There’s been recent discussion about the initial resolution and what it said or didn’t say. So, I thought it would be a good idea to review. Again, this is the initial resolution submitted by John Stirup of the Gainesville District in the Sping of 2007. If had some interesting aspects including allowing citizens to sue the County government for non-enforcement. I always thought this was one of the oddest things ever seen. Who actively encourages people to sue them?
WHEREAS, the Virginia State Code, Section 15-2-1700, states that any locality may provide for the protection of its inhabitants and property and for the preservation of peace and good order therein;
WHEREAS, the Prince William County Board of Supervisors has determined that illegal immigration is causing economic hardship and lawlessness in this County and that illegal immigration may be encouraged by public agencies within the county by failing to verify immigration status as a condition of providing public services.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Prince William County Board of County Supervisors does hereby amend the Prince William County Code as follows:
A. All officials, agencies, and personnel of the County shall fully comply with and, to the full extent permitted by law, support the enforcement of federal law prohibiting the entry into, presence or residence in the United States of aliens in violation of federal immigration law.
B. County Police Officers shall inquire into the citizenship or immigration status of any person detained for a violation of a state law or municipal ordinance, regardless of the person’s national origin, ethnicity, or race where such inquiry does not expand the duration of the detention. In all such cases where a person indicates that he or she is not a citizen or national of the United States, the Police Department shall verify whether of not the person is lawfully present in the United States, pursuant to United States Code Title 8, subsection 1373( c ). If the person is verified to be unlawfully present in the United States, the Police Department shall cooperate with any request by federal immigration authorities to detain the alien or transfer the alien to the custody of the federal government.
C. Pursuant to United States Code Title 8, sections 1373 and 1644, no official, personnel or agent of the County, including officers and personnel of the Police Department, may be prohibited or in any way restricted from sending, receiving, or maintaining, information regarding the immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any individual, or exchanging such information with any other federal, state or local government entity for the following official purposes:
1. Determination of eligibility for any federal, state or local public benefit, service or license which is restricted, in whole or in part, to persons who are not United States Citizens or non-qualified aliens, pursuant to Virginia Code Ann. 32.1-325.03; Virginia Code Ann. 63.2 – 503.1; and United States Code Title 8, Section 1621;
2. Verification of any claim of legal domicile within the County by a person who asserts that he or she is not a citizen, national or legal resident alien of the United States; where legal domicile is required by law or contract;
D. The Police Department of the County shall as quickly as practicable enter into a cooperative agreement with the United States Department of Homeland Security, pursuant to United States Code Title 8, subsection 1357 (g), to designate specific County law enforcement officers qualified to exercise the enforcement powers of federal immigration officers in the United States; and to establish a protocol for the expedited transfer of verified illegal aliens into federal custody. The Police Department may negotiate the cooperative agreement or participate in its implementation in partnership with other state or local law enforcement agencies.
E. The provisions of this section shall allow for a private right of action by any natural or legal person lawfully domiciled in this County to file for a writ of mandamus to compel any non-cooperating agency to comply with such reporting laws.
/\/\3|)iç 64,
I wish I had your ENERGY! I am impressed as I am STILL reading to catch up.
By the way, I see you were asked on the other blog if you had a poodle, I THINK it maybe in reference to the movie Silence of the Lambs. Didn’t that girl in the pit have a poodle? ( where the bad guys says it puts the lotion in the basket) Sorry off topic…my SELF diagnosed A.D.D. must be kicking in…lol
“Injustice?…that’s the typical liberal mantra” Ehhhhhhhh SHADDUP (insert Bug’s Bunny Voice Here).
This ain’t about being liberal. This is about my spiritual, moral, and personal convictions. It’s about the law….FEDERAL law and civil right. It’s about human rights. It’s about wanting to see a better world for everyone and that means developing a win/win plan….which means we do something reasonable about overcrowding and all the other annoyances people complain about.
