A frequent message among anti-immigrant activists is that the federal government is refusing to do its job in guarding the border, and therefore civilians should consider joining border patrol militias to stop the purported massive flood of immigrants, sometimes with tragic results. Calls to join such vigilante groups only increased with the rise of unaccompanied minors fleeing drug violence in Central America, even though the minors were actually seeking out border patrol officers.
This week, one of these armed groups ambushed a group of geologists who were “counting bats in a local cave” for a wildlife survey. One of the researchers told the Huffington Post, “We didn’t know what they were doing. We started hiding behind rocks. We’re not doing what they’re saying, and they’re acting kind of jumpy. … We had them yelling at us with spotlights, acting like they have some kind of authority.” Of course, that led actual Border Patrol officers to come to the scene of the (non)crime…taking time away from their, well, actual job that they are supposedly not doing –
So…. you have a story from a left wing site, Right-Wing Watch, that links to liberalHuffington Post, that uses the dishonest leftist propaganda site, Southern Poverty Law Center, as a source. Right-wing Watch is a subsidiary of the Left wing “People for the American Way.”
Now, if I was was actually concerned about the source, I’d ask for “better, more balanced” sources like you do.
I mean… my “right wing” mainstream sources are so much crazier than Right-Wing Watch.
That said…. the militia actions resulted in no harm. They acted stupidly. They are doing a job that the government seems to have dropped. The government is no longer stopping illegal immigrants from coming in. They are facilitating their entry.
The govt is following the law regarding unaccompanied minors from non contiguous nations. That rascally old “rule of law” again. Illegal immigrants are being stopped.
Do you actually know any illegal immigrants? You seem to want to pick on children.
People for the American Way is one of my favorite organizations. Of course, my very favorite is Americans United for Separation of Church and state.
Are you denying Rush made those statements? Do you think he is proud of them or would deny he said it?
How can we assume no harm done? How accurate do you think that bat count was after all that hullabaloo?
If they are on anyone’s property other than their own or as invited guests, I have a real problem with their presence being vigilantees.
Who invited them to interfer?
I have a real problem with unauthorized people hunting other people down like dogs.
The bat count is fine. They were on their way back.
The article stated no harm done. No one was hurt.
They were on public land.
Huntiing other people down like dogs…is hyperbole.
Finding people trying to sneak into your country illegally is accurate.
Those “children” include teen gang members. Just how did those “unaccompanied” children make a 1200 mile journey. Pretty resourceful 5 year olds. The ADULTS are coming up to agents and demanding they be let in as “refugees.”
Illegal immigrants are not being stopped.
Yea they are being stopped. More blanket, unsubstantiated statements. You failed to answer if you knew any illegal immigrants.
Those yahoos have no business hunting anyone down. It isn’t their job to find people legal or illegal. They have not been deputized by the federal government. How do they know who is legal and who isn’t? I don’t have any citizenship papers, do you?
If I lived in that area I would consider them armed and dangerous.
“Are you denying Rush made those statements? Do you think he is proud of them or would deny he said it?”
Rush…in this article?
Who invited them to interfere? The government, in their dishonest attempt to ignore the border.
No one invited the vigilantees to interfere. They have overstepped their boundaries.
I read the Rush article several places. Of course he made those statements. The context really doesn’t matter or make it more or less funny.
Chickify? Too funny. I laugh at him.
If a person crosses the border and approaches a border agent and asks for refugee status – are they illegally entering the US?
Look at this refugee request – for home schooling – and the right cannot get out of their own way in their quest to have this family granted refugee status. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/372521/german-home-school-refugees-can-stay-deroy-murdock So, a German family can get political refugee status for home schooling, but others cannot get refugee status for trying to get away from a cartel that is trying to kill them.
hmmmm lets see…what ARE the differences?
And here is the problem with these ‘militias’. They think they know what they are doing and they think they are doing the right thing, but they are really just getting in the way and preventing the proper authorities from doing their job. The professional with the training are better qualified at distinguishing legal behavior from illegal activities.
Totally agree, Pat. The militias are hot-dogging. Not a good thing.
The vigilantes are xenophobic idiots with guns. Have you actually listened to these posers? If they ever actually helped catch any bad guys it would be purely accidental.
