So where would you have Alex Meyers use the rest room? He seems like a guy to me. I would chase him out of the ladies room in a New York minute.
I think the problem some of us have is that we can’t wrap our heads around our gender not always matching our genitalia. I can’t imagine identifying as a male. The closest I can get to it is attempting to use the bathroom standing up. I got a good hard spanking for that stunt! That has nothing to do with transgender.
I admit that “transgender” confuses me. It probably confuses most of us who classify ourselves as “normal.”
Regardless, discrimination is simply wrong.
My problem is not when there are adults involved. I have an issue with kids in the schools picking and choosing which bathroom – and locker – and shower to use. What is one to do when their son/daughter comes home from school and says that a boy when in the girls shower?
I can handle it – I am an adult.
@Pat.Herve
Well get ready Pat, because Obama is sending a letter to each and every public school system, telling them to allow students to use whichever bathrooms AND LOCKER-ROOMS they choose, or risk losing Federal funds.
This is why I will never put my daughter in public schools. It doesn’t matter how much they’ve improved on test scores and such. When a Leftist administration can dictate boys can be girls and girls can be boys, and use extortion to force schools to accept this lie, I will exercise what little freedom I have left, and keep my daughter out of there.
There are parents involved with the public schools.
The administration is saying that these people cannot be discriminated against as far as facilities go. It doesn’t say that boys are girls and vice versa.
There seems to be some sort of disconnect that the girl in the girls room with male parts is interested in girls. Well, there are girls in the girls room who are interested in girls too.
It just isn’t the same as it was when I was growing up or even when my kids were growing up. Kids also seem to be more respectful of differences, at least along those lines.
I don’t claim to understand it. I guess I just don’t fear it.
I am more afraid of child abductors, molesters, and rapists. Transgendered people, at least the ones I have known, just seem sort of harmless. (and somewhat off-putting to someone my age)
@MoonHowler
“The administration is saying that these people cannot be discriminated against as far as facilities go. It doesn’t say that boys are girls and vice versa.”
First, I didn’t assert that which you have attributed to me. But since you brought it up, what the administration is saying “Boys can decide they are girls, and girls can decide they are boys, and you have to accommodate this, or risk losing Federal funds”
In addition to not losing my grasp on reality, I haven’t lost the ability to read, either. Just because the administration is using extortion to force schools to indulge an individuals fantasy, doesn’t make it discrimination.
Where I challenge you is over it being an individual’s fantasy. I taught a couple kids who might be transgendered now. It was a lot more than fantasy.
This next statement is totally not PC but…its like they got their hormones scrambled. It’s rougher on boys than it is on girls by far.
So how do you determine what’s in someone’s pants or on their birth certificate? Should all iffy people carry their birth certificate?
Bruce/Caitlyn is a far more straight-forward case. Many are really ambiguous and very much “Boy named Sue” in outward appearance and behaviors.
“He seems like a guy to me. I would chase him out of the ladies room in a New York minute.”
Moon, that would be the normal, natural reaction. However, suddenly “because we said so” trumps every bit of common sense. You cannot chase him from the ladies room. That would make you “intolerant”, and “intolerance” is evil. Anytime you now say “wait a minute…” in opposition to someone else, you are now “intolerant”. Now, you can no longer disagree with the dictates from the state. You cannot cite religious beliefs as a basis either, even though title IX includes religion as part of the protected class. Sex is included…but gender is not. So we have to warp the meaning of words, so Sex and Gender are interchangeable, transient, and impossible to define (68 different genders now).
“I admit that “transgender” confuses me. It probably confuses most of us who classify ourselves as “normal.”
Doesn’t confuse me one bit. It is a psychological abnormality, a fantasy, that fails when objective measures (ie reality) are applied. And I will not accept a lie as truth. I do not see 5 fingers.
I don’t agree that it is a psychological abnormality in all cases. I also believe there are physiological components to it based on people I have known. Abnormal? yes in terms of being “different.”
If it were a psychological abnormality, it could all be fixed with therapy.
Do you think gay people are psychologically abnormalities?
@MoonHowler
Yes, there are those who are medically “intersex”. They have Chromosomal characteristics of male and females, and these manifest physiologically. This has been established by objective measures.
“Do you think gay people are psychologically abnormalities?”
While the hunt for a “gay gene” continues, a gay man is a man. Look at his chromosomes, and he is a he. If he walks into the men’s room, or changes in the men’s locker room at the gym, He is in the right place. It has always been this way. However, when a man walks into the ladies room, he is in the wrong place. I am sure that most people would agree with this. A man cannot just decide that he is a woman. But now the Federal government has used its power (not authority…POWER) to compel localities to accept this.
Now a question for you: Can I, a straight Caucasian Male, born in the USA with a minor military related service disability and a conversational Spanish-speaking suddenly decide to identify as an African American woman, a refugee from some war-torn country, 50% disabled US veteran and fluency in Korean? And since I “indentify” as such I should I be accommodated with regards to hiring with any public organization receiving public funds, or acceptance to a public university? Does it matter that I am not, by all objective measures, any of these things? Should the only thing that matters what I have decided I am, in my own mind?