Thanks, everyone else, for putting Maribel in her place. I could care less what her personal agenda is or what she thinks of me. She doesn’t even know me. Then again, neither does GL and he decided to threaten me. Go figure. Ignorance abounds within these groups.
And if Corey Stewart really is reading this, then listen up…..neither your political ambitions nor your prejudice has any place in our county government. Be a man and resign before you are recalled. I’m not a fortune teller. It’s not hard to smell what’s blowing in the wind.
redawn,
It has been so long that I don’t remember for sure. I think it is come to think of it.
kg…its not ONLY about federal law. Its about local and state laws that must be enacted and enforced when the fed sits on its butt. If the fed does not enforce immigration law, is that a reason as to not take action at the local level? Ignorance is when people adopt the mindset that “its the fed’s responsibility” and do nothing to fix an escalating problem such as illegal immigration. The Resolution IS working, 278G IS working. This all began at the local and has had a positive effect on combating illegal immigration. Its shameful and disgusting for anyone to be labeled a “racist” for enforcing the law. Its the ignorant that use ethnicity, sexism and class warfare in stating their case. The Resolution is NOT about ANY of these. The Resolution applies EQUALLY to ALL that are in this county ILLEGALLY. To deny this fact is to be ignorant.
What-eva, Maribel. Go call Corey and John and Greg and tell them how wonderful they are, then. Have a nice life.
http://luxuriouschoices.blogspot.com/search/label/Immigration
All I can tell is that this world and community would be much better if all the people in it had the same attitudes and mindsets as Kgotthardt, Elena, Alanna, Marie, MoonHowler, Censored among others. The nastiness that is spouted by so many is just so gross. If PWC only had the likes of Maribel and Angry in it, I’d be running to a third world country myself!
And Maribel…for your last sentence, you STILL have not responded as to how you became such a hypocrite when your father came here illegally. You keep avoiding answering that question. How do you possibly try to even justify yourself and your hideous, misguided hatred?
They say MUSIC is the UNIVERSAL language.
This is EVERYONE’S HOMETOWN.
This song speaks of ALL sides. The before generation to the new generation. The lessons learned, to learn and NOT be repeated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIqYn_1IdZU
Hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20
maribel on 17 Apr 2008 at 7:09 pm: “its not ONLY about federal law. Its about local and state laws that must be enacted and enforced when the fed sits on its butt… [rest deleted for brevity]
Well said and spot on!
es_la_ley, how are a mishmash of local and state laws going to work? How can a person travelling between cities or states have a reasonable expectation that the laws will be the same?
es_la_ley,
I have to agree with Censored bybvbl. We have SEEN the tragedies of a death between such borders of Manassas Park or The City of Manassas. One can be arrested and let go in one jurisdiction only to be let out to commit murder in the next.
I.E.
http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/08/15/another-grisly-murder/
AND YES!!!!! I WAS ans still remain HYSTERICAL to this day….either with tears or laughter, I choose the latter. MY POINT, as is Censored bybvbl.
how do you stop it?
maribel said on 17 Apr 2008 at 1:30 pm:
“Today’s D.C. Examiner newspaper on page 14: “Immigration raids at poultry plants lead to 300 arrests”. YOU GO ICE! PWC: Aqui viene La Migra….que se huyen los ilegales!”
So Maribel, today you’re writing in Spanish:
“PWC: Here comes ICE…that the illegals get the hell out of here!”
And on the Open Thread April 15 10:00 p.m. you wrote in bad Spanish:
“I also think it is unfair for ICE to sneak up on people and detain them. There should be a law against this madness. Los pobres inmigrantes ilegales sufren demasiado. No importa que ellos han quebrado la ley. Yo estoy enojado con la migra, creo que son sin verguenzas. Viva Zapata, viva Pancho Villa!”
Translation:
“The poor illegal immigrants suffer too much. It doesn’t matter that they have broken the law. I’m angry with ICE, I think they are shameless. Long live Zapata, long live Pancho Villa!”
Someone was obviously impersonating you, right?
Several of us are waiting for your answer to the Open Thread 16 Apr 2008 at 8:48 pm.
