Its pretty difficult to justify all what has been caught on camera. Its pretty embarrassing to see our governor making up excuses for private sales after first acting like he didn’t know it happened. The reporter is Jim Hoffer.
Why are there private sales going on? Why is this behavior allowed? This video was filmed a year and a half ago. Nothing has changed to shore up the loophole.
Why aren’t Virginians howling over being the illegal gun capital of the east coast? Probably because they do not know they are.
There is simply no justification for this. We really are a cop killer state.
The media has done a poor job of alerting the public. Once again, people don’t care about what they don’t know. The gunner boys win again when people who favor common sense laws are shut out. In this case, we are shut out by ignorance. Goddard’s film, Living for 32, can’t be rented on Netflix. Just how does one get to see it? It should be widely available. It doesn’t appear to be. I saw it when it first came out. Then it made the rounds and sort of disappeared.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/investigators&id=7841676 – Hoffer report
more gun show footage from Colin Goddard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baPgr_tw79Q
To me, the private sales loophole is unacceptable. All gunsales should go through background checks. No, that won’t stop every one but its a starting place. Law abiding citizens want to be able to own guns but they also want nut jobs and criminals not to be able to. At least make them work for it.
The public have heard all about the so-called loophole. The gun control people have been prattling on about it for years.
Private sales are legal, here and elsewhere.
I’d be happy to have universal background checks accessible by private citizens without having to go through a dealer with a FFL. The funny thing is that the last three “nutjobs” all bought their guns from dealers, with background checks.
Private sales are not a loophole. There is no such thing as the gun show loophole. One can sell privately anywhere in the state.
The only way that you can have force people to transfer firearms with mandatory background checks through an FFL is if you register all the guns as they do in NY or MA. Registration is unacceptable. Having to go through an a FFL can also be an impediment to the exercise of your rights.
In DC, there is ONE FFL. Not just one that will do background checks, but one FFL. And he might be out of business. Since you must be a resident to buy a firearm, that means that DC residents are restricted in their exercise of a right. Or…say the gov’t decides to restrict or slow down the background checks. No sales.
I’m sorry. But you are watching propaganda. There is no such thing as a gun show loophole.
Ah, I see the problem. They are calling what happened “private sales.”
Nope. If those were dealers….then it was NOT a private sale and those dealer broke the law. Private sales is between two people, where the seller is NOT in the BUSINESS of selling firearms. It is illegal.
And if he bought from a dealer…which he apparently did…those people had tables and id badges….HE may have broken the law by not going through a NICS check. Not sure.
I have NO problem with undercover LEO’s checking out gun shows and arresting bad dealers.
But if I want to sell a gun or gift it, especially to someone I know, I’m not getting a BG check. If its to a stranger…I probably would. But I don’t have to.
As for the crime guns in NY…..
Lets look at the data from Mayors Against Illegal Guns, NOT a pro-gun group.
Data is from 2009: http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/downloads/pdf/trace_the_guns_report.pdf
In 2009, just ten states supplied nearly half – 49% – of the “crime guns” that crossed state lines. Sounds horrible, right? Except that only 30% of the guns traced came from out of state. And 51% of that 30% came from OTHER states other than those 10. From Virginia: 2557. Out of 143000+. When reports use percentages to make things look big…look at the numbers.
The report states that Virginia has laws against straw purchases, etc and local LEO can investigate it. It is also illegal for prohibited persons from buy or possessing a firearm.
The average “time to crime” in Virginia’s case is 9 years, more or less. Yep. That sounds like a thriving business. Of course the report is highly slanted to more draconian laws. Bloomberg even broke Virginia law by having people make straw purchases for his organization. Since Bloomberg can’t control crime in his city, he blames everyone else. If it was the guns causing the crime, then WE would have a much higher crime rate.
I’m also curious what “crimes” those guns were found at, because if its just a recovered gun from a civilian in NYC, then its a crime gun, as citizens of NY are not free to own weapons. So “crime gun” is a nice vague, sinister term.
It seems, when compared to the rest of America, leaving out the gun control states that throws the “curve”, Virginia is quite average. We just happen to be the last free state on 95. Other states around NYC, like Pennsylvania, have similar results even though they have some stricter laws.
@Cargosquid
I disagree. I don’t think it is propaganda. Did they buy weapons without a background check? Yes.
Was it illegal to do so? No. Do I think all weapons should have a backgrond check? yes.
Call it whatever you like and I will do the same.
Are you implying that the reporter broke the law?
Is there a video for this?
The reporter did illegally conceal a gun during his video.