Cargo’s statements regarding significant numbers of teen gang members, illegal immigrants not being stopped, etc., have all been debunked by impartial sources. The Guard members sent down by Rick Perry are standing around with nothing to do.
Like Benghazi, Fast and Furious, no birth certificate, trading terrorists for a hostage (remember that?) and on and on, the border scare is more conservative B.S. Obamacare is working and the economy’s getting better, so they have to try to find something.
Yea, pretty much hysteria, flamed on by I hate Obama internet trash.
Benghazi and Fast and Furious are more “conservative bs.” LOL.
I give you “Raymond Maxwell and the Mystery of the Sunday Night Caper in the Foggy Bottom Basement.”
Rightwingwatch.org?!!!!!!!!! And she always gripes about Fox?!!!!!!! Rightwingwatch.org?!!!!!
Bandits! Chauffards! Saltimbanques! Ecraseurs! Brutes! Nyctalopes! Parasites!
@Pat.Herve
One difference is that they already had political asylum status….thus here LEGALLY.
And I actually agree with you about the militias.
@middleman
Fast and Furious as right wing BS. Really. So much BS that the PRESIDENT declared executive privilege.
Benghazi? The State Dept has already admitted to “cleaning up” the files handed over,
Trading terrorists for hostages. Yes….that one. Except that the “hostage” was a deserter and even the Pentagon stated that the trade was illegal.
But you keep believing that the economy is getting better in the face of increasing numbers of unemployed and higher real inflation and ObamaCare is working in the face of higher costs to the customers, lack of non-Medicaid enrollment, and the inability to keep your health care and doctors.
Cargo, you must be Issa’s PR person. You’ll never stop believin,’ even when you’re proven wrong. Wrong about the percent of folks on welfare, wrong on Common Core, wrong on the economy and inflation, just mostly demonstrably wrong in general. But you just keep on believin.’ Maybe if you keep repeating it enough, it’ll all come true.
“Maybe if you keep repeating it enough, it’ll all come true.”
That’s been tried. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. 38% national approval rating says it failed.
Well, maybe one legal immigrant family versus millions of illegal immigrants? Ya think?
So you think the desire to home school is more compelling then the desire to feed you children or in some cases stronger than to save your children’s lives?
If that is the case then I am going to have to say I think the right wing value system is pretty screwed up.
Those legal German immigrants represented a special case applying to home schooling, which is banned in Germany and can result in severe punishment. As a family where a number of the grandkids have been and are homeschooled — successfully — we would support legal residents of any ethnicity against deportation to a country where they would be punished for this. Why do you always try to throw apples and oranges into the same barrel and then accuse others of wrong values? We would have supported legal Honduran immigrants or legal Sudanese immigrants or legal Chinese immigrants or any other legal immigrants on this issue. It has nothing to do with the UAC cases, which are completely different matters and circumstances.
Tough if you don’t like that.
I guess tough that you don’t like illegal immigrants in this country them. What are you going to do about it?
However, the question was about what do you consider more important…home schooling or keeping your kids from starving or being killed. You are willing to sign on the dotted line to let anyone in to be home schooled. Other reasons dealing with life–not so much. That is the misplaced values that I see.
Cargo — here you go. From CNBC on the US Economy (9-16-2014). Hopefully this will be an “acceptable” reporting source for this blog. The report concerns a survey of the members of the Business Roundtable (BRT), an organization of CEO’s of American companies which have total annual revenues of $7 trillion and total work forces of 16 million employees.
The BRT survey indicates that the Third Quarter outlook is “cloudy.” Corporate executives are scaling back plans for sales, capital spending, and job creation this quarter. They see plans for capital investment, hiring, and revenues falling from the Second Quarter level, with hiring plans declining the most. They expect a Third Quarter GDP of 2.4%, barely above last quarter’s 2.3%.
Well, Cargo, after the last bad jobs report, this survey cannot make the government economic policy wonks very happy.
I notice that you still didn’t refute anything. You haven’t provided any evidence that I’m wrong.
I provided a comment about government benefits from the census. Take it up with them. YOUR interpretation is different…..
Wrong on Common Core? Please…..tell me how good it is when the evidence is piling up that its crap.
You really do believe that the economy recovered in the summer of 2009, don’t you? In the face of continuing unemployment, rising numbers of unemployed, sluggish if not recessive economic growth, actual inflation running about 10% when you include food and energy prices, an you are downright, ostrich head in the sand about the scandals….OR you actually don’t care because its the liberals in trouble.
