What amazes me, is that there is a segment in the community of PWC that would rather see these small latino businesses go under, than acknowledge that ALL businesses play a role in the fiscal health of our community. I have said this for several years, we cannot thrive if our revenue is based solely on real estate revenue. Each one of us is experiencing first hand what happens to a community that depends on real estate taxes to “pay the bills”. Even though our real estate assessments are plummeting, our taxes are increasing. There is nothing wrong with catering to different ethnicity’s! Has anyone ever visited New York City, been to Washington D.C. ? These communities THRIVE on their diversity! How about “Chinatown” or “little Italy”, clearly they too cater to a specific ethnic group, this a part of what makes America awesome!
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Apparently, any Hispanic food not served by Taco Bell isn’t welcome in PWC.
Katherine,
Excellent letter to the editor!!!
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/article/did_stewart_lie_to_us_and_to_the_media/15866/
Thanks, Elena!
Katherine, you are so right about this. Thank you for taking the time to write that Letter to the Editor. You’re a hero like Elena and Alanna.
Hopefully Corey Stewart’s lies to the media and the community will end soon. Once Corey gives up on the impossible dream of changing the Resolution back to the unconstitutional inanity we had before April 29, we can pressure the County Attorney to set the record straight with a public statement as to what the revised policy actually means.
Here’s a idea of what it would sound like:
1) Checking status post-arrest means that “probable cause” has been suspended: residents will not be scrutinized for signs that they are undocumented by Police Officers who detain them (pull them over, or approach them on the street) prior to arrest.
2) Everyone who commits a crime that warrants arrest (drunk driving, hit and run, robbery, etc.) will be checked for immigration status AFTER THEY ARE ARRESTED, regardless of what they look like or how well they speak English. Thus Prince William County, and its Police Officers are no longer in dire jeopardy of law suits for racial profiling.
3) People of color and immigrants in general need not fear racial profiling. If you left Prince William County because of the Immigration Resolution, it is safe to come back now.
Hope that IS what it they come up with WHWN. Much better than what we’ve had. Of course, I still want the denial of services for disabled/elderly nixed because it’s MEAN! I don’t care if it hasn’t really impacted many people (which is their argument for leaving it there, last I heard).
BTW, thanks for the “hero” title, but I’m really uncomfortable with that (unless it’s me saying it to other people who have been more on the front lines).
All I do is write letters and talk. : )
Interesting photo essay from Mother Jones:
http://www.motherjones.com/photos/mexican-superheroes/
Elena,
Could not agree more. My husband and I recently went to New York City-WOW!!!! What a place. I love it. Being from Arlington, VA, I love Washington, DC, too. I was really struck by the cultural and ethnic diversity in NY. Chinatown, Little Italy, Harlem, Spanish Harlem, pockets of Germans, Polish and Jews, etc. What a place!!! What was the most wonderful about my trip was seeing how all these people can come together, be so different and yet so alike. Alike because they accept one another, accept their differences and live together, for the most part, in harmony. It is similar in D.C. but on a smaller scale.
Most of Prince William County and Manassas City residents and governing bodies can’t seem to grasp the changing face of the community. Too sad and too bad for them. When we embrace cultural and ethic diversity we begin to see the world through a different lens. It makes the world a more beautiful place.
Thanks kgotthardt for taking time to write a letter to the editor. People like you make it more tolerable to live in this area.
great post Superhero, thanks!
Welcome Superhero,
Great pictures. I often wonder when people complain about jobs, what do they think would happen to our economy if the 12 million really did leave. Also, when they keep increasing the numbers to 20 million etc… it would make the impact even greater if they left.
LOL! I love it when people bandy about “cultural” diversity, yet when you take a look at their neighborhoods they’re curiously un-diverse.
I put cultural in quotes becuase I’m fine with true cultural diversity but not the kind that it seems most have subscribed to on this blog (the kind of “diversity” brought on by an inordinate amount of illegal aliens).
Sorry if I don’t want my neighborhood to be your social experiment. After you’re done with your safari in the wilds, you have your segregated neighborhoods to flee too.
Great case in point is the PBS building in Arlington. They cried and moaned and cried somemore about the plight of the illegals untill… they built a day labor site… RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE PBS BUILDING! Total 180 then. HYPROCRITS! All fine with the “diversity” until it hits a little too close to home…
Yawn….Mando, you don’t have any idea where the posters here live. You just like to make generalizations. How about backing them up with facts. If your neighborhood is so awful, what are you doing to improve it? Or why not move into one of “our” (ha!) neighborhoods that is problem-free?
