into a Willie Horton moment. I will fight that. He reasoning was sound, regardless of whether you and I agree with it or not.
All too often politics gets turned into name calling and gotcha moments. (Brewer/Obama for example)
If I wanted to nail Tim Kaine it would probably be for taking the DNC chair while still the Gov. of Virginia, not Soering who is just another POS.
I think a lot of people here will find this useful: http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/bobbarker31/3280983403_b0e0503945_o.jpg
@Ray Beverage
Well, I went and looked up the City School Board. I don’t know anything more now than before I looked them up.
What are the major issues in the City and how does the school board or members of the school board affect how those issues are solved?
Maybe it is unfair of me to put Ray in the hot seat over this because if I am reading this correctly, the older members seem to be upholding something that is preventing change. Is there someone else who can generically head me in the right direction?
Moon,
Basically, the school’s receive 2/3 of ever dollar that comes into the city treasury, OHS is in danger of losing its accreditation because of sub-standard graduation rates. The City of Manassas Park (while borderline insolvent) has similar demographics, spends less per-pupil, and achieves better results. Citizens are rightly concerned, and are demanding action. At first, the MCSB refused to acknowledge there was a problem, and was unresponsive to citizen concerns. Citizens appealed to the City Council. The council was (IMHO) reluctant to confront another elected board. Education forward was initiated to pull the schoolboard out into the sunshine, identify the root causes, and develop possible solutions to the problems. Many citizens want to affix blame, and start lopping off heads. While this may be needed, it is not the preferred first course of action. The Board, and the superintendent, have an opportunity to come up with a workable plan. Asking for a big bag of money won’t fly with the citizens. They want to see a reprioritization of current spending first.
In following things thus far, I am amazed at how politically tone-deaf the schoolboard and the superintendent are. The “wish list” presented by the “schools” side of Education forward may very well lead to improvements, but there is no garantee. What is garanteed is every one of the items on the list, will cost money. When MCPS is getting better results, with a lower cost-per-pupil, citizens have little patience for the arguments that the schools are underfunded. Manassas citizen Rick Bookwalter recently published a scathing rebuke of the schoolboard, which I believe accurately captures the sentiments of the citizenry ( http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2012/jan/19/guest-commentary-manassas-schools-need-leadership-ar-1624565/). No one is blaming the students or the teachers.
Thanks Steve. I am getting a little insight into the problem. In the first place, the City cannot bury its problems quite as well as the county can, just because of sheer numbers. You have one high school, not 13.
The second thing I am hearing is something systemic in most schools. NCLB is literally beating the joy of learning out of students and teachers. Most people don’t understand the expectations of NCLB and it is nearly impossible to articulate those expectations to people who work with it every day, much less the school board and the parents. For instance, a school can have darn good scores in math, reading, science and social studies and still not make AYP. How can that be? I still haven’t figured it out…AYP = adequate yearly progress. The school improved but not enough in one of the sub groups. Who are the sub groups? Economically disadvantaged, minority, ESOL and SPED are the usual ones. If you hear me heading towards ‘nothing is ever good enough’ that is pretty much the size of it. Schools with high populations of any of those sub groups have a tough time.
Teachers have been so beaten down by all of this they need a cheer leading squad when they get out of their cars in the morning. The county hires rescue principals for their problem schools. Some of those principals, (not all!) have gone and just beaten up on teachers and kids. Kids are tested all the time and teachers are continually badgered with meeting after meeting.
Have I seen this in the City? No. However, if it is like most school systems in Virginia, I think I have pretty much described what goes on.
I won’t comment on your school board folks. I don’t know but one of them. Until the State gets rid of NCLB it is going to be an uphill battle. But Mr. Bookwalter is correct if I read him correctly. Any system needs to feel pride in its accomplishments and the administration needs to not be distant. I have always thought that was the secret of success at MPHS. Just check out their band. It says it all.
I am assuming Education Forward is the group Andy brought together? Get rid of NCLB. It has pretty much destroyed education.
@Steve Thomas
That was a really good article. Well worth the time.
Moon:
I didn’t bring Education Forward together, the Mayor appointed it but it is the same idea I proposed in Manassas Next 4-5 years ago. I was seeing the problems back then as my daughter came up through the schools. I only regret that it took so long for the idea to be acted upon.
@Andy,
I think I was giving you credit for something good though, or at least I thought I was.
Its very hard for people from the outside, like me, to see what is called in the trade, ‘the culture of the school.’ In the case of the City, The culture of the school becomes the entire system.
I just know the back drop, like NCLB and it really needs to go. It gives bad practices a place to hang their hat when there should be no place for bad practices within a successful school system.
Like I said, any place can have problems. However, in the City they become magnified because there is no one else to take up the slack. The county can bury it dirt. (and often has)
Many years ago the PWEA executive director O’Cain said one school (unnamed) in the county was going to have to literally burn to the ground to get rid of its bad school culture. It is still standing and frankly, it still has bad school culture after all these many years, from what I am told. Poltergeist?
I am a person without a dog in the fight. I have no agenda, hidden or otherwise. The one person I do know on the school board I barely know, certainly not well enough to call him at home. Perhaps if Powers that Be check the blogs, they would see what the city folks are feeling and saying.
