Luis Ramirez was murdered in mid July by a group of white teenagers. His story is one that should concern us all. While being beaten, the six teenagers, all whom were on the local football team, were allegedly yelling racial epitaths. Luis Rameriz was left on the street, bloodied, battered, and foaming at the mouth. He died two days after the attack, leaving behind a wife and two small children. There are many in the town that believe the actions of Hazelton greatly impacted the negative climate in the their town. Shenadoah, PA is located a mere 20 miles from Hazelton PA.
What was encouraging to me, watching and listening to this report, was the Mayor deciding that he was going to address this crisis head on by forming an advisory group to help build a new holistic community. It became clear to him that there was a division, seething below the surface, and until this tragic death of Luis Rameriz, he had been unaware of the growing tension. The mayor appears determined to help build a bridge between older generation of Shenandoah and the new inhabitants saying “we need to work together.”
One woman shared her experiences in town. While walking in town with her children, people have yelled out ” Here’s a quarter, take your kids to a landromat ’cause they are dirty half Mexicans.” She is caucasion and her partner is Mexican, a twenty year resident of Shenandoah. She now fears for his safety.
You know what I noticed after I watched this very sad story, in the comment section, what someone wrote:
“If the entire town is guilty because of one drunken fight doesn’t that make all illegal immigrants guilty since some of them commit crimes? Do you see MS-13 holding vigils for the people they’ve murdered. Someone should kick those jew reporters in the throat.”
This is not first anti-semitic comment I have seen in reference to the issue of illegal immigration. For many people, the allowed villification of one group is only the “gateway” to hate many more. I understand that many people have concerns about immigration, but there is a growing number of people who are becoming more and more comfortable, expanding their target of who is un-American. As much as I disagree with Michael, and still cannot understand his beliefs against illegal immigration since his wife was an illegal immigrant, I don’t recall him ever saying a racial slur against latino’s. But most people who come here to “debate” ,inevitably, say something that is clearly racially based. I’m not sure they are even totally aware of what they are saying and the implications of their comments. Are decent people so easily seduced to marginalize and villify a certain group of people? Are we experiencing a fair sampling of our citizenry on this blog?
I think it is important to note that this town is Shenandoah PA not Shenandoah VIRGINIA.
This is a horrible story and one that all 2 frequently is heard. If I am not mistaken, similar things have happened right here in our own community. This is just senseless–a young man dead and 3, 4 other lives ruined because no one ever taught the perps that bullying is wrong. Look what bullying led to. sickening!
No more tragic than when MS-13 gang members beat or hack someone to death. I think I’d be more concerned about MS-13 than a couple of high school football players. The chances of me being attacked by gang members is far far greater than being attacked by the local football squad. I also don’t remember the local football squad ever selling drugs for new football equipment. Besides, for each case like this I’m sure there were probably 30 deaths at the hands of gangs that same day across the nation. You’re only upset because you see the racial conflict that was involved. Deporting illegals will also net a few potential murderers I’m sure.
The real tragedy here is that this could have been avoided. ICE needs the funding and mandate to return these poor folks to their home countries where they’ll be safe and these unfortunate incidents won’t happen.
SecondAlamo,
Yes, understood…gang activity=bad, scary.
Direct question: do you think this man deserved to die? Are you OK with the fact that he died, as some sort of acceptable casualty of the war against illegal immigration?
I was shocked when I realized how young the assailants were. This is clearly a result of teaching hate.
Someone mentioned MS13. This is no different except its organized by their parents.
I am sure they (the parents) regret what they’ve done now that they’ve lost their children as a result of their own actions.
SA I think who you are afraid of depends on what you look like. Gender, age,race….
Yeah, I’d rather be beaten and killed by highschool football players than Latino gang members. And if I had to chose being killed by an illegal drunk driver is ten times worse than your regular run-of the mill American drunk driver. [sarcasm button off]
SC,
I’ll guarantee you this, they didn’t check his legal status before they killed him. This man was a father to a US Citizen, so, at some point, in time he most likely would have been allowed re-entry. Are you suggestioning that he would have been ‘safer’ if he had had legal status?