“Mando, you don’t have any idea where the posters here live.”
Most here have admitted to where they live.
Mando,
Put down the Kool-Aid.
FP
“Put down the Kool-Aid.”
Prove me wrong. Live near any flop houses? Or do you think they don’t actually exist?
WHWN and Kgotthardt…the “revised” resolution that the police are now operating under allows immigration questioning “at the discretion” of the officer, so while the mandated probable cause level has been eliminated, ANYONE stopped or encountered can still have their status checked. The mandate to inquire about immigration status has been removed from the original encounter until after (or post) arrest. But the individual officer is, under the current version of the resolution, given the discretion as to whether or not in inquire about immigration status.
Chinatown and Little Italy … uh-huh … what you have to understand is that most of us don’t want PWC to become Little mexico. Which is what it was becoming.
Rick,
Why? What would be wrong with that? Too many brown faces for you?
“But the individual officer is, under the current version of the resolution, given the discretion as to whether or not in inquire about immigration status.”
Pray they use that discretion wisely and not to sharpen anyone’s political or bigotted axe.
Mando and Rick, go have a taco and rest your necks.
Chinatown and Little Italy … uh-huh … what you have to understand is that most of us don’t want PWC to become Little mexico. Which is what it was becoming.
Ah, Rick Bentley, so it is Mexicans to whom you object rather than people here illegally.
I want to live where 1) My neighbors have been generally screened by the government as to whether they are sex offenders, and have had their criminal past tracked; 2) My neighbors can communicate with me in English; 3) My neighbors aren’t piling as many people into a house as third-world living conditions permit. Judgemental bigot that I am.
I don’t like the masive influx of people from another country – some is one thing, tens of thousands at a time who don’t speak English is not so great. But what I like or don’t like is one thing. When it’s ILLEGAL and only allowed because it makes the rich richer (and at the middle class’s expense) it makes me fighting mad.
Lucky Duck,
I think we agreed that the police always had the right to inquire, long before any resolution was created, it was the “mandated” portion that many of us objected to.
Rick Bentley,
It is pure ignorance to say PWC is turning into a “little mexico”. We have immigrants from ALL over south america here, not every latino is Mexican.
“I want to live where 1) My neighbors have been generally screened by the government as to whether they are sex offenders, and have had their criminal past tracked; 2) My neighbors can communicate with me in English; 3) My neighbors aren’t piling as many people into a house as third-world living conditions permit. Judgemental bigot that I am.”
The issues you complain about could be greatly resolved within the context of a required path to citizenship.
Rick Bentley,
“When it’s ILLEGAL and only allowed because it makes the rich richer (and at the middle class’s expense) it makes me fighting mad.”
I agree in this and I blame our Fed Gov. for NOT doing anything about it and causing neighbor against neighbor to bicker and fight against each other. To simplify it, I will say LEGAL neighbor against LEGAL neighbor in how we deal with these issues.
With my best snotty nosed little kid voice, : “they started it” ( Fed Gov) by allowing it to happen and selling out to the $$$$
Mando, I think WETA’s leaders were wrong in opposing a day laborer center near their building in South Arlington. However, their opinion was clearly not that of the county, which authorized the center. It’s not my opinion either as a person living in Arlington. I very much appreciate the county’s economic and ethnic diversity, something I experience every day in my neighborhood.
Unlike Rick Bentley, it doesn’t trouble me that my neighbors are speaking Spanish, Amharic, Mongolian, etc. around me. They tend to be friendly folk, legal or illegal. Also, as with every other generation of immigrants, the kids are usually speaking English to each other and to their parents, regardless of what language those parents are using.
If people are kind and doing their best, I don’t care if they speak gibberish!
I guess what does beg the question, is, what happens when you have neighbors that are not friendly, or do not exibit proper neighborhood etiquette, and to complicate things, they do not speak english? This is where a real partnership between government and citizens, could have been instrumental in dealing with many of the neighborhood issues I have read about.
Elena, Good for you for addressing this issue. In fairness to some of the people posting here, that is a situation they have been confronted with. I can understand why they are totally pissed off.
