Chris Hayes is a fairly reasonable guy. I tend to listen to him and often agree with him. Tonight he introduced us to the “perp,” Trey Simms and his aunt, Stacy Bigley. More of the story unfolds.
Now, I just have to ask. What is it about Manassas? Why does some wild and crazy penis story always seem to have its epicenter in Manassas? Is it in the water? I expected this story to go national, and it has.
There are still more questions than answers. None of this is makes sense, starting with the charges. Stay tuned. I am sure there is more to come. Charges have not been dropped but plans to use the dreaded artificial erection method of extracting information have been dropped.
Will we ever learn what really happened? Probably not. I am going to bet on MY theory though. Apparently that is what Stacy Bigley thinks happened also. Sorry folks, I have just known too many teenage girls in my life to think otherwise.
The story seems to be gaining clarity. At least to me.
Child porn charges against a kid for photographing his own dick? It’s his dick to photograph.
Was told repeatedly to stop texting photos … hey did they try taking the daughter’s phone away or blocking his number? Or do we go straight to labeling the boy a sexual predator.
“Epidemic” of sexting … I’m not so sure the “problem” is a real problem. Increasingly on reflection I don;t think that it adds up to a can of beans.
This is looking like a GROSS abuse of power. Paul Ebert, explain yourself.
I agree with some of what you said. Why can’t the kid take a picture of himself? That isn’t manufacturing child pornography. That part of this complaint is pure BS.
Not sure it is in Eberts hands but it is an abuse of power and could have been handled by the parents.
I’m not at all thinking this is a proper use of my tax dollars to defend someone’s daughter from exposure to sex or what a guy’s dick looks like. In fact this is insane.
All this fuss over a kid’s dick … no allegations of bullying. No allegations of harassment. the charges are manufacturing and distributing child pornography.
If he was distributing a picture of her to others, then I could see a problem, but for sending her a picture of himself? Give me a break.
This seems like a case that should have been settled between the parents/guardians. Both phones should have been taken away. There are probably thousands of phones around the country that should be taken away for similar reasons. Kids need to understand that relationships break up and think about the consequences of having taken these photos before these relationships go bad. There will be a plethora of these images floating around on the web, but the harm to this younger generation may be no worse than having answered “Yes, I smoked a few joints when I was young” was to my generation. It doesn’t stop anyone from getting a job – even with a police department or the Executive Office of the US – if it wasn’t recent.
It’s an outrage of epic proportions! This is not a natter for our police or courts to get involved in
“Kids need to understand that relationships break up and think about the consequences of having taken these photos before these relationships go bad. ”
Probably good or decent advice, but I really don’t think a pic of a penis or a vagina or something like that adds up to anything. I think there’s a generational disconnect about this. We grew up in an era of Penthouse paying big bucks for Vanessa Williams or Madonna nude, and Hustler’s “Beaver Hunt” – nude picture as exotic artifact. These things have little value now; the web is littered with them. I think this is much ado by older people about nothing.
I think as parents, its probably something we don’t want our kids doing. However, its pretty much up to me to enforce that rule in my house. I shouldn’t expect the cops to make my kid not to take pictures of their own “parts.” Now, if some kid takes the picture and distributes it of someone else, then that is a different matter. Whole new ballgame.
BFD. By the way, if you want to see Brett Favre’s penis, click this link at your discretion – http://www.massholesports.com/2010/10/brett-favre-penis-photos-alleged-photos.html
Which is nothing. If you’re really inclined you can watch R. Kelly have oral and vaginal sex with, and then pee on, an underaged girl who I think was in his custody. Though technically it’s child pornography. A lot of people downloaded it anyway (not me).
It’s a different world.
“It’s a different world.”
I agree with this bit of your statement…but the word I chose is “nihilistic”, and I will not contribute to it by saying “oh well, we’d just better learn to deal with it”.
On the general issue of sex becoming deromanticized and commoditized … I don’t think that’s nihilistic. I think it may be healthy for the species.
If two kids play doctor electronically and send pics of their genitals, where exactly is the harm in that?
I don’t necessarily think its harmful but I think there are components that could get out of hand. Once those genital pictures are shared with anyone else, there is a problem. I don’t know what label I would use there is all sorts of room for abuse. Still, is this something we want the police involved in, as long as it is between two consenting kids? I say no.