I don’t care to ever buy anything from a gun show except Georgia Arms Ammo, and maybe a magazine or two. They’re fun to nose around at, but there are really no good deals and the guns are so-so.
Sounds like the computer shows. There are no real good prices or anything anyone hasn’t seen before. speaking of ….slowie…my friend….when is the new ipad supposed to come out? what new enhancements do you think it will have? What will comd first, the iphone 5 or ipad 4?
@Moon-howler
It was illegal if that was a dealer, as I pointed out. They had a table. They had gun show ID. They appeared to be in the business of selling firearms. That is evidence that they were NOT private sellers. The definition of a private seller is one that is selling one to a few guns, or liquidating a collection, one time only.
These sellers appeared to be dealers. If so, what they did was already illegal. No “loophole” involved. There is no gun show loophole. Private sales can happen anywhere guns are allowed, from parking lots to back yards.
He may state that they were “private” but I see no proof that they were not dealers.
@Cargo, you call it what you want. I will go with the common veracular since I dont have a substitute word for it.
What is it your are trying to protect?
I believe that is what people are trying to get rid of…the private sales of guns at shows.
The guy walking around with the gun with the paper on it…looked private to me. I see no evidence that those dudes were part of the show. If they were, why aren’t doing a background check? How long is the wait? 24 hours?
@SlowpokeRodriguez
I’m finding out that new purchases are not worth it. But since I have some older weapons, large gun shows have the parts that I might need. The Chantilly Gun show is just awesome. Made some a new friend as did darling daughter. Learned some stuff about Walthers. And I got some nice offers….. and darling daughter received a gift of two bricks of .22 for the next time I take her shooting.
But darling daughter has forbidden me from selling HER guns. You know…the ones that are older than I am. The rest…she doesn’t care.
@Moon-howler
What I saw on the video was Goddard and companion buying guns from people that had tables with guns on them and they all had ID badges around their necks. That makes them official and probably actual dealers. IF they sold guns without following the rules, then they should be arrested. As I said, I have no problems with the cops investigating these guys.
NICS background checks take anywhere to a some minutes to a refusal. And most of those are not because of a bad buyer, but because there is a glitch somewhere.
Now…the situation is that the gun control people call private sales the gun show loophole. They’ve stated that “dealers,” which actually has a legal meaning, as described above, sell guns without checks, legally. THAT is wrong. THAT would be illegal.
Private sales are between two individuals, of which the seller is NOT in the gun BUSINESS, but is selling a gun or three. Or liquidating a collection. This is all spelled out in law. Virginia also outlaws straw purchases in which a buy buys firearms with the intention of selling or giving them to prohibited people.
Private sales or transfers (which is a transfer of a firearm as gift or inheritance…in other words, not a sale) are legal throughout Virginia. One does not need to go to a gun show. In states that do demand background checks through an FFL, even inherited guns must be checked before the new owner can take possession. Of course, for this to work, one must have registered guns. In NYC, beneficiaries have been contacted and told to turn in such and such a gun or be charged with a crime.
The one with the paper on it….if we’re talking about the same one…that was a price tag. Most private sellers won’t have price tags.
And, of course, that video is edited to make everything slanted towards their agenda. I saw “Cash and Carry? Yep. Cash and carry.” Um… Cash transactions are not illegal. You can buy from a dealer, get your check done, and walk out in 20 minutes. My background check when I bought my pistol in Norfolk took about 10 minutes. By the time the paperwork was done…all of it was done. Of course that’s the ONLY gun that I officially have.
What Goddard and his groups are trying to do is demonize private sales. They ultimately want registration at the very least. Bans if they can get them.
Unfortunately for them, their side is losing the battle. At the demonstration this weekend in Northern Virginia…they could only get 11 people to protest the NRA. Their donations are down. Their membership, if any, is at an all time low. Almost no one is paying attention to them. They keep losing in the courts and in the legislature. Their agenda is not popular. Crises just increase gun sales. Guns sales are at an record high. Carry permits are skyrocketing. New shooters, carriers, and owners are coming from all walks of life. Women are the fastest growing group of new gun owners. Minorities are quickly realizing that they, too, have the right to keep and bear arms. Firearms are becoming mainstream again. This country started out as a nation of riflemen. Its slowly regaining its heritage.
One of the men is an investigative reporter. I doubt if he has an agenda. There has been too much said about the private sales at gun shows for me not to think there is something to it. I have heard about it for years. Perhaps the way to do away with the talk is to stop the private sales at guns shows.
@Cargosquid
Are you telling me if I go to a gun show and I have no ID, I cannot buy a gun from anyone there?
