Archie Bunker had the answer 40 years ago. He doesn’t sound much different that Wayne Lapierre did the other day other than LaPierre used better grammar.
I find these discussions rather incredible. I wish one “enthusiast” would explain to me how I am supposed to know that THEY are sane and someone like Cho is not sane. The ranting and raving just isn’t passing the old sanity test in my eyes. The weapons capable of multiple kills in a matter of seconds have to be removed from our every day life.
Additionally, we can’t deport everyone who says something we don’t like. Deportation isn’t the answer to every problem.
Text of video:
Good evening, everybody. This here is Archie Bunker of 704 Hauser Street, veteran of the big war, speaking on behalf of guns for everybody. Now, question: what was the first thing that the Communists done when they took over Russia? Answer: gun control. And there’s a lot of people in this country want to do the same thing to us here in a kind of conspiracy, see. You take your big international bankers, they want to — whaddya call — masticate the people of this here nation like puppets on the wing, and then when they get their guns, turn us over to the Commies…
Now I want to talk about another thing that’s on everybody’s minds today, and that’s your stick-ups and your skyjackings, and which, if that were up to me, I could end the skyjackings tomorrow… All you gotta do is arm all your passengers. He ain’t got no more moral superiority there, and he ain’t gonna dare to pull out no rod. And then your airlines, they wouldn’t have to search the passengers on the ground no more, they just pass out the pistols at the beginning of the trip, and they just pick them up at the end! Case closed.
The irony is that the Archie Bunker character was supposed to be a caricature of the average American at that time. Archie was supposed to be an insult. And yet, what he says is true. More Americans agreed with Archie at that time than Meathead.
The way that you tell the difference between the good and the bad….the bad people are the ones pointing the guns at people while committing a crime. It’s that simple. A gun in a holster, concealed or not, is not a danger.
One solution, similar to this….
tasers on that are activated by the pilot, attached to the seats. If terrorism starts, the air crew can activate them as needed, and the passengers are then armed as needed. Passengers could opt out and those seats could not be activated.
@Cargosquid
WHO told you that? He was not supposed to represent the average person. He was who you didn’t want to be like.
Meathead was his antithesis.
Neither was supposed to represent the average person. They were out there for the rest of us to laugh at.
I don’t know where you get your statistics from. So more Americans were flat earthers? Probably. I am not sure that is something to brag about.
If that response about the good guys and the bad guys was supposed to be funny, it really wasn’t. Surely you know that people who have commited gun violence don’t do it all the time and sometimes carry weapons place or have them in their homes before committing crimes.
Since you chose to mock me let’s make it more personal. How do I know that you are sane enough to walk about with loaded weapons? I don’t. You could turn on a dime and mow us all down at a Moonhowler event.
I did not mock you. Period.
I wasn’t trying to be funny. It IS as simple as that. You cannot tell a criminal from a law-abiding citizen until they commit a crime. And its already illegal for criminals to even be in possession of a gun. Police have the authority to ask anyone carrying concealed to see their permit. I’ve shown to cops on a traffic stop even when I wasn’t carrying, because they asked for it.
If my intention was to mow you down at a Moonhowling event, it wouldn’t matter if concealed carry was illegal or not. That’s the point. Carry laws only affect the law abiding.
As for Archie, perhaps I said it wrong. He was “everyman” but you weren’t supposed to like him. You are right. His character was created to be disliked. Yet he was the most popular. Archie was a hero to many. Meathead was obnoxious to me even when I was watching it back then.
@Cargosquid
Yes, you did mock me. Do you think I am so stupid that I need to be told which end of a gun to point at someone?
Your tone was condescending and you mocked my words.
I never spoke about concealed or unconcealed. I actually don’t really think it matters. The point is, if someone comes in to where ever I am with a weapon, how am I supposed to know if that person is sane or not sane. I don’t know. Therefore I am very uncomfortable.
I am certainly not alone in feeling that way. I don’t want to live in a world where I have feel I have to arm myself against the unstable.
