A debate over whether to pan Charlottesville’s annual observance of a holiday honoring Confederate Gens. Robert E. Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson plunged the Charlottesville City Council Chambers into chaos at times Monday.
On Feb. 17, the council is scheduled to decide whether Charlottesville will continue to mark the Friday before Martin Luther King Jr. Day — the third Monday of January — as a local government holiday.
“There is a sentiment in our community that the holiday is outdated and offensive to many, and should be retired here in the City,” City Manager Maurice Jones wrote in a Jan. 28 email to city employees.
Charlottesville does not give employees a paid day off on Veterans Day, he noted, at the meeting.
The debate Monday drew speakers from Petersburg and Richmond and letter writers from Oregon, Maryland and Ohio, some of whom signed their notes “In Honor of Old Virginia” or “Respectfully … a daughter of the South.”
Councilors admonished the crowd to remain civil before opening the floor up for debate during the first of two public hearings, but had to call for calm or quiet from the crowd several times as speakers were “booed” and told to sit down.
One woman was removed from chambers as a divided community in turn lauded and lambasted the late-January rite.
“This is a problem of overreach from people who think they can change history,” said city resident John Heyden. He was heckled at a Dec. 15 City Council during his comments and filed a complaint to the Office of Human Rights after being removed from the dais during that meeting.
Division on Monday swung between whether the holiday served as a tribute to towering historical figures or a caustic reminder of slavery and oppression.
“If a large group of individuals feel offended, we need to listen to them,” said Wes Bellamy, an Albemarle County high school teacher and candidate for the City Council.
Don’t laugh at Charlottesville. We might very well be next for this type of issue. I mean we do have a battlefield. Charlottesville has gone round and round with the issue of statues and Lee Jackson Day. The statues are still standing in Lee Park, to the best of my knowledge.
At what point is someone with a politically correct heart going to come along and try to tear down the Stonewall Jackson statue in the Manassas Battlefield because he fought for the South? At what point is someone going to suggest that all mention of Thomas Jefferson be eradicated from the University of Virginia or that there be no mention of anything Jefferson in Charlottesville? How about tearing down the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial because the monuments honor men who were slave owners?
We cannot simply erase our history. Nor can we allow cultural extinction to take place on the South and its people. Slavery was a part of our history until 1865 in many places in this country. It happened. It cannot be changed. We cannot pretend it didn’t happen. It did. Lee and Jackson were soldiers. They were war heroes. They are part of our history.
I am going to have to find my old picture of Robert E. Lee and put him back in the living room if this nonsense keeps up. Why? Because I can and I believe if that war was important enough for my ancestors to fight in, then I owe it to them to at least remember. It pains me to even say that because I hate the Civil War. I think it was horrible, barbaric, evil and ridiculous on the part of a nation. I also think owning other human beings is horrible, barbaric, evil and ridiculous. I can’t forget about either. We cannot change history.
It’s not going to impact my life at all if Lee/Jackson Day isn’t observed in Charlottesville. However, I don’t think it’s wise to allow political correctness to dictate and eradicate the cultural values of a region. Perhaps the value of Lee/Jackson Day now is that we do discuss its relevance. These are men who are revered all over the world, not just in Virginia or the United States. People come from all over the world to see the statue of Stonewall Jackson, standing like a stone wall, right here in Manassas, just 2 miles from my house. Why is that?
The discussion that evolves from that question actually makes the day worth saving. We can all learn from it.
@Wolve
In the South this rift has never gone totally away. In other areas hardly anyone thinks about it.
It never will go away and I think the further south you get (well until you get to florida) and the more rural you get, the more the issues will linger.
Let me pose a modern analogy. Our country holds prisoners in Guantanomo without charges and reserves the right to kill citizens with drones without due process. Our military is all-volunteer–do you suppose that everyone in the military agrees with these policies? If someone makes an extraordinary sacrifice on the battlefield in our current wars, should future generations refuse to honor him if these policies are later viewed as unjust?
Almost all the federal and confederate generals were from the North and South, respectively. Their duty to defend their homes, their families, and their states probably outweighed any misgivings about slavery. It would be unreasonable to ask a great leader to watch as his homeland, his community, and his friends were being devastated by a plundering, destructive invader. Lee did all that he could do to avoid civilian casualties, prevent atrocities, and to end the war quickly. That seems pretty heroic to me, especially when you understand just how barbaric the Civil War was.
Oh God was it barbaric and brutal. How many of us would refuse to defend our homeland, even if we didn’t agree with issues?
Thumbs up, Kelly.
I would say that very high in Robert E. Lee’s legacy should be the moment when he told his defeated but still loyal troops that the war was over and that they should go home to their families instead of carrying on further with guerrilla combat. No telling how many lives were saved and how much grief was prevented by those wise words from Lee.
