Rachel Maddow traces the discovery of the missing ballots in Fairfax County, starting with Ben Tribbett’s declaration that it appeared that around 3,000 ballots were missing from District 8. Ben Tribbett is the blogmeister of NotLarrySabato blog as well as a local democratic.
The real crime here is the way those provisional ballots have to be counted. I have never heard of anyone having to go in person to defend their ballot. Several facts remain clear. Cuccinelli should have resigned as Attorney General. There is simply too much room for conflict of interest, especially with some of his prior …well..no nice way to say this, conflict of interest. He chose not to follow tradition and do the right thing.
For his office, therefore, Cuccinelli, to change the rules of the game in the middle of an election is simply unconscionable. Virginia should count the provisional ballots the same way they have always counted them. Ken Cuccinelli should not be still involved in adjudicating any part of the very race he was involved in.
In Fairfax County, the long standing practice has been that the voter or their representative must be present when the provisional ballot is counted. Now the State Board of Elections is saying the voter AND their representative must be present. It sounds to me like the SBE is changing horses mid-stream since they are making up new rules as they go along.
I feel badly for both Herring and Obenshain. Regardless of the outcome, the ‘non-winner’ is going to feel cheated and justifiably so. The rules need to be clear and consistent. The State Board of Elections should not be making up rules as they go along nor should the AG office be sending down new hoops to jump through.
This one is headed for court. There will also be a recount because things are just too close to count. Once again appointees rather than the people of Virginia will ultimately be deciding our Attorney General. The provisional ballots will be recounted until midnight tonight.
UPDATE: Mark Herring now leads by 117 votes. However, the votes are still being counted, person by person. The SBE website is a good source for all election news.
It will be interesting to find out how many of these provisional ballots are honored and why the voters were challenged in the first instance. I wonder if the Elections authority are reaching out to each voter to ensure that he/she knows that he has to defend the ballot in person. Fairfax is a big county. Even from where I live, getting over to the Government Center would not be easy.
In a lot of the more recent voter ID/suppression activities (I feel comfortable with the latter word given the attitudes of many of the more energetic sponsors of these measures), a huge problem is the absence of any outreach to people who are disenfranchised by the changes in ID requirements. I would be less inclined to criticize if new ID requirements were accompanied by a a sense of obligation to get new IDs to everyone who might be affected by the change in rules. But I have seen none of that.
Virginia purged its voting rolls of around 40,000 voters in the period before the election based on data indicating duplications in other jurisdictions and other indicators. Were some of the provisional ballots in the AG race necessary because of that purge? Was there a systematic outreach methodology designed to inform those purged from the rolls before the election, thus giving them time to rectify anomalies that may have caused them to be on the “deleted” list in the first place? Has everyone who submitted a provisional ballot in Fairfax been told by the State that they need to show up to defend the ballot? Has transportation been offered to get them from, say, the Fort Belvoir area over to Government Center and home again?
I hope there will either be clear answers to these kinds of questions or information indicating that concerns that the process was arbitrarily distorted by recent deletions from voter rolls (or new rules being imposed after the election) are groundless.
You bring up some really excellent points, Scout. I hope you will stay on this and report back.
On Facebook, Ben Tribbett speaks highly of the individual local election boards for their transparency and attempts to get things right, regardless of party affiliation.
This is good news to learn that local people are treating the problem seriously and professionally.
It’s pretty clear that Cuccinelli is trying to engineer a GOP win. The margin is down to 17 votes, and Fairfax is overwhelmingly Democratic, so every vote eliminated there is important.
This guy is really showing his stripes. Absolutely no sense of fair play- first no congratulatory call, and now stealing an election. I smell lawsuits!
I smell them too. The latest is that herring is now up by 117 votes.
It seems to be see-sawing.
The Fairfax electoral board is/was being sued by the Democratic party because of the 2012 election. They have come to an agreement to settle the law suit that was to become effective after this election, but I could think of a scenario or two that would prevent it from happening. I wonder if these new rules are an outcome of Hans von Spakovsky’s tenure on the board.
I am an election officer in Prince William County. Election officers were required to attend training to go over changes. When the purge was addressed, we were told that some States (Virginia is one) are now sharing voter registration rolls to determine if people were registered in more than one State. Where that was found, the local election officials mailed a letter to the last known Va address of the voter and informed them that they were registered in more than one State and to let the board know what was going on. 99% of those letters came back as undeliverable. Of the remaining 1%, the majority of those folks had moved, had registered elsewhere, and had moved back into VA. They were able to vote. We were also told if someone showed up and was not on our voter rolls, they would be supplied with a provisional ballet and would later be able to correct our records when they reported to the electoral board. If those folks were found to be legally able to vote, their provisional ballet would be counted.
It turns out that in those States that do not participate in sharing registration rolls, their voters are, in theory, able to register in more than one State and vote in every State that they are registered.
I have a high regard for Brian Schoenmann on the Board. I don’t know the others. I think Ben’s assessment of their dedication to getting it right is probably correct.
