Donald Sterling has been banned for life from the NBA.
Question: Presumably, Sterling assumed he was having a private conversation. Do we have the right to punish people for private conversation, regardless of how repugnant that conversation is?
I think Sterling is a pig but I struggle with the notion that Americans cannot have private conversations without the public’s prying eye. Help me through this obvious psuh me/pull me feeling. I had the same conflict with Dawg the Bounty Hunter. He assumed his conversation was private.
Absolutely people are responsible for their public words.
Good decision. Couldn’t have gone hardly any other way, really.
I would have made it “indefinite” rather than “for life:, as he could theoretically admit wrong, take responsibility, and change. But pragmatically this makes more sense. End the sideshow.
Moon, this is analogous to Dawg the Bounty Hunter openly telling someone that he didn’t want black people watching his show. IF he actually ran a television network. And went over to the PR department and gave them a directive not to use black people in any advertisements. This isn’t just a free speech issue, it’s about an executive of a company holding consumers in open disdain.
And in the NBA of all places. This is about as tenable as a NASCAR team voicing support for Al Quaida.
“Do we have the right to punish people for private conversation, regardless of how repugnant that conversation is?”
Certainly a sports league can and should hold its owners accountable for things like this, as it holds its players and coaches.
They’ve fined players repeatedly during the course of this season, as in any other season, for things that were overseen or overheard in public. I.e. Kobe or J. Noah calling someone the f-word while on court.
Think of it this way Moon – if he was a manager of people at a company, managing a diverse workforce, and he sent an email to his girlfriend that showed disdain for minorities and a desire not to be seen with them, and she shared the email, do you think he should keep that job?
Good call by the NBA
Don’t tick off your mistress. Maybe there’s a reason not to have one. Don’t discriminate in housing. Maybe there’s a reason not to. Don’t say unkind things about people based on race. Maybe there’s a reason not to.
This is not a man who happened to be taped making a few bad word choices – this is a man with quite a history of nastiness and it became a lifestyle. His choice all the way.
@Rick Bentley
The F-bomb while on court is a public statement. they should be held accountable.
I haven’t stated my position on all this. I don’t feel the least bit sorry for him.
I suppose my question really does go to the heart of what is really private conversation and what isn’t. Dawg gags me but he did think he was involved in a private conversation. He gags me even without his “telephone” problems.
Mr. Duck, on the other hand, was making a public statement to start with as was Mr. Bundy. Those are pretty clear cut.
He actually knew she was taping him, believe it or not. While they were in the same room. Presumably she was doing this to keep track of what sugar daddy promises he was making to her – after all, he is 80 years old.
Funny how its all coming out that his bigotry was well known inside the NBA, but NOW…..off with his head.
Knowing something and knowing what to do about it are not the same thing.
This punishment mete out by the NBA did not require any courage at all. Its business interests perfectly aligned with desires of the players and the larger political and moral concerns of the fans. It was really easy to ban a clueless curmudgeon like Sterling who was cheating on his wife and spouting racist nonsense. He is not a sympathetic figure.
I found the self-congratulatory attitude of the NBA and its players to be a little distasteful. The definition of ethics is doing the right thing when it is hard or costly (and also when no one is looking). It will be instructive to see how future cases are handled when the racist is a popular or sympathetic figure.
Kelly, I have to agree with you on this one. This story actually bores me. “Clueless curmudgeon” is an apt description.
He is not a sympathetic character at all. No one will shed a tear.
I still struggle with the idea of private conversations but I dont much care in his case…I dont care enough to investigate it.
Read that she has many more hours of tape. Hope she doesn’t share.
“I found the self-congratulatory attitude of the NBA and its players to be a little distasteful.”
I agree with you that the decision was logical, and more or less likely. But the players didn’t expect it. They didn’t expect a commissioner to turn on an owner, on one of the people who pays his salary – it hasn’t really happened in sports before. So what you are perceiving as self-congratulatory rhetoric I think really is ; A. Relief, and B. Justified pride at being part of a multi-cultural thing that brings people together.
The two things that rankle me are :
1. I’m tired of hearing the Clippers players portrayed as some type of heroes who have suffered. We all have to deal in our lives with knowing we’re working for a jerk. What these guys feel or felt is interesting, but not some extraordinary tragedy.
2. Sick to death of Doc Rivers on camera doing his usual self-promotional “look at me I’m a leader of men” hype man schtick, and tied of hearing people talk about him and praise him. Rivers makes me want to throw up. But I felt that way prior to this Sterling issue.
Meanwhile let me put in a good word for the Washington Wizards, a good young team full of hard-working guys who play with effort and discipline, who advanved to the next round of the playoffs last night, and who are very easy to cheer for.
