Since the election, I have heard “illegals” a little less out of my Republican sources. I have noticed that Elena has not had to issue one correction on this blog. However, I don’t think people still get it.
It’s going to take a little more than trying to lure Latinos in. It’s going to take real acceptance. I am not sure how some Republicans are going to be able to do this. As long as the animosity is there, the GOP will continue to lose Latino votes.
Just thinking back to Prince William County over the past 5 years, what political party spear-headed the effort to run all the “illegals” out of Prince William County when it was the “in” thing to do? Rule of Law Resolution? There was a War on Latinos, regardless of what anyone says. People groused about the brown faces at the bus stop (see video). They groused about Spanish being spoken in the stores. Our own BOCS listened to 12 hours of citizens time and still voted yes to one of the most restrictive immigration ordinances in the United States without so much as an apology. Up until recently, Corey Stewart bragged about it. Will he be bragging now he has seen the hand-writing on the wall? I doubt it. In fact, the next time I see Corey I wouldn’t be surprised if he weren’t wearing a poncho, a big hat, and sporting a big mustache, all while swilling a margarita since he wants to be the next Lt. Gov.
As I look around the local blogs, I still see some of that good ole Latino hate we have always seen. Some people will never learn. However, Elena and I have files chock full of nasty comments that have been left. We will make sure the GOP elephant doesn’t forget. The local stripes aren’t going to be so easy to change.
There is a real dilemma going on here. Either people change their rhetoric or they continue to lose elections. PWC wasn’t a bellwether county for nothing. Wake up people. To every person who loaded up, ready to fire 5 years ago. Beware of unintended consequences. How do you like the seeds of what you sowed now?
Review 9500 Liberty (free)
At a time when low-doc and no-doc loans were commonplace and foreclosures loomed in the future, the BOCS and nativists guaranteed one thing – that our county, equity, and pocketbooks would suffer disproportionately more than surrounding counties by running off Hispanic homeowners and renters. By tweaking Neighborhood Services and zoning many of the complaints that the City Council and BOCS received could have been handled without the xenophobic hysteria.
Repeat nationally what happened locally and you drive away those who could have been the Republican Party’s natural base.
Go blog hopping and look at the tacky remarks still. Those aren’t going to be gethering and new voting recruits.
Actually, the biggest objection to the Republicans by the Latinos, according to the surveys of Latinos is not the stance on illegal immigration, but the GOP idea of reduced government and the attraction of the Democrats spending on a larger welfare “safety net.””
So..no. The GOP will not get the Latino vote as long as the Latino community wants to be more dependent on the government.
What right wing rag told you that, Cargo? Most of the accounts I have read would agree that illegal immigration isn’t the biggest issue. The biggest issue is the economy. Latinos in general don’t think that the GOP plan is best for the economy.
The biggest issue seems to be the built in hostility about Latinos. Actually you just proved my point with that dog whistle remark about welfare and living off the government. Most of the Latinos I know are hard working people who don’t live off the government. To suggest that they do is why they don’t vote GOP.
@Cargosquid
Many in that community were directly affected by the housing crash and need that safety net. Once housing rebounds that may not be a primary concern.
Hmmm…. It seems that Censored is contradicting Moon.
So.. about that safety net…NOTICE, I did not denigrate them for wanting it. Poorer people like safety nets. And while your experience may not show that…a great number of surveys stated what was important…mainly out west. I think it was an after action Los Angeles report gloating on why the GOP would never get the Latino vote. They may be conservative, they said, but that alone isn’t enough to get them from the Democrats since the GOP is against having such a large safety net.
@Cargosquid
Why do you think Latinos want to be more dependent? Appreciating a temporary safety net when the job market crashed does not necessarily imply wanting dependency. The Latino population probably works harder than most Anglos.
Don’t think their objection to the GOP is merely rooted in economics though. The GOP has talked too much trash about immigrants – just as it has about other minorities, women, the disabled, government employees, unions. It’s come across as a party too stupid to realize what its doing. It’s economic message, which might in the past have appealed to a broader segment of society, even comes across as “screw you, middle class!”