Moon, I will pass the big 60 mark in a few months, so I’m guessing there isn’t a whole lot of difference in our ages, but I think you’re right about the disconnect we’re dealing with being generational. There are still lots of people who sentimentalize about the Confederacy and how brave their boys were and how they were fighting for their families and what they believed was their way of life and against the northern invaders. As in all wars, there was a lot of propaganda on both sides portraying the enemy as evil and less than human, and no doubt many young men on both sides believed it. The vast majority of men fighting for the south had no slaves and probably had only a vague idea that slavery had anything to do with why they needed to kill their fellow countrymen and even brothers.
But men like Lee and Jackson knew. These were men who had commanded some of the very men who they would now be tasked to destroy. They made a conscious decision to forsake their commission with the U.S. military and fight against their country. For the purpose of prolonging human slavery, an institution that clearly was on its way out and had already been outlawed in many countries by that time. They knew why they were fighting and they made a clear headed decision to be leaders in the attempt to break apart their country.
Again, we can’t judge by today’s standards, but Lee and Jackson obviously shouldn’t be honored with a holiday anymore, particularly considering the history of the MLK holiday’s inception. The original intent of merging MLK with Lee-Jackson was because in 1983 the Va. legislature was dragged kicking and screaming into recognizing a MLK holiday and they did that merger with Lee-Jackson as a poke in the eye to MLK and his memory. I followed that process at the time and it was obvious. The legislature separated the holidays under great pressure in 2000 but the fact that they remain bookends on the same weekend continues the shame of the original act.
Virginia stands out as one of the states that has resisted civil rights and equality for African Americans more forcefully than most. We need to put all this behind us for many reasons, but we never will if we continue sending these signals that we’re clinging to our racist past.
I have to disagree that Virginia is more racist than other southern states. Can you give me some examples that would push Virginia ahead of say Mississippi or Louisiana or Georgia?
@middleman
You should consider reading this account of Lee’s decision to resign from the U.S. Army:
http://www.americanheritage.com/content/robert-e-lee’s-“severest-struggle”?page=show
I think the mistake that both BS and Middleman are making is that they are evaluating 1860’s behavior through modern eyes. Then there is that quantum leap that those who support Lee Jackson Day in any way are doing hero worship. No, not really.
Just not buying into the knee jerk reaction of “eek eek politically incorrect.”
I go back to the challenge–when do we start tearing down statues? BS, Middleman, would you tear down all the statues of these men?
Do you understand that the South was a conquered nation and was treated as such? It will take at least another generation for these things to seem unimportant.
Meanwhile, if someone is upset and offended by simple acknowledgement of 2 military men, then perhaps its time to simply get over it. this acknowledgement isn’t costing anyone any money.
@ Middleman… +12
Lee and Stonewall did not fight against their country.
They fought against the federal government which invaded the Confederacy after committing an act of war by blocking a port. Ft. Sumter closed that port.
The South Carolinians made the mistake of taking the bait.
The states make up the country. No one, at that time, named themselves as Americans, but as a citizen of their states…as in, I’m a Virgininan, from the United States. And when they spoke of the nation, they spoke of THESE United States, not THE United States.
Yes…slavery was legal in the South. It was also legal out west…by CONGRESSIONAL approval. Congress refused to make it illegal. The US flag flew over a slave nation for much longer than the Confederate flag did.
Secession is not unconstitutional or illegal. Northern states threatened it in the 1840s.
The North acknowledged that slavery of human beings was immoral. The North eschewed slavery. The South fired upon and killed men who were in the military of United States in an effort to continue an immoral institution. There is no excuse or forgiveness for those that take up arms against the United States or her allies, yesterday or today.
The myths that evolved regarding those that engaged in combat in the Civil War needs to be exposed for what it is. Hero worship to excuse an immoral act of war and an immoral act of commerce.
African Americans are Virginians also and to worship and celebrate those that killed United Staes citizens to continue slavery is unconscionable.
A special plea for forgiveness for spelling and subject/verb agreement.
Moon, I think I’ve made it pretty clear that I’m talking about Lee/Jackson in relation to racism and the MLK holiday, which is what the Charlottesville article was about. Not sure where talk of tearing down statues came from, but it appears to be a straw man argument.
I said Virginia has been one of the more racist states, evidenced by school integration resistance and anti-miscegenation laws, among other things. I didn’t say that it was more racist than other southern states.
I believe tearing down statues was referenced in the Daily Progress article. The last time I read about Charlottesville on this issue some folks wanted to get rid of the statues of Lee and others in Lee Park. Someone also wanted to get rid of the Lewis and Clark statue because Sacagawea
looked subservient.
All the states had miscegenation laws, at least in the south. All states resisted integration, in the south. I just don’t think Virginia has been one of the most racist states. Now I don’t think it has a clean track record but neither does Massachusetts.
I don’t recall reading about mass lynchings and things like that in Virginia, unlike some of the states in the deeper south.
I have pretty much determined that racism exists everywhere. Of course, that begs the question, what is racism?
To my mind, it all depends on what kind of state we want Virginia to be. Do we want to be seen as a state that clings to its “Capital Of The Confederacy” past with all that that implies, or do we want to make it clear that we have left that sordid past behind. Do we want to be a forward-looking state that will draw the kinds of employers and investments that will boost our economy and lower taxes, or be the state that has a state government holiday honoring Civil War generals alongside Martin Luther King? The message that sends is crystal clear.