SA,
I disagree. We expect gang members to be dangerous and they wear all the signs that they are gang members. They strut their colors, tattooes, etc. We do not expect football players to be gang members. As for them selling drugs….you might want to put your ear to the ground on that one. Seems that if you are a football star and sell drugs you are dealt with quite differently than if you are just a regular Joe. Yes, local scuttle-butt.
Alanna makes an excellent point–no one checked his status and I am sure that the football team in Shenandoah, PA doesn’t have ICE status or a MOU with them.
SecondAlamo, as a middle-class white man (Is that correct?) you are not likely to be attacked by local football players, no. You are also not likely to be attacked by MS-13 members since according to the FBI, their violence tends to be against other gang members and others in their orbit and ethnic enclave.
Yes, Moonhowler, but do some jocks sell drugs to buy football equipment? That apparently is SA’s concern.
I support freedom of speech and speech can be very powerful stuff. It’s our culture to maintain. We have to maintain it or we lose it. Violent culture in general should not be glorified on tv or in music. But it oftentimes is.
Life influences art and art influences life.
Some people are quick to point out and denounce violent culture when they see it on tv. They rightfully identify it as a negative message and influence.
Funny thing is though, some of those same people eat up Lou Dobbs every night dehumanizing american babies with terms like ‘Anchor Babies’ and spewing war propaganda with terms like ‘invasion’.
The hypocrisy is interesting to watch. Do as I say not as I do.
Here’s someone who knows what I’m saying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX9Dbl4lG6c
You know it is common for groups like The Border Angels to go out to the locations where they stored water for immigrants and find that the water bottles have all been slashed. That is an indirect way of killing people. Except the cowards who do it don’t have the courage to look their victims in the eye. It might not be illegal but it certainly is immoral (one more example of how the law doesn’t equal justice).
Where’s the outrage? Human rights anyone?
Soy Culero
Interesting pseudonym.
Very interesting. Does it infer “yo”?? Am I showing my limited knowledge of the language?
Thank you Elena, 0:04, and yes I never will say a racial slur. I believe in the integration of all people, not in their separation into factioned gender, racial, ethnic, and religious hate groups.
Factions are the way to hatred. To prevent this we must focus only on the law, treat “legal” people the same, and punish “illegal” people the same under the law (no favoritism or looking the other way). People must clearly separate this in the community “lexicon of offense” language, and attitudes regarding right and wrong, punishment and non-punishment.
All races, genders, religions and ethnic groups must learn to give up their political identities, and their roots, political ideology and group-centric way of thinking, in order to give up their hatred of others not like themselves.
Once you can give up your “celtic roots”, “black roots”, “hispanic roots” or “native roots”, you can look at everyone without prejudice, anger and hatred. This is extremely important in a political sense. Only recreational and entertainment culture is innocent and non-violant. Political culture along racial, gender, religious and ethnic group lines of power is very explosive, destructive and dangerous throughout history. It is what creates socilism, facism and autocracy, rather than democracy (where everyone GIVES UP cultural citi-state identity). The greeks and
Romans new the effects of this well. Once you give up racial, gender, religious and ethnic group political identity, all you have left is “national identity”, and recreational culture that only maintains its “holiday culture”, not its “political culture”.
Democracy and national culture, merge people together,literally, and allow them the mechanism to stop hating each other. This is what I have learned from wars on the other side of the world, and this is what we need to continue to encourage here.
Once you separate into races, genders, religions and ethnic groups POLITICALLY, you have the seeds for conflict and hatred.
Most people do not understand this very well, but it is the root cause of atrocities like the one above.
Michael,
You are welcome.