A token Marco Rubio won’t trick people into rushing to embrace the GOP. It’s an old Southern white guys’ party. The electoral map shows this. It’s only strength outside the South is the midwest with its small towns. (As more outsiders move into North and South Dakota to take advantage of the natural gas boom the politics may change there.)
Moon’s subject is that the Re-pubs still don’t get it. OK Re-pubs, let’s, for the moment, assume that your assertion that Latinos, Blacks, Women, Asians, the Educated Elite, Unionist, government workers, retirees, and the career Democrats all voted blue this time because they like Government largesse. Now what? If that’s true and these folks will continue to vote for their own personal well being, and that voting bloc gets bigger and bigger every year, what part can the GOP play in the future ????
@BS
That’s getting to be a pretty big crowd.
The top 2% have total control over the government if they just decided to not pay their federal income tax for one year. Just like you can’t round up and deport 12 million people you also can’t put all the 2% behind bars, which if you did would kill the economy for sure. At some point the 2% will come to realize that as the government keeps pounding on them for their main source of tax revenue.
@SA, let’s say for the sake of argument, that they all rebelled. How does that effect the quality of their lives? Will they give up being free Americans over having to pay a little more money? At what point do they even notice? If you are filthy rich, What’s another million? They think of millions like I do hundreds.
@ 2nd Alamo: I could then see the government Federalizing the top 2%’s industries and other assets to put down that rebellion. I don’t think the richies are all in for that!
A normal fare on Amtrak up the East Coast is $93 dollars. Beginning the Wednesday before Christmas and through New Years the fare for that same trip is $178. Business in the USA.
Ahhh … more advice from our liberal friends on winning elections. Clearly the next step is to legalize all the illegals and then count on them to be conservative. Maybe not …. This push seems more like a giant trap to extend the dependency class and in the process create two million new democrats.
@Kelly,
Suit yourself. Keep making the crappy remarks and see if latinos come flocking to the GOP. The fact that you just had to write “illegals” just to show me you still could speaks volumes and proves my point. I could also be a ****head (your choice) and redact it (because I can) but it is more valuable to my point leaving it up.
The point is, it doesn’t matter about status. If you are Latino and there is a chance someone could start demanding to see your papers, what difference does it make? To natural born citizens its not easy proving your citizenship on a dime.
As for liberals providing advice, thank you will suffice. You obviously haven’t been able to do it on your own without pissing off a lot of voters.
No advice is offered here Kelly. Just pointing out that other Americans with different aspirations and needs live here with white Southerners. The GOP, not your liberal friends, need to understand that and morph into something that will attract more support. Demonizing new arrivals, minimizing the contributions of the LGBT community, undercutting the efforts of government workers, criticizing professional educators, ridiculing science and education, etc. ain’t goin to work.
I am a white southerner and so is Mrs. BSinVA, thank you very much. 🙄
Demonizing new arrivals….really? So the GOP demonizes all immigrants instead of objecting to illegal immigration? Minimizing the contribution of the LGBT community? So objecting to same sex marriage is the same as that? Ok, then. Undercutting the efforts of government workers…. Undercutting? Strange word to use…How so? Criticizing professional educators…so these people are supposed to be exempt from criticism? Even when stupidity and politicization is revealed? Its more of a criticism of the PUBLIC unions that protect incompetency and corruption. Ridiculing science and education…. I’ll give you that one if one is talking about creationism, but will amend that the apparently religious belief of AGW by the left is the same. Not that its wrong but that it brooks no debate. And having seen some of the education fads….the conservatives are ridiculing GOVERNMENT education..not education.
Bear all of the above in mind that I’m in school to become a teacher and my mother was a teacher for decades.
I have said over and over again that AGW is a trigger word. I am tired of reading it and said so. It is a dog whistle and it pisses this old dog off and this old software off.
You have tried to debunk BS but it isn’t working. Let’s just go back to Latinos. When called on the carpet, all critics immediately race to the illegal immigrant argument. However, that isn’t going to protect anyone anymore. We live in Prince william County and we have seen the ugly…and it doesn’t get much uglier than what we witnessed here. No, it isn’t just about legal status. Elena and I and probably many others can go back through our files and literally find 100s of remarks that just aren’t about legal status. THAT’s the problem. Everyone seemed to be an ‘illegal.’ In Prince William, ‘illegal’ became synonymous in daily speech and writing with Latino.