I mean…the IRS colluding with Cummings to get around the investigation along with all the lies and stonewalling, the president providing cover for the ATF, the actual lies from the president, the illegal modification of laws, the illegal appointments, etc…… all that’s good in your eyes.
We know that. I’m not trying to convince you. I’m merely pointing out what you value. And you value Democrat power over honesty.
Cargo — Correction. “They expect a Third Quarter GDP of 2.4%, barely above their previous survey forecast of 2.3%”
@Moon-howler
Quite frankly, I would like POTUS and Congress to give us a border control system which is effective and which befits a super power. Then we may be able to avoid the constant repeats of our illegal immigrant problems and the security risks which poorly guarded borders represent. Put in a good guest worker program, streamline the immigration application system and the pre-arrival background check, and bring the approvals through our official border posts with medical qualification checks. Shut down the leaks in that damned border and quit rewarding the illegal ones. All this has made successive American governments look like a pack of incompetent fools.
Now, if you insist on making aspersions about my personal values, I will return the favor. I find it rather odd and sad that someone can continually cry copious tears over the kids in foreign countries and urge that we gather them all in like a mother hen and still go around calling for the freedom to kill our own offspring in the womb even if just because they are inconvenient.
I find it even stranger that you go around blubbering over abortion even in the very early nonsentient stages of fertilization and seem to be more than willing to allow born sentient children to be subjected to starvation, crime, sexual abuse and all sorts of other horrible conditions. I just don’t get the cognitive dissonance.
If you think I want to go around the world gathering up all the children, I suggest you reread what I have written. I want us to obey the law and bring in the kids who are from non-contiguous countries and take care of them in a safe environment until it can be determined how to handle the situation. Frankly, I don’t think I have ever spoken on the subject of outcome. I am unsure of the final disposition of this refugee crisis. I do see the situation with unaccompanied minors as a humanitarian crisis and I don’t think we can ignore it. The law is clear. If we are going to go all Rule of Law on one thing, might as well use the law as a good goal post for this situation.
I am not really sure how you slow down the leaks. Got any ideas short of shooting people who swim across the Rio Grande like was done to those escaping East Berlin and East Germany?
Oh, boo hoo. And then there is all that “blubbering” from your side about a totally fake “War on Women.” Spare me the tears.
You obviously went through much of your life blind to the limitations that were placed on women. Typical. Your working knowledge of history has a few omissions. Let’s face it, if women were not encroaching on male turf, perhaps fewer men would be unemployed.
You are a fine one to talk about ad hominem attacks. You and Cargo have been having yourselves quite a field day on here.
Cargo — here’s another for you. US Bureau of the Census: “Income and Poverty in the United States 2013 (distributed September 2014): Real median income of households maintained by a non-citizen increased by 6.0% from 2012 to 2013. Real median income of households maintained by native-born citizens or naturalized foreign-born citizens were not statistically different from 2012 to 2013 (actually 0.4%).
Nice, eh?
How many of those households had all people in them working? I don’t know how things are in Loudoun but around these parts the people I think are undocumented usually work more than one job and often have several families under one roof,. That accounts for the increase.
What is your point, by the way? War on immigrants? That’s pretty obvious.
@Moon-howler
Is everything a “war” with you, pardner?
Ahem, “illegal immigrants” not “immigrants.” You cats are always trying to slip that lie into the debate — unless, maybe, you really don’t know the difference. Yeah, I would like to have a country where all immigrants have come here legally and can assimilate in peace and happiness instead of the current stupid mess the spineless politicians have given us…and will continue to give us if that border is not secured for real. Normalcy. Is that too much to ask?
Ask the Bureau of the Census about the households. It’s their report. It is long, comprehensive, and very detailed. You can be assured that they are not a “right wing source” since, back in 2009, Obama announced that the Bureau would be brought under closer control by the White House.
Not with me. It sounds like it is with you. Do you not think that most immigrants would come here legally if they could?
When did the last person immigrant here legally from …pick a latino country….El Salvador? Guatemala?
Immigrants are immigrants. The status of the immigrant doesn’t change the fact that they are immigrants. You may chose to stick “illegal” or “undocumented” in front of the word if you chose.
