There’s been recent discussion about the initial resolution and what it said or didn’t say. So, I thought it would be a good idea to review. Again, this is the initial resolution submitted by John Stirup of the Gainesville District in the Sping of 2007. If had some interesting aspects including allowing citizens to sue the County government for non-enforcement. I always thought this was one of the oddest things ever seen. Who actively encourages people to sue them?

WHEREAS, the Virginia State Code, Section 15-2-1700, states that any locality may provide for the protection of its inhabitants and property and for the preservation of peace and good order therein;

WHEREAS, the Prince William County Board of Supervisors has determined that illegal immigration is causing economic hardship and lawlessness in this County and that illegal immigration may be encouraged by public agencies within the county by failing to verify immigration status as a condition of providing public services.

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Prince William County Board of County Supervisors does hereby amend the Prince William County Code as follows:

A.  All officials, agencies, and personnel of the County shall fully comply with and, to the full extent permitted by law, support the enforcement of federal law prohibiting the entry into, presence or residence in the United States of aliens in violation of federal immigration law.

B.  County Police Officers shall inquire into the citizenship or immigration status of any person detained for a violation of a state law or municipal ordinance, regardless of the person’s national origin, ethnicity, or race where such inquiry does not expand the duration of the detention. In all such cases where a person indicates that he or she is not a citizen or national of the United States, the Police Department shall verify whether of not the person is lawfully present in the United States, pursuant to United States Code Title 8, subsection 1373( c ). If the person is verified to be unlawfully present in the United States, the Police Department shall cooperate with any request by federal immigration authorities to detain the alien or transfer the alien to the custody of the federal government.

C.  Pursuant to United States Code Title 8, sections 1373 and 1644, no official, personnel or agent of the County, including officers and personnel of the Police Department, may be prohibited or in any way restricted from sending, receiving, or maintaining, information regarding the immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any individual, or exchanging such information with any other federal, state or local government entity for the following official purposes:

1.  Determination of eligibility for any federal, state or local public benefit, service or license which is restricted, in whole or in part, to persons who are not United States Citizens or non-qualified aliens, pursuant to Virginia Code Ann. 32.1-325.03; Virginia Code Ann. 63.2 – 503.1; and United States Code Title 8, Section 1621;

2.  Verification of any claim of legal domicile within the County by a person who asserts that he or she is not a citizen, national or legal resident alien of the United States; where legal domicile is required by law or contract;

D.  The Police Department of the County shall as quickly as practicable enter into a cooperative agreement with the United States Department of Homeland Security, pursuant to United States Code Title 8, subsection 1357 (g), to designate specific County law enforcement officers qualified to exercise the enforcement powers of federal immigration officers in the United States; and to establish a protocol for the expedited transfer of verified illegal aliens into federal custody. The Police Department may negotiate the cooperative agreement or participate in its implementation in partnership with other state or local law enforcement agencies.

E. The provisions of this section shall allow for a private right of action by any natural or legal person lawfully domiciled in this County to file for a writ of mandamus to compel any non-cooperating agency to comply with such reporting laws.

124 Thoughts to “Immigration Resolution Review”

  1. /\/\3|)iç 64

    This is a total waste of time, since this is not the final draft. Why not bring up the final draft that was voted on and enacted, let’s review that one.

  2. admin

    I thought we could do a progression.

  3. admin

    The original resolution, its origins, the revisions, are all part of the story. The final version and the 6/8 services that ended up being restricted there’s history there too.

  4. /\/\3|)iç 64

    OK I understand now.

  5. Look at the wording of this. This version is the first, the closest to the FAIR version that GL and HSM pushed through with Stewart and Stirrup. It targets EVERY immigrant that might be undocumented by asking all county employees to check immigration status. Well, who do you think will have their status checked? A white looking person with no accent? You know that’s not the case. This is why the resolution is inherently racist and so are the people who pushed it through. Using the law to remove and intimidate minorities IS racism. That’s why I use the word over and over.