What about the most simplist of identity, even beyond the term of legal and illegal……………..the identity of being a part of the human race. That truly is the ONLY defining element that connects us all. On one hand you want us to embrace the idea of letting go of our own identities, but then, you endorse the idea of us vs them when it comes to immigration. Is it alright then to define ourselves and separate as legal Americans?
Conflict is on the rise because people are re-claiming and PROCLAMING their cultural religious, racial, gender and ethnic group IDENTITY, and aligning it as a political identity for power and advantage, much more than in the last 30 years of US history. Other countries in the world have never stopped doing this and are always in ethnic class conflict. They have no “Democracy” only ethnic group-centric political criminals running the society. Conflict and atrocities such as the one above are the symptoms of that “class” separation and undercurrent of national identity erosion. It will get far worse unless cultural self-segregation and alignment along gender, racial, religious and ethnic group political lines of power is stopped and democracy (individual rights focus) is made the enforced law of the land, instead of group identity and ethnic, gender, religious and racial group political beliefs made the “un-written laws of the land”. It must be stopped, or more atrocities like the above will increase in frequency, until a major conflict breaks out between these aligned politcal groups, until we are just like the middle east in our social anger and political thinking process. This is one reason why “illegal” immigrants are so dangerous, they bring these political beliefs with them and do not think in neutral ethnic-group political ideology. They in fact promote “class” and ethnic separation, and very often criminal politics and corruption on a “class” basis. People are becoming more and more threatened by that, as those in the middle east have always been threatened by that and have always had these de-humanizing atrocities a part of daily life because of it. You have only to walk the streets of IRAQ, Lebanon or Saudi Arabia (or other areas of ethnic conflict), to know this.
I so much agree with you about being desirable to identify with the “humanity” of one human race as the noble goal, I wish this too, and wish people would politically integrate, but in practice people want to belong to gender, racial, religious and ethnic groups for social advantage and power, more then they want to see themselves as ALL one big happy race. That is the fundamental problem. Until people cant drop this need for group identity, group law and learn to act as a DEMOCRACY, by giving up Gender, racial, religious and ethnic group citi-state political identity, we will not stop war and conflict, and atrocities like the one above will continue. The problem is “classes” and genders, races, religions and ethnic group separatism creates divides in the concept of ONE humanity. People persuing power, and creating “followers”, will criminaly, and skillfully politically create “Separate” humanities, with separate political group laws, oppressing all others as “inhuman” along these racial, gender, religious and ethnic group political lines of power. That is why people hate, they are taught to through this social and political racial, gender, religious and ethnic group-centric politcal alignment mechansim. This is why I fight “illegal” immigration. It increases this problem and never in history has ever reduced it. This is also way Diversity and Multi-culturalism is a problem. It too increases this problem, and never in history has ever reduced it. ONLY democracy and re-nouncing your ethnic, racial, gender and religious group citi-state identity has ever historically led to national peace, prosperity, increased trade and reduction of violence. This is what the military is trying to create in the middle east to stop their wars, create democracy, create national identity, and remove ethnic, and religious group political identity, which perpetuates the conflict and continued atrocities on “Humanity”. These people hate each other because they see themselves as separate, gender, racial, religious and ethnic groups, perpetuating “class” conflict.
People just don’t understand this.
“US” verses “them” can only apply in democratic law, illegal and legal behavior in law. I do not see “illegals” in ethnic group terms, only “illegal” terms, and so should everyone else. The problem is people are not. Even PRO illegal groups are not and it is causing Class conflict and struggle of the kind I described above. They are dividing into races, genders, religions and ethnic groups. LAW, NOT ETHNIC DIVISION into Political citi-state legal entities, is the only way to separate “good” and “bad” behavior, keep the peace and ensure the prosperity of the Majority (majority is not an ethnic group) in a DEMOCRACY.
Maybe this is why none of you understand what I am talking about, because you do not understand this. It is fundamental to world peace and “unified” humanity. Separation into gender, racial, ethnic, and religious group political classes, destroys that “unified” humanity.
