This budget work session is extremely informative about the various county initiatives. It is important enough that it deserves its own thread.
Why are these programs essential? Which programs have perhaps outlived their usefulness?
First, the BOCS should be commended for sitting in the board room to do this exercise, even though there were more comfortable places to hold this session. The board room is the only place to have the meeting televised.
I am very disappointed that Supervisors Candland and Lawson aren’t voting on line items. They disapproved of the process so they are currently abstaining from voting. They didn’t get their own way.
The budget work session is preliminary screening. It isn’t a forever vote. I feel not voting is obstructionism. Let’s all see how EVERYONE votes.
Hopefully we will keep getting reports from inside the meeting. The board room is not packed to the gills. (from what I can tell.) Good crowd but I see several open seats.
Mrs. Caddigan spoke passionately about retaining employee compensation. Stewart and Nohe spoke in favor of the employees.
Corey talked about how difficult it is to catch up and that money wise, it is smart to keep current with raises.
Chief McGee and Hudson were called to the podium by Mrs. Lawson to speak of the impact of no raises on fire and rescue and the police.
Both McGee and Hudson spoke of the negative impact on their staff and departments.
Watching. It’s interesting seeing people with years of experience with the budget, and one person who really doesn’t understand what’s going on.
Nohe is usually the one who comes up with the final compromise. He understands the numbers better than anyone on the board, and was right about salaries being the only thing that could really get to the 1.3% guidance considering everything taken off the table.
Candland looks like a deer in the headlights. His opinion really doesn’t matter if he can’t at least convince more than one other Supervisor to vote with him I notice even Lawson abandoned him a couple of times.
He must feel very lonely right now. All of the discussion in the world won’t get him the votes he needs to get his way.
Marty does understand the numbers. I am going to suggest that Jenkins still knows budget better than anyone up there. People who feel he is just an over-the-hill dude who is just putting in time should beware. Jenkins is still sharp.
Lawson really needs to sit back get to know the board, and start building alliances. She doesn’t have to compromise her principles in the least.
Thanks for your report, ElGuapo.
Pete really needs to stop cutting people off mid sentence. He just cut Corey off. Is this a hearing issue? This is the South. Cutting people off, especially women, is considered very rude. He does it to Ms. Peacor continually.
Please pass a note to Corey and tell him the animal he is looking for is “horse.”
For someone whose opinion doesn’t matter, he sure talked a lot. I smile every time he starts talking which is always….about how the SoN made fun of Marty and talking. Holy cow. Has he heard the fair haired child? I hope all that wasn’t just to take up time. They folded up the tent early because of the weather.
In my experience in working for local area governments for over 38 years, I have come to the conclusion that all new board members and all new city councilmen come to their new responsibilities by knowing very little about how a municipality functions (which should be expected). They all come on strong and then start to learn that governing is not as simple as they once were led to believe.
Running a local government is like running a corporation. Electing and then expecting a housewife or a defense contractor or an appliance salesman to be able to make the correct call every time is expecting too much. No one expects a blue collar worker from an assembly line to step into the board of directors of General Motors and be able to contribute to the actual well being of the corporation.
Expecting new board members(who ever they are and whatever party they represent) to really take realistic positions is pie-in-the-sky.
My recommendation to any new local political leader is to watch, listen, study, and learn from one’s elders and experienced staff before putting one’s foot into one’s mouth and clogging the decision process.
Some do believe running a government is akin to managing a business I don’t. I thinks that’s the problem with some Board members. Businesses are not this diversified, manage multiple funding streams and meet as many mandates again very diversified. Government has to be prepared and proactive – always hard to justify. Governmants have to have huges reserves to respond immediately to catastrophic situations. Governments can’t shift funds quickly or easily, and have to get citizen input on many many decisions. Bonds, referendums and above all keeping their politician bosses happy.
This board seems to think they are better equipped than employees to handle the day to day operations. If they don’t have confidence in staff, fire them. That’s their option. Their responsibility is to guide and oversee – you don’t need a masters in Public Admin or a MBA to govern. I absolutely agree that watching and learning is important but at any level of government there are no job skill requirements.
