I cannot push the image of Krystal Ball out of my mind. I am not even sure I would vote for her. I know nothing of her politics. They don’t matter. My melt down is over the way people who consider themselves conservatives have trashed and denigrated this young woman and, yes, her husband at the time. Ms. Ball is someone’s wife, mother, daughter and sister.
Krystal Ball owes no one any explanations. She was with her own husband in the privacy of someone’s home. Someone betrayed her and violated the sanctity of her marriage. Couples should not have to explain their love life to others.
What is it that makes some conservatives feel they can degrade her, make crude comments about her? Where is their sense of outrage over someone violating the privacy of this couple? Is it because Ms. Ball dared to go into politics? Is it her youth? Is it that she obviously has a lust for life?
I need conservative principles explained to me. No one here on this blog has been disrespectful. But traveling around the blogosphere, observing that which has gone viral, I see attack after attack from people who are obviously conservative.
Where does the sanctity of marriage kick in? Help me understand. Those pictures were not posted by Ms. Ball anywhere in public. What is the difference in posting those pictures and being your common, every day Peeping Tom? Don’t conservative values include guarding the privacy of married couples? How about being respectful of people’s wives? Don’t most conservatives believe in family values and wouldn’t those values guard the privacy of this couple? How many people who made sexist comments voted for the Virginia Defense of Marriage Act?
It’s easier to focus on crap like Krystal’s photos than it is to do something productive or read how she stands on the issues. Americans love sex, and they love to make anything sex-related sensational or dirty. Look at what we focused on in the Clinton era. We’re an embarrassing nation in many ways, and this is one of them.
I hear crickets chirping. I don’t think anyone has any answers here.
Is this one of the all’s fair in politics situations?
I came of age in a time when people didn’t do things like that–talk about married couples. I remember that the entire issue of Kate Summersby didnt even come up until after Dwight and Mamie were dead and buried in the press. It was out of respect for the office of the president and out of respect for Mamie.
I am also going to try to hide this one a little, but there was a political opponent who had an extra maritial situation and the Clinton people refused to use it. Also the Kennedy issues were never discussed, out of respect for the wives. The Krystal Ball issue should fall into the same category.
The silence on this matter is deafening.
I don’t understand how this is focused on ‘conservatives’? If you recall I don’t give a flip about Ms. Ball’s personal life nor do I see it having any bearing on her ability to be elected to office but since this is directed at ‘conservatives’ by implication this thread is directed at me.
So, I’m confused.
Maybe you can make the arguement about social conservatives…maybe. But, conservatives? It’s like saying all liberals are anti-gunners. I know some liberals that have more guns & ammo than I! 🙂
[Editor note: So do I but if I named them they would not only HAVE to kill me, they would do it in a slow painful way. MH]
Every entity of whatever political or ideological or any other generally defining characteristics will have within its ranks those who do the oddball, even unsavory, hypocritical, and unprincipled, things. That does not mean that you have to throw an all-encompassing blanket over such an entity and demand that the others who do not do such things have to cough up an explanation and mea culpa for the actions of others. I feel no compunction whatsoever to answer for those others. That’s between you and them. I’ve already lashed out elsewhere with regard to the “gotcha” trend in politics, but I am certainly not going to surrender my own values because there are some apostates out there. And, believe me, the shoe can always fit on the other foot in this politically diversified country of 300 million souls.
I don’t think conservatives in general need to answer for the actions of a few, any more than the Tea Party has to answer for the actions of a very (tiny) few objectionable signs. But if we are going to follow that logic anyway, shouldn’t we also expect all Muslims to answer for the actions of their far more numerous radical elements?
Emma, Ms. Behar and Ms. Goldberg would disagree with you…and then walk off the set.
@marinm
I said clearly not people on this blog. But if you look around the blogosphere, you will see attacks by people who appear to be conservatives.
Marin, I think of you as a libertarian, not a conservative.
@Emma, that is a good answer. There sure seemed like more than a few but perhaps they were duplicates.
@Wolverine, I do think it is important to talk about the issues I brought up.
I have heard snide remarks on cable TV and have read perfectly horrid things on the blogs. The remarks were made by people who by all other indications are conservatives.
I am neither a conservative or a liberal, but I expect on issues like this one, conservatives would consider me a liberal (it gets much worse than me, by the way)
I am very curious why people making crude remarks about people’s wives haven’t been called out. I am calling them out as a centrist who probably leans more left than right. How about the right folks?
Marin, I am reserving judgement on that until I hear what O’Reilly said. Supposedly he said he could have handled it better.
