The Board will have only have a 2:oopm session tomorrow. The agenda for the meeting appears short, the most important item on the agenda is after the closed doors session which is the start of the budget mark-up. It’s not too late to share your thoughts on the Fiscal 09 Budget.
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Why did that change???????? Okay, this is really irritating. Are they TRYING to discourage people from coming? I’ve asked this before but I’m asking it again.
This is BULLSHIT! Look at what they had on the original calendar:
Board of County Supervisors Evening Meeting
Location: Board Chamber, McCoart Building, Woodbridge
Start: 4/22/2008 7:30:00 PM
End: 4/22/2008 10:00:00 PM
Contact: Office of Executive Management 703-792-6600
Description:
The Prince William Board of County Supervisors will meet in the Board Chamber of the James J. McCoart Administration Building, 1 County Complex Court in Woodbridge. The meeting agenda is available to the public 24 hours a day in a variety of ways:
Access the County government’s Web site: http://www.pwcgov.org/bocs.
Sign up for Prince William County’s eNotifications service online at http://www.pwcgov.org/eservices/enotifications/. This service sends electronic notices, alerts and information to subscribed users. Anyone who has an email account can use this system. It’s a free and convenient way to keep informed about news, events and information in Prince William County.
Call PWC-INFO [(703) 792-4636] and request message number 125.
So they cancel the various hearings on the budget. NOW they cancel an additional Citizen’s Time the week before the budget it to be approved????? Where is GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILIY IN THIS COUNTY???????
My emails to His Highness, Mr. Stewart and Prince Covington:
To: “Stewart, Corey A.”
Cc: “Covington, W. S. Wally”
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: One Hearing is Not Enough
> The original calendar on your website which I accessed today shows there
> will be a meeting tomorrow evening. However, the agenda posted on the
> website shows only a daytime meeting. I would like to believe that the
> evening agenda simply has not been uploaded yet. Please let me know if I
> am correct. Thank you.
>
> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
> http://www.luxuriouschoices.net
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Stewart, Corey A.”
> To: “Katherine”
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:32 PM
> Subject: RE: One Hearing is Not Enough
>
>
> Katherine,
>
> Thank you for your e-mail, the Agenda is scheduled months in advance.
> Please know that all citizens can come to any meeting and speak at
> Citizens Time on any issue.
>
> –Corey
>
>
> Corey A. Stewart
> Chairman
> Prince William Board of County Supervisors
> 1 County Complex Court
> Prince William, VA 22192
> (703) 792-4640 – Telephone/(703) 792-4637 – Fax
> [email protected]
> http://www.co.prince-william.va.us
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Katherine [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 9:08 PM
> To: Caddigan, Maureen S.; Covington, W. S. Wally; Nohe, Marty E.;
> Stirrup, John T.; Jenkins, John D.; Stewart, Corey A.; Barg, Hilda M.;
> May, Michael C.; Principi, Frank J.
> Subject: One Hearing is Not Enough
>
> Dear Supervisors:
>
> On such an important issue as the budget, we deserve and request more
> than
> one opportunity to voice our diverse opinions during citizen time.
>
> One of the jobs of the BOCS is to listen to constituents and consider
> their
> opinions when making decisions that affect our county. The BOCS has not
> had
> a good record of eliciting balanced, complete dialogue to accomplish
> this.
>
> Please take the opportunity to do so now by scheduling additional
> citizen
> time.
It makes one think the change was intentional so there would not be much opposition. I know they have been bombarded with e-mails in opposition to the 287(g) resolution and the cost to fund it. Let’s face it most people work and would not be able to attend an afternoon meeting but I think there will be a fair turnout of speakers.
The budget has to reflect our values and commitments as a community.
We cannot afford to spend 6 million or more on implementing a new, experimental program to crack down on illegal immigrants.
We support targeting the truly criminal legal immigrant already arrested for a crime.
We do NOT support the broader “crackdown” detaining people suspected of being illegal, the probable cause part of the crackdown. The broader crackdown on immigrants is a clear case of casting the net too widely.
I don’t want my money going to an experiment on how a local government can address a federal problem especially not this year when we are facing a budget deficit.
We don’t have the infrastructure to implement and sustain such a program.
And ICE admits to overcommitting and they are not reliable partners for this experiment.
And it’s causing too many unanticipated costs such as the police cameras and the extra time in the detention centers because ICE cannot pick them up in a timely manner.