One board member wants to be both CXO and Budget Director. I suggest he apply.
I did not see it and the video is not available. Just so I understand, they were going through the budget item by item – and voting. That is the best (although time consuming) way to go through – cut the fat, instead of voting for groups of items in a basket. Is that the process that Candland did not like? Because he could be held accountable for specific items included/excluded from the budget?
I watched the whole show on-line. Candland was very about disliking this process. It forced him to address the budget line by line very publicly instead of by applying some magic number.
The effects of his guidance were thrown in his face. No pay raises for employees, cops, firefighters? He couldn’t back away from that one fast enough.
Two abstained on every straw vote. They did not like the process and would not go along with the majority decision. Mr. Principi didn’t agree with the process either but he manged to get over it and even made a joke; he went along with the others. He didn’t pout. So the two can remain radical, criticize the others, blame the others publicly, grandstand by asking for more and more needless detail and let the others do the heavy lifting and make the tough decisions. Soooooo disappointed with the newest member.
I thought I saw Lawson vote yes on the boys and girls club. Perhaps I am wrong. I thought that is what I saw.
Frank wanted the public to be able to speak, didn’t he? I sort of missed that kerfluffle from the onset and picked up on it mid-barb. It wasn’t the time for the public to be chiming in. They can chime in later. Nothing is set in stone. If you have chiming in, you never finish.
Now things have been temporarily restored, the public can speak to these issues.
It’s sort of like the supervisors who simply cannot wait for someone to finish their presentation. They are far more important than whoever is up there informing us all.
He blamed the CXO. But I think I also heard him blame her for picking today for a meeting when she knew it was going to snow and kept it to herself.
According to the slides, there was 35% of the budget available (not off limits) to reduce to arrive at a budget to meet their guidance. He should look at that piece and come back with what he would have cut instead of $6 million for raises. But he won’t. Stewart should make him do just that.
Stewart was in smack down mode today. Ha. I guess he walked in and knew he was going to be dealing with obstructionism.
Jeanine and Pete really didn’t articulate clearly how they wanted to do things. Perhaps the time to have done that was during the meeting when they decided to have the budget work session.
Jeanine is doing herself no favors by getting herself labeled as the woman who doesn’t think for herself or play well with others. I never figured out why she deviated the few times she voted. Initial impressions are hard to overcome.
I wish they would move the meeting back to chambers so the rest of us can see what’s going on. Seeing it for yourself is a little different than reading about it in the newspaper.
Pete Candland is a first term Supervisor who decided he was going to remake Prince William County. I’m not surprised that the rest of the Board have gotten tired of putting up with his arrogance and are slapping him around a bit.
It’s about time. Jeanine Lawson isn’t even through her first year. She needs to decide if her mentor will be a Supervisor who has survived for three, four, five or more terms or one who might not make it through his second. Those Supervisors have been there a while because they know what folks who live here want. They aren’t going anywhere.
Candland’s not going anywhere either… but I don’t mean that in a good way.
I think Candland’s fifteen minutes of fame are up.
I was embarrassed for him. I also didn’t feel that he represented me.
Cheaper isn’t always better. He is lucky the SoN isn’t making comments about him always having to say something at every opportunity like he did about Marty. Ha! Who am I kidding. The G. E. wouldn’t let THAT happen.
For the sake of the residents I hope you’re correct. Nothing harder than bringing a community back from a terrible reputation of the schools or quality of life.
I actually get tired of reading what horrible schools we have on the blogs. Say it enough times and no one will move in to the area. Same with county government. The same nay-sayers will then whine that they can’t sell their house or that their house hasn’t appreciated enough, all while blubbering about high taxes and corrupt county government.
Well….self-fulfilling prophecy.
From my perspective (having sat through yesterday’s fiasco) most chiming in here are incorrect or weren’t paying attention early on.