Have you watched 9500 Liberty? I put the post up. You will recognize lots of the folk in the film.
The GOP is always after someone. Commies, ‘queers,’ teachers, teachers unions, unions. Oh wait, that was in my film I just watched. Let me start over…
Same sex marriages, teachers unions, teachers, climate change, evolution, secular people…..blah blah blah.
As for public unions, get over it. Hopefully when you teach, you wouldn’t consider going in the classroom without the tort insurance provided by VEA. Its worth your dues. No one in their right mind would. If you think that VEA has any real control over how school systems are run, then that is simply ignorant. They also don’t protect the incompetent. They see to it that you get due process. I would hope everyone would get that.
Lastly, the fact that conservatives would ridicule government education astounds me. Why? If you are so freaking rich you can send your kids to a fancy academy fine but to laugh at everyone who goes to public school? How tacky.
@Cargosquid
Moderation? No links.
Explanation in response. trigger word.
Cargo: you are still not getting it,
@Moon-howler
Amen. In PWC a few years ago the xenophobes didn’t give a damn about the difference between people with legal papers and those without them. One would have thought that they had had X-ray vision and could have seen the papers (or lack thereof) in anyone’s pocket the way they carried on. It was embarrassing to be a PWC resident.
This demonization of the “new” folks is as old as our country. The Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the Chinese and others were all demonized and blamed for the country’s problems before they were accepted and embraced.
All I can say to Cargo, Kelly and crew is, keep thinkin’ what you’re thinkin’, and your tent will be so small that not even all the old white rednecks will fit into it! Jim DeMint forever!!
Since you guys seem to have all the answers….and seem so worried about the health of the Republican party….how, specifically, should they change their message? Without changing core principles? Because I know that you don’t want them to become Democrat party-lite, right? What would be the point of that?
Maybe American culture has moved too far away from the Republican party. It that has happened…congratulations Democrat party. You won.
Cargo, I am not sure there is an answer. I have been thinking about it all day. I can only handle one benchmark at a time though.
The pendulum swings…but for now.
Thank you very much.
@BSinVA
Of course, if you won….and everything goes to hell…..its ALL your fault.
@middleman
If the populace won’t vote for Republicans because they don’t agree with Republican ideas/principles…so be it. Like H.L. Mencken said, “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
Well, if the people want Democratic party progressive ideas in charge of their lives…. so be it.
Apparently they do. I do.
I was thinking though…the Republicans know that demographics really don’t support the planks in their platform. You can’t get enough people to vote for them. So, let’s just take the Latino situation….
How hard would it be to enact a new Immigration Law that deals with the situation at hand and to stop the abject meanness that has been directed at Latinos?
If the meanness stops, I expect after a while you all have some planks that might appeal to many families.
But today in my travels, I still saw more meanness. It isn’t about offering Tacos. Its about changing the rhetoric and making legal immigration possible for Hispanics.
I don’t think it’s question of whether Americans agree with Republican principles- I think they (and I!) do. They just don’t agree with the religious and corporate extremists that have control of the party right now. Remember, Republican’s endorsed and/or passed the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act, the Interstate Highway System, the National Park System, Welfare Reform Act with Bill Clinton, and initiated the Obamacare and Cap and Trade concepts. Not one of them could go NEAR any of those ideas now…
The bullies have control right now. Beck, Savage and Limbaugh seem to be party spokespersons. Bill Kristol has been vilified and called a liberal.
The big tent must be erected and it must be heralded.
Unless the R’s are willing to do this, they will be relegated to being a minority.
I certainly don’t agree with most of the R platform.
“In PWC a few years ago the xenophobes didn’t give a damn about the difference between people with legal papers and those without them.”
Funny thing about that. We wanted to ask to be sure first when there was suspicion. You know, like when they can’t speak a lick of English, which is a requirement for naturalization, but even the police were prevented from doing so.
SA, people can be here legally from other countries for their entire lives. Naturalization is not mandatory.
People in this county didn’t want to ask, they wanted to intimidate. Then there is the story about people in this one house in my neighborhood being vilified. They didn’t speak English, they played salsa music too loud and had “Mexican” looking trucks parked out front.
