Good grief. This man, whose name is Larry Klagman, couldn’t get more offensive if he tried. (Has he paid his back child support payments yet?) Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz also put in an appearance with this gang who were waving American flags, Gadsden flags, and Confederate flags while some of them carried barricades from the WWII memorial to the White House.

Park police had to come out in riot gear to quell the uprising of thugs hell-bent on making their voices heard. Apparently the protestors simply don’t understand the meaning of the word “CLOSED.” There is no funding for the parks and monuments.

Obviously Klagman who is unelectable doesn’t stand for family values, but how can people  like Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz, spokespersons for the values crowd,   be seen with people who are tearing up government property?  I doubt seriously if any WWII veterans were in that crowd.   It will be interesting to see what this clean up will cost.

The thugs need to understand that if they don’t like the parks and monuments closed, they need to contact their cult heroes and tell those folks to fund the government without ridiculous strings attached. This is a simple concept. Thugs, there is no free lunch.

 

100 Thoughts to “Just how offensive can the tea party get?”

  1. Elena

    Drinks are on me Emma 🙂 Amen!

  2. It isn’t cheap to shut down the government. It costs about $1.6 million dollars a day.

    Utah is taking over the parks while the govt is closed. Some of those little towns near the parks there are drying up without the tourism. Hats off to Utah.

  3. Kelly_3406

    @Elena

    In my opinion, Obamacare has two fatal flaws: 1) It is a top-down approach that is assumed to work equally well in all states; 2) As mentioned above, employer-supplied insurance shields people from the true cost of medical care. Obamacare makes the problem worse because people will pay more over a longer period, and will therefore want their money’s worth.

    My solution to the second flaw would be a return to cash-based medical care. People would use health savings accounts to pay for all healthcare up to an annual maximum. Insurance would be reserved for charges above the annual maximum and for high-cost individual procedures. Employers would no longer provide health insurance (thus massively reducing overhead costs to MANAGE healthcare), but would provide pre-tax payments to employees to cover insurance and/or HSAs. If the employee did not use those dollars for healthcare, the payment would be taxed at a very high rate. Direct subsidies could be used to assist low-income families and those with very high costs. Substantial tax breaks would be used to encourage people to get healthcare insurance.

    Overall, this idea is attractive because cost would be constrained by market forces. Businesses would benefit from lower costs, which would improve competitiveness and employment. This would be a win-win situation.

    The first flaw should be addressed by allowing individual states to run their own healthcare programs. I would hope that Virginia would go for the cash-based system described above. But states like Massachusetts would probably choose a Romney/Obamacare-like program. That would be their prerogative. The important thing is that it would allow each state to choose its preferred system. This choice would not work at more local levels (i.e. counties or cities), but economies of scale (like for auto insurance) would make state-wide choice attractive.

  4. @Emma
    Two unfunded wars? What’s prevented the Democrats from “funding” them? One war….by the way. Two theaters.

    Furthermore…if the wars are unfunded…so are the assorted stimulus programs, and the rest of the discretionary budget. ALL of it.

    1. I am not sure there was one war. Two wars, different objectives. Smoothing them all into one war is going to take some real smooth talking.

      The wars were unfunded and the people of the United States were never inconvenienced unless the people were part of a military family.

      What exactly are you defending, Cargo?

      Why disagree with Emma?

  5. @Pat.Herve
    What he is reading is that you must supply your ssn and agree to let them access your financial records BEFORE even seeing rates. NOT supplying medical information.

  6. @Elena
    Its not a conspiracy theory. It’s an opinion by IT professionals. And its the only one that makes sense.

  7. Second Alamo

    Give those guys a break. They were soldiers once, and young.

    1. What is your point? Do you think the memorials are just for soldiers? I would beg to differ.

  8. Scout

    Kelly’s comment (#4 at 2043) shows some disciplined thinking about a difficult issue. Thanks. There’s a lot of meat on that bone.

    #8 at 2104 backslides a bit.

  9. @Cargosquid
    Not sure what ITs you are talking about and what their opinion is about. You sampled all the ITs? On what subject?

  10. @Moon-howler

    Wolverine was talking about this.
    It was then declared to be a “conspiracy theory.”
    So I pointed out that it was merely the opinion of IT specialists….. and now I have to sample ALL IT’s?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/14/obamacares-website-is-crashing-because-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-health-plans-true-costs/
    A growing consensus of IT experts, outside and inside the government, have figured out a principal reason why the website for Obamacare’s federally-sponsored insurance exchange is crashing. Healthcare.gov forces you to create an account and enter detailed personal information before you can start shopping.