Firedancer,
Here is some back ground music as we await the reply. 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We8P_Ww27hY
LOVE THE CLIP, redawn!!! Thanks so much!!!
I love Elvis. My favorite song is All Shook Up, and I enjoyed the various versions there.
Twinad..why are YOU so bitter and angry. In only two posts you use the words “condemn, nastiness, hatred, hideous, hypocrite”. SHAMEFUL! First of all, you may feel the need to justify yourself to others, I certainly do not. I speak my mind and if touchy, feely people can’t take it….too bad. SECONDLY, who ever said anything about condemnation? I would NEVER condemn my father for what he did. What he did was wrong, against the law and if he had been caught, he would have been deported. He knew that and took his chances. When he arrived to the U.S. he knew what he had to do. Within a month, through sheer determination, perseverance, and will power he located an elderly lady in NJ that would sponsor him (now he is “legal”) who was to become his “United Estates mother”. Some of you have insinuated that he “had connections” or was “lucky”. You are SO wrong. He fled Cuba at the age of 23, a 5th grade education and not knowing a word of English. The rest is history. No, you people, no “special this or that” for my father. THIRDLY, I don’t condemn illegal aliens. What they do is WRONG and must be held accountable for their actions. They take their chances by entering the U.S. ILLEGALY. If they are caught, they must be deported. What part of LAW enforcement don’t you understand? And Twinad, cool down and lay off the insults. There appears to be an air of INtolerance on this blog.
Hey, “Bailarina de Fuego”, don’t hold your breath.
Geez, Maribel, how come you are filled with such bile?
So you’re not going to explain why someone was impersonating you?
Ok, how about explaining what you mean by “United States mother”. Sounds like a special this and that to me.
I know Cubans tend to be Republicans, but no Cuban-American I know would ever talk like you. But then again, I don’t associate with your particular political persuasion.
But muchacha, you’re scary.
If you’re even a muchacha.
Firedancer,
I think Maribel means:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQpPe_xvihA
and got you all shook up 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqsX7xQWRoU
( cheesy but funny:) )
Ok Maribel or whoever you are. You are attempting to hijack this thread. It is time for you to go sit on those naughty hands and just read a little. Or go over to BVBL and talk to the Patriot. You and he will get along just fine.
You will find that seeking out people who think like you do is a lot easier on your blood pressure. Perhaps you didn’t know about the OTHER. (GUFFFFFAAAWWWWW) You will thank me for the referral.
To all I think we tried to send a message to Maribel and it got returned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J3tdAuBJ3k
Thanks you two. Too much venom for me.
Okay ONE more. I have to go to bed and do it all over again. I hope WE all wake up positive 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzC1xWX2dIA
/\/\3|)iç 64 said on 17 Apr 2008 at 6:05 pm:
I think the resolution is about ready to pay for itself in the lower costs associated with education in PWC. We shall see. It is going to be expensive right off the bat, but it will even out to maintenance soon enough. To scrap the resolution before it has even been in effect for a year is stupid to say the least. All of the time and money spent on it will be wasted. Let it stand for 2 years. After 2 years if it is still costing the same amount, I will be the first to stand up and say we need to look for an alternative, but until something has had a chance to work, it is not very fiscally responsible to gut it before it has a chance to work.
And then eventually the voters will have their say. If it’s a disaster, I would think Corey Stewart and co. will pay the political price, since he was elected on an anti-illegal-immigration platform. The voters spoke.
Turn PW Blue @1:52
‘A month earlier (24 May 2007), the list-that-I-guess-we-do-not-speak-of-by-name, brought to light a “sanctuary policy” put in place by Chief Deane and the PWCPD. Stirrup’s resolution was proposed in direct response to the PWCPD policy that prohibited officers from asking about residency status. The resolution was initially spun as a direct response to the PWCPD policy.’
Has anyone actually seen a santuary policy or is this another one of those old wives’ tales made up on bvbl?
And what’s with all the meanness here?