    I really wish I were a lawyer. I’m tired of not being able to do anything about injustice. I’d love to take them up on their offer to sue the county.

  6. “WHEREAS, the Prince William County Board of Supervisors has determined that illegal immigration is causing economic hardship and lawlessness in this County and that illegal immigration may be encouraged by public agencies within the county by failing to verify immigration status as a condition of providing public services.” Oh and I suppose they can SUPPORT their determination by studies and data done BEFORE they decided to pass this thing, huh? Again, we know this isn’t true.

    It’s too late to do it after. There has already been a miscarriage of the democratic process, government accountability, justice, and economic responsibility.

  7. Angry Blackman!

    kgotthardt, I wish you were a lawyer too except for me since you’d lose. Don’t you think if this resolution was racist the lawsuits would have happened by now? Why are appellate courts upholdling laws like this in other states?

    If I’m driving and get pulled over, first thing they ask for is ID, if I have no id what happens next? Why should illegals be treated any differently? Why should they be allowed to steal ID’s, forge documents, etc. when if it were you or I, we’d go to jail and SO SHOULD THEY.

    The BOCS could rescind the resolution but guess what, “ICE would still be involved” and this is worse for illegals than some resolution.

    You make no sense and a voice which cries our for “Amnesty” will not be heard!

  8. maribel

    Today’s D.C. Examiner newspaper on page 14: “Immigration raids at poultry plants lead to 300 arrests”. YOU GO ICE! PWC: Aqui viene La Migra….que se huyen los ilegales! Also, Angry Blackman, don’t waste your energy on Ms. kgotthardt….she is an angry, bitter, illegal alien apologist liberal.

  9. Turn PW Blue

    Let’s not leave out some important parts of the history.

    Stirrup’s resolution was first submitted on 27 June 2007 (which bvbl.net helpfully points out was written with the assistance of the Immigration Reform Law Institute (an off-shoot of FAIR) and the legislative committee of less than 3-month old HSM)).

    A month earlier (24 May 2007), the list-that-I-guess-we-do-not-speak-of-by-name, brought to light a “sanctuary policy” put in place by Chief Deane and the PWCPD. Stirrup’s resolution was proposed in direct response to the PWCPD policy that prohibited officers from asking about residency status. The resolution was initially spun as a direct response to the PWCPD policy.

    The provisions, then, for the writ of mandamus were expressly included so that a county agency (like the PWCPD) would not be able to ignore the resolution.

  10. Angry Blackman!

    Maribel,
    I know exactly what you mean and can read through her agenda.

  11. rebelreggie

    Arlington Center Offers Hope in Hard Times – washingtonpost.com

    ( Now you may understand why Prince Willam County,near Arlington County,has cracked down in illegals,in order to stop the flood)

    In Prince William County, (illegal)immigrant communities are unraveling as foreclosures, a weak economy, a police crackdown and harsh policies to deny services to illegal immigrants kick in. In Herndon, a day labor center became such a lightning rod in the national debate about illegal immigrants that residents elected leaders who shut it down 21 months after it opened.

    (Think your voice & your vote don’t make a difference?)

    In Richmond, lawmakers this session pushed 130 bills, most of which failed, that would make life harder for illegal immigrants. And the record number of deportations across the United States last year, 282,000, was more than double the number from 2001.

    But things are different in Arlington County.

    In Arlington, where officials unanimously approved a resolution last fall welcoming all immigrants, regardless of their status, a day labor center has operated without much fanfare for eight years. And now, even in a budget crunch, officials are asking for mental health counseling for (illegal)immigrant workers.

    (Glad to know no Americans living in this county have need for mental health counseling,aren’t you?)

    And they’re getting it.

    “Things have gotten really bad for day laborers. Many have lost their houses, their places of work. Many are exploited and not paid. And they have no way to make things better,” county mental health counselor Fernando Penaherrera said in Spanish. (Got a county employee that no habla?)