Well, that was certainly a strange response. I am blind to the history of women in America? By gorrah, is this a seance in contact with the ghost of Emma Goldberg?
I hardly think that vigorously disagreeing on a blog with someone’s viewpoint can be considered an ad hominem attack — but, then, you never know with the lib mentality. Can’t speak for Cargo, but I can assure you that I am not in the habit of calling others “dumb ass.” Not Obama. Not Hillary. Not Holder. Not Lois Lerner. Not Susan Rice. Well, Biden, maybe – I can’t remember.
I don’t recall you calling anyone a dumb ass but that doesn’t mean you haven’t been insulting and derogatory to other people and to other bloggers. No high road for Wolve.
Yes, if you deny that the playing field for women has been equal to that of men throughout history including the present, you are living in lala land and really don’t know of care much about history. It wasn’t happening to you so I guess it didn’t matter.
Some people always want to have someone who they see as just a little bit inferior. Not saying you are like that. I expect you are not, as a matter of fact. That’s the reason I find it so strange that you don’t see some of the stupid things done to women as being aggressive putdowns. (voting against equal pay, attacking access to contraception, yucking it up over aspirin between the knees )
I firmly believe also that some men are threatened by the fact that women can do the same they do and therefore threaten their job security. Competition. Some men aren’t sure how to handle it with the “gentler gender.” Others are just old moss backs and weren’t taught any better by their mothers, I guess.
It really doesn’t matter if you or Cargo don’t feel there is a war on women. Really, women do feel there is a “war” on them. I think they get to decide. When you continually have to fight for what you feel are rights, then something is not right.
@Moon-howler
“You and Cargo have been having yourselves quite a field day on here.”
Disagreeing with you and not accepting your premise is a field day?
Voting against equal pay? You might want to take that up with various Democrats. There’s a certain President that pays the women that work for him much less than he pays the men.
It seems that the “gentler gender” seem to need help competing.
Gentler gender seem to need help? You just basically confirmed everything I was saying.
The Obama pay thing is a crock. Let’s talk about the real world since most of us don’t work in the White House. Political digging really doesn’t put food on the table in most of America.
Equal pay for equal work….there isn’t a two tiered pay scale at the White House. This is so typical…you are diminishing what is a real problem for millions of women in America by throwing out some political red meat strawman argument.
Its not what you say, just for the record, it’s how.
@Moon-howler
You are the one that says that the legal system needs to support only them.
The colleges are saying that the women need to be given a pass and are not held to the same standards.
It is you that brought up the “gentler gender.”
“Some men aren’t sure how to handle it with the “gentler gender.” Others are just old moss backs and weren’t taught any better by their mothers, I guess.”
I’m sorry, I guess those women need help competing?
Equal pay for equal work…except when the Democrats refuse to do it. Its always the GOP’s fault. Nothing stopped the Democrats when they held full control of all three branches. There is a two tier scale at many Democrat offices. They are hypocrites.
IF there wasn’t equal pay….businesses would be fools to hire men.
Its HOW I say it? Sorry. Blunt speech is needed. It seems that whenever a statement isn’t blunt…its just ignored or brushed aside. When it is blunt, the complaint is that its rude.
One step at a time. What colleges say that women need a pass and aren’t holding women to the same standard? Where is this? I sure don’t remember ever finding such a college.
Competent, socially skilled men compete successfully. They don’t whine like victims if women succeed.
Yes, it seems that on this blog of late just disagreeing has become confused with “dissing.” Libs can’t seem to handle that. Neither can RINO’s. And many cons have fallen into the same trap. Something about being unable to handle partisan banter and debate without responding with putdowns and ad hominems.
As for comparative knowledge of the history of women in America, I see that you completely missed my memory lapse last night. “Emma Goldman” not “Goldberg.” Hard to understand why you didn’t catch me for a gig there. New York anarchist, free love advocate, lecturer around the country in favor of birth control, even jailed for speaking out on birth control, big supporter of Sangers, some time lover of Ben Reitman, the famous “clap doctor” who served hobos and prostitutes in Chicago, eventually had her naturalized citizenship withdrawn and was deported. I thought you would have gotten me on that for sure.
I know what you mean about men who don’t like women as rivals for advancement. I should know. I had somewhat of a work and promotion panel reputation for pushing hard in favor of female staff and in favor of officers of color. Worked too. A number of them deservedly rose to a higher rank than I did. No regrets. I saw it as a service plus. But, then, I am only a lowly conservative who is warring against women. And there you have it.