“I may not agree with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it.”– Voltaire
Firedancer, digame: tu sabes lo que dijo Maribel a Firedancer?
The Needs of our Police Department:
I certainly trust our police department to conduct themselves in a professional manner. However, I do not trust all those who our cops must deal with to be lawabiding citizens and agents of truth. I vote for cameras.
I am not even sure what is meant now by ‘the resolution.’ It has been very watered down. I do not feel the jail portion of the 287(g) program is racist. I believe it is an important part of community safety. It is certainly far less expensive than the 287(g) police department component of the agreement with the federal government and creates far less exposure to potential lawsuits. If we are going to ask our police department to go out there and do a job, then we need to give them the tools to do the job with. If Chief Deane says they need cameras, then they need cameras.
I seem to recall an incident back last winter or early spring where a certain activist was hot-dogging with illegal immigrants. This activist was sure quick to point a finger at one of the police officers. And now tell me again why we might need cameras???
Moon-howler,
Agree on all counts!
They need cameras. No doubt about it. But we shouldn’t have to pay for them.
Firedancer said on 17 Apr 2008 at 8:45 pm:
maribel said on 17 Apr 2008 at 1:30 pm:
“Today’s D.C. Examiner newspaper on page 14: “Immigration raids at poultry plants lead to 300 arrests”. YOU GO ICE! PWC: Aqui viene La Migra….que se huyen los ilegales!”
So Maribel, today you’re writing in Spanish:
“PWC: Here comes ICE…that the illegals get the hell out of here!”
And on the Open Thread April 15 10:00 p.m. you wrote in bad Spanish:
“I also think it is unfair for ICE to sneak up on people and detain them. There should be a law against this madness. Los pobres inmigrantes ilegales sufren demasiado. No importa que ellos han quebrado la ley. Yo estoy enojado con la migra, creo que son sin verguenzas. Viva Zapata, viva Pancho Villa!”
Translation:
“The poor illegal immigrants suffer too much. It doesn’t matter that they have broken the law. I’m angry with ICE, I think they are shameless. Long live Zapata, long live Pancho Villa!”
Someone was obviously impersonating you, right?
Several of us are waiting for your answer to the Open Thread 16 Apr 2008 at 8:48 pm.
ITS A SHAME THAT ICE HAS TO SUCK UP TO THE POLITICIANS WHEN THERE ARE SO MANY CRIMINALS OUT THERE…THEY GO BEAT ON POUTRY WORKERS…SAD
Emma said on 17 Apr 2008 at 10:23 pm:
/\/\3|)iç 64 said on 17 Apr 2008 at 6:05 pm:
I think the resolution is about ready to pay for itself in the lower costs associated with education in PWC. We shall see. It is going to be expensive right off the bat, but it will even out to maintenance soon enough. To scrap the resolution before it has even been in effect for a year is stupid to say the least. All of the time and money spent on it will be wasted. Let it stand for 2 years. After 2 years if it is still costing the same amount, I will be the first to stand up and say we need to look for an alternative, but until something has had a chance to work, it is not very fiscally responsible to gut it before it has a chance to work.
And then eventually the voters will have their say. If it’s a disaster, I would think Corey Stewart and co. will pay the political price, since he was elected on an anti-illegal-immigration platform. The voters spoke.
SOME OF US THOUGHT THE RESOLUTOIN WAS STUPID!!! TRACE WHAT HAPPENED AND ITS EASY TO SEE COREY AND STIRRUP ET AL DIDNT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING……AND MADE IT ALL UP AS THEY WENT ALONG. THERE WAS A RECENT BLIP IN ESOL REGISTRATIONS…..THE SCHOOL SYSTEM SAID .DONT READ ANYTHING INTO IT UNIL MORE NUMBERS COME IN. DID THE RESOLUTION CHASE PEOPLE OUT OR DID PEOPLE SIMPLY LEAVE BECAUSE THE JOB MARKET DRIED UP? LOOK WHAT YOU GUYS GOT FOR YOUR MONEY..I WONDER HOW MANY SENIOR ILLEGALS WE CHASED OUT OF SENOIR CENTERS….=NOT A DAMN ONE I BET….AND THE POLICE…WELL FIRST THEY ARREST THE PERSON FOR ANOTHER CRIME AND THEN ASK TGHEM FOR PAPERS……NICE GOING GUYS….SUCH A PIECE OF CRAP!!!