    For the past month, Penaherrera has met every Wednesday with day laborers to talk about stress, anxiety, depression and substance abuse.

    “Alcohol is the easiest answer for many of them,” he said. “Wherever you go, there is a 7-Eleven, and you can buy a six-pack. The situation is serious. Many are losing hope.”

    The request for counseling came from Andres Tobar, executive director of the Shirlington Employment and Education Center, just off Four Mile Run.

    “In the last couple years, we’ve had a more than 50 percent drop in jobs,” he told the County Board at a budget hearing. “Where we might have had 500 jobs a month, now we’re down to 230, maybe 200. We saw able men looking for work and able to meet their needs. Today, we’re finding them scraping and not able to meet the rent.” ( Go. Home.)

    Many have become homeless, he said.

    One recent, dreary day, men in baseball caps, paint-spattered sweat shirts and work boots milled about outside the center. Some waited in the covered shelter outside, where they scanned the streets for any people who might drive by and ask for workers for the day.

    “Work?” the laborers eagerly asked every passerby. “You got work?”

    Inside, men sat around talking or surfing the Internet on one of the center’s two computers, looking for news about El Salvador. Others crowded into the conference room to watch a Spanish movie on television. Many absently fingered the ID cards the center makes for them for $5, showing their names, date of birth, address and work expertise.

    “We need to keep them from getting bored,” Tobar said.

    The men have English-language training, job training classes and other programs. ( here’s an oddball idea-how about job training classes for…..Americans?)With so little work, the days are long. Tobar called a meeting and asked how the workers were faring. They agreed to talk about their lives on the condition that only their first names be used, as many are not in the country legally.

    A man named Ramiro, wearing a blue baseball cap emblazoned with a U.S. flag, handed out his handyman card.

    “There’s no work,” he said in Spanish. The 52-year-old hasn’t worked in two months. He has six children in Bolivia who are all in college. He left home five years ago to make enough money to get them through school. Now he has nothing to send.

    ( you made ’em-ever think about educational costs BEFORE your pants came off?)

    “I wanted a good life for my children. But now, what can I do?” he asked.

    Ramiro is considering returning home, in defeat, if he doesn’t get work soon. But he doesn’t know how he’ll face his family.

    One worker blamed the lack of work on the anti-immigrant mood in the country. “People are afraid to hire you if you don’t have papers,” he said.

    He was quickly interrupted. “It doesn’t matter if you have papers; there isn’t work for anyone,” another said.

    Another worker, clearly drunk at 9:30 in the morning,

    (life can’t be too bad if he has booze funds)was roundly criticized by the others. “If you get the job, you’ll ruin it for the rest of us!” one said.

    “Who would want to take a drunk to their house?” another scolded. “You’ll do a bad job and then [employers] won’t come back.”

    Another worker, Balthazar, 60, left to pick up food at the food bank next door. He explained how he left a municipal government job in Lima, Peru, eight years ago so his son could attend college in the United States.

    ( son could have entered U.S. legally on student visa)

    For a few years, Balthazar worked six or seven days a week to make that happen. Now, he said, he will do anything for work: paint, lay bricks, hang drywall, mow, landscape. Anything. But there isn’t any work. And his son has had to suspend his studies.

    “I don’t know if he can continue,” Balthazar said. It’s something he worries about constantly.

    “Some people are depressed,” he said. “It depends on the person. I want to keep fighting. My father was the kind of person who got up at 4 a.m. to work. I respect that. I work like that.”

    Tobar said he has become increasingly concerned about the mental state of the day laborers as work has dried up. When one worker became so depressed recently that he swallowed rat poison and had to have his stomach pumped and another remarked that there was no point in trying any longer, Tobar said he had to act.

    “You can see it in their faces, the depression,” Tobar said. “I don’t know what could occur with desperate people who are starving. But I do know that desperate people often take desperate measures.”