1. Principi was right at the outset (a rare occurrence) regarding public input, Corey just handled Principi’s issue incorrectly by imperiously smacking his objection aside. It should have been handled differently and given the mood of the BOCS, Corey would have prevailed using the proper parliamentary procedures, he simply chose not to.
2. The same can be said for the manner in which he dealt with Candland’s objection to the process. It is not that Pete didn’t want to address the items in a line by line fashion, he simply questioned the value of the proceedings given that there was no opportunity to rack and stack the items so at to establish priorities. Instead, under yesterday’s procedures, everything was treated equally (allowing Principi and Jenkins and insert virtually everything back into the budget). The result being a new budget baseline that in Martino’s own words portend not a 4% increase but rather the potential for a 6.3% increase to accommodate all of the BOCS “wants”. Interestingly, Martino noted that even at 4% the school’s would be “short” $2.9 million. Who is going to explain that math.
3. All that yesterday’s exercise did (based on Peacor’s purposefully untenable proposal) was waste staff time and effort and compress the window for real budget deliberations. Quite frankly it was a budget stunt by the CXO that in private industry would lead to her immediate termination by the board of directors.
4. Faced with the prospect of a 6.3% increase, now the real work will begin. In all likelihood, yesterday’s stunt will blow up in Corey and Peacor’s faces as they have established which sacred cows they won’t allow to be slaughtered, opening the door to unexpected consequences for those programs and line items that have not yet been addressed. Pandora’s box has been opened, I hope they are prepared for the consequences.
Since I am the one making most of the remarks, then I suppose you and I are simply going to have to disagree on just about all of the budget issues. Of course, that should come as no shock. I pride myself on not being a cheap bastard.
#1. Perhaps. Frank sucked it up and moved on. I am not sure still what he wanted. I think he wanted to allow public input yesterday. I don’t believe yesterday was the time for that.
#2. so being an obstructionist is the solution? The abstention vote just looked like a temper tantrum. Pete isn’t always going to get his way.
#3. amazing how when Peacor does what she is told to do, that still isn’t right. They meet again next Saturday. Too bad it wont be televised so we can all see what transpires.
#4. They will do what they always do and trim back some of the money. It isn’t always keep or kill.
There are always things that can be modified. Things were saved yesterday that I would have killed. For example, soccer. I am not sure what that money goes for but whatever it is, the leagues should pick it up. Leagues or parents. How come football isn’t getting the same bone thrown to it?
Saving the salaries was the most important thing of all in my opinion. Apparently the chairman thought the same thing.
It blew up in Pete’s face, dear. You weren’t the only one there.
Mom, I know you are a big supporter of Ms. Lawson. Do you really feel she is doing herself any favors by aligning herself with only one board member?
I have always felt consensus building pays off more in the long run and in the short run.
potomaclocal.com:
Marty states the obvious. So what did Candland think when he made the motion to roll back to only a 1.3% increase? Where did he think the cuts were going to come from with the mandates and the sacred cows that got stuck in there by the BOCS?
Of course a big chunk of that money had to come from salaries. If no one on the board was going to entertain employee salaries, just where does Pete think the money is going to come from? He is the one playing games.
This is going to happen every year, it seems. The people who live in the biggest, most expensive houses are going to scream and kick the loudest about having tax increases.
Paying taxes is part of homeownership. Don’t they still do PITI when a person buys a house or was that just for us children of a lesser god?
Of course compensation would have to be cut. Five year plans are not only about new items, they also make sure those decisions are affordable over the long term. Compensation compounds, capital projects have debt and ongoing operating costs. Why so many park initiatives no longer fit.
The purpose of those straw votes was to test the pulse of the Board. Pete got his way with 1.3 but that was enough, this is serious stuff they can’t keep playing his silly Budget 101 attempts. He’s typical Tea Party – my way or I won’t participate. Unfortunately he’ll continue to be dismissed. The few hundred or so that give him feedback are not representative of the 420,000 or so residents but I guess staying in that bubble makes him happy. The rest have to get on with the business of running a billion dollar complicated organization.