@Cargosquid
If you are into older stuff, the Chantilly show is a blast. I like to go because I have a soft spot in my heart for the M1 Carbine, and I like to play with the Polish P64s. There’s a guy there with an amazing broomhandle collection. Think you can buy one for some amount just south of the national debt. What I NEED to do is learn how to pickpocket and hang around the Trader Jerry’s table. Guys gain carnal knowledge of each other around that table.
Probably not legally.
No. I’ve stated that there are private sales at gun shows.
The location does not matter. You can go ANYWHERE and buy a gun from a private seller. No ID required.
Of course, its still illegal for a prohibited person or straw buyer to buy a gun.
News flash!! Yard sales are occurring all over this nation with “private dealers” who ate selling property without background checks, government permission or showing ID (not req’d to vote btw)!!
This must stop! Stop the insanity and welcome the boot of government regulation!!
Not surprised I’m wrong…I never tried to do it.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
I didn’t ask about legally. There are always people out in the parking lot. I don’t think they should be there.
Well, I will be blunt. I cant sell you my car or my house privately. There has to be a recording of the sale. This protects everyone. I think gun sales should be recorded.
I feel certain you don’t so we can just agree to disagree. I even think transfers should be recorded somewhere. I sure keep paperwork on a transfer to me just in case it ever comes to that because the person who gave me the gun is dead.
@Marinm
I don’t think it is appropriate to sell guns at a yard sale. It should be obvious why. If it isn’t, then there’s another reason why not to do it.
@Cargosquid
I think private sales need to tighten up. That’s just me and it doesn’t threaten me.
But I don’t see little tiny G-men crawling out from under every rock. When I closed my eyes I see little tiny Cuccinelli’s with little tiny….nah..never mind that part….crawling out from every rock with car boots for clinic parking lots and waving ultra-sound probes.
I guess its all what scares you.
@Moon-howler
You REALLY need to cut down on the absinthe. That stuff will make you see things. I’m sure that you were going to talk about Cuccinelli’s hands and feet.
I’m curious about why anyone objects to gun registration. Is it the fear that the feds are going to know who owns what? That if laws change, they’ll confiscate your guns?
Registration is a non-starter. It will have ZERO impact on violence or crimes.
@Moon-howler
I wasn’t talking about selling guns at a yard sale but I have no issue with it. I was talking about how all those citizens are selling their personal property without government regulation, identification and license. OMG! We need the police to crack down on people selling used blenders to one another!!
Craigslist is just an open weapons market to the masses!! By god you can by a butane torch without a letter from your general practioner!! What has the world come to!!
Everything that ‘gun control’ persons have brought up these last few days assume lawful citizens are criminals and treat them as such.
Registration always leads to confiscation, eventually. Furthermore, registration does nothing to prevent crime, shootings, etc. Only the law-abiding will follow it. Only those registered with be affected.
The actual Constitutional responsibility to be armed is to provide for the security of a free state. Just because the state no longer uses a militia, and the likelihood of needing firearms to defend our rights might be rare, does not mean that the government should know where all the guns are. Just because the current government isn’t tyrannical, does not mean that future ones will not be. And I’m not just talking about the Feds. Local gov’t’s can be tyrannical. Until recently, NC’s laws advocated the seizing of any weapons during disasters. New Orleans law enforcement was illegally confiscating weapons. New York, Chicago, and New Jersey does it all the time.
@marinm
How’d you kill someone with a blender?
@punchak
Strangulation by cord.
Asphyxiation by small part lodged in throat.
Electrocution by fringed cord or improper grounding.
And of course it’s really, really sharp.
http://www.cpsc.gov/library/hazard_housewares.pdf
@marinm
Says who? serial numbers are good for recovery of guns as well as knowing where a particular piece of equipment comes from. In my brother’s case, it will help him get replacements. He can now prove he owned guns x, y, z.
I don’t fear the govt nearly as much as you do. I have been around about twice as long as you have and they haven’t done anything bad to me yet. Its been pretty much live and let live.
Punchak, did you have plans for someone???? Just curious. You have told us how to do someone in with a frying pan, as I recall.
@Moon-howler
WOOHOO!!
Go Bloomy
http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/24/mayor-bloomberg-says-cops-should-go-on-s
New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg told CNN’s Piers Morgan last night that he doesn’t “understand why police officers across this country don’t stand up collectively and say we’re going to go on strike, we’re not going to protect you unless you, the public, through your legislature, do what’s required to keep us safe.”
I think Bloomy brings a sharpness into this issue: They want to take our guns away.
Maybe just yours, Marin.