On top of the financial cost, there is the emotional cost of the division in the community over this controversial program and the fear among our Hispanic residents.
I do not want you to even think about cutting programs in schools, fire and rescue and police. They need every penny.
I support putting some resources into improving overcrowded jails because that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. There is triple-bunking going on at the detention centers. We are in violation of federal law here. We’ve already been used twice for this so please address this problem as soon as possible.
I ask you to be responsible and stop over-reaching.
The County is facing a significant budget deficit and should be more prudent in their financing.
Prince William County teachers are among the lowest paid in the Northern Virginia Region shouldn’t we use our money to pay them better?
Privatized Legal Fund set-up by Chairman Stewart has not only collected $540 for defending the county against lawsuits resulting from the passage of the ‘Immigration Resolution’.
Implementing the Resolution would lead to Racial Profiling which will lead to costly legislation.
“The budget challenge is balancing an acceptable level of community progress with the harsh fiscal reality,”
The costs for implementing this resolution have not been sufficiently justified.
Legal residents have left the county because of the current sentiment towards Hispanics. It’s certain to hurt our tax base in terms of property tax collected, business taxes, and loss in real estate values.
On top of those losses there will further lawsuits with mounting legal expenses to defend this resolution
The privatized legal defense fund set-up by Mr. Stewart has only collected $940. Why should taxpayers be expected to pay for this resolution, when it’s obvious that private citizens who supported the resolution haven’t contributed any money to the cause?
All of us are going to be have increases in our local taxes over the next years. The economy seems to be suffering locally and nationally.
Property values are going down and many homes are vacant. We have less residents contributing towards our tax base and we will all be forced to pay more just to maintain our current level of services. It is not prudent to spend our money at this time; rather it should be saved for true fiscal crisis.
This money should be used to help the county residents who most need it not to pay for this resolution.
It is a disgrace that our county has a waiting list for services to the disabled, the elderly, and the chronically ill; yet the BOCS wants to use this money to forward an agenda based on the bias and discrimination of the few.
It is a shame that this money could be considered for use in this manner when we need more police and fire professionals and more schools.
It is fiscally irresponsible to use these reserves at a time when the county is facing a budget deficit.
We depend on the BOCS to make intelligent, reasonable decisions for the good of our communities and EVERYONE who lives in them. This is not the best use of our money during our current economic condition.
There were 4 public hearing times for the budget already. What else do you want? It is not the supervisors fault you didn’t go.
April 7 (7:30) Budget Public Hearing November 25 (2:00 & 7:30*)
April 8 (2:00 & 7:30)
If I’m understanding correctly, what she’s saying is there is a discrepancy between the calendar and the agenda. Let me double check.
kgotthardt is correct.
Here’s the calendar –
http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/007435.pdf
and here’s the agenda –
http://www.pwcgov.org/documents/bocs/agendas/currentagenda.pdf
I don’t know if the meeting runs until 7:30, will they offer Citizens’ Time again? I doubt it.
Mary,
Excellent points, thanks for posting them!
Hey Anon….the point is they used to offer multiple citizen times in multiple locations throughout the county. They CUT those. Then I get an email from Mr. Stewart that we can talk about any issue any time…..and I go to the website where it looks like they have cancelled yet another opportunity.
Remember it was Mr. Stewart who decided to use our money to invite the county to talk immigration. When he saw the crowds, he wanted to limit citizen testimony to one minute! He ignored the thousand+ people outside.
People work. They can’t always get to meetings. A truly democratic government means we have the opportunity to participate, not get jerked around by power-hungry people who are collecting their paychecks from US! We voted these people in. We can get them REMOVED as well. It’s time we do it.
Kgotthardt,
what is your freaking problem? panties in a bunch? that time of month? you need to relax. there is not a conspiracy behind every door Your blood pressure must be through the roof.
So what’s the deal. Can we go at 7:30 PM and speak at Citizens’ Time or does it have to be 2:00 PM?
Has anyone called?
Is there a reason that the article in the Post today has not been mentioned on this board?
Give us a link, PW Resident.
2:00pm that’s it.
Okay, I’ve found the “I’m so glad every house in my neighborhood will lose value as fast as possible for as long as possible while housing markets in surrounding counties recover” newspaper article.