Emma, how about Christians taking the fall for all the abortion provider killings? I am not ready to do that.
I am asking questions here….had I said all conservatives are pigs, then I could understand outrage (deserved outrage) directed at me. But I want to know what makes people feel that is ok to do. Is it an age thing? It is because of the warrior part of culture warrior? I don’t know.
Moon, you and I are more or less peers both in age and life experience. You are right, in my opinion, with regard to it possibly being an “age thing” — at least in part. I see things all over the blogs and in the media which make me cringe simply because I remember an era when such things were limited by personal probity, informal societal disapproval, and simple politeness. It’s now on the Left, the Right, and often everywhere in between. Certain TV and radio pundits, regardless of political slant, sometimes make a living by playing at times to the worst of it. We have become a “gotcha” country and, far too often, a downright vulgar and nasty country; and I, for one, hate it. I remember a time when the definition of being a “gentleman” was that you did not talk about embarrassing or personal things and especially about your interactions with the opposite sex. Now we put it on the internet without even a second thought toward fairness or whether someone will really get psychologically hurt by what we have done.
If I may be excused for being crude here, I often find myself now caught in the cross-fire between my absolute belief in the First Amendment and the piles of crap which seem to compose many a public expression on all sides these days. A kid gets outed on the internet, and he jumps off a bridge. We cluck about sadly for a little while, and then the scene goes right back to the usual piles of crap. My personal reaction is to hold fast to my own conservative values and my own principles of conduct, both religion-based and learned from good, old-fashioned parents, and to strike out verbally when I see someone being unfairly maligned in my opinion. I base my actions at the polling place on both those conservative principles and those personal principles. That is all the power I have in this country. When I was younger and had risen to high managerial rank, I had a chance to put those principles of mine into practice within my own sphere of action. Now all I have is a good wife, a pension and a rather cranky old computer; and my principal sphere of action for the impartation of lessons on fairness and a principled life is my immediate family, where my grandchildren will tell you that it is a foolish move to misbehave or act unfairly within earshot of “Grandpa.” What more can I say?
I think you have said a great deal actually. It shouldn’t be an age thing. People should have standards of conduct regarding how they treat each other. Goden Rule is coming to mind. Golden Rule is found in all the major religions of the world as a guilding principle. It is a paramount belief amongst the atheists I have known. (most called it something different.)
Remove the age thing. I think you and I probably view things a little differently as far as the sexes go. No radically, but enough that I can say I am probably more liberal about a lot of things than you are or, conversely, you can say that you are more conservative than I am. However, I think that between us, we could find many core values and some pretty solid do’s and don’ts that would match.
I don’t find Ms. Ball’s behavior unacceptable in the least because she was with her husband and in private. I would have accepted significant other in place of a husband even. I find how people talked about her simply beyond the pale and an invasion of privacy. And it was gotcha and gotcha over something that we should not have even had a glimpse into. It was gotcha that should have been considered sacred grounds–that between husband and wife.
Sigh…I sound so old fashioned.
PS My belief in the first amendment is not so strong that I think people should be allowed to be pigs at others expense. I guess the old your rights stop at the end of my nose argument.
O’Reilly used the term Muslim and did not qualify that by prefacing it with the word “extremist”. Now, whether that was intentional, considering he was on The View, or a simple oversight is up to the viewer to determine. They were silly to walk off.
They appear to have been drama queens on their own show. I never watch the view.
I don’t either. They like so many others get caught up with more “gotcha” than issue. I’m interested in what a lot of folks think, I’m not interested in ridicule, endless fingerpointing, righteousness, condescension or generalizations. Pretty much limits my TV talk show viewing and some blogs.
I generally don’t like day time TV. I am probably missing all sorts of good thing.
I do have to catch Glenn Beck for the humor factor…almost daily. He is simply the best at the Them vs Us!
@Moon-howler
“I never watch the view.”
My estimation of you just increased immeasurably….
As for Glenn Beck, I think that its a love/hate thing you have going on with him….You don’t want to believe what he says is true…………….
But….what if he’s right……………
I have to admit that I completely missed this story and had to google it. I had absolutely no idea what you were talking about. However, I have A couple of thoughts:
1) Ms Ball stated that she could not exclude the possibility that the photos were obtained from a social networking site. This tells me that the photos were online and out of her control, which opened the door for something like this to happen.
2) The sanctity of marriage was not a big deal to this woman (and/or her former husband) if these photos were already online. So the photos may not really have been all that private.
I do not know what “conservatives” said about this poor helpless victim. But I am not wholly convinced that she is being honest and forthright.