One of our friends payed them a call and the family was Puerto Rican. American citizens by birth. Oooops.
Actually, I don’t know how we determine if someone we encounter on a casual basis can ‘speak a lick of English’ or not. People aren’t required to tell the average Joe their status.
Well there you go. I guess the US is therefore incapable of identifying and removing illegal immigrants since we don’t have the authority or the means to do it. We just have to ‘get over it’ I guess. Now how about telling that to the thousands who are waiting in line to enter the country legally. If you’re all about fairness, then how does that work for you?
There is a plan in place to remove criminal illegal immigrants from the county IF they have committed a crime.
I would hope you don’t think you have the right to just walk up to anyone and demand to see their papers. I have none to show you if you chose me to ask.
@ 2nd: How about more funding for the ICE? Beef that department up, give them and the Federal prosecutors and courts the resources they need to enforce the Federal laws.
@BS then you get to hear the mighty three-cornered roar of STOP SPENDING!!
You had a good idea but everything is on the cheap these days.
Fix it but stop spending. cognitive dissonance.
@middleman
Its a pendulum. And the government has taken those acts and run with them. The EPA, instead of just ensuring clean air and water now infringes on private property rights. The Highway Act has now allowed the feds to control things like state drinking ages. The Welfare Reform Act’s work requirements is now gutted. Conservatives did not initiate ObamaCare. And the GOP did not vote for it. And Cap and Trade is opposed by conservatives.
Just because the Republicans, as opposed to Democrats, advocate more government control does not make it a good idea. Progressives are in both parties. Limited government is supposed to be the watchword.
@Cargosquid
Cargo- Go back and read my post again. I said conservatives initiated the CONCEPTS of Obamacare and Cap and Trade, which they did. They oppose them now, which was my point…
Well Moon, the conservative entries continue to prove your original point–they really don’t get it. Wait until the 2014 elections, maybe then they wii get it. ‘Nuf said!
See… this is what you don’t get.
The conservatives don’t necessarily equal GOP or vice versa.
But speaking strictly of the the GOP….how exactly is the GOP supposed to change and still be the GOP?
@George S. Harris
If enough people disagree with the GOP principles and platforms…that’s not a sign that the GOP is wrong and needs to change. That’s a sign that the populace has moved more liberal and leftward and complete societal change needs to be enacted.
If the GOP changes its platform solely to get votes, it becomes the Democrat-lite party.
If the GOP loses…it loses. And if the GOP loses because it DOESN’T become more conservative and provide a difference to the Democrats… we’ll point it out. And we conservatives will sadly watch the US decline.
On the other hand, back when I was a Republican, I would not have been one if that platform had been there.
@Moon-howler
so, what was on the platform then? What year was that? I’m curious.
I considered myself a REpublican for many years. I stopped considering myself one sometime in the mid to late 80s. I wasn’t a pure Republican. I would vote really for the person but….it generally was Republican.
The sole purpose of a political party is to get its members elected. That’s why voters from both sides have to occasionally hold their noses when they vote for their own party’s candidates. If the GOP cannot get their chosen ones elected under their current platform, then they will change their platform planks until they start have winning tickets. Teaparty say goodbye to the GOP, you are being evicted.
From Cargo: “If enough people disagree with the GOP principles and platforms…that’s not a sign that the GOP is wrong and needs to change. That’s a sign that the populace has moved more liberal and leftward and complete societal change needs to be enacted.”
Now THAT’S a disturbing statement on many levels! “Complete societal change needs to be enacted?” How would you “enact” that if the voters didn’t want it? Would you do it like Morsi in Egypt, and just suspend the Constitution? I’m afraid that this is the exact mindset that many conservatives have. Just look at what’s happening in Michigan right now- the GOP didn’t campaign on eliminating the unions and the governor stated that it wasn’t his priority, but they forced it through yesterday in lame duck with no debate and no comment allowed. They knew that the voters didn’t support their agenda, so they hid it.
Cargo, you can’t see it , but the GOP has moved radically rightward in the past 10 years, as has been documented many times here. The American people have not followed that movement, and now the only way your party can move their radical agenda forward is through subterfuge and misdirection. THAT is not something to be proud of and is the way of dictators and despots.
