Richard Martinez said:

Our family has a message for every parent out there: You don’t think it will happen to your child until it does. Why did Chris die? Chris died because of craven, irresponsible politicians and the NRA. They talk about gun rights, what about Chris’ right to live?

When will this insanity stop? When will enough people say: Stop this madness, we don’t have to live like this? Too many have died. We should say to ourselves — not one more.

We can feel Richard Martinez’s anguish.  However,  There is more to it than craven politicians and the NRA.  Is it time to put some limits on who can buy a gun?  Right now, pretty much anyone who is in the United States legally who has not been convicted of a felony can buy and own a gun.  Should there be more proof of sanity, for lack of a better word?  Should there be certification that the potential purchaser at least knows how to shoot the gun and to take proper care of it?  We do this for drivers.

There are over 30,000 gun deaths a year–half as many as were killed from 1955-1975 in the Vietnam Conflict over a 20 year period.  In fact, death by gunshot is the third leading cause of death in the US.  Vehicle related deaths and poisonings are ahead of gunshot wounds.  Approximately 65% are from suicides.  That leaves a staggering 35% to accidents and manslaughter and murder.  Somewhere in this statistic we see that too many deaths are from crazies on a shooting rampage.   The answer won’t just come from the gun sector.  The answer must come from the mental illness sector also and how we as a society treat those with mental illness.  Those advocates are just as vocal at times as gun rights enthusiasts.

Your thoughts?

78 Thoughts to “A grieving father’s response”

  1. Steve Thomas

    Moon-howler :Ed, one more thing…if someone is coming at you with a weapon of some sort and you have every reason to think that person will do you harm, would you think it was immoral, after warning them to stop, to blow a hole in that person?
    Tazers can kill also.

    In a case like this, one would have to decide quickly. According to the FBI, an assailant can cover 21 feet in the time it would take you to identify them as a threat, and react.

  2. Steve Thomas

    ed myers :I’m not against gun ownership or even the use of guns to defend oneself. Yes, I make allowances for one to defend by killing an attacker. I just think the needle has swung so far in the direction of advocating fighting violence with violence instead of advocating finding alternatives to violence, including requiring people to attempt to flee before using deadly force. We have made it too easy to kill someone and claim self defense.
    If you are in a date rape situation, do you really think a gun is going to make things better or is it likely the gun will be used against you? And how do we sort it out in the end? Was the survivor the innocent one protecting themselves or were they the perpetrator? Expect sexism to play a key role.

    These comments further demonstrate the lack of fact-based knowledge, or even understanding threats. In a date-rape situation? Really? Is the date-rapist any different from a stranger-rapist? How about reading up on some of the news reports where people who are under actual physical assault (sexual, home-invasion, mugging, pick-one) can and do draw or retrieve a firearm and end the assault…many times without even having to fire a shot.

    How do we sort it out? Try the justice system. Here’s something you don’t understand about most gun-owners: They understand the law where they live. They also understand that once they pull the trigger, they will be subject to the law. They know that unless there is no question, say a guy in a ski-mask dead on your bedroom floor, knife in his hand, and you with a defensive stabwound, they can count on being arrested. They understand that the police are doing their job. They understand that the shooting will be investigated, and there is a strong chance that they will be charged. Every action will be questioned, and will have to be answered. Did the citizen do anything that may have contributed to the attack? Was the citizen in a place where he or she had a legal right to be? Was the threat such that a “reasonable man” would conclude that death or serious bodily harm might result from the actions of the assailant? Even if found innocent, or “not guilty”, there is the prospect of the costs of defending oneself in the courts. Also, the assailant may try to sue for violations of their civil rights, or the assailants family may bring civil action.

    You see, Ed, this is why deadly force is NEVER my first option, unless it is clearly, the ONLY option. This is why, in addition to my military training (which is ill-suited for civilian self-defense), I receive regular self-defense training from an NRA certified instructor, which also includes threat awareness & avoidance. This is why I practice at the range at a minimum, monthly. This is why I carry an insurance policy especially for post-shooting legal defense. This is why my spouse and I regularly practice what to do if we are assaulted in public, or in our home….and if you’d bother to check it out, this is what the NRA, GOA, USCCA, and all of the reputable firearms training providers prescribe as being a responsible armed-citizen. Why, because real world examples are constantly analyzed, and this response is currently the best response.

  3. Steve Thomas

    “Plexiglass that makes home intrusion even with a gun very difficult. – Expensive to refit a home that way.”

    Cargo, if it will stand up to a brick, crow-bar, or gun-shot, it will be problematic to a fire-fighter during a rescue, which is why fire-codes in many places restrict the use of this type of material. Anything designed to keep people out, will also keep you in, during a time when you are trying to get out.

  4. Steve Thomas

    “I can think of one instance where I was with someone who is a regular contributor to this blog. A potentially questionable situation came up with a stranger who seemed a little too eager to be friendly, fairly late in the evening in a neighbhood that had a few problem sites. I assumed he/she was carrying and wasn’t too worried about an ugly situation going bad. I also knew that person knew how to handle himself (giving up on hiding the gender) in those types of situations. Another reassurance.”

    Moon, I had a very similar experience: I had just finished an excellent dinner with a good friend. You know, the kind of friend where the conversation never ends, and you lose track of time. Well, the restaurant closed, and we decided to continue catching up outside. While we were chatting, I noticed a “sketchy” character approaching, who had just moments before been chatting with another “sketchy” character who was still standing about 75 feet away. I had seen them exit a “sketchy” hotel, known for its criminal activity. (Just previous to this night, it had been the scene of a swat stand-off).