@marinm Women who actually watch those two and allow themselves to be influenced by the singleminded “view” have no business whining about the thick glass ceiling that is probably hanging right over their heads.
@cargosquid
No, I just don’t take people with that kind of following lightly. He is a major social phoenomena (sort of like Rush used to be except he isn’t as mean-spirited). I also used to listen to Falwell.
If you are going to rail against people it helps to know what they are saying first hand rather than relying on rumor.
@Kelly3406
I saw several speculations from overseas tabloids. I have followed her on TV and looked at the local papers more than I have read a rehash of the tabloids. Others may post pictures of you on the web without your knowledge.
I fail to see how she could be blamed if some low life released pictures of her from a private party. I bet whoever did is not longer considered a friend.
As for sancity of marriage….isn’t that a pretty powerful belief with most conservatives? I didn’t say Ms. Ball believed in it. I don’t know how she feels about marriage. But those who speak to it should at least be respectful. Otherwise they are hypocrites.
@Emma
I have always liked Whoopie Goldberg. I don’t know anyone here who watches the view. If it ends up making a big splash, *I* have pulled the segment from youtube and posted it.
I would listen to Whoopie before I would little Miss Perfect on there.
On the other hand, I don’t care if they walked out or not. Its their show. I didn’t hear what O’Reilly actually said yet. I should probably find it and post it so we aren’t all stabbing around in the dark….making fools of ourselves for commenting on what we think was said. I include myself in the fool remark.
@Moon-howler Who is “little Miss Perfect”? I’ve only endured one episode of the show, and watched video of the “walkout” drama. The program is insufferable.
Emma, Good to know that NOW (California) is ok with the use of the word ‘whore’ to describe woman or politicians in general. That glass ceiling just got a little thicker.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/14/meg-whitman-whore-now_n_763211.html
re NOW
NOW is under no obligation to endorse women over men. I believe they endorse the candidate who creates the best environment for women in the political arena. That candidate might not always be a woman. As for NOW, that is one person who is speaking….and she does not speak for all of NOW any more than Paladino speaks for all Tea Party people. And for the record, I am not a member of NOW nor have I ever been.
I don’t blame Jerry Brown’s people for a supposed off-mic remark any more than I blamed Bush for calling the NYTimes reporter an asshole. He was probably right. It actually made me like Bush a whole lot more. It showed his human side. Stuff happens. Its embarrassing. And then we move on. I feel confident that this isn’t the first time Meg Whitman has been called a whore. After all, she is a successful, wealthy business woman.
The real shame is that one’s enemies think its ok to call any woman a whore. If we take the meaning of whore to mean promiscuous woman, then we have to assume that the opposite gender is a promiscuous male. I think most people clap him on the back and call him a stud. There’s the real inequity.
Elizabeth H is always miss perfect and Barbara wawa is sometimes Miss Perfect.
I have always liked Whoopie as an actress. I don’t care one way or the other about the others.
I have never seen one full show. I just don’t like things like that…with one person talking over the other one. When I realized that was the format of the show, I decided to scratch it off my to-do list. Also, why put EH on there. She always comes across like a moron and the rest gang up on her. It reminds me of putting Alan Colmes on Hannity and Colmes. Colmes is a lousy liberal to start with. She is a lousy conservative. She just comes off sounding like a nitwit everytime she opens her mouth on there.
@marinm I heard the story on the radio this week. It’s amazing what one side can get away with without a major press-hammering. Witness Joe Biden, who described Oama as “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean” and also quipped that you cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent.”
The press’s attitude was one of tolerant amusement–aww, that’s just Joe! If he were a Republican, those would have been macaca moments.
NOW is one of those entities best used as a reverse barometer, like Al Sharpton. If they are for it, the correct place to be is against it. If they are whining, you know something right is happening.
Just wondering, what does NOW have to do with the two sided face of Conservatism?
Guns good, abortion bad……. abstinence education good, comprehenisve sex education bad…………..money spent on death penatly good, money spent on social services bad.
What makes the term Conservative so positive and Liberal so negative? I would say PREVENTION is simply smart not necessarily liberal.
Get my drift!
Joe has paid and paid for that remark. I just heard it referenced this week.
I see my remarks about women you dislike being called whores went unnoticed. Is that ok with conservatives?
Jerry Brown needs to apologize for his staff and move on. Meg Whitman needs to move on.
Again, the obvious is being overlooked. Why is it ever appropriate to refer to a woman as a whore. There is the inequity. See commenbt # 25