    This year, Tobar called the county’s Department of Human Services and received help for mental health counseling. He was testifying recently in the hopes of keeping that counseling, as County Board members consider a proposal to cut as much as $1 million in services, including substance abuse and mental health counseling, in Arlington’s annual $925 million budget. Tobar worries that, with positions being cut, the counselors will be stretched and will have less time to come to the center to work with the laborers. The board is scheduled to vote on the final budget on Saturday.

    County Board Chairman J. Walter Tejada (D) was an early supporter of the day labor center, for pragmatic and philosophical reasons.

    “We have a history in Arlington of being a caring, inclusive community that values diversity. And we support people who are here trying to improve the quality of their lives in our region through hard work,” Tejada said. “There are (illegals)people looking for work and employers looking for workers. And if that activity takes place — and it will take place — the government needs to coordinate it so that it happens in some kind of orderly manner, that the needs and demands of work are met.

    “We realize that this is a divisive issue in some places,” he said, “but it does not need to be.”

    Although times are tight, Tejada said, the mental health of day laborers must be addressed to provide help to those who need it and to protect the community at large.

    “Having a substance abuse counselor there is a proactive way of addressing the needs of the population. That’s part of what a community needs to do. We need to take care of our neediest (illegal)residents,” Tejada said. “And ultimately, when people are able to find work, we all benefit.”

    Back at the center, officer manager David Benavides, a former Marine who served in Iraq, spent the morning calling employers who hadn’t paid workers to get them to pay up.

    The workers are friendly with one another, using nicknames such as Potato Face, Dracula, Gloves or Perro de Lengua, “Loose Tongue,” because he gossips so much.

    Benavides said that as times have gotten rough, he’s seen tough workers curled up in a corner crying. Some people borrowed thousands of dollars to pay smugglers to get them into the country. And now that they can’t pay their loans, the smugglers are harassing their families. “That’s really tough for them,” he said.

    A worker who had lost his apartment and could no longer share custody of his children was ecstatic when he got a temporary job, Benavides said. He was showing off, inviting his friends for drinks.

    But he drank so much that he passed out. And his friends stole his money. Now he’s homeless.

    ( if the article writer was aiming for my sympathy,he/she missed by several miles)

    “That’s why we need a substance abuse counselor,” Benavides said. “Going through these times is very tough. But alcohol only makes it worse.”

    (thought all that money was being sent back home to Rosa and his 18 starvin’ babies?)

  12. maribel

    Angry Blackman: An agenda she doth have. I believe the first words Ms. ever uttered were YOU RACIST!

  13. maribel

    Angry Blackman: an agenda she doth have. I believe the very first words Ms k ever uttered were YOU RACIST!

  14. TWINAD

    Maribel,

    If the shoe fits…

  15. “Don’t you think if this resolution was racist the lawsuits would have happened by now?”

    They’re coming.

    I have no agenda. I don’t belong to any political parties. I don’t have anything to apologize for. I don’t run any political organization nor have I ever. I go to church and I dislike hatred. I also closely observe society and people.

    Bitter? Why should I be? Angry at injustice?

    Why SHOULDN’T I be?

  16. maribel

    rebelreggie: It IS a MESS, thanks to all of the enablers and liberal socialist fear mongers who spread lies and misinformation. SHAME on them!

  17. maribel

    k why don’t you support JUSTICE? Injustice?…that’s the typical liberal mantra, everyone is a victim. There are LAWS. It is an injustice to the law abiding to not enforce laws. People that cannot obey laws are LAW BREAKERS and must be brought to JUSTICE; to not prosecute lawbrakers is an INJUSTICE. Who said anything about hatred? Is enforcing the rule of law hate? I THINK NOT!

  18. Censored bybvbl

    Rebelreggie, your article only makes me sympathize with the immigrants. (I have to admire a man who would make such sacrifices to send his children to college and a better life.) You protest too much…makes me think you don’t quite have the work ethic that these immigrants do. And you sound jealous of any advantage they may have. Maybe you should examine your own deficiencies as well as strong points and put your skills to better use.