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/207439-federal-workers-get-16-percent-more-than-private-sector-cbo-finds
For full disclosure I’m slated to become a Federale in the very near future.
@marin, are you happy about this? Will you have to wear a uniform? [evil grin]
MH: It is something good and I’m thankful you did it! You’re also right about the culture thing. It’s very very difficult to change without a powerful leader. Powerful leaders are tough to find tho…
@Andy
Powerful leaders are hard to find. You are right. Most of them are in the classroom, leading kids. This doesn’t help the getting beaten down daily part of the equation though.
I could go on and on….
@Moon-howler
I’m of mixed emotion on it but I think it’s the best move right now for career progression and based on the governments effort to insource.
My days of wearing the uniform are over.
I do find it interesting how badly the federales have private sector workers beat. I knew a gap existed but not to that extent.
@Marin, glad you are getting a raise. 🙂
Actually I was being sarcastic about the uniform. Sorry.
When do you start? Or should I say, when do you cross over to the dark side?
“Get rid of NCLB. It has pretty much destroyed education.” The same way welfare has destroyed our society. Good intensions don’t always create good results.
Welfare has not destroyed our society.
You’re right Starry, it only crippled a segment of it!
SA
‘Welfare’ has been around for a long time. Specifically which ‘welfare’ are you referring to. Narrow that some and we might get a good discussion going.
Apparently the Catholic is taking on the Obama administration over the contraception issue. You know, non-catholic are often employed by Catholic organizations. Additionally, plenty of Catholics, rightly or wrongly use contraception.
No one is force feeding contraception to unsuspecting Catholics. I pay for plenty of things I don’t approve of. We don’t get line item vetos in life.
When entire sermons are about politics, perhaps we need to look again at the tax status of churches that continually crawl the wall between church and state.
I would support the Catholic Churches choice to drop all health insurance coverage and benefits for its American employees.
Seperation of Church and State cuts both ways. The State needs to keep out of the inside of a Church.
Marin, if the church is employing people, how does that differ from Ford employing people. The state is treating the church as an employer. The church can jolly well play the employer game the same as everyone else. No one is force feeding contraceptives.
They might not like paying FICA. Do they get to opt out? No.
Frankly I dont like paying state tax to Virginia who now claims abortion clinics have to have the standards of full hospitals, while GI, dentists, podiatrists, urologists and other surgical centers do not have to adhere to this standard. So we all have to do things we don’t want to do. For that matter, I don’t like having to subsidize unnecessary sonograms.
@marinm
Does staying out of churches include staying out of mosques? Or is religious freedom just for the popular religions?
@Morris Davis
Even the heathens need protection from the gubmint, sir.
When one talks about this the topic of the Catholic Church – you need to open the eyes a little – the Catholic Church is more than just a Church – they own and run hospitals, publishing companies, real estate, nursing homes, thrift stores, schools, physician groups and museum’s to name a few – they are a large employer.
Until recently, the RNC offered abortion services through their insurance – I wonder how the rightest of the right feels that their donated money actually subsidized abortions – would love to know how often that procedure was performed under that plan.
Pat, excellent point. The Catholic Church is an extremely large employer. We aren’t just talking about the church on the corner with a few employees.
I have paid for years services that involve body parts only found on males. Do I get to opt out of anything that involves male body parts? Noooooooooo.
The Church needs to provide insurance to its employees and it needs to preach its practices, however wrong they might be, to its parishoners, and hope they take the message. This is the year 2012.
MH & Pat,
And as an employer they can elect to not cover employes with any benefits if the govt forces them into a situation where they can not yield from.
I don’t think this is a fight the govt should pick.
marin – I agree. As an employer, they can choose to not offer health benefits to their employees – they can also choose not to own businesses that are non religious types of business’s. Many employers choose to not offer vision or dental services.
The Catholic Church has supported laws to ban birth control for some time. Many of these laws have been struck down over the years. Would it surprise you to find out that 28 states already require insurance plans to cover birth control? The Administration has already said that plans offered to employees of the actual Church itself are exempt – it is the other businesses that must comply. Birth control is used by many Catholics anyway (just do not tell the Priest during confession 😉 )
What if health plans chose to not cover pregnancies – something many people plan/try to achieve – it is not like there is something wrong with a woman getting pregnant.
I do find it ironic that the institution that wants to reduce abortions also wants to reduce the access to birth control –
I am not comfortable with these comments just standing out here. You have played the victim here and you aren’t one. You threw out something about someone you knew many of us here supported, from a blog, that was one loaded with partisanship. In fact, the original blog entry made some reference to Tim Kaine having crawled out from under a rock and if memory serves me, called him a slim ball.
Did I mention that I question Bubba Brown’s intentions because I remember many of the details of this case and frankly, Brown is painting a somewhat different picture. I remember the case better than most because it involved UVA students and I lived in Virginia. What he (Brown) says is very slanted and his entire essay leads up to the point that Kaine is wrong, rather than stating the facts of the case in a neutral manner.
The bottom line is, Kaine’s remark was taken out of context and applied to shore up Brown’s case. Kaine never said that is why he persued the German transfer. Why? Because it wasnt’t the reason.
You can’t come dish it out and when we fight back, get all wounded. Heat/Kitchen!