Candland leaned back in his chair with his arms crossed and a scowl looking like a petulant little child who didn’t get his way. He kept pushing the abstain button preventing the public from knowing what he did and didn’t support. Lawson looked embarrassed to be in the same room with him.
Resignation is the normal path for failure. I wonder if he’s man enough to move out of the way and give someone who works well with others a chance to represent Gainesville.
I didn’t see her looking embarrassed. She followed suit.
That’s just no way to start off a new term.
I am not sure who thought up that strategy. It wasn’t good advice. That “abstain behavior” was just as childish as posting the FOIA request on his website. You just don’t do that. Now anyone who files a FOIA request should fear having it posted on a website that the taxpayers foot the bill for. People have a right to FOIA anything they want to FOIA, regardless of how stupid, regardless of how obnoxious, without fear of reprisal. I wish she had called in the ACLU but she is probably too republican to do that. I wouldn’t be if someone tried to publically humilate me like that.
That is not to say that FOIA request was stupid or obnoxious. As I recall, it was about money spent.
Your last sentence is very important. I certainly don’t always disagree with them; in many situations I do agree! But I won’t be part of how that horrible “group” behaves toward others – different beliefs.
Principi didn’t agree that they should review the items without getting citizen input. He didn’t like the process either. But he didn’t abstain. He just moved on. And I disagree with a lot of what he says but I do respect him; he behaves respectfully to all.
I watched part of the process, and having had similar experience as a Military Comptroller when the cuts are put up, I personally approved of it. Yes, the flaw in the County presentation was they were not placed in Priority Rank oder (like the Federal process does). That said, on the County Budget page is the Budget Decision Risk Matrix and the further breakout by Risk Scores in a seperate document.
Could the Staff have presented it by Major Activity like the Risk Scores has? Possibly; however, they did comply with the directive to “bring back the list”. As for the whining over “only 4 days to review it” – sounded like someone couldn’t pull his budget people together in time especially the couple that like to whack anything they do not see as “core service” by their definition. Back on February 17th, as soon as Ms. Peacor started talking, County Staff loaded everything on the webpage. Kudos to County Staff!
The supervisors should be giving kudos to county staff every time they open their mouths. This budget do and redo a million times is a monumental, behemoth job. The leaders present in a professional, pleasant way, even though I am sure they would secretly like to tell some of their “bosses” what they can go do to themselves. There are also lots of worker bees under these leaders who get home late, don’t fix dinner for their families and who probably are drinking pepto by the gallons.
Thank you county staff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Al Alborn’s blog is a MUST READ today. He recognizes county employee Allen Scarbrough for his work creating a tool that shows budget line items as sort of a before and after. Great work. 3.1% vs 4%.
Al Alborn gives his analysis of the current budget situation. I agree with him 100%.
Check out Al Alborn’s blog.
I have also been informed that this blog is listed as one of those who supports the 4% tax increase. Pretty much so. That’s what it’s going to take to keep us on the cutting edge of Northern Virginia counties. If I wanted to live in “yesteryear” I would have gone down to the Northern Neck to live.
I don’t care how many people sign on to 1.3%, Al Alborn had the quote of the day:
“That’s why those who count on the public’s stupidity don’t like him.”
Al was referring to Marty Nohe and how sharp he is about budget. Marty has always been the one to cut through all the BS and to deliver us the kind of county we really want to live in.
Good going Al, for a great quote–those who count on the public’s stupidity– You nailed it.
I have someone in mind for your quote. I can think of a person who very much likes to spin a great yarn. That web he/or she has spun sure sucked some folks in and depends on them being stupid and ill-informed. to keep things stirred up.
@Moon-howler
Thanks for the “shout out” Moon.
At the end of the day, it’s about what the community wants. I can live with that.
The community of which I speak has been sending the same folks back to the Dias for years. That tells me they must like the way things are going. I’m not sure that two first term (or, in Lawson’s case, first couple of months) Supervisors are really in a good position to dramatically change Prince William County’s current course and trajectory.