The Post story today indicates that the political parties know who the provisional voters are and are reaching out to them. That, to a large extent, allays my concern that one might not know if his/her provisional ballot was subject to a subsequent personal appearance. Nonetheless, I would prefer a system in which the government does the reaching out and does so to all voters equally.
I wondered if absentee ballots ever became provisional ballots. For example, what if you used pen instead of pencil or what if your writing couldn’t be read. They know how you voted on absentee also.
Wouldn’t your ballot go into the provisional pile if you didn’t have the right ID also or now do they not even give you a provisional if you don’t have all the credentials?
Interesting. We live in interesting times.
Mr Cuccinelli has to be one of the mat dishonest men ever to hold Virginia public office.
And the most egoististic!
The numbers haven’t changed at all at the SBE website.
Moonhowler
Sometimes the demands for objectivity get a bit ridiculous.
Anyone who voted would be involved. In fact, do you really think you would be any more objective than Cuccinelli? How would you prove it? With your blog? 😆
In any close election, why does it always come down to this? Why do Republicans always have to keep the Democrats from using suspect ballots to win the election? Don’t you think it odd how that wherever Democrats run the show, there are always more ballots to be found? How is it Democrats can never quite get the simple process of counting the vote done properly in the first place?
Look at where this is happening. Is Fairfax County too poor? Isn’t Fairfax County run by efficient, professional Democrats? No? Republicans are running Fairfax County? Republicans kept Democrats from voting? That’s a serious charge? No? Yet when Republicans resist, the Democrat news media starts name calling and making up nonsense.
When previous Attorney Generals in Virginia decided to step down to run for governor, why did they do it? Did it really have anything to do with counting the vote? Isn’t more likely they just wanted to concentrate on the election? Maybe so they could raise money? Did you notice how much McAuliffe raise? However, we all know the Republican Party is the party of the rich. So Cuccinelli just must have been a bad candidate. 🙄
Is it hanging chads all over again? And again. And again… I suppose it is this time, but there is no reason to worry this will go on forever. Once Democrats have total control, what will keep every county from find all the votes needed to make certain the Democrats win? The rules? Don’t Democrats believe every (Democrat) vote should count? Isn’t that the only rule?
Actually., I have no idea what you are talking about, CT.
Cuccinelli should have stepped down. It keeps things on the up and up.
All things considered, I believe I have been fairly neutral on my coverage of this issue. I don[‘t believe I have finger pointed at anyone other than whoever came up with the plan that people had to show up in person to validate their provisional ballot.
Let’s see, where did that ruling come from?
Hmmmmm…..SBE. And where did THEY get the directive???? Double Hmmmmmm
Why is it that you think Democrats screwed up? Who knows who screwed up. For one, a machine screwed up. I believe mistakes were made. NO one accused anyone of anything nefarious or underhanded. You are mighty quick to finger point.
Tom – the reason previous AGs almost always resigned prior to running is that they realized that they simply could not give full attention to their duties as Attorney General while pursuing a political campaign. Part of the issue is time, but the larger problem is that decisions that an Attorney General must make about defense of the Commonwealth in litigation or, in some cases, taking an offensive posture in litigation, have, or are perceived to have, political overtones and that it is best if there be no ambiguity about the motivation of those decisions.
In a close election like the current AG contest, why do you assume that it is the Democratic ballots that are “suspect”? It is a hairbreadth contest. Why would one party’s votes be any more suspect than the other’s? Why is a close election an indication of Democratic skullduggery than Republican skullduggery? Why is it not simply a close election with no particular deviousness attributable to either party?
It is not uncommon for AGs in Virginia to have their sights on higher office. The reason they invariably (prior to this one) resign when they officially announce their intentions is that, if they are at all conscientious about their jobs, they realize that every situation in which they involve the Commonwealth as a plaintiff, or any situation in which the Commonwealth is a defendant, has political overtones that are best not compromised, in reality or perception, by questions as to whether the motivations for the legal position are political. This particular AG has been far more political in the contexts in which he has involved the Commonwealth as a plaintiff. Many of these cases have resulted in defeats for the Commonwealth in the courts. But it has left both Mr. Cuccinelli and Virginia vulnerable to the charge that he uses the office as a taxpayor-subsidized arm of his campaign for higher office. That concern is easily avoided by simply stepping aside once the ambition for higher things crystallizes into a determined intent to seek the Governor’s office. The Commonwealth does not need people of any party who use the offices of the State as tax-subsidized platforms for leapfrogging to the next level of personal ambition.
The principle controlling this race is that every vote should count once. Democrat or Republican or Independent or Write-in. It appears to this point that the uncertainties are related to tabulation errors. These can be sorted through accurately by men of good will. Let’s let that happen.
“In any close election, why does it always come down to this? Why do Republicans always have to keep the Democrats from using suspect ballots to win the election?”
That’s quite a generalization. “Always”……..?
What Tom doesn’t say explicitly, but which is implicit in his statement, is that there are Republicans (not my type, but they certainly exist) to whom every Democratic ballot is “suspect.” This is why we have these infernal, inherently self-defeating, “Voter ID” initiatives. They assume that within any Democratic segment of the electorate there is a considerable element of fraudulent voting and that a paring down of the electorate with new ID requirements will disproportionally work a diminution of Democratic votes. Because any reliable statistics of which I’m aware make pretty clear that there is virtually no voter ID fraud in America, the real result is simply to shrink the rolls when the new rules prevent receipt of new IDs by people who don’t have the mobility or information or whatever to get to the distribution points.
