These people make me Prince William Proud. 6 voting machines for how many thousand people? Just under 5,000 registered voters. These folks were stuck here until 11 pm. How many had to leave without casting their vote?
The people in these lines are the faces of REAL America, REAL Virginia and REAL Prince William County.
Shame on the county for not providing adequate voting equipment.
2,802 Votes were cast at River Oaks Precint. 2,373 of these votes were cast for President Obama.
What can be done to ensure that voters never again have to be stuck in lines this long to vote? This incident is a county-wide disgrace. Where does the buck stop? Who do we voice our outrage to?
A big thank you to all the people who chose to remain in that long line in order to vote!
Virginia needs to allow early voting and more absentee voting to help alleviate this problem.
This is a disgrace. There are shorter lines in Third World Countries.
River Oaks was not the only place. I was looking at 5-6 places last night around midnight that had not posted returns.
There needs to be a back up plan. Who is in charge of allocating voting machines? Is it PWC? State election board? who?
“Where does the buck stop? Who do we voice our outrage to?”
Uhh, according to Frank Principi (D), Melissa Peacor.
heh, heh, heh
Well, I’d say the Board. I think they may have turned down improvement requests. Sort of like fundIng FEMA for infrequent occurrences.
Heh heh heh
I am sure Melissa could direct the concern to the appropriate party.
Who delivers the machines and where are they stored?
Does PWC get any help from the state election board with the purchase of machines? Who makes this decision?
Can machines be moved from one place to another if needed? For instance, if extra machines are needed at River Oaks and Evergreen is closed and counted, can those machines be transported to RO? I obviously don’t know anything about it.
Once ever 4 years is frequent. An alternative would be to make early voting more available. I think 30,000 people did the absentee ballot thing.
Who sets those rules?
@Lyssa
Why would the board turn down improvement requests? I saw Frank trying to pass the blame down the old kick me ladder.
I just don’t understand the process and who gets the final bill.
That’s art of the budget process. They review requests and see if they fit in their tax plan.
A good reason why Election Day should be a day off from work.
What I don’t understand is why it is like this at some voting locations, but then others in the same area have no waits. I vote at Weems Elementary School in the City of Manassas and I never have to wait. I waited 2 minutes to vote this year and it is like that every year.
Sorry about the all the links, if you go down the list in order it will bring you to the last link (5)which is the VA election laws found in LIS – it reviews how many voting machines are required (note the word “at least” and “the local governing body”) …the other links have some nifty info too.
1. http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/ElectionLaw.html
2. http://townhall.virginia.gov/L/gdocs.cfm?agencynumber=132
3. http://townhall.virginia.gov/L/ViewGDoc.cfm?gdid=4328
4.http://townhall.virginia.gov/L/GetFile.cfm?File=C:\TownHall\docroot\GuidanceDocs\132\GDoc_SBE_4328_v5.pdf
5. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+24.2-627
§ 24.2-627. Mechanical and electronic voting or counting devices; number required.
A. The governing body of any county or city which adopts for use at elections mechanical or direct electronic voting systems shall provide for each precinct at least the following number of voting devices:
In each precinct having not more than 750 registered voters, 1;
In each precinct having more than 750 but not more than 1,500 registered voters, 2;
In each precinct having more than 1,500 but not more than 2,250 registered voters, 3;
In each precinct having more than 2,250 but not more than 3,000 registered voters, 4;
In each precinct having more than 3,000 but not more than 3,750 registered voters, 5;
In each precinct having more than 3,750 but not more than 4,500 registered voters, 6;
In each precinct having more than 4,500 but not more than 5,000 registered voters, 7.
Also of interest should be the last sentence following code section – (only copied in part):
§ 24.2-642. Inoperative equipment.
A. When any voting or counting device becomes inoperative in whole or in part while the polls are open, the officers of election shall immediately notify the electoral board. If possible, the electoral board shall dispatch a qualified technician to the polling place to repair the inoperative device. All repairs shall be made in the presence of two officers of election representing the two political parties or, in the case of a primary election for only one party, two officers representing that party. If the device cannot be repaired on site, the electoral board shall, if possible, substitute a device in good order for the inoperative device, and at the close of the polls the record of both devices shall be taken, and the votes shown on their counters shall be added together in ascertaining the results of the election.
Thank you very much mrsj. This is a good starting place.
My logic tells me that River Oaks was under capacity with machines. I doubt if that precinct had 100% turn out. It looks like they were probably down 1 machine.
We also need to take into account the democraphics. Working neighborhoods should get more than a precinct with a bunch of retirees. Retirees can go during the day. Working people can’t and they often work jobs where if you aren’t at work, you don’t get paid.
I watched again and corrected 4 to 6 machines for just under 5,000 registered voters.
Who IS that man who says that things are disorganized and that is to be expected? What an A-hole.