How can government help? How can other neighbors help? I believe it is Rick who has described some pretty horrific neighborhood conditions.
I think it is an unfair assumption that all the regulars here live in gated, segregated communities. I for one, do not. In fact, some of the critics may very well be my neighbors.
I think of Anon and his situation and really feel for him and his wife. So much could have been done to address his neighborhood issues, and instead, he was deserted by his public officials, choosing the “easy” way out instead. Which, in the end, was not the easy way out at all. At least now, there has been a substantial bump in the road to slow down the immigration resolution.
I hear you, but every time Manassas tried to address the overcrowding issue the reply was that they were targeting Hispanics. Therefor their actions were voiced as racist by the illegal immigrant supporters. The fact that the overcrowding was mainly caused by the low wage people moving into our neighborhoods were also from south of the border didn’t matter. It’s our own laws being used against us. In society’s effort to help those who need help we have created a haven for those who would take advantage of the help and turn it into a life style that wasn’t foreseen.
Here are some ways to get past the translation issue (assuming your neighbor is Spanish speaking):
1. Try writing a note and using an online translator. NO they are not they best, but they can get the point across. Make this a kind note with the first line being, “I’m sorry, but I don’t speak Spanish so I have to use this note.” Then nicely communicate the problem and propose a reasonable solution.
2. Do not simply leave the note. Go up to your neighbor, smile and say, “Hi! Por favor…estoy” and your name. Then hand your neighbor the note. Wait as he/she reads it and say something like, “Okay?”
3. If the problem is not resolved, do it twice. After the second time, if the problem is still not resolved, then call the city or county.
SA as far as overcrowding, it seems to me most people wouldn’t care who was living in a house if there weren’t other problems like people taking other people’s parking spaces, too much noise, trash, etc. This happens with the Hispanic community and other communities, but the only ones targeted were Hispanics. You can’t tell me that people of other nationalities aren’t guilty of these things. Bad neighbors come in every size and color. Furthermore, counties/cities/towns do not have the right do “define family.” How ridicuous in this day of extended, melded and non-traditional families!
As far as our own laws “being used against us,” that’s a strange notion since our court system is designed for citizens to protect themselves and question laws. We, as a country, are allowed to ask for legal and legislative reform and “fight” for it in public forums. Is this our way of “taking advantage” of our country? No. It’s our way of exercising our freedoms and in doing so, defending our Constituion. We are legal citizens doing this, so you can forget the “illegals don’t have any rights arguments.”
Furthermore, you have millions of people here and across the globe asking for immigration policy reform. Is the whole world suddenly out the take advantage of us? Come on. That’s not logical. If they truly were trying to “take advantage” they would bomb us, not remain some figment of people’s hysteria that says, “people from different countries are terrorists.” Sure be rid of terrorists and criminals. But don’t discount all of us who are merely celebrating and BEING American.
SecondAlamo,
On my father’s side, my great-great grandparents came from Ireland. They lived in crowded tenements in New York City. I don’t know if they only spoke English but it’s conceivable that they also spoke Gaelic. Many of our collective immigrant ancestors were illiterate. My grandparents on my mother’s side came from Ireland after WWII with my mother in tow. They were not college educated. My grandfather worked for Con-Edison & my grandmother was a secretary for Prudential. When they first arrived they lived with my great aunt(my grandmother’s sister) until they had saved up enough money to get an apartment of their own which probably costs $20/month or some other ridiculous amount. Anyways, when they retired, my parents made a very nice in-law suite for them and when they lived with us. Additionally, there was a period of time when my aunt was going through a divorce that she and her two young children moved in with us. So, for a period of a year or more, we had 10 people living in our home.
Personally, I see a lot of similarities between the immigrants of today and those of generations past. Maybe one of the differences is that they are now moving out of the cities which considering the cost of places doesn’t seem illogical to do.
Think for a moment about how a hotline which takes anonymous complaints could be used to make a case supporting a charge of discrimination. Can you imagine neighborhood bigots taking advantage of it by calling in everyone who doesn’t look like them? How about the lone whacko who calls in everyone? How about the person who claims the family next door is composed of “illegals” with no proof whatsoever? People should be willing to put their names on a complaint and stick to the known facts.
bybvbl you have lost all perpective. The important thing is to establish an effective mechanism to actually discover, and address, the overcrowding.
kgotthardt you ahve lost all perspective as well, walking up to people and apologizing for not speaking Spanish and so forth and doing all you can to roll out the red carpet for another nation’s citizens to come here and lower American wages.