I don’t feel he wants to take mine away.
@Moon-howler
That might be right. The idea of a liberty minded latino probably scares the crap out of him.
I think he may want to put me in my place.
Damnit. According to Huffington Bloomy is already walking back the comments. Stay strong Bloomy!!
I can see two scenarios. First, you’d have to expose the rotating blade. Second, you could make someone so many margaritas that they get alcohol poisoning.
@marinm
I would think that any person with a restraining order against a spouse or other person might want the court to be aware of any guns registered to that person. It just might prevent a crime.
@Cargosquid
How do you think these militias would be formed? Who would authorize them? The state? Would you approve of having them if the Dems swept the next several elections? Would right-wingers then organize their own militias? You can see where this is going and it isn’t good.
No one has ever come for my guns and I don’t fear that they will. Is this the reason people stockpile them? So they can hide a few in various places in case the G-men come knocking on the door?
Typically the anti-gun crowd has turned the discusion to banning or registering guns in order to prevent crime — essentially by law abiding citizens and away from the constitutional issues, the right to defend onesself and right to defend one’s community. The problem is that there are simply no statistics that suggest that crime increases with the number of guns. In fact the opposite is true (statistically). Even a total ban would not reduce guns among criminals – they cannot stop people from comming across the border.
More interesting to me is the anti-gun argument that fewer guns would prevent more tragedies. In the book More Guns, Less Crime (google it) I found it interesting that the vast majority of gun crimes are committed against and among people who know each other. The problem here, according the the author, is that this includes, for example, gang and drug crimes, which dramatically skews the data and leaves the real number of innocent tragedies in question.
Blue, my problem with what you just wrote is that I am unclear what YOU mean when you say banning or registering guns.
When I say banning guns, I might mean I won’t want the average person on the street to be able to buy an AK-47. You might mean that no one anywhere for any reason should be able to buy a gun. When I say registering a gun, I might mean that when I buy a new gun, somewhere the serial number is recorded that I own the gun, which I wouldn’t mind doing, any more than I mind recording the deed to my house or my vin number for my car.
You might mean something else. I also expect you probably would categorize me as part of ” the anti gun crowd” even though I am a gun owner and also not anti gun.
I just believe that the 2nd amendment doesn’t give unlimited rights and it doesn’t specify which arms.
@marinm
lawful citizens are criminals? Is that an oxymoron?
I think that what this person, me, thinks is that some people who present themselves as law-abiding citizens aren’t really and probably shouldn’t be turned loose with a gun.
You are more trusting than I am. You don’t trust governments. I don’t trust the rank and file person. I guess its all in one’s background and what their life experience is.
@marinm
both answers could be right. I don’t follow Bloomy too closely. he’s a little too rich for my blood.
There is no constitutional ban on owning any weapon, bows, knives semi or fully automatic -period. The problem is the moving targets about registering certain weapons due to their mechanics and, increasingly, because of the way they simply look (the assult weapon issue). Registering a car or a deed is designed to let the government assist the citizen in establishing ownership and the right of sale. For most of us, these are our big ticket assets. That is not the government’s intent when it comes to registering guns.
Guns and other weapons provide a sense of security. They are also fun to hunt and competitively target shoot with. Instead of focusing on the gun, let’s focus instead on the crimes committed with guns – a very small percent of overall crime. And while we are on the subject of crime, we also need to talk a lot more about good samaritan laws to permit gun owners to intercede in crimes by using a gun which is not adequately covered by the Stand Your Ground Laws. We need people capable of stopping a gang rape before the police arrive and the only whay that is likely to happen is if armed citizens can shoot the buggers without fear –of legal issues.
“We need people capable of stopping a gang rape before the police arrive and the only whay that is likely to happen is if armed citizens can shoot the buggers without fear –of legal issues.”
Amen. Thats a gun regulation that I can support.
“lawful citizens are criminals? Is that an oxymoron?”
We treat them as such when we attempt to regulate guns by registration under the guise that it’ll reduce crime.
“You are more trusting than I am. You don’t trust governments. I don’t trust the rank and file person.”
Which vision is closer to the Founders? 😉
Dig them up and ask them. They trusted neither. Check out why we have an electoral college while you are at it.
The electoral college is easy.
Because small states wanted to be equal to big states, and rural areas to urban. Without the electoral college, candidates could just campaign in the largest cities and get a majority.
See y’all…I’m gonna go drink Hurricanes in New Aw’lins and sun on the beach in Panama City.
Woohoo! Vacation, here I come!
They also didn’t think the common man had enough sense to elect a president. They didn’t trust commoners.