“How about more funding for the ICE?”
The states were going to save ICE money by helping them do their job, but the feds sued to prevent it, so don’t tell me it’s a matter of funding. The money used to support the lawsuit could have better been used to support ICE. No, it’s a matter of inaction or unwillingness to act.
So Moon, I see you side stepped the question of fairness and focused on ‘papers’ instead. What about fairness?
What fairness? Whoever told you life is fair lied.
what are you talking about “the states are going to save ICW money?” Says who? What kool ade are you drinking?
My opinion–Arizona should have been sued and someone needed to go bitch slap Brewster. I haven’t gotten past that hag wagging her finger in the face of the President of the United States. I found her behavior as despicable as I found the shoe thrower’s at President Bush.
Line? Where is there a line?
OK, it’s a matter of inaction or unwillingness to act. Isn’t that the same thing as saying…the majority of Americans aren’t really adversely affected by the recent wave of immigrants and that they may even appreciate the contributions to our standard of living attributed to these immigrants?
A comment on fairness. Let me build you a straw man or two. One, a man who lives with his family in a dangerous and poor country, and another, who lives in a safe and sane country with a slowly growing economy. Both could do better in the US and know it. There is an incentive for the second straw man to get in line and wait. To come here by following the rules, by doing so he can stay here, by doing so people here cannot take advantage of him when he gets here and, by doing so, it allows him to succeed. Our first guy has an incentive to get here quickly. He may be facing social and/or economic disaster if he stays in his own country. He has an incentive to get here, no matter what. Both avenues of entry are correct and fair for each of our straw men. Neither would choose the path that the other elects. Therefore, it is not really a matter of fairness. It is a matter of options, choices and necessity.
@BSinVA
That’s a very nice strawman argument. I appreciate your identifying it as such.
The problem is not that Strawmam #1 is not realistic, but that it is too realistic. It probably describes the plight of millions of people. But it is not in the best interests of the U.S. to look the other way as millions of illegal immigrants flow into the country, regardless of their plight. It is de-stabilizing to allow in so many unskilled people, many of whom require medical care and financial assistance and cannot assimilate due to language and cultural barriers.
So the question of fairness needs to be considered in terms of what is good for the citizens of the U.S. and those that enter the U.S. legally, not what is fair for potential illegal immigrants.
Speaking of straw man stories, you just told one.
Since when did immigrants not assimilate because of cultural and language barriers? Doesn’t that pretty much describe most immigrants
I haven’t seen that most illegal immigrants require financial assistance either. Most are hard working. Is there a private bread line somewhere that we havent seen?
Here is the question–How is it destabilizing to allow so many unskilled people into the country? Most of what I saw here was a result of stupidly constructed immigration policies and dishonest politicians and builders.
Yes, I can elaborate.
@middleman
Let’s see…complete societal change…kind of like what’s going on now in which so many young people are comfortable with socialism and dependency on the government. The ONLY place where people are standing up for their rights is the 2nd Amendment. We see people getting randomly frisked in New York. The Kelo decision gutted property rights. We now are forced to buy a product from a third party because the gov’t says so. Religious speech and choices are being restricted by gov’t fiat. Entrepreneurship and business is demonized. The idea that rights are given to you by the government.
That kind of change.
“Would you do it like Morsi in Egypt, and just suspend the Constitution?”
You mean like Obama’s unconstitutional “recess” appointments and his implementation of the the Dream Act by fiat or the giving of waivers to national law under ObamaCare? Or the idea that the government can hold American citizens indefinitely without trial?
Parts of the GOP IS moving rightward. Because the Democrats and the mainstream GOP is moving left. The conservatives are trying to hit the brakes on the car about to go over the cliff and turn the car around. But we keep moving towards a more socialized, anti-business country. We keep spending our way into bankruptcy. Fiscal cliff? That’s small potatoes. That is an artificial crisis created by Congress. The real crisis is the absolute inability of the Democrat party and some of the GOP to stop spending all of our money and enact commonsense tax law and regulations. It is the complete inability of our politicians to uphold their oaths to the Constitution and stay within the limitations of the Constitution.
You are drinking your own kool ade, Cargo.
Furthermore,you have insulted every person on this blog.