It doesn’t matter how deeply I believe that I am an African-American, naturalized refugee from Swaziland, who was disabled in the service of my country, and has fluency in Korean. I am not. I can go to a tanning salon, get a perm, tuck my gear, and yammer away in some indecipherable manner, if I demand hiring preferences or some other accommodation and am refused, my basis for discrimination is false. Same thing applies to someone who takes some pills, grows out their hair, buys some new clothes, and has convinced themselves that they are a woman, and should therefore be able to shower with the girls when dressing out for gym.
I’m not the one whose lost touch with reality, and my refusal accept those who have doesn’t constitute discrimination or “intolerance”.
Apples and oranges.
I don’t think either of us are in the position to argue what makes a person become or be transgendered.
I just accept that there are some people who are.
Perhaps its as simple as sexuality not being totally binary.
@MoonHowler
So you say.
What I find most troubling is you have swallowed this lie: that someone can just “decide” to be that which they are not.
Just another rending of society through the application of false and artificial concepts.
The Bible said this would happen, a time when people would embrace lies as truth, call truth lies, call good evil, and evil good.
Pat is right: there will be big consequences for our society, because of this foolishness.
I’m done with this.
I don’t think I have “swallowed” anything. I accept that gender identity goes deeper than genitalia. I accept that some people are wired differently than I am. I accept that With some people, gender is not necessarily a binary situation. I also know that gender identity is that a small percentage of people have struggled with, probably since the beginning of time. I accept that it is easier for girls be “Tom-boys” than it is for males to be “girlie” in the eyes of society.
I also accept that I don’t really understand how these people feel. I do know that things like this aren’t really choices for many people.
People that are different are bullied horribly. I have witnessed this phenomena time and time again.
Society has accepted change over time fairly well. Women are now voting, wearing pants in public (meaning trousers, not drawers) blacks can vote and can go to school with white people and life as we know it did not end. Plenty of people quoted the bible in my home town on that subject and found justification for their beliefs in the bible.
I just don’t think its that big of a deal. If I am wrong and it becomes a big deal, then I feel confident someone will do something about it.
Right now I am far more concerned that someone who reminds me a lot of Hitler is going to be in the running to run America. I might not like Mario Rubio’s policies but I also wouldn’t feel that he was buying a presidency and that he would taking us towards world domination. I also don’t believe we would be building railroads to round up immigrants and dump them all at the border.
I guess different things concern different people.
Here’s confusing for you.
This is a girl.
http://41.media.tumblr.com/1c0a5cfc959aa2ff4c34c67c00a0f781/tumblr_nkrhfzwBao1qzrkhpo1_500.jpg
Physically, still a girl
So….. now what?
So she can go in the bathroom with your daughter right now, before Obama.
Yes, that’s confusing, and ugly
Add doors to all bathroom stalls! How can gender matter if there is only one person per stall? Are social conservatives channeling their 3rd grade selves to complain about cooties?
I am smiling.
Yes, add doors to all the stalls. Urinals….moot point anyway.
Yes, add doors to the stalls and shower curtains to the showers. What a bunch of mewling Henny Pennies today’s conservatives have become.
Back in my youth when the women’s room had too long a line at intermission at a concert – or even at the crowded sailing marina – we women would make a beeline for the men’s room. OMG! We survived being exposed to the urinals without dropping dead.
Also, to those men afraid for their daughters, most women have taught their daughters how to size up using the restroom. Mothers accompany the young ones and the older ones are taught to avoid anything “iffy”.
@Censored bybvbl
I confess that when recently exercising in a park and needing to relieve myself, I found a single un-occupied porta-john labeled “women” and used it. I’m not sure if there was a “men” version but a transgendered restroom eliminated the need for multiple porta-johns and allowed them to place facilities’ in multiple places in the park instead of at a single location.
If it is not big deal – why do we have boy’s and girl’s rooms in the first place? I have no problem out in the public space for adults to make their own decisions. I have no problem with ladies at a concert going into the men’s room.
I DO have a problem with it in elementary school. Mark my words, there is going to be a problem one day, with a boy and girl in the same bathroom in elementary school.
@Pat.Herve
Aren’t you concerned that there are boy and girls in the same cafeteria in school? There is touching and cooties at lunch OMG, UGH.
Teach kids how to use shared bathrooms in kindergarten. Only one per stall.
When I was a kid there were bathrooms off the classroom…one. It was for boys and girls. One at a time.
@ed
The current bathrooms are not engineered to be shared bathrooms.
Also, you appear to not be in the know about what goes on in schools currently.
I am feeling a disconnect. I don’t think anyone is suggesting unisex bathrooms or co-ed bathrooms.
@Pat.Herve
I’m not sure that it isn’t a bigger problem for the adults than it is for the children. My first elementary school had two stalls in the back of the class near the coat closet. We were just told “no peeking” and there wasn’t an attempt to separate the sexes of the kids in the room – just one kiddo per stall. And this was in the deep South in the 50s.
I would agree with you if we weren’t speaking of transgendered kids. It isn’t just all boys and all girls can switch bathrooms.
How many transgendered people are there in the population anyway? In schools, I would assume that someone there knew who was transgendered and who wasn’t.
I would worry more about the safety of the transgendered person than the other way around.
I think the jury is out.
I wonder if Steven considered it extortion when the feds forced the schools to integrate or the states to address air pollution in the 50’s and 60’s? The N.C. “bathroom bill” goes much further than just bathroom use, and when misguided zealots threaten civil rights or human health, the adults have to step in and use the power of the purse to correct it. Be nice if it weren’t necessary, but that ain’t the world we live in.