Then Michael, so does separating by “national” origin also . Aren’t you perpeputating what you say is the downfall of humanity, separating by any defintion, i.e. race, religion, ethinicity, and gender. You want us to separate by “state” identity.
Juturna,
Soy means I am – yes basically “yo” which in espanol translates I or me.
Culero is sometimes translated a** hole or it’s a very derogatory word for a gay man.
It also can be translated diaper.
So that is why I thought Soy Culero’s pseudonym was interesting.
Michael,
See my comment about democracy, etc. in the Henry Cejudo thread.
Anti-BVBL Heros:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwETXn6_kvM
Soy Culero,
This is a fringe group AND you’d be a fool to succumb to the propoganda of Californians for Population Stabilization.
Thanks for sharing that Marie. Can we make a rule against people without a clue using the Spanish language in a way that insults Latinos, gays, people in general? Especially if the best they can do is refer to racist front groups on You Tube?
Marie,
Thanks for the translation, truly disgusting.
Thanks, Marie. I knew part of it wasn’t sure if “yo” was missing or if it was an idiom.
“I was shocked when I realized how young the assailants were. This is clearly a result of teaching hate.”
I don’t know about that. High-school athlete types develop their own anger and hate about things sometimes, independent of parents or teachers.
The story is a sad one but I am honestly surprised there is not much more violence like this happening, and I think it is a real possibility. It should be no surprise and the story is old as time itself. The anger comes not just from racism, but from the fact that Americans’ wages and standard of living goes down from illegal immigrants. What kind of reaction would you expect? Americans used to have bare-knuckle battles and beat hell out of each other over strikes and unions and wages, to make a decent wage for their families. Did that stop for good? Or will it happen again, as the economy goes downwards?
Rick,
Your post is very true, unfortunately, regarding the anger towards new immigrants. Certainly the italians, Germans, Irish, Jews, etc etc all experienced the same reaction. Yet, our country is stronger for their emmigration.
What Elena said.
Rick, If you look back at nativist rhetoric from the 19th century onward, legal immigrants were also accused of the same effect on wages, along with all the other attacks on their culture, language use, and religion, etc.
Yes, Leila
Separation by “nation” divides communities into “democracies” and non-democracies and laws of one land from laws of another land, regardless of Race, Religion, Gender or Ethnic group.
IF and when we fight it then is “not” as an ethnically divided nation inside our borders which will lead to faster downfall of democracy, but a fight between democratic and non-democratic ideologies, that can be legally dealt with on an international scale of law.
It would be wonderful but naive to believe we have reached a point of being able to not discrimminate between nations and different laws between nations, until we have an international police capable of enforcing international and common law, an international common law, and an international common language to create the necessary conditions to supress international criminal corruption of the political hierarchy, create international peace and international prosperity, by joining a truely common humanity. We have to first solve that very difficult problem in our own country first before we can “sell it” to others.
Dividing our own country into conflicting factions aligned along racial, gender, religious and ethnic lines of political power, will never obtain a state of “common humanity” even “inside” our own borders if we do not discourage it.
Whenever I think about this incident, or the minutemen or Help Save Manassas, I think of BB King. Someone told me that BB King once said that the hateful people would have likely killed all the black folks in Mississippi if it weren’t for the many, many good hearted white folks.
That used to encourage me. I thought, “We’ll see. When Herndon elects a new mayor, the silent majority will finally speak out.” But they booted the mayor and replaced him with an anti-immigrant fanatic. Then when a group of rich people protested a bunch of lower class men who were merely looking for work, I thought, “The sleeping giant is going to awaken after seeing this.” I was wrong.
When six Mexican men were murdered in Georgia, some people were more upset that the town flew the Mexican flag in mourning the next day than they were about the human beings being killed. When a camp of migrant workers was vandalized a couple of years ago, few cared. Now a man, lying inconscious on the ground, was kicked repeatedly in the head.
I think we’re in this for the long haul. I don’t think there is a sleeping giant poised to awaken.