“Furthermore, you have millions of people here and across the globe asking for immigration policy reform.”
So the demands of foreigners overseas and foreigners living within the US coupled with some Americans should be met?
“Is the whole world suddenly out the take advantage of us? Come on.”
Suddenly, no. The whole world has been trying to get something out of us, since, really WWI. I appreciate your outlook, but I see it as rather naieve. And FWIW – the US is definitely out to get as much as it can from the rest of the world without having to sacrifice much at all. It is how trade, relations and politics work.
“That’s not logical. If they truly were trying to “take advantage” they would bomb us,”
No, your claim they would “bomb us” is far from even realistic, let alone logical. There are plenty of ways to get what you want from others without resorting to all-out warfare. Ever read NAFTA and what we get from Mexico and Canada – even if they cannot provide for themselves?
“not remain some figment of people’s hysteria that says, “people from different countries are terrorists.”
Talk to the current misadministration on that one.
“Sure be rid of terrorists and criminals. But don’t discount all of us who are merely celebrating and BEING American.”
And who would “all of us” be?
Rick Bentley, and just what would that effective mechanism for discovering and addressing overcrowding be?
The ability to report people for investigation, anonymously.
Many of the people who came into PWC last few years had NO IDEA it was illegal to cram 15 people into a townhouse. We need to at least let them know it is not legal.
“Well why not a public education program”. Go ahead and try that. And don’t pretend you should or could do it other than in Spanish. And don’t pretend that if you engage in such a campaign, in or out of government, you’ll be assuaged by ACLU lawyers and politicians payed off by local builders and realtors and merchants and so forth and pilloried as a racist. Perhaps Bush’s Justice department will sue you as they did the City of Manassas.
It may not be legal to effect such genteel mesaures, but we still have the right to investigate and prosecute people for breaking the zoning law, and you can damn well bet most of us will and do demand this of our local government.
“Many of the people who came into PWC last few years had NO IDEA it was illegal to cram 15 people into a townhouse. We need to at least let them know it is not legal. ”
Amazing, isn’t it? You move into a new area where homes are occupied by just a few people, lawns are kept up, barnyard animals are nowhere to be seen – yet they need to be TOLD these things are not okay. Apparantly the research and info gathering they do on thier potential new home ends at how much per hour they’ll earn and where the nearest western union office is so they can wire cash back home.
The disconnect is astounding. I’ve lived overseas and not once did I run into zoning/overcrowding/husbandry issues from my presence and that of my copatriots. Sure, there are somethings people have to learn. I didn’t know the strict regulations regarding recycling and waste disposal, but after following the native residents’ lead we learned pretty quickly so we did not become outcasts.
Then again, I wasn’t there illegally and I left when my visa was up…
I think a lot of them really don’t know it’s illegal, or illegal in any more than a “wink and a nod” way. For God’s sake we make a mockery to them out of all our other laws like identity fraud, border sovereignty, etc.
Elena, I re-read your original post and noted you celebrate DC as thriving on diversity. Well just to give you another perspective. My wife was born and bred in DC and most of her friends and relatives are also. Many times through the years most of them have told me of how the El Salvadorans who migrate in and take over buildings and neighborhoods destroy the areas they move into and make neighborhoods bad places to live in. The term “Julioville” is used to describe certain slums around town and I hear groans when a Spanish-speaking family moves into or looks at a house. You may think this simple-minded racism but I’m just telling you what I really hear and see as someone who travels in African-American circles in DC. The experience of the people who have watched many many unassimilated El Salvadorans move into their neighborhood is hardly the celebration of diversity you may think it from a distance. This dislike was not borne of historical burdens but of anger at living next to people with different ways and cultural norms, which resulted in neighborhoods becoming worse places to live.
I personally witnessed one unassimilated guy running a grill one fourth of July on his porch, angrily ignoring his neighbors who tried to tell him (in English) this was unwise and illegal, and finally setting his porch covering on fire. All hail diversity.