I would probably have taken a different approach if I saw a plan for “how” we get to 1.3%. Since none was presented, and from what I saw at Saturday’s budget meeting no viable plan really exists (as Marty Nohe pointed out, you can’t support raises for everyone and 1.3% at the same time) I support the process which the Board is using to get to a published tax rate.
I like Prince William County. While I may constantly make suggestions for ways to lower taxes, generate new revenue streams, or whatever at the end of the day I’m willing to pay the bill to maintain he quality of life we all enjoy.
The folks who show up at the budget meetings appear to agree with me. You gotta show up. We just aren’t stupid enough to let folks who hide behind anonymity while offering no solutions or alternatives tell us what to think.
Everyone knows where to find me. Happy to discuss over coffee any time.
Let’s face it, no one wants to pay more taxes. However, sometimes its just a necessary evil to have the goods and services we enjoy.
When I graduated from college, my parents were living down in the Northern Neck. I couldn’t get out of that place fast enough
I didn’t walk, I ran to Northern Virginia. I was a Charlottesville girl. I couldn’t go back there now either. Yawn. Too much sentimentality over “THE University.” That isn’t a cheap area to live either but we have lots more going for us.
I have good news. The “show” this Saturday will be recorded. It will not be broadcast from the county, however.
If you want to view the budget session from last Saturday:
http://www.pwcgov.org/government/bocs/Pages/Meeting-Room.aspx
Peter Candland reminds me of those dips**t young LT’s who showed up in-country right out of ROTC. Thought they knew everything. Didn’t listen to the grizzled old Sergeants who were pulling their second or third tour. Sooner or later those LT’s didn’t duck when they were told, and got their head blown off.
Better them than us. We just wanted to get home in one piece with all of our parts still attached.
I think we are watching Candland get his head blown off. Lawson better not stand too close. There’s still time for Lawson to start listening to the old guys. They know how to survive.
Well, that’s an interesting analogy, I must say.
The young LTs were always first over the hill back in my day. I went to college near Quantico. Lots of dips**t LTs going thru there during the Vietnam War. Some who weren’t dips**ts also. Lots didn’t come back. I had a few friends who became widows at an early age. Then there were the young women who ended up with men who were maimed. Toddy Puller was a few years ahead of me but we know that sad story. She and Lewis had very little time together.
I agree. Lawson needs to not stand too close. I would like to see her become more of an independent thinker. (confession: I tend to cheer for women a little louder than I do for men.)
Its easy to oppose everything. Proposing an actually solution requires critical thinking outside of the political spectrum. Neither supervisor is at risk of losing their seat. There’s nothing to lose! It is disappointing that the two supervisors with the most overcrowded schools in the county aren’t in favor of investing in the county to alleviate the problem. From jeanine’s campaign website… “With the largest class sizes in the entire Commonwealth of Virginia, there is clearly a problem. The Board of County Supervisors needs to recognize their land use decisions have contributed to the over- crowded schools and classrooms. Both boards can work together to find the best solutions for our children. Education is a core priority of county government, and we owe it to the students, parents, teachers, and taxpayers to provide the highest quality education possible.” Heavy on rhetoric, light on substance. What I glean from that statement, is that she wants to improve overcrowded classrooms. Time to fulfill your campaign promise and support the board’s original funding plan to the school board. We know she is opposed to any new development (we’ll see after the election) so if you don’t have proffers coming in to pay for schools, you need to provide additional resources. Pretty simple. Stating “our past land use policies left much to be desired” doesn’t solve anything. Any non-elected official can tell you our fast paced growth has led to overcrowding. That’s what separates political volunteers from true leaders – identifying the problem then proposing a solution. Guess we’ll see what kind of leadership is provided once they feel comfortable enough to take positions on what they would like to cut/fund.
Welcome to Moonhowlings, Greg.
Just saying NO really doesn’t solve anything. I would have liked to have seen some fresh ideas about how to work within a 1.3% increase and still keep our quality of life items. I don’t think it is possible and I don’t think either of the new candidates have a good grasp of what’s really in a budget. Cutting back the number of paper clips and reams of paper just isn’t going to cut it.
Less rhetoric, more solutions please.