  19. TWINAD

    Maribel,

    Then I can only assume you condemn your own father FOR BREAKING THE LAW OF THIS LAND BY COMING HERE ILLEGALLY! But no, you seem to support him and think that what he did was right because he was able to adjust his status. But now you don’t want others to have that same opportunity. Your father broke THE LAW as you say, yet you are here because of that…this doesn’t strike you as the least bit hypocritical?!!!!!!!! What kind of person are you?

  20. TWINAD

    Censored,

    Agreed!

  21. /\/\3|)iç 64

    # kgotthardt said on 17 Apr 2008 at 2:21 pm:

    “Don’t you think if this resolution was racist the lawsuits would have happened by now?”

    They’re coming.

    I have no agenda. I don’t belong to any political parties. I don’t have anything to apologize for. I don’t run any political organization nor have I ever. I go to church and I dislike hatred. I also closely observe society and people.

    Bitter? Why should I be? Angry at injustice?

    Why SHOULDN’T I be?

    I really wish I had your fortune telling skill set.

  22. Bring it On

    Maribel is a FAKE. ‘Her’ shoddy translation was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

  23. /\/\3|)iç 64

    # Censored bybvbl said on 17 Apr 2008 at 2:35 pm:

    Rebelreggie, your article only makes me sympathize with the immigrants. (I have to admire a man who would make such sacrifices to send his children to college and a better life.) You protest too much…makes me think you don’t quite have the work ethic that these immigrants do. And you sound jealous of any advantage they may have. Maybe you should examine your own deficiencies as well as strong points and put your skills to better use.

    I do not feel sympathy for them. I am not jealous because I have a good job and make good money. My skill set is sharp already. I am tired of these stories because they pull at the heart strings and emotions get involved. Once we take the emotions out of the equation, the sooner we will be able to get to real solutions.

  24. Censored bybvbl

    maribel said on 17 Apr 2008 at 2:30 pm:
    k why don’t you support JUSTICE? Injustice?…that’s the typical liberal mantra, everyone is a victim. There are LAWS. It is an injustice to the law abiding to not enforce laws. People that cannot obey laws are LAW BREAKERS and must be brought to JUSTICE; to not prosecute lawbrakers is an INJUSTICE. Who said anything about hatred? Is enforcing the rule of law hate? I THINK NOT!

    So, Maribel, are you the crying victim of injustice? Do you wish to take advantage of some program that you feel you are currently being denied?

  25. Censored bybvbl

    Medic, while I’m basically an unemotional person, I don’t think everyone has to be like me. People are entitled to their emotions.

  26. Censored bybvbl

    Bring it On, did she provide a babelfis translation? Ha ha.

  27. Censored bybvbl

    Uh oh. There should be an “f” in there.

  28. maribel

    Regarding my previous post concerning the D.C. examiner article…the arrests wers not only for violating U.S. immigration laws, but also IDENTITY THEFT…..so much for “but they just want to come to this country, work hard and send money home” syndrome. Those that had their ID’s stolen now have to spend thousands of $ and many months to fix what was stolen from them. Who pays for that, the gov’t? Yeah, right.

  29. Moon-howler

    Maribel,

    Your mother is calling you. Go home. We don’t call each other names over here. No one cares what your opinion of KGottardt is.

    You have no valid points. If you did, you wouldn’t be reduced to name calling.

    You are about ready to understand a good old fashioned Amish shunning.

  30. Censored bybvbl

    Well, Maribel, I read my old hometown newspaper today about the raids a few counties away. The local sheriff was quick to point out that identity theft was not a crime perpetuated by just illegal immigrants but also by a variety of opportunists for easy financial gain. Good forged documents can bring up to $20,000.

  31. Censored bybvbl

    Oops, Moon-howler, I just wanted to give Maribel some facts before I gave him/her a good shunning.

  32. TWINAD

    Maribel,

    The vast majority of identity thefts are not perpetuated by “illegals”, but by sophisticated computer hackers…not your average immigrant laborer. And those laborers are using a manuafactured SS#, but not stealing the name, address and credit of Americans. You are spreading false, hysteria inducing lies.