If we have the police component of the 287g program, then we need to give the police the tools they need. It seems wiser to me to have our police do police work, not have to act like faux ICE agents.
If we put enough money into implementing the 287 g jail component so those trained for the program weren’t working 60 hours a week, then do we need our police 287 g program? I say no.
The police component of the 287g program is overkill and was a railroad job because people didn’t understand it well enough to protest it.
The 287g jail component is needed and many other jurisdictions are signing up with this program.
I firmly believe our supervisors need to be encouraged to scrap the police component and put more money into the jail component.
As for paying for the cameras, K, there is no free lunch. If the cop part of the 287g is kept (and I hope it is NOT) then the cameras must be funded by the county.
If we fund the full time operation of the 287(G) program in the jail, AND the goal is to identify and deal with CRIMINAL aliens, than no, the police do not need the resoulution – the system will grab those criminals who are here illegally. What or rather who will not be identified or apprehended are those who are illegal and are stopped for certain traffic violations or other police encounters in which their immigration status is checked. It depends on what you want the resolution to do.
Yes, Moonhowler, cameras in the vehicles were and have been necessary for a long time. In this area however (immigration enforcement) they are even more necessary as it will save the county in the long run.
My point exactly Moon. There is no free lunch here. We need cameras but we can’t afford them and the BOCS didn’t plan for them when they implemented this “resolution.”
Admin, can you post a thread specifically about 387g, what it entails, and how it relates to the resolution? I’m hearing it’s not worth the money and we can’t do it more cheaply.
I mean 287g.
Hey, Kenneth R., there is no need to SHOUT. Did you vote in the last election? It’s sad when there is a poor turnout, then people gripe incessantly about their elected officials. All of those who sat on their butts on election day becaause they didn’t like the weather, didn’t feel like leaving their house, didn’t think the election was important enough–I could go on–got exactly what they deserved for choosing not to participate. They let a small majority decide for them.
Medic said: “I think the resolution is about ready to pay for itself in the lower costs associated with education in PWC.”
After spending many years in government, I never think that I can tell how much is “saved.” Frankly, I don’t think that we will ever be able to use this as a guage. Bureaucrats have a penchant for not reducing budgets, rather they take the savings and apply it elsewhere. That is because there is a universal feeling that the money is rightfully theirs and not the taxpayers. We may never know if money was actually saved.
Just because we’ve already invested money in the resolution is no reason to continue to throw good money after bad. The practical place for the 287g program is at the ADC. Police cameras appear to be standard equipment in many places in the country. I have no problem funding them. Beyond that, I think we’re wasting money that could be invested in Neigborhood Services, community outreach, and routine police patrols.
It looks like the poison is spreading. See Groups Unite Against Illegal Immigration in the Examiner. The other must not be getting his fair share of attention these days.
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1389342
According to the Examiner, we still are not up to snuff at the jail. We do not have enough trained personnel to carry the 287 (g). The Honorable suggests that maybe next year we can add money to the budget.
http://www.examiner.com/a-1347719~Some_foreign_born_inmates_avoid_residency_checks_in_Pr__William_jail.html
Corey Stewart: Let’s get it right. Let’s have the jail functioning at top efficiency. Let’s put our fiscal resources into the JAIL where it will do the most good.
Pouring resources into the jail rather than forming a faux ICE department is the most cost effiicient way to fly. We don’t need to be hunting down ‘illegals’ (cringe) here in Prince William County.
We have a professional police department. Let’s not ask them to become something they are not.
clarification: Corey Stewart: change colon to coma. He did not say that, I did.
maribel said on 17 Apr 2008 at 10:34 pm:
Firedancer, digame: tu sabes lo que dijo Maribel a Firedancer?