I don’t think more young people are more comfortable with socialism. You might want to check out the findings on that one in Pew institute report before throwing around the term ‘socialisdm’ at people. Its a good way to get bunched in the nose.
I would say women were very much standing up for themselves. We will also continue to do so every time your band of GOP thugs come after our rights. In fact, the rallying cry pretty much shut out the 2nd amendment folks. If election results are any sign, well…we are louder than you are.
I don’t even want to hear about President Obama’s “unconstitutional recess appointments.” Were you voicing protest while President Bush was doing the exact same thing?
As for the mini dream act, Good for Obama. I applaud him for making that move. It isn’t illegal.
This just sounds like more sour grapes. None of the GOP is moving left. You are imaging things. The moderate GOP has become extinct. There are none left. The far right has dragged the party to the point of extinction. Unless it becomes an appealing party once again, it simply won’t win any more major elections.
What will spring up? Probably Democrat lite. but not for a while.
@Moon-howler
In what way did I insult everyone on the blog? Please, enlighten me as to what I should learn about “that Pew Poll” since I didn’t use a poll.
Subsequent searching found it.
As for women standing up for yourselves: OK. You want abortion rights, the GOP is pro-life. If they become NOT pro-life… they become Democrat-lite. Belief that the unborn has a right to life is a basic principle. Your side has decided that the unborn does not have a right to life.
Bush didn’t appoint a recess appointment while Congress was technically in session.
Obama’s tactic has not been PROVEN illegal..but then his cronies run the DOJ and Congress is cowardly. They LIKE the idea of Obama taking the heat off of them. But if he can selectively ignore federal law..then we are not a nation of law anymore. He INVENTED law in his decision and is ruling by fiat in this case.
The GOP isn’t moving left? Really? Instead of arguing in favor of downsizing gov’t and advancing the free market, our presidential nominee was debating on the idea the he was a better manager of government and his programs would work better. McCain was the same. BUSH built the DHS, signed the Patriot Act, did Medicare D, and the Prescription drug Plan.
How is THAT not progressive and leftist? The “moderate” GOP is in charge. They are purging “Tea Party” types off of committees because they won’t go along with Boehner’s capitulation to Obama. Personally, I think that the GOP should vote present and give Obama every single thing that he wants. And raise the taxes on everyone to pay for it. That’s what the people voted for.
If the party fails… oh well. Don’t care. I’m not fighting for Republican ideals. I’m fighting for conservative ideals mixed this libertarian philosophy.
It isn’t just abortion rights. @Cargo. I don’t know how I can explain it any other way. You seem to think the women are only about abortion rights.
Plus, my response was about people fighting for their rights. You said just 2nd amendment people stood up for their rights. I beg to differ.
As for the GOP being pro life. I guess I think everyone is pro life. There are plenty of Republican women who are pro choice. I have worked with them over the years. Right now many of them have been bullied into silence.
You are incapable of this discussion without using dog whistle words. “The unborn” At least man up and call things by their correct medical names. Sorry, I don’t think of fertilized ovum in a petri dish as “the unborn.” How can anyone have a serious conversation when one party won’t even use adult terminology.
No, the GOP isn’t moving left. The GOP has gone extremist right. You trot out people who don’t really represent the party. One person isn’t the GOP. McCain has seen the error of his ways though and he makes sure he sounds loud and proud Republican. Poor old Romney just got kicked to the curb after being The Chosen. I have not seen anyone treated that shabbily in a long time.
I can’t help who the GOP trots out as its chosen. I don’t try to speak to their credentials. I will defend Bush in saying he had the unthinkable happen on his watch which altered the course of history. Again, the GOP has thrown him under the bus.
As I have been typing “the GOP” it just occured to me that “the GOP ” might bre the old guard and the Republicans are the new guard.
@Moon-howler
You beg to differ about the 2nd Amendment rights…yet 2nd Amendment rights have been advancing for 10 years, gun ownership is up, and is popular with young people.
Unborn covers the entire spectrum of fetal development., not just specific times. I mention abortion because that is what is in the platform. I didn’t see contraception, etc in there. Apparently I’m not incapable of having the conversation as we have had it over and over and over.
The GOP hasn’t thrown Bush under the bus….he’s retired. HE has chosen not to get involved in politics.