  33. TWINAD

    Bring it on,

    Agreed, she has not answered why her “father” could come here illegally but not be denigrated by her, but the newcomers are to be disdained.

  34. Not Me, Bubba

    “I do not feel sympathy for them. I am not jealous because I have a good job and make good money. My skill set is sharp already. I am tired of these stories because they pull at the heart strings and emotions get involved. Once we take the emotions out of the equation, the sooner we will be able to get to real solutions.”

    Well said, Medic. Well said.

    @ Maribel:

    YOu know this issue isn’t about party affiliation, and if you ahd two brain cells you would know that it wasn’t the “liberals” who have been in charge for the past 8 years leading up to this dilemma. Look to your own sacred elephant in the room and stop pretending that it’s flatulence is the scent of roses. You can thank your own cheap labor conservatives for the illegal influx in the US today. But doing that would force you to re-examine your own shortcomings and juvenile “liberal vs. conservative” mantra. Just turn on Faux Noise, have a Bud and calm down. The adults are talking.

  35. Moon-howler

    Twindad,

    He must have been SPECIAL and didn’t have to go by the rules. Or, EVERYone but Maribel.

  36. Marie

    The resolution adopted July 10, 2007, opened the door to the approval of passively sanctioned discrimination and bigotry. The assumptions stated in the resolution promote fear and distrust. It underminds and frustrates the unity and good intentions we strive to build in our communities and neighborhoods. Underlying assumptions make it appear the responsibility for lawlessness and economic hardship is on one segment of our community, and it subtly encourages a lack of tolerance and respect for people identified with that part of our population.

    Shame on all of you who point that finger toward the population this resolution was intended to devastate.

  37. LuckyDuck

    I’m with Moonhowler….no name calling, only opinions and discussions. That’s the difference from the other side.

  38. Bring it On

    LuckyDuck Returns!

  39. /\/\3|)iç 64

    # Marie said on 17 Apr 2008 at 3:47 pm:

    The resolution adopted July 10, 2007, opened the door to the approval of passively sanctioned discrimination and bigotry. The assumptions stated in the resolution promote fear and distrust. It underminds and frustrates the unity and good intentions we strive to build in our communities and neighborhoods. Underlying assumptions make it appear the responsibility for lawlessness and economic hardship is on one segment of our community, and it subtly encourages a lack of tolerance and respect for people identified with that part of our population.

    Shame on all of you who point that finger toward the population this resolution was intended to devastate.

    Ohhh boy, here we go again. I feel like the little boy with his fingers in all the holes in the dike!! I am just abut out of fingers.

    # Marie said on 17 Apr 2008 at 3:47 pm:

    The resolution adopted July 10, 2007, opened the door to the approval of passively sanctioned discrimination and bigotry. The assumptions stated in the resolution promote fear and distrust. It underminds and frustrates the unity and good intentions we strive to build in our communities and neighborhoods.

    I guess it is ok with you that 10-20 people live in the house next to you? This is good intentions towards building good neighborhoods? Not to mention the fair share of property taxes not being paid.

    Underlying assumptions make it appear the responsibility for lawlessness and economic hardship is on one segment of our community, and it subtly encourages a lack of tolerance and respect for people identified with that part of our population.

    No it doesn’t. It points the finger at the ILLEGAL alien population. My mom always said, if the shoe fits wear it. If you are here legally, you have no worries. If you are here ILLEGALLY, you better be worried.

    Shame on all of you who point that finger toward the population this resolution was intended to devastate.

    We are not wanting to devastate LEGAL citizens or anyone else for that fact. We want the law to be followed. WHy is that so hard to understand?

    Why shame on us for wanting ILLEGAL aliens out of PWC. Take your PMS down the road sister. It is getting old here. BTW PMS stands for Poor Me Syndrome, a Medic original.