    HHS didn’t want users to see Obamacare’s true costs

    “Healthcare.gov was initially going to include an option to browse before registering,” report Christopher Weaver and Louise Radnofsky in the Wall Street Journal. “But that tool was delayed, people familiar with the situation said.” Why was it delayed? “An HHS spokeswoman said the agency wanted to ensure that users were aware of their eligibility for subsidies that could help pay for coverage, before they started seeing the prices of policies.” (Emphasis added.)

    Why is it that when I state something….. say…about an article referencing IT’s stating something about Obamacare….I then have to go poll ALL of them to get an opinion…..
    But your side can just make unfounded, insulting assertions?

    1. I asked because I didn’t know what you were talking about.

      I have a Republican friend who was a team manager for the Medicaid section. I didn’t get the impression there was anything amiss other than 151 parts had to all talk to one another. I knew this a day or two before Oct. 1.

      Figuring out what’s wrong is above my pay grade. I guess that I find that the IT people who thought there was something nefarious probably don’t know ho many different companies and different contracts were all involved in each component.

      I know my friend has been working 12 hour + days for several months getting things ready. He would be the last person alive being accused of collaborating with some left wing medical conspiracy.

  11. OH…and here’s some more thugs.

    If you’re so worried about trash pick up during the shut down, if people visit THEIR memorials….

    Its covered.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/14/veterans-clean-up-nationa_n_4098380.html?utm_hp_ref=good-news

    1. Why would you call Team Rubicon thugs? They are out helping the nation. They aren’t making a political statement, protesting, or tearing up crap.

      Why don’t you chose to see the difference?

  12. Pat.Herve

    Cargosquid :
    @Pat.Herve
    What he is reading is that you must supply your ssn and agree to let them access your financial records BEFORE even seeing rates. NOT supplying medical information.

    cargo – the quote says financial AND medical information – the latter not true. As far as the former – yes – they need information to insure your identity and to be able to provide you with the information about what subsidy one might be eligible for. If they did not do that you would be the first one griping that the displayed price was not the real price – leading to confusion all over the place.

    Amazon and Ebay were not built in a day – it will work out.

  13. Pat.Herve

    @Kelly_3406
    Kelly in regards to #1 – but the states can have their own plans. Romneycare does not change in Mass. If a state has a plan in place or develops a plan to provide coverage for all – nothing changes. And the states maintain regulation authority over their own insurance companies.

    #2 – a novel approach. I am not so sure about how people would feel if Obama had come down and said that employers would no longer provide coverage. I would bet that many employers would balk at that – as it is a major benefit that helps to retain employees. Also the amount paid to an individual might cost the large employers more money than it does now, as many of them are self insured and only pay out for the actual costs. Also – how to get people to save money in their HSA account – we can see with the 401k plans that people are not saving enough for retirement?

    How would your plan address preexisting conditions and lifetime caps? Currently an insurance company can drop an individual and not renew the policy – a major blow when one gets ill and starts using those HC dollars.

  14. Pat.Herve

    @Cargosquid
    Two wars – Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom were passed as separate legislation and had different goals.

    Yes Unfunded – even tax cuts after the wars were voted on. Debt increased from $5.8T to over $10Trillion. We are still paying on the drunken sailor spending ways of the past.

  15. Censored bybvbl

    @Kelly_3406

    What coverage would a person have as he travels across state lines or goes overseas? His home state’s coverage or the state’s where an accident or medical emergency occurs?

  16. @Pat.Herve
    Then you had better tell the military, because I get one award for the Global War on Terror and theater ribbons.

    And I’m sure that you’re also going to complain about the rest of the unfunded budget, right? ALL discretionary spending is UNFUNDED.

    1. Some people served in both wars. I wouldn’t take the ribbons as arbitrators of how many wars were being conducted at the same time. I would look at objective.

      Check out how crazy the ribbons were during WWII.

  17. @Pat.Herve
    Amazon didn’t cost us 634 MILLION dollars in tax money…and take 3 years to build.

    Only a 500% cost overrun. Just think how much the rest of the “cost savings” will cost us.

    There is absolutely NO need to have us put in personal info to see rates. Plug in numbers. Get possible rates. Companies do it all of the time.

    This is done purely so that they have a record of who is signing up and who is declining.

    1. That is way too paranoid.

      I went dental insurance shopping. I didn’t have to put in horribly confidential information.

  18. @Moon-howler
    The vets removing the barricades were also helping the nation.

    Civil disobedience in the support of freedom is always good. The Executive branch overstepped the boundaries of propriety.

    1. That is your opinion. I think what you are saying is pure bullshit. Boundaries of propriety? Then maybe they should just open up the national zoo also, and all the parks, without the staff and let the American people have at it. I have seen what the American people do to national treasures. It isn’t pretty. Anarchy is never pretty.

  19. I forgot to add….according to the Park police….cleaning and maintaining the grounds as volunteers…. illegal.

    1. Actually I was rather surprised to see all those supposed patriots [choke sputter] out there tearing up public property. It reminded me of the likes of Code Pink or the weathermen. I see little or no difference.