The SBE site shows River Oaks in January had 3,602 “active” voters in April it went to 3,751 and the highest number of “active” voters went to 4,405 in October with the in-actives they are over 5,000.
http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/2012RegistrationStats.html
It is looking like that precinct is reaching its capacity already. In any case that many hours in line is unacceptable no matter what the cause and hopefully there will be changes, I know other locations had issues too.
I think the amendments might have slowed the process down a bit too, just a guess based on what I saw when I voted.
I am not sure what those amendments really say. What a bunch of gobbledeegoop.
They were written to not be understood. Handing out copies of those amendments with a simple explanation would be helpful for all polls.
Are the machines assigned based on active voters or registered voters?
What can we do to ensure this situation never reoccurs? I don’t know where to start.
This is where I start chest thumping and say…I am alerting people to the problem. (cop out, Moon!)
Moon, call the county registrar’s office for answers. I’m sure they have this down to a science. Decision-makers should have listened to their recommendations.
In the city, when I went for election official training, the registrar said for the Dean Community, which was at or close to 5,000 registered voters, they had NINE machines and prepared well. Also, since the election, they’ll be looking to see if the city needs to add a new district because of the number of registered voters in that community.
Even for absentee voting in the city, more than 800 people voted in the last week before the election, and the city registrar planned well with THREE machines at the registrar’s office.
The movie was excellent, especially the election official who stood at the end of the line and then closed the poll. As weary as the voters were, he and other officials had to work at least another two to three hours closing out.
clearly the elected board members want PWC to be the cheapest county around – place to live, meeting only minimal standards, minimum employees, minimum salary, minimum cost per pupil, minimum standard for class size, minimal parks and recreation facilities, minimal numbers of police and firefighters.
Why wouldn’t the board only want minimum number of voting machines? As citizens why would we expect other than minimal capabilities from our elect officials? PWC – most minimal in the millennium.
I don’t know about here in PWC but in some counties you can still mark up a paper ballot and they can scan it in. They had five machines at our polling place but one had broken down. A “qualified technician” was supposedly on the way but during the hour+ we had to wait, he/she did not show up. It sounds like they had the minimum number of machines and if there were only 2,802 votes cast, they had more than enough machines. It may well have bogged down because people had not read the two constitutional amendments before they came to vote and stood at the voting machine reading them. I think this is a mole hill that someone is trying to turn into a mountain.
I voted at Buckland Mills where the results were fairly evenly divided. They had 7 voting machines and more than 2,550 people voted. If you assume a constant flow of voters over the 11 hours of voting that means each machine had to process about 35 voters per hour. Luckily, unlike in many other states, we didn’t have a lot on the ballot. Still, my daughter and I were in line for 1 hour and 45 minutes. There has to be a better way.
That is way too long. We aren’t a third world country.
The county needs to double those voting machines.
I highly recommend voting absentee, especially after hearing all the horror stories.
@George S. Harris
Would you say that if you waited 4 or 5 hours to vote?
I would be raising hell.
@ Moon–I suppose I might bitch a little but voting is our most sacred right as citizens. I’ve stood in lines almost that long to eat but that is another story. In 2008, the last data I could find, voting machines cost about $3,500 each. I note in the local fish wrap (News and Messenger) that three things contributed most to long lines–not enough computers or volunteers to operate them for voter verification, people standing at the voting machine to read the constitutional amendments and perhaps not enough voting machines. Interestingly, poll workers were giving people the opportunity to read the proposed amendments before they got to the voting machine and organizations put out voting guides–the best I saw was the one published by the Virginia League of Women Voters. Someone suggested we double the number of voting machines we have in PWC. While I don’t know how many and don’t want to take the time to find out but if we wanted 1,000 more machines that would be $3,500,000 AT LEAST. Maybe a way to fix it is to have each blog respondent put their money where their outh is and contribute $3,500 toward the cause. So I say again–someone is trying desperately to make a tiny mole hill into a large mountain.
@George, those kinds of lines were found in many places around the county. Once again, Prince William County goes on the cheap and responds to the bare minimum rather than applying best practice. Its all how you want to look at it. This is why we are always going to be the ugly step child of Fairfax County and are rapidly becoming the repository for the used garments of Loudoun County.
Not all precincts need additional machines but some sure do. They should be purchased. There are about 100,000 voters in PWC. That’s about $35 bucks a voter if I am not mistaken. I will glady pay my fair share. Put it on my tab.
@Voter
I couldn’t agree more. I’m looking forward to the day I see “Entering Prince William County” in my rear view mirror. Too bad – it could have been so much more than mediocre.
For many people getting to the polls after work was the only option – most employers don’t consider voting a reason to miss work.
Working people need extended hours, especially those who have to commute. Many people have jobs where they don’t get paid if they aren’t there.