  40. maribel

    WOW, what a stir….the queen bees are really buzzing!

  41. TWINAD

    The fact of the matter is that a lot of LEGAL residents have “illegal” family members. Therefore, these “legal” residents no longer want to be here either. And you keep saying you have no problem with “legal” residents…but don’t you realize that a good many of these now legal residents were once illegal but were able to adjust their status? An option that now no longer exists? It’s curious that these “problems” have only come to a head on the last few years. Well, that is because prior to April of 2001, “illegals” could and were able to change their status to legal.

  42. maribel

    Medic 64…..YOU ARE RIGHT ON! PMS is running wild…must be the mating call of the spotted owl, or the cucaracha gigante that was brought over by the illegals. These people “shun” those that disagree with them….they have a terrible time accepting the inconvenient truth….they are clouded by emotionalism and hysteria…..

  43. maribel

    If the “legal” residents have “illegal” family members living with them and no longer want to be here, what’s preventing them from returning to their own countries? All of Central America is beautiful with manny varied landscapes…why are they not will to return to work and FIX their problems?

  44. /\/\3|)iç 64

    # TWINAD said on 17 Apr 2008 at 4:45 pm:

    The fact of the matter is that a lot of LEGAL residents have “illegal” family members. Therefore, these “legal” residents no longer want to be here either. And you keep saying you have no problem with “legal” residents…but don’t you realize that a good many of these now legal residents were once illegal but were able to adjust their status? An option that now no longer exists? It’s curious that these “problems” have only come to a head on the last few years. Well, that is because prior to April of 2001, “illegals” could and were able to change their status to legal.

    I am familiar with your situation and until there is comprehensive immigration reform, it will have to be as it is. My solution took into account your situation as well and provided those who paid taxes and had been in the US for more than 5 years.

  45. KENneth Reynolds

    The resolution was made up as they went along and as a policy document it is crap!! The lawsuits are coming…HOWRY is standing by waiting for a good one!!!

  46. Elena

    Marie said on 17 Apr 2008 at 3:47 pm:

    I, along with many others, agree with your summary Marie.

    /\/\3|)iç 64 said on 17 Apr 2008 at 4:39 pm:

    “I guess it is ok with you that 10-20 people live in the house next to you? This is good intentions towards building good neighborhoods? Not to mention the fair share of property taxes not being paid.”

    First of all Medic,as I am sure you are well aware, the majority of immigrants throughout history, those who came in large waves, all lived in crowded conditions. Let me refresh your memory of an article that Poor Richard posted:

    1. Poor Richard said on 12 Mar 2008 at 11:34 am:

    “…a large majority of them can neither read or write, do not
    understand our language and have natural tendencies to live
    crowded among their own race and to continue their customs brought
    with them. Some of the philanthropists and educated fools are
    worrying how to deal with this problem when the only sensible
    way to deal with this problem is to pass an immigration law that
    will keep them out of the country entirely, for we have no use
    for them, and they are a menace to America and American institutions
    … over a million have arrived in the past year and still
    comes the miserable horde, and the politician sells not only
    his own birthright but the peace and health of his countrymen
    for a few ballots … the nature of this filth is too low and
    vile to exploit in print … American for Americans …
    The time has come when the American people must call a halt
    to the ….. Italians.”
    Baltimore News (Nov. 7, 1906)

    The reality Medic, is that no one is denying that there are issues, I just wonder, aren’t these issues that can be dealt with in a sensible manner. I have asked you in the past, how is this immigration influx different, and you have answered it is because of welfare, health care, public education. I will agree that those benefits exist today, but I would add that there are many credible findings that suggest most immigrants(documented and undocumented) not only pay their way, but pay their way and and them some. Are certain localities more effected than others? Well yes, we are one of them, but that is why the Federal government should play a role to help equalize the communities who are most effected.

    No one here is PMS’ing, Marie makes credible points, as do you too(sometimes 🙂 ). I am not hysterical and neither are most people who come to this blog. I think Marible is having an unbecoming effect on you Medic.