An immigrant who came here legally from a “latino country”? Easy one. My son-in-law (and his entire family). Central America too.
I guess I am just not enough of a fan to notice whether it was Goldberg or Goldman. I know very little about the woman. Her contributions just don’t particularly interest me.
I haven’t heard that expression, “free love” since I was in college.
Oh, and I forgot one thing. I believe that it may have been Goldman and her anarchist buddies in NYC who were the first to expose Margaret Sanger to contraceptives and to the idea of fighting for societal approval of birth control —- probably during conversations about the emancipation of women over tea at Emma’s NYC apartment around 1911-1912. Bruns once wrote about Margaret that “The issue knifed her conscience as no other had before.” It was only a couple of years later that Margaret founded her signature journal “The Woman Rebel.” In later years, Emma and the Sangers, Margaret and William, sort of fought a bit about who was the first to carry the torch and who was carrying most of the weight, so to speak. Emma always maintained that she has been into the pro-birth control fight long before Margaret.
The story of “Red Emma.” Fascinating history.
Nice try, Cargo, but you can’t hide- the evidence is still there on the other threads.
The incorrect figure for those on welfare came from a conservative site misusing census figures, and I showed why (twice!) they were wrong, with linked data to back it up.
You claimed that Common Core was formed (or coordinated) by the feds, and it wasn’t. I pointed out who initiated and originally carried out the initiative, with links to where my info came from.
You have repeatedly claimed that we’re still in recession and that unemployment is rising, which is easily proved false, as I have done.
You want to try to confuse the issues now with talk of sluggish growth and how effective Common Core is, but the claims you made previously are right there for everyone to see on the previous threads. And you are wrong on these foundational issues.
“You have repeatedly claimed that we’re still in recession and that unemployment is rising, which is easily proved false, as I have done.”
I stated that our economy is still bad. Unemployment is rising. If the job creation does not meet the monthly targets for job seekers…it grows. The only reason the “official” rate is dropping is because people have stopped looking for work. The first quarter of this year was negative growth. If you factor in the actual rate of inflation, please tell me how we are not in a recession. Or are you actually going to say that we don’t have any inflation? Please point out where you have proven that the employment is actually rising. Where the job creation is greater than the number of people seeking new jobs.
Why did I think that the Feds were in charge of Common Core? Because the Feds were using federal money to pay for implementation. Obama administration had $4.35 billion of Race to the Top federal funds, and states had to adopt “college-and-career ready standards” if they wanted to be eligible to compete for those funds. Some states, like Massachusetts, dropped their own well-tested and successful standards and replaced them with the Common Core, in order to win millions in new federal funds. In other words, the Feds were mucking it up again. And if the Feds are going to the states waving money…they are coordinating the adoption of it.
The census figures were correct. YOU were the one misusing the household data. This statement is not false: “109,631,000 Americans lived in households that received benefits from one or more federally funded “means-tested programs” — also known as welfare — as of the fourth quarter of 2012, according to data released Tuesday by the Census Bureau.” Those people all lived in the household. Thus, even indirectly, are benefiting.
Where that article fails is in this logic: In 2012, according to the Census Bureau, there were 103,087,000 full-time year-round workers in the United States (including 16,606,000 full-time year-round government workers). Thus, the welfare-takers outnumbered full-time year-round workers by 6,544,000.
because those numbers overlap. The workers can be living in the same household.
And you still have your head in the sand about the scandals and the cover ups.
Cargo:
1. It’s obvious that you don’t understand the concept of recession in relation to the economy.
2. The states asked for federal money AFTER they developed Common Core. That’s not the same as the feds developing it. It makes a difference because it’s now being presented as a “states rights” issue when it CAME from the states!
3. I don’t know how else to say this: in regards to benefits “living in the household” isn’t the same as “recieving,” and it skews the numbers, almost doubling them. Again, if you counted everyone living in a household where someone gets Social Security, you would likely get about half the population of the U.S., but what would that prove? You could also claim that the others in the house got some “benefit” from Social Security. So what?
I don’t think I have my head in the sand regarding the “scandals” as much as you live in a partisan fantasy world with your own definitions of terms such as recession and recepients and false claims become true if repeated enough.