Can we ever find common ground other than the kind described in above?
28 Thoughts to “Common Ground”
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Blogroll
- 9500Liberty
- Bacons' Rebellion Blogspot
- Bearing Drift
- Blue Virginia
- Citizen Tom
- Counts of Monte Cristo. The
- Derecho, The
- Dixie Pig, The
- My Side of the Fence
- My Star Journey
- NARAL Pro-Choice VA Blog
- New Dominion Project
- Nova Common Sense
- NovaTownHall Blog
- One Libertarians's Point of View by Al Alborn
- Pete Candland's Blog
- Potomac Local
- Prince William Muckraker
- PW Conservation Alliance
- PWC Moms
- PWCPolitics.com
- PWCPolitics.com
- Red NoVA
- Shad Plank, The
- She the People
- State of NoVA, the
- The Jeffersoniad
- Townhall
- VEA Daily Reports
- VivianPaige
- WDGolden.com
- You, Me and the Lamp Post
What does “common ground” really mean? I picture some sort of human Venn diagram.
who knows. We all got stuck on ‘mainstream’ also. I guess it depends on whose mouth it comes out of.
I always thought common ground meant some part of an argument that people could find agreement on.
I think that as long as we have polar opposites that are intent on completely demonizing each other, the above illustration will hold true. Gone are the days of across-the-aisle friendships and respect, like Ronald Reagan and Tip O’Neill. Now the opposition is either radical socialist or racist rabble-rouser, and the slanderous and false dichotomy is egged on by the MSM and used as political capital. Any allegation becomes the truth, without any burden of proof needed anymore. Whatever happened to the 5 W’s I learned in high school journalism?
Orin Hatch and Ted Kennedy is another.
Do you suppose that MSM is reflecting reality or reality is being created by MSM. I noticed in the 80s this stuff starting. By the time Clinton got in office, the war was on. It certainly isn’t real recent, it is just more intense.
I don’t think Reagan started it. Not by a long shot. But that is when I first noticed the rancor that didn’t end at the end of the day. Or maybe that is just when I noticed. Maybe it has always been this way and what we are witnessing is just people having much worse manners and information flowing more freely so we are aware.
I decided, it is the manners and the terms of engagement. Anything goes.
Maybe it is the manners. But maybe it even gets beyond that, to breaking all taboos and boundaries just because you can, and maybe there is some level of thrill in the “victory”. And that is why you have a group of people like the Westboros who have decided that even funerals are no longer sacred, and mourners are fair game. And why my fellow commuters in the morning apparently don’t see the person behind the wheel as a human being whom they are putting at risk with their road rage and bullying. Ever make a simple mistake on the road, like starting to pull out because you didn’t see the car in your blind spot? Even if you back off and wave your apology, the person will surge ahead, get in front of you and jam on their brakes to scare you. Everyone’s an opponent these days, it seems.
@Emma
I like that visual, and I think someone should draw it up, Emma. Start with, “What do we all need?”
1. Heath care
2. Jobs
3. A chance to succeed
4. Freedom without anarchy
Emma, I don’t disagree at all. My suggestion of manners was far too simplistic. You have tackled the far more complex question with some good basic observations and examples.
Yes, what makes Westboro even exist? I don’t even know what their point is, they have overstated so much.
I have always thought that Oliver Stone annoyingly represented by generation. I felt that he was loud, proud and beat you over a head to make sure you agreed with him, long after you had. That was NOTHING compared to what I see now.
Back in the day, our parents made sure we didn’t break those taboos. If we did, it was a reflection on them. I don’t think parents really have that kind of control now. I don’t see it if its there.
I think too many of today’s parents’ identities are wrapped up in what junior achieves or doesn’t achieve. Instead of being their kiddo’s apologist if the kid errs, they are the kid’s biggest advocate even if the kid is a brat. He/she can’t be a brat – that’s a reflection on the parents and some parents will have none of that!
The elections in the next few years should be interesting. Independents are as numerous as Republicans or Democrats and have the ability to throw any election. Will they choose the least extreme candidate? Will more candidates run as Independents? It seems the perfect opportunity for moderates of either party to run as Independents. The problem, of course, would be raising enough money to stand a chance. Voters are too easily swayed by stupid talking points and fear-mongering in my opinion and the parties with the most money will flood the airwaves with their crapola.