“If two kids play doctor electronically and send pics of their genitals, where exactly is the harm in that?”
Because it’s child porn. You can put all the sugar you want on a turd. It won’t change the fact that it’s a turd.
I think labeling it child porn when two kids by mutual consent exchange pictures is rather aggressive and over-kill.
Steve, if we change the law so that it’s not child porn if it goes kid-to-kid, where is the harm?
The harm is when the pictures are no longer in the sole control of Kid 1, or Kid 2. Say it’s Kid 3, or Adult 1? Say Kid 1 is 17.5 years old, and Kid 2 is 17. Kid 1 has pictures on his phone stored on his phone, and he turns 18. He’s now an adult in possession of naked pictures of a minor….
I have a problem with the 18 year cut off. It is dangerous for an 18 year old to have a 17 year old girl friend. I would like to see the law have an age difference as part of any law that might make an `18 year old a sexual predator on a technicality.
I agree about a problem being pictures leaving the possession of a person. That’s where it stops though. I am looking more at the harassment angle than kiddie porn angle.
Its a bad law that needs some tweaking in my opinion.
What makes it “child porn” is not the age of the person producing or distributing. It is the age of the subject in the image. Think about your statement. Say one of the people is an adult, and one a “consenting minor”. Is the adult in possession of child-porn?
Right. I understand that. But we are talking about selfies. That’s where I have a problem.
Disclosure: I am not saying I think it is ok for kids to be doing this. I am saying it is a matter of good taste and propriety rather than being an illegality. (in my opinion)
Right now, if my 13 year old grandson takes a picture of himself, then he is in possession of child pornography. Now that is screwed up!!!!!
Respectfully, I think you all have lost your minds. Pictures of naked kids intended to arouse the viewer are child porn. Doesn’t matter if the image was taken as a “selfie”. Doesn’t matter if the intended recipient/viewer is another minor. It is the image (a picture of a naked minor) that is criminal. A 17 yearold who receives a photo of his or her 17, 16, 15, 14 yearold boyfriend or girlfriend, what is to stop them from showing that to say their 18, 19, 20 yearold friends? Did he or she just show someone child porn? Yes, because the subject of the image is a child. A minor. Not capable of entering into contractual agreements verbal or written, with regards to privacy, and is now vulnerable to exploitation.
If we looked at it from your point of view, Steve, then the cops should go arrest almost every kid with a cell phone that has a camera.
That obviously is more of a problem than the police can handle.
Parents need to do their own parenting. Most kids have a cell phone because of the parents. The parents need to step up to the plate and teach their kids appropriate use with that cell phone and if the kid isn’t acting appropriately, then take the damn cell phone away from them. Done deal.
To want government to solve all your discipline problems is sort of…gasp…(remembering I am talking to Steve..) Liberal. If my 8 year old granddaughter takes a picture of her chest…kiddie porn? I don’t think so.
This scenario is getting way out of hand.
http://www.pcsndreams.com/Pages/Sexting_Statistics.html
The percent of teenagers who have sent or posted nude or semi-nude pictures or video of themselves:
20% of teenagers overall
22% of teen girls
18% of teen boys
11% of young teen girls ages 13-16
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2014/01/06/20-percent-of-seventh-graders-have-sexted
“Five percent of the seventh graders admitted to sending sexual photos via cellphone.”
I am guessing that 95% of all teenagers have taken pictures that someone might consider kiddie porn of themselves. The missing 5% are those who for whatever reason, don’t have cell phones.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/02/sexting-teens-study-idINDEE8610HS20120702
After examining the association between sexting and sexual behavior, Temple and his team found that teenage girls, but not boys, who sexted were more likely to have a higher prevalence of risky behavior such as having multiple partners and using drugs and alcohol before sex.
And rather than leading to harsher penalties for sexting such as prosecutions for child pornography, Temple said he hopes the findings showing how common it is will lead to softer legal punishments so stretched resources can be used to fund educational programs for teens on reducing risk sexual behavior.
“The main takeaway message is that it (sexting) may be an indicator of actual sexual behavior. If a conversation about sexting can act as a springboard for about talking about sex and safe sex, then it is a good point of the study,” said Temple.
War on drugs, even though it’s leading to large-scale incarceration of non-violent offenders and of minorities, I support.
Statutory rape laws, lead to some hard luck stories, but I support them.
Child porn charges for two kids sexting? I’m not on board.