Rick – it seems as if DC isn’t the ONLY place with those issues…
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-rooster25-2008may25,0,4480585.story?track=mostviewed-storylevel
It’s not that simplistic, Rick Bentley. The investigating agency has to justify going to court. That agency/inspector can’t merely tell a judge that he/she had a hunch (or ESP) that 123 State Street was overcrowded. They will have to prove that the occupants aren’t related or have overcrowded the house. Mr. Anonymous is a link in their chain of evidence. Too many Mr. Anonymouses making claims against Hispanics (with the resulting investigations and possibly unwarranted harrassment) may = investigation by the Justice Department.
SecondAlamo: Agree with you about the City of Manassas. They used to have an overcrowding hotline and I reported the house next to me. That fixed it for awhile and cleared it out of most of the occupants (at the time there were a 3 separate families living there with a total of 9 people, in a 3 bedroom townhouse!). Actually had to report it twice during that time period as after a few months it filled right back up. Since then have been unable to report even though I’ve called/e-mailed Manassas is really scared off of investigating overcrowding. Now, it has gotten even worse and I’ve documented the crime that has resulted from it in other threads. If the city hadn’t gotten scared off due to these silly lawsuits, I probably would have been successful in reporting this house again, and the crime that has occurred recently as a result of several of the tenants there, probably wouldn’t have happened. I’m sure those initiating the lawsuits didn’t live next to one of these houses!
I’ve seen comments in this thread that the city doesn’t have a right to define “family”. Maybe so, but they do have a right to do something about 9 people (or more) in a townhouse.
And quite frankly as to some other posters here saying it targets Hispanics, it isn’t anyone’s fault that a great majority (and in this neighborhood i think ALL) of the overcrowded townhouses happen to be those occupied by Hispanics.
And to other comments in this thread – maybe to some situations some kind of outreach would have worked. But in the particularly situation on my street, the house next to me it was made clear to them by the City of Manassas 2 years ago that they couldn’t have that many people living in that townhouse. They continued to ignore the law, as they’d vacate and then return a few months later. When people knowingly break the law like that, I don’t think there’s any kind of outreach possible. I’m sure it may work in many cases, but it has to be recognized in some cases it just isn’t going to work. What is the solution? I have no idea, short of again, enforcing some kind of overcrowding ordinance, which the city has been unable to do because of lawsuits. Again, I’d like to know if any of the people initiating these lawsuits has ever had to live next to an overcrowded house. I doubt it!
As far as definition of “family” – I don’t think any definition would make a lot of these overcrowded houses be legal. In many cases it is a bunch of unrelated males, so don’t think any redefinition of family is going to change them from being a family to not being a family.
Anon, I think most people would be greatly surprised by the number of people allowed to occupy a townhouse and still be in compliance with appropriate codes…it’s certainly higher than most of us would imagine. Did the City cite your neighbors because of the number of people or the relationship between people (three unrelated families?).
Censored – you are right that building codes allow many more people in a townhouse than most people imagine. It was indeed the relationship of the people that the city cited when they said that house was violating the ordinance in effect at the time. However, my point is they can no longer do that, and there still are 12 people living in that house next to me. In fact, as the great majority of them appear to be single males, I doubt there are much in the way of family relationships there currently.
So actually the point I was making, as much as people don’t like the city defining “family” – now we are left with no definition and huge overcrowding problems as a result. I have a feeling that zoning codes even allow 12 people in this kind of townhouse – 3 floors with a finished basement. From what I can see, the basement has been turned into a huge bedroom. I also believe the dining room has been too – only because there is a dining room set (an old one and now getting rather weathered in appearance) out on the deck! I keep waiting for that deck to collapse, not sure it is designed for that sort of weight on it.
Anyway, I agree with you that zoning ordinances as to just number of occupants is a problem, since it allows far too many occupants for that size house.
And for the record kgotthardt, I love Mexican food. La Tolteca is one of my favorite lunch places. What’s even better, though it’s not in PWC, is Picante in Chantilly.
But I still will fight amnesty to my dying breath and will always resent the way our elitist politicians prostitute us all for a cheap dollar, and pretend we can absorb Mexico’s underclass without sacrificing opportunity and a decent standard of living for the poor in our own country.
I like Mexican food too – although 10 years ago I got food poisoning (bad chicken in the chicken burrito) at the Don Pablos restaurant in Fair Lakes – goes to show you that Americanized Mexican chain restaurants are just as susceptible to health violations as more authentic Mexican restaurants (not that I hae anything against them).