I think much of the rudeness in this area is caused by congestion. The traffic rudeness used to be seen closer to DC as the traffic became thicker. Now the bottlenecks are everywhere. If anyone has to travel to simple destinations such as Tyson’s or Alexandria, he/she has a window between 9:30 and about 2:30 to do so and return without getting stuck in traffic. People start to get PO’ed when they get in their cars and can’t make a simple trip without wasting time. Public transportation sucks during non-rush hours.
I’ve seen some of the same nastiness in small town forums where I used to live. I think much is generated via the internet and the standard crapola that gets passed around by both parties’ emails. I think people are too rushed to tease out the truth about subjects and fall victim to the fear-mongering both parties use. When I hear the same talking points in Manassas as I do in small town Georgia, my eyes glaze over and I nod off. Yawn…
From Mirriam-Webster online dictionary: Main Entry: slav·ery
Pronunciation: \ˈslā-v(ə-)rē\
Function: noun
Date: 1551
1 : drudgery, toil
2 : submission to a dominating influence
3 a : the state of a person who is a chattel of another b : the practice of slaveholding
Definition number two applies to the federal government, which deprives 50% of Americans of their money, talent, and property for the benefit of the other 50%. This fact was made abundantly clear this week when it was revealed that 47% of Americans pay no income tax. That, coupled with passage of the HCR bill despite widespread objections, removes any incentive to seek compromise and find common ground.
I need to learn much more about that report before I decide to go shoot myself. I would like to see a breakdown of those 47% as to why. Are those people too poor? Do they have write offs that make them responsible for zero federal tax?
I read the numbers. I didn’t read why. If we have 47% of the people too poor to pay taxes, then something is wrong there also.
Who published that report? I heard the results but no name attached to the report. So no painful suicide for me yet.
Does that 47% figure refer to working adults? Are children included? More info is needed.
Are y’all talking about this report? http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1001289_who_pays.pdf
i like the chart – it’s easy to see what’s what.
I don’t see what’s what. For starters, tax unit isn’t defined.
That informtion seems very vague. Not going to slit my wrists yet,
It looks to me that the demographic least likely to pay taxes at $50K income is “married filing jointly” with children. Also those with higher incomes who have a high percentage paying taxes tend to have no children. This makes sense when you think that married with children tend to be younger and on the lower end of the pay scale. As people age, their earnings increase and their “deductions” move away from home.
So it seems to me that overall, those least likely to pay taxes are married with children and those with low income. That doesn’t bother me as a middle income single person with no children — the group most likely to pay taxes.
A tax unit refers to a tax return filed by a single person, a couple, or a head of a family. The point is that more than half of all tax units with children (whether single parent or family) pay no income tax. Tax cuts for low- and middle-income families were included as part of the economic recovery package in 2008. The net effect was to make the tax code even more “progressive” so that fewer “units” pay taxes.
My beef is that with almost 50% no longer paying taxes, a large proportion of voters no longer care about the cost of government. They will be free to vote for whomever promises the largest benefits, because the costs associated with the benefits will be borne by someone else. This is essentially what happened with healthcare reform — those in favor of it believe that the costs will be shifted elsewhere (i.e. insurance companies, government, etc.)
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1
That is a very easy to read tax article. I could even understand it. It was a little difficult without specific information on what a tax unit really is.
I sure got more back in taxes when I worked and had kids.
My problem with all this is as follows– a couple here making 50k with 2 kids is struggling. No wiggle room. 50K is a lot more money out in the middle of no where or even some cities than it is here. That part isn’t equal.
All the other taxes people pay cannot be overlooked. No one escapes paying some taxes. Probably one of the more ridiculous areas that is taxed would be the tax on social security. Now give me a break.
Everyone needs to pay something, even if it is only 10 dollars a month. I don’t like this idea of tithing to the feds though…regardless.
Kelly, I think I am going to agree with you. It does change voter incentive. On the other hand, people at different stages of their life tend to vote for different things. For example, parents with young kids might vote differently than seniors than singles in high paying jobs.
Flat tax. Everyone above poverty level pays. Fold Soc Sec and Medicare/medicaid into the tax. One tax for everyone. Lets make it 15%. No deductions. The SS program is dead. Bankrupt. Phase it out. Pay those that are in the system and the next 5-10 years worth out of general fund. All of this is paid out of there anyway. If we must have a government run pension, put the money into government bonds that pay out on your 60th birthday. They could even convert existing accounts to it now. No more inheritance tax. No Capital gains. Tax either corporate profits or dividends, but not both. Dividends come from corporate profits. No double taxation. I would rather have no corporate taxes. No taxation without representation.
Also, either let DC residents have no income taxes or they can vote in the Congressional elections for Maryland. No Statehood for DC.