Heh, I heard on the radio yesterday that there are some people who object to the name “Wizards” because it reminds them of the leadership title in the KKK.
Harry Potter must have driven them crazy then.
That’s one reason it was a bad name choice. It was picked from fan submissions, because “Bullets” was considered a bad name (“Washington Bullets” had become a common phrase referring to American imperialism). And no one ever understood why.
Nationals and Redskins aren’t such great names either IMO.
Ha! I always thought it was because the murder rate was so high in DC.
Todays ultimate social crime: ‘Speaking while White’
Well, where have you been?
Welcome back, SA.
Are you the lone supporter of Sterling?
If you want me to feel sorry for you, forget it. No one is preventing you from speaking your mind because you are white. You can say whatever you want. But I don’t have to listen. Your right to speak is not a right to heard.
I’m pretty tolerant on free speech, but at some point we’re held accountable for the things we say and do.
Sterling seems like the kind of guy who would take a liking to Korean tenants, then rename a complex “Korea Town”, and hire armed Korean-born guards to stand at the door and try to keep non-Koreans from wanting to live there. Oh wait … he really did that!
White people have the right to say all kinds of things. Including hateful things, and things that disparage other people. That take away others’ humanity systematically so as to feel superior. Don’t believe me? Just turn to FOX News and watch it for a little while.
Whoooooooooooooo! See, you see what I mean. My point is that most racial comments tend to be ignored if they come from a non-white individual. Case in point is the recent radio broadcast where a Black congressman basically called all Republicans racists, yet you haven’t seen any coverage of that. I rest my case!
And for Starry, it was a take off on ‘Driving while Black’ that is a phrase that has been used so much that it has been shortened to ‘DWB’ by some Black comedians. The difference is that while ‘Driving while Black’ may get you pulled over, ‘Speaking while White’ can destroy your life!
Now do you get it? Oh, never mind.
SA, if a Congressman said that all republicans are racist, it’s a stupid comment. He’s probably not fit to be a Congressman. However, I’m not terribly worked up about it as I expect the worst of our Congressmen.
It’d be analogous to Sterling if he urged whites in his district not to vote for him, and chided campaign workers for taking pictures with white supporters.
Ok Rick, what if Sterling had been Black. Do you think the same outrage would have taken place? Somehow I doubt it. So, if the congressman isn’t fit for the job, then why isn’t he removed from the job just like Sterling? After all, that affects more people than a sporting event.
If Sterling had been black and owned say a baseball team and was proven to have made similar statements, I think that it would be a very big story in that town, and would be a national story. Though not as big of one.
But for a more complete analogy, this should be a black guy owning a NASCAR team or racetrack. And saying something that cuts at the core of the people who race for him – such as support for Islamic terrorists. Then it’s at least as big of a story. And FOX News anchors are having apoplectic fits about how this is the fault of crazy liberals.
I’m glad you brought up some more examples, because that congressman I refried to earlier was speaking on a Lewis Faracon support radio station. Now, does that make it a more outrageous story, or are you still unmoved. He had no business being on that station to begin with. What if the KKK had a supporting radio station and a GOP’er made racist remarks while speaking on air. Talk about double standards, and that’s why I say it’s only a crime if you are ‘Speaking while White’.
Okay, SA, I looked the story up. Congressman Bennie Thompson.
I wouldn’t tend to vote for the guy. I think he’s stupid. What more do you want? It’s not hate speech. Should anyone who speaks in such simplifications own an NBA team, or any large business with a PR component to it? No.
I know you’re correct that there are double standards about what people can say, that involve “racial” issues, without causing anger.
I’m in favor of letting people talk openly about these things.
Meanwhile we as a society do spend too much time going in circles chasing false narratives. The one narrative where whites are mostly “racist” and that this is the primary issue facing African-Americans. And the other where the whites are being oppressed by political correctness and that some type of “truth” is being suppressed.
I almost totally agree with you Rick, except the last part. I do feel, and have seen it happen many times in the news, that if a White man says anything negative at all about Blacks in general no matter how much data or statistics can support the comment, he is vilified. Even Blacks are attacked and referred to as Uncle Toms as did this congressman referring to Clarence Thomas. I guess the bottom line is you either praise them, or say nothing, and that is where the “oppressed by political correctness” comes into play.
SA you’re talking to a white guy who married a black woman, whose grandson he has helped raise is black. I’ve got more black friends and family than white. I feel comfortable in either crowd. So I feel that I am able to provide a decent perspective on black vs. white culture issues.
I do think that sometimes black people blame things on race that aren’t racial. I think it sometimes inhibits a person’s growth. Sometimes. I’ve been saying that for a long time – sometimes ticking my black friends off.