Translation:
“Firedancer, tell me: do you know what Maribel said to Firedancer?”
Sorry, but I don’t know which statement you are referring to. And why are you using the third person? Is it to emphasize that Maribel and Firedancer are not our real names?
Exactly, that is why we can vote them out if things are not better. If we ditch the resolution now, it has not ad a chance to work yet. How will we know? Let it simmer for 2 years, then if it is not doing what it is suppose to do, I will be the first to march to the supervisors and tell them to rescind it.
This is true, so if the money is “rearranged” to other programs we are on the positive because they didn’t raise taxes to use the same money they had for other programs.
I agree we shouldn’t be throwing good money after bad, but by the same token, we have to give the money a chance to work. After a sufficient chance, and things are not looking better, then we stand up and complain. The resolution hasn’t even been in effect for 2 months yet and people want to abandon it. Things take time, the ILLEGAL alien issue didn’t happen over night and the correction of it will not either. Everyone just settle down, take a deep breath and let things TRY to work. Instead of complaining about it not working, how about trying to see what you can do to help it work so the money isn’t “wasted”!!
Again, well said, Medic. If we toss out the resolution now, how could we even measure its fiscal impact when it hasn’t had any time to work?
I’ll be standing and marching right beside you in 2 years if things are shown to be an abyssmal failure and fiscal black hole.
Moon-howler–
My understanding is that there was, indeed, a PWCPD policy memo that directed officers not to ask about residency status.
Turn PW Blue,
You know, I have never talked to anyone who has actually seen this memo. It might be interesting to get our hands on a copy. I have always heard this but never actually seen it…sort of an urban legend.
It would make sense not to ask if there is nothing you can do about it anyay.
How can something be deemed a failure in just 2 short months? Things take time and I am glad to hear you will be with me If and when it fails, but until then I want to see what I can do as Joe Citizen to make sure it does not fail. If people are going to sand bag this resolution before it has had a chance to work, then you are not looking for solutions. Remember, not all solutions will fit neatly into everyone’s little world. This takes time and it should be given time to work OR fail.
It isn’t poison Moon, it is people getting tired of paying for those who just suckle the hind teat and offer nothing in return but cheap slave labor. They are draining their resources and they are going to nip it in the bud (doing my best Barney impression) before it gets out of hand. Calling it poison is really no different than calling others racist. It is name calling either way.
Emma said on 18 Apr 2008 at 8:22 am:
Hey, Kenneth R., there is no need to SHOUT. Did you vote in the last election? It’s sad when there is a poor turnout, then people gripe incessantly about their elected officials. All of those who sat on their butts on election day becaause they didn’t like the weather, didn’t feel like leaving their house, didn’t think the election was important enough–I could go on–got exactly what they deserved for choosing not to participate. They let a small majority decide for them.
SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS EMMA BU I AM TECH CHALLENGED AND THIS IS THE ONLY WAY I CAN GET A RESPONSE…YES, I VOTED ON ELECTON DAY, AND I WAS A POLLL WATCHER AN ALSO WROTE LOTS OF LETTERS…
GL post a scan of just the top portion as part of this posting.
HSM has a PDF of the response from Chief Deane to their FOIA request for the General Order at http://www.helpsavemanassas.org/files/docs/pwcpd_foia_20070625.pdf.
Reading through the actual General Order, calling it a “sanctuary policy” is certainly taking some liberties with the English language. In fact, the guidelines in General Order 26.05 seem to be pretty reasonable:
Reading this, it makes one wonder whether those who pushed the resolution were really just looking for the right moment to make their move and needed something that they could use as a catalyst for the community. Implying that the Chief of Police had created a “sanctuary” policy would certainly get people stirred up.
Some people never learn. I have basically stopped responding to him since he doesn’t want to follow the etiquette. No one shouts at me and should expect a response. I would rather read all lower case letters than to have all caps in a post.