No more pensions for Congress.
Whatever they pass has to apply to them.
That’s pretty harsh there, Cargo.
No one has said what kind of taxes corportations are paying. How many pay nothing?
I don’t like social security, medicare and medicaid being lumped together. I don’t mind paying little on capital gains but I sure mind paying 15% or higher.
I do agree about taxes on dividends being double taxes. I would be willing to split with the corportions. [she said, magnanimously]
The US has the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world. I believe #1 is Japan.
I side with Cargo on this. A flat tax is the most fairest tax we can have. Treat everyone the same – treat everyone equally (I know, its a silly concept). All pay a share and ante in and no person, category, activity, etc. is given favor by being deducted from your tax bill.
I dont mind everyone one paying something. I am just not one for food for thought to become a full course meal.
I have heard that half of the corporations don’t pay taxes. Let’s talk about that for a while?
Sure, I’m open. Got some articles to cite so we can review/discuss?
I would not be averse to a national consumption tax to replace completely the income tax. Rebates would be available to lower-income folks.
The more you spend the, the more you pay; the more you save, the less you pay.
Oh, and here’s an interesting article on Ron Pau and Obama:
Ron Paul: President Obama Is Not A Socialist
He’s not a socialist.”
“He’s a corporatist,” Paul continued. “And unfortunately we have
corporatists inside the Republican party and that means you take care
of corporations and corporations take over and run the country.”
Paul said examples of President Obama’s “corporatism” were evident in
the heath care reform bill he signed into law last month. He said the
mandate in the bill put the power over health care in the hands of
corporations rather than private citizens. But he said the bill wasn’t
the only place where corporatism is creeping into Washington.
“We see it in the financial institutions, we see it in the military-
industrial complex,” he said. “And now we see it in the medical-
industrial complex.”
(Ron Paul’s) speech, which touched on his oft-repeated calls to close
down American military bases overseas ….
“http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/ron-paul-president-obama-
is-not-a-socialst.php”
The Formerly’s finished up our taxes this weekend. Our effective marginal rate was 51% for Federal, plus 5.75% for the State. So for every extra dollar we earn 57 cents goes to the Government.
It’ll be worse next year when the tax cuts expire. And even worse when the Medicare surcharge that’s part of HCR hits (2011 I think.) I expect our top marginal rate to be in the mid to upper 60% range within two years. (Assuming that nothing comes out of the debt commission, would that it be so.)
Mrs. Formerly is excited about it though. It means we’ll be cutting back on work and spending more time smelling the roses and investing in tax deferment instruments (legal ones, of course). I mean, what’s the point in working your tail off for 33-43 cents on the dollar.
Of course, it means less in tax revenue, but the Keynesians say that can’t happen. Because apparently, they’ve never actually talked to a HWI with the ability to adjust income.
It feels like our fiscal and economic policies are being dictated by the writers of Groundhog Day, where it’s 1974 every morning.
FA, I encourage people everyday to “shrug” and not earn or work to their maximum potential. It’s just not cost effective to do so under a progressive tax system especially when you are so close to a demarc (or step).
Starry, I pretty much agree with what you said; with the exception of a rebate program under the consumption tax. As you said; the more you spend – the more you pay.
Barter systems for the win!! 🙂
@Moon-howler
How is it harsh? Shouldn’t every citizen support the whole? And SS, Medicare, etc are already paid out of the general fund, so why not simplify and combine all taxes?
Since corporate taxes are an expense, the taxes are figured into price. So, technically, they don’t pay taxes, consumers do. Since corporations are owned by shareholders and those are paid by dividends, then tax the dividends. Not tax corporations will bring more business to America.
Starry, sounds like you support the Fair Tax idea.
Since Congress will NEVER repeal the income tax amendment and reduce their power, the best we can hope for is a change in existing law. I don’t think we can get rid of the income tax. And now, Obama is floating a VAT tax. If that passes, we are really going to hurt.
For the please tax-us and Give-us-more crowd, e.g., that refuse to acknowlege that every time the tax rate goes down the revenues go up, there is some encouraging news…The Tax Foundation (www.taxfoundation.org) calculates that the income tax rates needed to eliminate the federal deficit are as follows, — which I do not buy because the economy would go underground – much like that other successful progressive socialist state called the USSR – just before it fell. Hey, folks — its coming, unless it is stopped in November.
Current Tax Rate New Rate Required
10% 24.3%
15% 36.4%
25% 60.6%
28% 67.9%
33% 80.0%
35% 84.9%
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!