The problem we’re having in this election appears to be a tabulation problem with some human error in running Voting machine tapes thrown in on top. Because most of these problems (numerically) are happening in Fairfax County, a Democratic leaning jurisdiction, it stands to reason that the corrected votes counts are going to have a significant number of Democratic votes. That leads irrational ideologues to cry foul. But, if you think about why and where the votes were earlier misreported, it would most likely be a corrupt result if the new totals came in favoring Republican candidates. In that case, as illogical and counterintuitive as it would seem, I doubt that Tom and his buds would be waving the bloody corruption shirt.
I thought his assertions were simply absurd. No one directly involved in the local process is crying foul. It’s all in Tom’s head.
IN fact, ben Trippett, who has been directly involved, speaks highly of the transparency and professionalism of the people involved, both parties.
@Moon-howler
Neutral? And you don’t know what I am talking about. Yeah. Sure.
Citizen Tom, not only do *I* not know what you are talking about, it appears that YOU don’t know what you are talking about.
No one but you has accused anyone of doing anything sneaking or nefarious with ballots. The local election boards are controlled by Republicans because the Governor is a Republican. 1D 2 Rs,
There will rightfully be a recount. The time for campaigning is over. The people have voted. What will happen, will happen.
Now get over your partisan self.
@Scout
Actually, I don’t recall anyone charging Cuccinelli with neglecting his office. Because he was doing his job, those folks were too busy calling him an extremist.
Is every Democratic ballot suspect? Yes. Is every Republican and Independent ballot suspect. Yes.
In the U.S.A. we spend over six trillion dollars every year on government. In addition to spending huge sums, the decisions politicians make have an inordinate amount of effect on the way we live our lives. That’s why elections are extremely important, and that’s why we always have to be on the lookout for fraud. Doesn’t the very fact you spend so much time writing about this speak for itself? Yet you have the pure silliness to write this.
Requiring people to prove they have a right to vote and vote only once is inherently self-defeating? And assuming that everyone is going to be honest is not unrealistic?
Not protecting the vote is dumber than operating a bank without providing any way to protect the money in the bank. There is also much more involved than just humongous sums of money. There is also our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Do I think Democrats dishonest? Sure. For example, redistributing the wealth is stealing. Yet today’s Democrats deal with that subject the same way past Democrats dealt with the immorality of slavery. They refuse to justify the morality of their deeds. They just pretend the majority has the right to do what it wants.
Do I think Republicans dishonest? Some of them, yes. Some Republicans acquiesce to deeds that are clearly immoral. That includes redistributing the wealth, not protecting the border, and not protecting our right to freely exercise our religious beliefs.
And no. I don’t hate government. I just realize the truth of a principle of economics. Look up this phrase: “diminishing margins of return.” When we insist that government give us our “rights,” government will use that power to take away our God-given rights.
CT, Would you be one of those people howling about having to show that you have the right to own or carry a gun?
What on earth are you talking about with Democrats and slavery?
So let’s see…all Democrats are dishonest and some Republicans are dishonest. What about the Independents? Are do they do?
I am one who called Cuccinelli an extremist. Why? Because he is. He has extreme views on government role in people’s lives, for example. You might want him in your bedroom but I don’t want him in mine.
I also don’t want him as the state gynecologist.
@Moon-howler
Go back and read what I wrote. I did not say the ballots were good, bad, or indecent. Because the ballots are suspicious and come from a partisan county, they require serious investigation. Why do you think the ballots are provisional?
On the other hand, consider what you have said about our Attorney General. That’s neutral?
Perhaps it is you who needs to go back and reread. I never said I was neutral about Cuccinelli. I said that I had been neutral about the attorney general race once there was a dispute over ballot count. I certainly was not neutral during the race. Once it was over, I took a neutral position over the ballot counting. I think there should be a recount regardless of who wins. It is too close not to have one. Whoever doesn’t win will feel cheated as it is.
I don’t think people are inherently dishonest over voting either.
Tom – how is Fairfax a “partisan County”? How are ballots cast there “suspicious”? Come on, man. Somewhere up in your rambles above you said that every ballot is “suspect”. I disagree. Every ballot is a normal right of citizenship in a democratic republic, as normal as taking a breath.
How much voter ID fraud occurred in Virginia in the 2012 Presidential election, Tom? What percentage of the votes were fraudulent? If you don’t like that particular election, choose any statewide election in the last thirty years and tell me which one was affected by fraud in which people pretending to be registered voters swarmed the polls. Once we have that data bit on board, we perhaps can discuss what appropriate measures would be to control this.
No one has any problem with an effective system of voter IDs. But if you change the rules, then there is a concomitant obligation to make replacement IDs available at no cost and no inconvenience to anyone so as to prevent new requirements from disenfranchising eligible voters.
We all should be energetically talking about how to get more citizens to vote, not about how to get fewer people to vote.