And now I see white people doing it too. It’s exactly analogous. This whole FOX News victim mentality is absurd. This desire to see the working poor as part of some conspiracy against capitalism. So THAT’S why the world looks different than it did when I was young, and why we can’t cut my taxes without accruing debt! Because the poor people don’t want to work, and the Democrats have them strung out on welfare. Yes it all makes sense now. That’s why my world isn’t what I want it to be.
I think we should all be free to explore arguments, even arguments that are arguably or technically racist. (Does a “level playing field” imply a tie score? I don’t think so. Are whites more intelligent than blacks on average? And Asians more than whites?). I’m for freedom of speech generally. I’m with you on all that. I think at the end of the road though when a person works through all the nonsense that we’re all people, and most of the (political) arguments that pit people against each other in groups are stupid. And that we all have a personal responsibility to judge people as individuals and not to stereotype.
Beyond data and statistics, there’s a point of view expressed by Paul Mooney that is worth remembering. Which is, “I think black people are doing pretty well in America actually considering that not all that long ago you guys would whip us for trying to learn how to read”.
I guess you see Clarence Thomas the way I see Jimi Hendrix. As someone who suffered in some measure because he didn’t conform to race stereotypes, and who annoyed black people for “acting white”. Fair enough. At the same time, I think Thomas’ reasoning is frequently specious, and he may well be an “Uncle Tom” to one degree or another. I wouldn’t know. My heart isn’t bleeding for him. He’s got a nice job and I don’t believe his life is in any danger; it doesn’t seem like a tragedy to me that some people don’t like him.
I know that what you’re saying about not being able to speak openly is how many white people feel. I wish we could collectively find a way to bridge that gap. The black people that I know and talk to see the world on the whole just a little bit differently than the white ones, but not in sinister ways.
Meanwhile I’m quite sure that the world is going to continue to turn, society will become more and more integrated, and each succeeding generation is going to see America is less and less race-based terms.
Interesting and patient comment, Rick. I think you are in an interesting position to speak from a point of view most of us can’t.
Well said Rick, well said.
Why should our government bother to be oppressive and tyrannical when it comes to speech when we already have a cadre of citizens willing to sell each other out over private thoughts and words?
I will continue to struggle with this one. Contemptible human being vs free speech? I am not totally there yet.
The issue here has something to do with context. Sterling owns a team in the NBA, a league driven by African-American talent.
I am not into this whole vibe of pretending that this experience is landmark or traumatizing. But it is disturbing, surely, for the guys on his team and the fans who cheer for them. It’s as if you or I woke up one day and found out that the President of whatever company we work for cheers for Al Quaida, and holds America in contempt.
I don’t feel any sympathy for him because he’s so obviously a contemptible human being, on examination – the numerous racist quotes uttered in semi-public settings, the “Koreatown” incident and settlement, the stories of him hecking his own players and bringing in people to ogle those players while he talked about their “fine bodies” as if they were racehorses … all of that, but to me the most mind-boggling … having his wife sue his mistresses after he was done with them to get his money back. The man is scum, and I don’t use that phrase often. This is karma.
Why are you letting the woman off the hook? She is contemptible, too.
Can you truthfully say that you have never said anything to your intimates that you would never want anyone in polite society to hear?
@Rick Bentley
She is contemptible but she doesn’t own an NBA team. She is held to a lesser standard. Also, until very recently, no one knew much about her at all.
The woman … yes, on that subject …
I don’t think she’s all that terrible a person. yes, she is a “gold digger”. yes, she uses sexual and/or romantic wiles and wares to get old men to buy her things – big things. If you call her a w*ore, fair enough.
But I don’t think that makes her all that bad a person.
As to “leaking” the “tape”, she did it out of anger when he (and his “wife”) sued her to get back the gifts he had given her. Red hot flaming anger. I don’t think that’s so bad either. His behavior is so absurd, that I think some form of anger is the only possible reaction. She doesn’t appear to have played this for maximum benefit to herself.
Emma, Donald Sterling isn’t really getting reamed out here because of a single recorded conversation, and his anxiety at his fair princess soiling her image with black males. The story resonates because he is an absolutely horrible person.
Let’s not let the wife off the hook either. She puts up with a whore-mongering old goat of a husband and then goes in cahoots with her husband to get back his lavish spending on his ladies? (not the first time either) She is just as much of a pig as he is.
He buried a lot of other extremely sleazy stuff in court, and the other NBA owners were afraid to try to get rid of the guy because he is a litigious creep. But he finally got caught in a situation that he couldn’t bury with lawsuits, by settling and casting doubt on claims. Finally got caught with something he couldn’t obfuscate his way out of. I think it’s funny.
I hope somebody rolled tape on his racist wife too. They are both scum – not for racist comments. For the totality of their being.
I read comments in reverse order…from behind the scenes. It looks like we both agreed on the wife, Rick.