    Maribel,

    Such a beautiful name for such a hateful person. KG is passionate, but she also has her ideas about how do deal with immigration. Have you visited her site? I find your childish simpleminded attack, “she is an angry, bitter, illegal alien apologist liberal” towards Katherine about a 5 year olds intellectual speed. When all else fails, and you can’t debate the points, resort to kindergaden behavior. Wait, let me take analogy to a 5 year old behaviors back, my 6 year old has better manners than that, I’ll say my 3 year old instead.

  47. Elena

    notGregLetiecq said on 16 Apr 2008 at 5:46 pm:

    I just saw this post and HAD to comment! First of all, thank you for the history lesson regarding the Alamo, very interesting! Second, very interestiny hypothesis regarding the identity of Second Alamo!

    SA,
    So, ARE you Tom Kopko or Corey Stewart? Inquiring minds want to know 🙂

  48. Emma

    Right on, /\/\3|)iç 64!

    I love how the Wash Post today focused on the fact that the PWC immigration initiative will cost $520,000 more than projected, then talks about how money will have to be taken away from road improvements, etc. How much road improvement can one purchase for $520,000? My commute sucks, it will continue to suck for a long time, and I don’t think this little bit of cash is going to change it in the near future. Lawbreakers are being caught, and no one who is here legally has anything to worry about.

    Yes, I know that “legal” citizens of every race overcrowd houses, cheat on taxes and drive without licenses, but why should our communities take on even more than we can already manage in the form of undocumented persons? I see nothing racist in protecting our borders and, when that fails, deporting those who enter illegally. Tolerate lawbreakers, and there is no reason in the world why everyone else should have to follow the rules, either. I believe that is called anarchy.

  49. /\/\3|)iç 64

    Elena,

    You obviously didn’t see that PMS stands for Poor Me Syndrome. Yes there are too many emotions and heart tugging stories that invoke the Poor Me Syndrome of the ILLEGAL aliens. There are SOME that pay their fair share, not most. In 2006 1.4 million people used ITIN when filing taxes. (http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/42020.html) That is a far cry from the 10-20 million ILLEGAL aliens in the country. Even if it was 8 million in 2006, that is still not many that filed taxes. So the statement that most pay is not correct.

    Maribel has no affect on me. I am my own person, she is just a bit harsher with her words than I am..She will soften the edges as the Grey hair comes in 😉

  50. /\/\3|)iç 64

    # Emma said on 17 Apr 2008 at 5:55 pm:

    Right on, /\/\3|)iç 64!

    I love how the Wash Post today focused on the fact that the PWC immigration initiative will cost $520,000 more than projected, then talks about how money will have to be taken away from road improvements, etc. How much road improvement can one purchase for $520,000? My commute sucks, it will continue to suck for a long time, and I don’t think this little bit of cash is going to change it in the near future. Lawbreakers are being caught, and no one who is here legally has anything to worry about.

    Yes, I know that “legal” citizens of every race overcrowd houses, cheat on taxes and drive without licenses, but why should our communities take on even more than we can already manage in the form of undocumented persons? I see nothing racist in protecting our borders and, when that fails, deporting those who enter illegally. Tolerate lawbreakers, and there is no reason in the world why everyone else should have to follow the rules, either. I believe that is called anarchy.

    I have said many times, we have to take the emotion out of the equation if we are going to find a workable solution. My commute sucks as well and 520k won’t even pay for the road sign people to let traffic by for a project.

    I think the resolution is about ready to pay for itself in the lower costs associated with education in PWC. We shall see. It is going to be expensive right off the bat, but it will even out to maintenance soon enough. To scrap the resolution before it has even been in effect for a year is stupid to say the least. All of the time and money spent on it will be wasted. Let it stand for 2 years. After 2 years if it is still costing the same amount, I will be the first to stand up and say we need to look for an alternative, but until something has had a chance to work, it is not very fiscally responsible to gut it before it has a chance to work.

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