I defend Bush also…but he’s still a “big government” Republican.
I can’t help it if you think that the entire party has moved “right.” I see it as the party has moved left, the country has moved FARTHER left, and the conservatives are trying to turn the car from going over the cliff.
I’ve given up on THAT fight. I want the pedal to the metal. I say that all of the Democrats agenda should be enacted, as long as its constitutional. I say tax to pay for all the spending. The voters wanted spending and programs…ok. Lets do it. The GOP should just vote present or walk away and let it go over the cliff, THAT THEY FREAKING INVENTED.
Stupid should hurt. And the path that we are on is stupid. But not enough Americans are being hurt by the decisions being made in DC…so let’s give them what they want, make them pay for it, and when the credit rating tanks, the jobs dry up, and the inflation soars…. well….we asked for it.
Since you guys are so worried about the GOP, please…. tell me what the GOP should stand for and put on its platform while differentiating itself from the Democrats. I’m really curious.
Should the GOP be reacting to not being democrats? Maybe a little bigger tent.
@Cargosquid
Cargo, I respect the fact that folks like you and Kelly engage in the discussion on this blog, where you are clearly outnumbered. I strongly feel that our country needs at least two major parties, so I think it’s important that the GOP doesn’t fade away.
I think you need to take a step back and take a dispassionate look at where the GOP is right now. You state that the GOP (or Republicans, or the Tea Party, or whatever) is trying to save the country from itself, and I think you believe that. But do you understand what that means? Governing not from the will of the people but from the direction of their billionaire backers? Campaigning on one platform but legislating on another? Is that democracy? The majority of Americans don’t support the radical GOP agenda, so the GOP hides it until elected. Look at Virginia, where McDonnell campaigned on jobs, but legislated on untrasound. Look at Michigan, where they just did the bait-and-switch on union rights and are about to pivot to abortion legislation, neither of which they campaigned on. The list goes on. Look at voter suppression designed to limit minority and youth voting. The GOP is NOT following the will of the people, they’re trying to force their agenda because they think they know better than the people. That’s NOT democracy.
Obama’s not perfect, but what you see is what you get. He campaigned on raising taxes on the rich, and the voters supported him. They knew he passed Obamacare, and they supported him. They knew he re-regulated the financial sector, and they supported him. They knew he raised the fuel economy requirements for cars, and they supported him. And on and on. No bait-and switch.
Americans agreed with his positions and elected him.
Republicans need to take positions that the majority of Americans support. It’s that simple.
Governing not from the will of the people but from the direction of their billionaire backers?
Campaigning on one platform but legislating on another?
Look at voter suppression designed to limit minority and youth voting.
Governing not from the will of the people? Billionaire backers? So..the Democrats don’t have billionaires backing them?
I agree. That’s why the Tea Party is trying to oust Republicans that ignore their platform on spending
Voter suppression? Where? Voter ID? I would think that people would applaud voter id since we need it for everything else. What voter suppression? If there is one…it is an utter failure.
They knew that he passed ObamaCare but voted for him ANYWAY. ObamaCare is still unpopular. They knew that he “re-regulated” the financial industry. 99% of American voters have no idea what he did to the financial sector except that he successively demonized it while taking money from it. Raising the fuel economy of cars in the future was NOT on their minds when they voted.
But I will give you this..there was no bait and switch on Obama…except when he lies. And when the press covers for him. Nope. No bait and switch there.
You guys don’t get it. Its not about electing Republicans. Its not about defeating Democrats. Its about those things ONLY in the context of saving America. I fully believe that we are now on the path to destruction. This guy says it better than I: http://www.shotsacrossthebow.com/index.php/site/comments/236_years_is_a_good_run/
Excerpts:
Because the other half of American voters have looked at the past four years, and are happy with what they see. The President that brought us long term unemployment at record levels, the lowest workforce participation rates in decades, the most anemic recovery in history, $5 trillion in new debt with who knows how much to follow, quantitative easing as a permanent economic policy, disregard of Constitutional checks and balances, and the replacement of the rule of law with the rule of a man has won re-election. And all he had to do was promise to take money from those who earned it and give it to those who didn’t. The American electorate has spoken and they are in favor of continued handouts from the federal government paid for by imaginary money printed out of thin air.