The gun hobbyists are going to have to understand that walking around with weapons of war make the average person uncomfortable. That takes away my rights. Our rights are on a collision course. There will have to be compromise.
I certainly don’t want to take away everyone’s guns. I just think there are certain types of weapons that your average Joe doesn’t need to be a hobbyist.
There really hasn’t been much in depth discussion about the mental health aspect of this question. (or the anger management end either). It is an entire field that has been ignored or fingers have been pointed at the loonies–no real solutions or money put into treatment.
As for Archie, I am not sure popular is the right word. Kingfish was “popular” also. We all knew an Archie. I would think “icon of ignorance” might be more apt. Yes, Meathead was obnoxious. He was supposed to be. He wasn’t there to be the hero.
If we are going to be Freudian about it, Archie was the id, Edith was the ego, and Meathead was the super ego. We almost forgave Archie because most families had an Archie. We weren’t proud of him but Bunker gave us a way to explain him.
@Moon-howler
Edith was the hero of that show. Archie and Mike represented the extremes where reasonable people did not want to go. Edith ignored partisanship, political rhetoric and personal attacks and chose the middle ground with a sense of doing what was right and not harming anyone, even if she couldn’t express her views as well as others might have been able to do. Maybe we need more Ediths these days?
Were there any heroes in that show?
I am not sure there were any. I think it was a show of anti-heroes.
Stifle it Meathead, Archie rules.
NTK,
Right on! We need more Edith’s 😉
No, Archie was seen as the lovable bigot that demonstrated the person who one did NOT want to be in acutallity.
Lest we forget, this was time of “The Jeffersons” , “sanford and sons”. We were in an era of re-creating our society based on equal rights for all.
Cargo, you seem to minsunderstand the underlying intent of these shows in the 70’s.
Edith also was a product of her environment and let us not forget, the role of all women of her generation.
Oh, to live a life of simplified thinking.
Yes, you did mock me. Do you think I am so stupid that I need to be told which end of a gun to point at someone?
Your tone was condescending and you mocked my words.
Oh, please. I did not mock you. It was not my intention and I did not do it. My words were to demonstrate the difference between the two types. The fact is that the carrying of a gun infringes upon nobody else’s rights and that the attempt to figure out who is the bad guy is useless. The only time to tell is if they are threatening innocent people. And bad people will not follow the laws and so will carry anyway. Anti-carry laws make only the law abiding defenseless. You probably see people everyday that are actually armed.
I will accept that you did not mean to mock me…howevaaaa….it sounded crappy to me. Perhaps I should look at what you said another way…the problem is, you can’t tell most of the time, unless it is someone you know.
I say that some dude I don’t know carrying what looks to me like a machine gun in mcDonalds or Starbucks does violate my rights. I don’t want to be in an establishment with someone packing that kind of heat. So I will leave, for my own safety. I can’t go to that store while that person is there.
Yes, bad people break the laws. From what I hear on the interest some people are announcing now that they intend to be bad people and break the law. Not sure I see the difference.
A decade or so ago my husband was in the grocery store and some old dude came through with a shotgun and some other weapon. Cops were called and he was taken away. today that wouldn’t happen. Now how do I know if that guy i there to shoot up the joint or is he merely making up for some inadequacy? How do I know? I am just going to leave.
How do I know? I am just going to leave.
And that is a perfectly reasonable response to alarm bells going off in your head. I’ve always told my kids if something doesn’t feel right, there’s a reason that shouldn’t be ignored. I’ve learned to be more situationally aware–for example, I will no longer sit in a restaurant with my back to the door. My friends think it’s weird, but whatever. However, when I see someone carrying (and when you’re a gun collector and like to target shoot like my family does, you notice things like that) I don’t really worry, especially if the guy is sitting with his family or his buddies and eating a pizza. It usually doesn’t play out that way.
@Emma, I told my kids the same thing and I also don’t like sitting with my back to the door in a restaurant. We would be side by side if we were out somewhere.
I think it would be a shame for someone to be out with a military weapon and his kids. I don’t know…that just gives me the creeps. Now if someone is discretely wearing a pistol of some sort…with his kids, fine.