I would like to see Virginia make early voting easier or extend poll hours till 9 pm in areas like ours.
The story in the Washington Post seems to suggest that there are racial ties to this precinct.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-state-of-nova/post/video-long-lines-at-prince-william-polling-place-in-dumfries-create-unrest-outrage/2012/11/08/61270b2e-29c2-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_blog.html?hpid=z6
I don’t think it is racial. I think it is an example of once again, Prince William County being cheap so the Chairman can brag about how low the taxes are.
something that perhaps I had never really thought about is 5000 voters isn’t equal to 5000 voters. If your 5000 voters include neighborhoods with lots of stay at home moms or seniors voters who are around during the day, and can vote then, then staggered voting is do-able and generally happens. Anyone who can go during the slow periods of 10 to 4 generally does.
Working people are the ones who get caught in this kind of mess. Many of the working class people don’t have jobs that smile kindly on taking off to vote. Working people often don’t get paid if they aren’t at work. They need to race to the polls to get their votes in before the polls close at 7. In this area, that is often a difficult task, because commuter traffic. As we all know, during rush hour it can take you an hour to drive a mile. If you are coming in from DC or Dulles, it can take hours.
Solution? Virginia needs to allow counties, especially in Northern Virginia, to apply for a later time to close the polls. In our area, 9 pm seems more realistic. Some sleepy little town in the valley could keep the regular 6-7 13-hour of opportunity open while those areas who need longer times would be allowed to accommodate their voters. Local election boards know the patterns of their voters best.
Meanwhile, PWC once again needs to get off the cheap. Being cheap and being last isn’t a good thing. PWC always seems to be competing for the cheap award.
Those in charge were desperate to find poll workers. Doing that chore is truly a labor of love, yet the poll workers are looked at as “of course they should be there,”
Before election day, they must attend a rather lengthy training session. On D-day my daughter left home at 4:45 AM, was on her feet all day, not allowed to leave the premises until the voting has ended. Polls close at 7 PM, but anyone in line at that time must be allowed to vote. Imagine what it would be like, should the polls stay ope until 9 PM!
The results are tallied, checked once and checked again. With luck it might be done by 9 PM, but sometimes a lot later than that. For a day like that, the pay amounts to $100,
taxable.
A lot of finger pointing is going on over the long waits in Prince William County polling places this past Election Day. Apparently some folks had to wait up to five hours to vote.
Accusations are being made about voter suppression, particularly in areas with a high African American population, such as the River Oaks area. Then there is the mysterious $350,000 that may or may not have been submitted to the County Board of Supervisors by the County Electoral Board to buy more voting machines. Was it submitted? Was it withdrawn? What is the real story?
Jeremy Borden of the Washington Post first raised the issue that an Electoral Board request for $350,000 was withdrawn. County Supervisor Frank Principi joined the battle claiming the request for $350,000 never made it past the county staff. In the November 8, News and Messenger Letters to the Editor, Mr. Rick Duflocq claims County Executive Melissa Peacor nixed the request for the $350,000. And finally, Rick Hendrix, Vice Chairman of the Prince William County Electoral Board says there had been no request for $350,000 for voting machines. So what is the truth? Will we ever know?
There is one thing for certain—there were 31,000 more registered voters in the County than there were in 2008 and no additional voting machines were available for these voters. In addition to solving the mystery of the $350,000 it seems to me we need to find some members for the Electoral Board who can do some relatively simple math.
I found the article confusing, especially about following the money request.
Details about the money request do seem mysterious.
Do machines have to be allocated to precincts based on number of registered voters alone? Could the demographics be taken into account as well? Census data should tell which areas have older, retired residents with more flexible schedules and which have poorer residents who may be those who line up at the end of the work day because they may have less flexibility in their jobs.
@Censored
Excellent question. If no one answers here maybe you could write to the election board and ask and share their answer?
That is a critical question.
I worked in several precincts on election day and I can tell you that the PWC election officers are some of the most experienced and professional around. I can also tell you that almost every crew requested more machines than they got – it appeared as if everyone got shorted by 20-30%. It would have been far worse if the officers weren’t so good at their jobs.
That is great to hear. Thanks for the positive report, Cato.
It was absurd. I voted at Stonewall Middle and it was a roughly 2 hour wait at every point through the day. Voting is not supposed to be an endurance contest.
Ah you are in my old precinct. Was voting in the cafeteria or in the library?
I am some sort of premonition and for the very first time ever, I applied for an absentee ballot. I voted by mail. I highly recommend doing it.
You are right Rick, voting shouldn’t be an endurance test. Alternative voting should be more widespread and easier to do. Also people shouldn’t have to lie to get to be able to do it. I didn’t have to lie to do it by mail. In the past, I have to go outof town to vote early.
If you want to vote in PWC, bring a snack and an adult diaper.