The character of the American voter has changed irrevocably. That smoke won’t go back into the bottle. The people, bless their hearts, will continue to vote for the candidate that promises them the biggest slice from the public coffers and the smart candidates will give it to them in order to win elections.
Until, of course, the coffers are empty. Until there are no more wealthy people to tax.
Check out Greece if you want to know what comes next.
AND
You see, I know what comes next. The confluence of our politics and our economic policies can only lead to one place. I hope I’m wrong and that the current crowd of idiots in DC can accomplish something that nobody else in the history of the world has been able to pull off, but I’m not going to bet my life on it.
I believe we are heading into a time that will combine the worst parts of the Great Depression and the War Between the States. Making things worse, as America weakens, crippled by debt, a moribund economy, and a feckless foreign policy, I expect external attacks as well, not of conquest, but of destruction.
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If I were a Republican in Congress right now, my strategy would be simple. Give Obama everything he wants. He wants Card Check, give it to him. Cap and Trade? No Problem. An open door immigration policy with full amnesty? Coming right up! A revised tax code that forces the wealthy to pay their ‘fair share,’ to be defined of course by the federal government and the size of the deficit? At your service sir! Wage and Price controls to make sure that people don’t make ‘too much’ money? What a brilliant idea!
Give him everything he wants. One of two things will happen. The progressives will turn out to be right, and we will have the most prosperous, secure, plentiful lives in the history of America, Or they will be proven wrong yet again and have nobody to blame for it.
“What fairness? Whoever told you life is fair lied.”
Well, then please don’t bring up issues of ‘fairness’ when discussing deporting illegal immigrants, or why they come here in the first place because you see ‘life isn’t fair’! That will be my answer from now on whenever someone tells me that actions I may want to take aren’t ‘fair’ to one group or another. You didn’t like the PWC Resolution? Well: “Whoever told you life is fair lied.”
@Cargosquid
Well, well, Cargo, so you want to “save America”-from the voters, apparently. Your party is certainly doing its best in that regard, with new and creative ways to suppress voters. Not a pretty picture. Oh, well, I’m still enjoyin’ the “goodies” that bought my vote…
As you say, we’ll see who’s right. I’m bettin’ on the Progressives rather than the regressives every time!
Suppress voters…. yeah, that’s the new narrative.
Just because the progressives might win the politics, doesn’t make the right.
Voter ID avoids all arguments, and the way the government is spending money who can bitch about the cost. Process it at the DMV. Simple as that. The Dems know that would cause true voter suppression … of illegally cast votes that is.
Where were there illegally cast votes? If you know of where that happened you have a moral and civic obligation to report it.
I suppose you missed the fact that some voters stood in line, in PWC, 3-4-5 hours to vote? The lines weren’t all minorities either. There were some places right here in Gainesville that had those kinds of waits. It wasn’t at my end either. It was at the “white” end of the district.
(I don’t live at the white end…I live up here in the ethnic enc of the Gainesville District…Adams MOrgan of the south.)
@Second Alamo
Alamo, you’re ignoring (or ignorant of) the fact that voter I.D. is only one of the GOP suppression methods. Some of the other methods include eliminating early voting, reducing the hours polls are open, limiting the number of voting machines available, limiting the personnel manning the polling places, increasing the complexity of ballots, etc. The last three create long lines in the hope that those less committed will go home. It didn’t work this election due in large part to key lawsuits striking down some of the more egregious attempts, but the GOP will likely continue in their efforts to undermine democracy in America. If you can’t win on the issues, I guess you try to limit the voters that don’t agree with you in order to force your extreme agenda onto an unwilling electorate.
It’s a credit to democracy in America and the dedication of the voters, some who waited 4-5 hours in line, that so far the heavy-handed suppression techniques of the GOP have failed.
@middleman
Yep..keep on that narrative of “heavy handed suppression.” We sure don’t want any assurances of a clean vote.
Funny…. with all that supposed suppression……it didn’t seem to actually, you know…suppress anything. In fact, in some districts… Romney achieved the improbable accomplishment of receiving zero votes. Not one, out of thousands of votes. Even dictators usually only get 98% of the vote.