Go with your gut is always a good practice.
There are people who quietly carry weapons for their own personal protection. I don’t know what they do for a living or what have you…and they aren’t the people who bother me. Its the show that bothers me. I don’t trust it and I will leave. I used to enjoy target shooting. I still didn’t like the great show of weaponry in places not appropriate. Now at a range…no problem.
What ever happened to that range over in the old Giant shopping center in Woodbridge?
@Moon-howler
What Lady Emma said.
If someone came into McDonalds with a long arm, I would leave too. THAT would probably get a call for the cops anyway, even by me. There is appropriateness for everything. And every private property can prevent lawful carry by posting or by asking people to leave.
I think what has happened is that we are once again having a real conversation about this subject which is productive.
Now here is the question. Starbucks has the policy that they will go with whatever the state law says….so lets say someone walks into a Starbucks with a rifle. It’s perfectly legal to do so, isn’t it?
What can be done?
How about that video with the black guy and what looked like a tommy gun?
I think it’s stupid to walk into Starbucks with a long gun. That goes into the category of just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should. I don’t tend to gravitate towards people who do dumb things just to make a point.
But just carrying in a holster? No biggie.
Are you talking about the video about gun safety where the dumbbell shoots himself in the leg in front of a classroom of kids?
@Emma, no, just a guy who is walking around a rally with what looks like a Tommy gun. In fairness, it probably isn’t but I don’t know those kinds of weapons by name. I forget why I even saw it….but it wasd one that went viral. It might have been tea party. I just don’t remember.
Why is it worse for someone to walk into Starbucks/McDonalds with a long gun than with a concealed sidearm? I would leave if either happened, but I might not know that the concealed sidearm came in until our governments insist that all arms (including my chosen weapon, the cavalry sabre) be carried openly.
I don’t get why people feel safer with open carry than concealed. Do you think criminals care about your sensitivities in that way? They’ll conceal whether it’s legal or not because they are, by definition, criminals.
If I carried a gun and someone walked into a Starbucks carrying a rifle and I had my kids I’d shoot him. How would I know he was/wasnt a threat until it was too late? And if he was in the middle of Starbucks and several people decided he might be a threat, who would shoot first? I would because what if the guy across the room decided to shoot and I or one if my kids might get shot if he missed.
And Emma, your point about gunshot victims that might have sustained certain pinjuries where you think they shouldn’t have a gun due to the injury was enough for me.
Emma: does it follow that because a criminal would conceal a weapon, everyone else should also? I feel safer knowing where the weapons are and being able to make a judgement accordingly about whether I stay in the space or leave. It’s that simple. If I don’t know how many weapons are there, I can’t make that judgement. I don’t like the government enabling the hiding of that information by permitting amateurs to carry concealed weapons.
@Scout, I had never thought about it that way. You make an excellent point. I always looked at it from the point of view that I didn’t have to know…which was sort of a coward’s way out.
If Alex Jones walked into a Starbucks carrying a gun (open, concealed, long, short, whatever) I’d leave. In fact I think I’d leave if Alex Jones walked into a Starbucks NOT carrying a gun.
Bwaaaahahahahahaha!!! Totally agree, Scout.
Scout, what a scary world you inhabit. All those people carrying concealed around you, and if you only knew, you’d leave. You’d be quite the hermit.
Sorry you feel that way, Lyssa, but I have experience with brain-injured people as a healthcare professional, and I can think of a few that I would not entrust with a gun because of their long-term mood changes and motor impairments. The point is larger than just banning certain types of guns and magazines and forcing open carry. There are medical and psychological issues that should be addressed. If that offends you, so be it.
This blog has taken the position that the problem is multi-faceted, from the onset. I believe we honed in on certain gun regulation, mental health care (to include substance abuse) and media such as video games.
I don’t disagree with you at all. But victims are more easily identifiable than bad guys or just plain stupid people. So they would be some of the first to be put on the no buy list. We sure are making a lot of plans (expensive) to allow some people to have lots of guns. And the way of going about it is creepy. Just reduce the guns. Is it true you can carry a weapon (concealed) in a bar in VA?