    So, the guy walks up and tries to engage in conversation. I saw this as we were being “cased” or given a close look. I made sure to look him straight in the face, acknowledge that I had seen and heard him, and answered him in a sober and assured manner…to let him know that I was alert, and not timid. I also discretely moved my hand to sweep my jacket back a bit. He looked at both of us, and left the area. My friend asked me if I “was packing”, and expressed satisfaction that I was.

    My friend’s mobility is not so good. If we were assaulted, fleeing may have been an option for me, but not for her. Going Mano-y-mano with a single unarmed individual is a gamble, and a losing prospect when his friend joined the fray, which would have taken less than 6 seconds. Faster than I could dial 911. The restaurant was closed, so no help coming from there. Would have been me and my friend, vs. two grown men, who may or may not be armed. Krav Maga, Mace, Stun-gun, none of these would have been sufficient in this situation. What was sufficient was awareness, body-language, composure, attitude…. and contrary to Ed’s contention, I was quite happy that I didn’t have to meet force, with force.

  5. Steve Thomas

    “Lots of things have greatly reduced the need for a gun as a (hopefully you’ll agreed) last resort defense (although with Steve, a gun seems the first resort.) ”

    I am not aware of such a magical place, where good-will drenches all it touches like a morning dew. Where everyone is satisfied with what they have, and the predatory instincts of a criminal mind are things spoken of in fairy-tales. Where children aren’t snatched off the streets, women aren’t raped, people aren’t robbed, dogs don’t get loose and attack passers-bye. Where home-invasions don’t occur. Where drug-addicts don’t rob and kill to fund their habits. Were average 911 response times are measured in seconds, instead of tens-of-minutes. I would love to live in such a wonderful place. Please tell me where it is, so I can jump on my eco-friendly unicorn and go there.

  6. ed myers

    I must live in a magical place as I have never experienced any of the dangers you seem to think are everyday personal threats. I have never been in a situation where I wished I had a gun and have never been robbed, raped, or even assaulted. I’ve traveled the world: Africa, Philippines, Mexico, Europe and every state in the union with family. I’ve been a victim of theft but not violent crime.

    Certainly I don’t hang around people who are trouble magnets and that includes people who are always packing heat. I don’t associate with people who are violent or party hardy. I don’t make myself a target in a rough neighborhood. Why you choose to not first get into the safety of your car to continue your conversation illustrates the elevated risk taking that accompanies gun possession.

    Violent crime is really rare and dropping (because of the reasons I outlined plus demographics.) It seems like people who carry guns unconsciously seek (or invent) confrontations in order to justify to themselves that they need to carry their testosterone enhancer.

    The crime I worry about is cyber crime and guns are useless in those situations.

  7. @Steve Thomas
    It sounds like your friend was lucky to have you around. Sketchy characters love to prey on people they assume are defenseless. Non-timid people who exert self assuredness and might be packing heat, not so much. Sketchy characters do risk assessment also. I bet they figured you weren’t worth it to them.

  8. @ed myers

    Safe areas can change in a matter of blocks. I live on a safe, crime free street, I think. I can’t remember the last time there was any trouble on my street. However, other people come into the neighborhood because of an attraction way down at the end of the street. I feel very safe but I wouldn’t go out walking alone at midnight. Its just a smart thing for older women to do.

    I know Steve and I don’t see him as a balls to the wall kind of shoot first, ask questions later kind of guy. I don’t agree with him, as is evidenced here, on some gun issues. but I do feel he is a responsible gun owner.

    I have made some people who have come to my house turn their guns over to me if they wanted to come in. When I went to the door and saw them, I just held out my hand, they knew and forked over their weapons. I would not think of asking Steve to do that. I trust him.

  9. ed myers

    Although I have never needed a gun for protection I have been in several situations where gun owners were irresponsible. I was walking on our farm as a child and hunters started shooting at a deer and I saw bullets kick up dirt within 10 feet of me. An in-law brought his gun to a picnic to do some shooting and wasn’t careful about the backdrop. Sheriff deputies showed up later with a complaint from the neighbor about bullets flying his way. The window in our house was broken by a stray bullet.

    A high school friend killed himself with a gun. Another high school acquaintance was murdered with a gun. We regularly have accidental gun discharge reports in the police blotter.

    There is a big deficit on my personal gun benefit v risk spreadsheet and I’m angry at gun owners that believe they have a God-given and constitutional right to increase my risk of being harmed or injured via gun to satisfy their own personal needs. There should at least be a heavy excise tax on ammo and guns just like we tax other vices like smoking or drinking to offset the broader cost gun owners place on society.

    1. I don’t think you are making an unreasonable request. I have certainly seem irresponsible gun owners in my life. I am not sure, however, that gun laws would have prevented much of that from happening.

      I agree with you about the God-given right mentality though. Much of what bothers me about all this is attitude and refusal to work towards sensible remedies for rampage shootings. Just pretending to give a crap might be the place to start.

      I do not want to round up guns or make it difficult for responsible citizens to own guns. I don’t want it to be automoatic either. I have no problem with waiting periods or taxes on ammo. I also think it should be more difficult to order some guns off the internet.

  10. Wolve

    Don’t be too confident about those vehicles equipped with all kinds of fancy alarms and special keyless locks. They certainly can defeat most car jackers by themselves. However, the jackers are adjusting. Now they seem to be waiting until you come back to the vehicle and then put a gun to your head as you open the car for them — or order you out if you are already in the vehicle and about to go.

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