I don’t support all statutory rape laws. Example: 17 and 19 year olds having consensual sex. The parents file charges as a control issue. So the older person becomes a sexual predator for life? That is pure BS.
The dividing line, in my mind, is whether or not the older person really is a sexual predator or if the sex was consensual, without coercion. Now this would be for people close in age. Someone 35 and 17? nope. Statutory rape.
Rick,
I might be inclined to support not having a minor who sexts another have to be listed on the sex-offender registry, but that’s where I draw the line. I’ll say it again: If the subject of the image is a minor, the image is child porn. Doesn’t matter if the photographer was a minor, or some pervy old man. It doesn’t change the age of the subject.
Selfies shouldn’t count. Geez, the government can’t control everything.
Well, and I’m juts thinking out loud here, is a selfie of a kid’s penis really a defined enough image to consider child porn? Perhaps a good distinguishing trait of whether something is two kids playing on phones vs. something more nefarious is the quality and definition of the image.
And another question for you Steve – should this woman be prosecuted for creating and distributing child pornography? If not, why not?
CAUTION : If you choose to click on this link, published by FOX News, which presumably millions of other users have clicked on without giving it a second thought, you may arguably be viewing child pornography.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/07/north-carolina-mom-battles-facebook-over-child-photo-meant-to-depict-coppertone/
If the boy gets charged with a felony, so should the girl if she took pictures of herself.
What she did was much more reckless than what the 17-year old boy did. This woman, even after facebook told her that the photo was unacceptable because it is attractive to pedophiles, insists on publicizing it. Her daughter’s butt has been seen by millions.
(Personally, I do think the woman is an idiot). (And that she’s guilty of more bad judgement and material crime than this 17 year old boy).
@Rick Bentley
Look no further than the photographs artist Sally Mann has made of her children in varying stages of nudity to find the controversy over pornography. What rarely raised an eyebrow twenty or thirty years ago makes major publications, including cutting edge art magazines, flinch today.
Here’s a New York Times article that addresses the concerns about Mann’s work. She even asked the Federal prosecutor in Roanoke about the pictures planned for a traveling exhibit and was warned that eight of them might subject her to arrest. http://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/27/magazine/the-disturbing-photography-of-sally-mann.html
Ultimately, I think the laws are going to have to become more fine tuned to deal with sexting – and parents’ shared photos of their nude kids.
Every naked baby on a bear skin rug is now child porn?
Quite rightly Censored. We know there are pedophiles in the world and we have a clearer understanding of it than we did 20 or 30 years ago. Anyone who says a pic of kids naked is innocent and that anyone who objects to it on facebook is “dirty-minded” is just missing the whole concept of pedophilia.
Reading the article about Sally Mann, I’m not sympathetic to her.
I’ve always been uncomfortable with Mann’s photos of her children – wondering how they would feel about those photos as they grew older. Some of their poses could indeed appeal to pedophiles. The tones in her images are some of the best I’ve ever seen in b & w photography but many of her subjects are disturbing.
@Moon-howler
I would have said absolutely not until I was subjected to grand jury duty and had to listen to child porn cases being presented. Some of the sickest cases involved parents taking porn shots of their infants!! You just can’t underestimate mankind sometimes….
Ewwww….That’s horrible.
So how do we make laws that protect children and young adults but don’t do overkill. Unless I am missing something, I think what is being done to Trey Simms is child abuse. Maybe there is something the public isn’t being told but geez…..
I don’t think that shots of kids partially naked are “child porn”. HOWEVER, I feel that they do appeal to pedophiles and that people should have the sense not to publish them on the Internet.
I agree, Rick. Common sense has to prevail with parents.
Censored, that must have been horrific jury duty. Sorry to hear that.
Rick, what surprised me – when the prosecutor gave a recap of the cases he’d known – was that a lot of child pornography originates with parents.
Maybe the Manassas case will get police, prosecutors, the public, and politicians around the country talking about how laws may need to be tweaked in order to realistically deal with new technology – and teenagers. Also, it might encourage schools to discuss the dangers of a routine some teens find to be fairly innocent.
That should definitely be part of FLE classes. I expect some parents wouldn’t approve of having why you shouldn’t be sexting being taught. ARRGGHHH
According to our police farce it is.
I am still saddened by the death of Chester Nez, the last remaining code talker.