It seems that we are going to a lot of expensive in terms of human life and money just so people can do their hobby. Past basic defense, none of this is required for one’s job. Pat self protection, which no one is arguing, it is all hobbyist and avocation.
Yes to the bar question. The law is about a year and a half in effect.
Yes, you can carry concealed into a VA bar, but you cannot consume alcohol unless you are a law enforcement officer. The bar has every right, as a private business, to probihit entry if you are carrying.
And then you are all getting worked up and leaving Starbucks because – possibly — a plain cloths officer came in to get a snack – or a uniformed. I don’t think there are that many as a percentage of poulation non police concealed carry and remember some officers are required to carry even when off duty.
We need more civilians willing to take the risk of protecting themselves and others. If only there had been one in the Theater, in the school or at VaTech – or there was a risk that there could be. Even the nut cases get that.
Plainclothesmen rarely carry Tommy guns.
Blue….Quit trying to sensationalize everything.
Yea, I wonder what a pistol would have done against the weaponry that any of those toads were sporting. Nothing.
@Moon-howler
That video went viral because the news media promoted it as the racist radicalness of the TEa Party because a close up, cropped video of the man was used. He was carrying an AR miles away from the actual location of the President. And the media concealed that he was actually a black man. If it was legal to carry…fine.
The problem with a long gun being carried in public is one of perception. A handgun is perceived to be a weapon of defense… as someone else said, “No, sir. I’m not carrying a pistol because I’m expecting trouble. If I was expecting trouble, I’d be carrying my rifle.”
The person I am thinking of in the video was part of everyone else. He wasn’t far away and I have no idea what the name of his weapon was. There was no doubt that he was a black man. It wasn’t painting anyone as racist as I recall. He seemed to be most welcome. Its been a couple years ago. No biggie. I just remembered the gun and thinking I would leave if I was around him.
@Moon-howler
He was welcome at the rally. The portion used by the media was cropped to prevent his race from being known. The media at that time was using a Tea Party/gun owner equals racist narrative.
Here’s a version of it from Youtube.
http://youtu.be/KcJmtZWb3hs
What is the point? My point is I don’t want his weapon around me. I don’t care if he invented the tea party. Now, I I go to the range and he is there, fine. If I go to TGIF’s, then I don’t want to see him and his weapon in there. If I did, I would instantly leave. He might be the most wonderful person in the world. Problem is, I don’t know that. His race has nothing to do with it. In fact, his race would be more reassuring since I don’t recall a mass murder being committed by anoyone but white men.
@ Emma at 0937: My world is not particularly scary. That probably explains why I have never had any urge to wander around the local landscape armed to kill. What is scary is the inside of the head of someone who believes daily life in suburban Virginia is so fraught with life-threatening danger that he needs to carry a deadly weapon to accomplish the daily business of living around here. Now that is scary. One of the ironies of the gun situation is that the people most inclined to carry guns in daily life appear to be the ones who have the most alarmist risk assessment of daily life.
In any event, I didn’t say I’d leave if weapons were present. I am uneasy about a bunch of amateurs carrying guns. There are a lot of civilians that I would not feel comfortable around if I knew they were armed. There some that don’t bother me so much. But my observation is limited to the point that I want information that would permit me to make a judgement as to whether I leave or stay in the presence of a lot of fearful people packing heat.
We had a friend who used to get liquored up and come visiting. I knew he was always packing heat. So, when he knocked on the door, I held out my hand and he placed hi .357 magnum in it and we proceeded. When he was outside my house and leaving, I gave him his gun back.
Scout, I really don’t understand the paranoia about it either. These people aren’t hanging out at Springfield Mall or one of the more illustrious housing developments even.
Its the amateurs who think they are experts or mini LEOs that scare me.
@Moon-howler
In fact, his race would be more reassuring since I don’t recall a mass murder being committed by anoyone but white men.
Too true. I was just bringing up his race and what happened to identify the video and occasion for you, that’s all. Not defending him or the opposite. Don’t care about him.