  20. Pat.Herve

    @Cargosquid
    I commend you are the achievement of the Global War on Terror Award – did you receive it as a participant of Operation Noble Eagle?

    Usually (and what should happen) – is when a spending plan is introduced a matching funding plan should also be included. This did not happen on Medicare Part D or the Iraq War. Obamacare does include some funding (like the medical device tax) and restructuring (Medicare reductions) – in order to pay for the legislation.

  21. Pat.Herve

    @Cargosquid
    There is absolutely NO need to have us put in personal info to see rates. Plug in numbers. Get possible rates. Companies do it all of the time.

    I did provide you with the link that gives you guestimate pricing for all the plans and you can access that link without giving any information at all – so what is it that you are looking for? If you want real pricing than you have to enter your financial information. I think you do not understand how the pricing and subsidy works. One can always go directly to the insurance company – nothing is forcing one to use the exchange.

  22. Pat.Herve

    Cargosquid :
    @Pat.Herve
    Amazon didn’t cost us 634 MILLION dollars in tax money…and take 3 years to build.

    Do you really believe all the nonsense you read on the Web?? Even fox has walked back from that figure.

  23. As a result of donations from states to the National Park Service, the following national parks are temporarily re-opened.

    •Arches National Park (Utah, open October 11-20)
    •Bryce Canyon National Park (Utah, open October 11-20)
    •Canyonlands National Park (Utah, open October 11-20)
    •Capitol Reef National Park (Utah, open October 11-20)
    •Cedar Breaks National Monument (Utah, open October 11-20)
    •Glen Canyon National Recreation Area (Utah, open October 11-20)
    •Natural Bridges National Monument (Utah, open October 11-20)
    •Zion National Park (Utah, open October 11-20)
    •Rocky Mountain National Park (Colorado, open October 11-20)
    •Statue of Liberty National Monument (New York, open October 12-17)
    •Mount Rushmore National Memorial (South Dakota, open October 14-23)
    •Grand Canyon National Park (Arizona, open October 12-18)

  24. Elena

    Kelly,
    There is some food for thought. So I debated an HSA this annual insurance sign up. Here is the problem. After we meet out minummim out of pocket whole deductible. We are responsible for 20% thereafter. Now, if you don’t think you will be spending a lot of money on healthcare, that sounds like a good deal. But if you have a chronic disease, like me, that 20% is overwhelming, very quickly, I might add.

    1. That 20% is why people on Medicare have supplemental gap insurance.

  25. @Pat.Herve
    Since I don’t watch Fox… I probably missed it.

    However, I did find it somewhere else…the only place on the Web that I found it:
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/10/rumor-check-obamacare-website-might-be-glitchy-but-it-didnt-cost-634-million/

    Beck got it right.

    Found out where the original source got it: http://usaspending.gov/explore?tab=By+Prime+Awardee&fiscal_year=all&idvpiid=HHSM500200700015I&typeofview=detailsummary

    Whoever reported it originally must have used the entire budget.

    So I retract it…and stand corrected….so let me get this straight…this disaster cost 94 million dollars? Really? Even that amount is ridiculous. Whoever designed it…should be fired.

    1. The software was contracted out in different components. How do you fire a contractor?

      150+ components have to talk to each other, according to my friend. He worked with Medicaid so I don’t know how his end did.

  26. The 2012 election

    http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012

    Apparently Obama is a right wing nut job, just to the left of the almost tyrannical Mitt Romney.

    And Virgil Goode is at about the same level of authoritarianism as Hitler. He’s above Bashar Assad. Even the POPE…who IS a monarch.
    Really?

  27. Elena

    @Pat

    Employers get a tax break on the coverage they provide. THEY don’t pay taxes on benefits so it is a monetary advantage to provide coverage as well as it is a hiring incentive.

  28. Kelly_3406

    @pat Herve
    The insurance system of Massachusetts can coexist with Obamacare because it is so similar. However, a different state approach probably would not work, because Obamacare downward directs so many specifics. As for employer-provided insurance, the idea here is not to forbid it, but rather to provide incentives for businesses to make pre-tax payments to the employee instead. I would much rather get the money and choose my own insurance — it would remove my employer from my private medical decisions.

    @censored
    Medical coverage while in travel to a different state would be based on the home state’s coverage.

    @elena
    My hope would be that a market-based approach would result in lower costs. As a notional example, perhaps specialized companies would emerge to meet the specialized needs of certain communities: these companies could offer drugs and treatments in bulk to lower costs for those with for chronic diseases. This concept argues for allowing insurance companies to operate across state lines in order to get a sufficient number of clients in order to offer bulk services. For example, maybe the American Heart association could sell riders to standard insurance companies for treatment/drugs for heart patients.

Comments are closed.