The “Lost Cause” is just that- lost- and thank God. No need for any “cleansing” to wipe out all reference to those leaders who fought for the evil of slavery, just no need to continue to glorify them.
Obviously most people don’t want to keep the old Virginia State Song. Its horribly offensive. Should it be cleansed or put in the archives?
I think Virginia is doing quite well as a forward looking state. It is certainly one of the wealthiest states and has been chosen time again as a good place to do business. Not all of those reasons have to do with vestiges of the old South, however. Many people find the old South charming. Richmond, Savannah, Charlton are all favorite tourist spots.
If you start whittling away at the cultural ideas and icons of a region then they are sure to be gone.
It’s all a matter of degree. You can honor culture and preserve charm while emphasizing separation from hate and evil. You acknowledge problems and mistakes in the past and promote your region’s positive aspects. You jettison an anachronism like any connection to a common holiday honoring Lee/Jackson-MLK to make clear that the racism behind the origination of the common holiday is in the past.
And let the charn flow…
You do understand that the MLK Federal holiday and the Lee Jackson Day were not on the same day in Charlottesville? MLK is on Monday, Lee Jackson is on a Friday. There is no real holiday associated with Lee Jackson Day any more. It is just an acknowledgement. The historians probably do something…I know not what. The Albemarle Charlottesville Historical Society would probably know. http://www.albemarlehistory.org/
I don’t think you need to emphasize anything. What are you suggesting, public self-flagellation or wearing a horsehair shirt over slavery? That serves no purpose.
I am just not one for exterminating culture nor sanitizing history. I think how one makes amends for the past is by treating all people with dignity.
On April 13, 1865, a young Union Signal Corps 2nd Lt.
named George C Round, under the command of Gen.
Sherman, climbed the outside of the NC State Capitol
In Raleigh to signal the last Confederate troops had
surrendered. Which Round did, but not before falling
through a skylight and almost ending 100 ft. below on a
marble floor. The message ended “Peace on earth,
goodwill to all.”.
After the war, Round settled in Manassas, which he had earlier
fought near, and became a major civic leader. He played key
parts in founding a public school system, and the moving of
Prince William Courthouse to Manassas. George C Round Elem.
Is named for him.
It is said his last request was ” Please stop calling me a
Damn Yankee.”.
Did he object to damn or yankee?
Thanks Steve.
Moon, I think I see the problem! Lee-Jackson day IS a holiday. The Commonwealth of Virginia recognizes the day as a holiday to honor Lee and Jackson. State workers get the day off. I think PWC does too, but I’m not sure about that.
So now I hope you see the problem. The holiday was conceived in racism as an offset to allowing a MLK day, and now has been slightly modified to be a bookend holiday, but the taint remains. It belongs in the past with segregation, slavery and the rest.
I don’t think state workers still get that holiday off. I think its just more of a recognition. A day off with pay makes your argument more plausible. I wouldn’t argue for that. I don’t think city workers got off in Charlottesville.
In fact, I don’t think it is any longer a state holiday. The reason I say that is people would argue in favor of Hitler day or Circus clown day to get a day off with pay. That to be would be tantamount to a life support system.
Moon, it’s still a state holiday and they still get the day off. I know people who work for the state and they get the holiday off on the Friday before MLK day every year.
That is one sweet weekend. I think it is optional depending on location. The liquor stores were open and so were banks.
I don’t think it needs to be a paid holiday. An observance is a little different.
So if it is a state holiday, why is there a fight going on over this in Charlottesville? Did Charlottesville secede from the state? I am thinking Venn diagrams here. If its a state holiday, shouldn’t the quarrel be down in Richmond?
Do liquor store employees get time and a half for working that day? This brings up more questions than it solves.
Here’s a link to the Virginia state holiday calendar: http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/docs/default-source/default-document-library/payandholidaycalendar2015.pdf?sfvrsn=2
Some of the local governments do not have the same holidays as the state.
Liquor store employees are similar first responders-they are essential!!
Thanks for the laugh. I think you and I have at last hit on common ground on this issue.
BTW, Middleman and I usually agree on many things. Lee Jackson, not so much.
We have at last found common ground. Yea us!
A couple of weeks ago, a town in the ‘burbs of Guadalajara dedicated an outdoor gymnasium [with swingsets and seesaws, it’s a playground dude – who’s kidding who?] to pretty Fabiola Ibarra, a local girl who was selected to compete on the Mexican National U-20 soccer team last year. A lot of countries that used to be (and truth be told many still are) sexist are now investing in their girls. The gym [sic] dedicated to Fabiola sends a message that local girls can succeed in sports and other endeavors and that their success will be honored by the community.
Throughout the world, cities, days, war vessels, airports and schools are named after people. It sends a message about that which is honored by the community. Freddy Kreuger Day in Los Angeles. Cocoa Beach FL erected a bronze statue honoring local hero the great Kelly Slater. Cristiano Ronaldo recently erected a statue of himself in his hometown.