I agree these two ladies had some neighborhood issues to deal with. A better solution would have been to start a Home Owners’ Association. Importing the anti-immigrant agenda of a DC lobbying firm was unfair to those of us who DO have Home Owners’ Associations, because our houses are dropping in value too, our local economy is failing too, our schools will be under-funded too, our firemen will be under-funded too, our libraries will be closed on weekends too.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/20/AR2008042002136.html
It is an article with a different point of view which in fairness (if that is the intent of this board), should have been posted.
Thanks for the verification, Admin. Anyone else here think that’s one more nail in the BOCS coffin?
Another interesting one…..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/20/AR2008042002135.html?hpid=moreheadlines
Why Here, that isn’t the point of my post. My point was the “holier than the other page” posts, and yet when a negative resolution article is in the Washpo, it is IMMEDIATELY posted, but I waited all day to see if this one was. I really expected it to be posted but it wasn’t. This isn’t anit-BVBL, it is just anti.
I had hoped that people running this board and others wanting to discuss the issues humanely would just drop the rhetoric but it is all about winning, isn’t it?
Why didn’t you post it earlier if you knew about it? Maybe you were just the first to see it.
If this were a legitimate place, it would have been highlighted on the opening page, wouldn’t it Admin?
Hey Elvis….go shake something up and move on down the road in your Blue Suede Shoes. My panties and PMS are just fine, thank you. It’s this COUNTY that needs an underwear change.
Come on, KG. Other negative articles are immediately posted on the front, are they not?
Stop sounding like I am the only one looking at the Washington Post.
I waited until now to give the admins an opportunity and I think I went well beyond the rational time.
BTW there are probably not conspiracies behind every door, but there are enough a-holes behind each one to fill an entire BOCS chamber. Unfortunately, you can’t do a FOIA request just under the “a-hole” category. The county’s network would explode.
Resident, I really don’t know. I just know I didn’t go to WP until you said something. I don’t think everyone here has time to peruse everything all the time. Admin is pretty busy in general. I just think if you see an interesting article, well post it for goodness sakes! Otherwise, how can we discuss it?
if you are talking to me, how about letting me know???
Forming HOAs in older neighborhoods is almost impossible. If I am not mistaken, it takes 100% of the homeowners voting yes to form an HOA. That is not going to happen in Westgate or Sudley.
In fairness. Those ladies have done a great deal with neighborhood services and zoning to clean up the neighborhood. I have seen some of the homeowner messes that they have been responsible for getting cleaned up. My hat is off to them. While I might not have like some of the rhetoric used in the article, I would have to walk a mile in both ladies’ shoes, in their neighborhoods, before I criticize their efforts.
KG, but other things have been posted in the meantime. That is why I waited. But it is obvious that articles from the other point of view are not welcome here, and this board is a sham as well.
We need a discussion board that doesn’t just care about winning their own point of view.
If you can’t see this, I will just continue to hope.
I called you “resident.” Isn’t that letting you know?
I hope you don’t mean about the “a-hole” thing because I reserve that term for certain political figures, not for residents : )
“We need a discussion board that doesn’t just care about winning their own point of view.
If you can’t see this, I will just continue to hope.”
I absolutely DO understand. I’m just trying to suggest why Amin might or might not have posted the article, that’s all. Admin, why don’t you tell us? That would make it easier : )
In any event, I agree we need more discussion. This is exactly why I am furious with the BOCS for cancelling yet ANOTHER Citizen’s Time! How can you discuss if you aren’t given time to discuss?
KG, and I am supposed to understand that “a-hole’ didn’t refer to me? read your post again in relation to the post immediately before yours!
Sorry….the “a-hole” thing was back at Elvis:
“elvis said on 21 Apr 2008 at 7:29 pm:
Kgotthardt,
what is your freaking problem? panties in a bunch? that time of month? you need to relax. there is not a conspiracy behind every door Your blood pressure must be through the roof.”
Incidentally, I have very good blood pressure. I have little trust or confidence in our government, however.
KG, I will tell you my opinion about citizen’s time. It is not a time to discuss anything until you have the political will and strength to accomplish something. Alienating the other side with talk of racism is no way to accomplish anything. There is no man or woman that will talk about anything if one (not you since I am sure you don’t say this) calls them a racist! If anyone really listens, they can find a commom ground but we have taken winning to a new level. No longer is winning just a happy time–it is complete annihilation at any level. When we were younger, winning meant just smiling and playing again. But it is not acceptable anymore, it is just destroy and who cares whether we play again.
That is what people should be upset about!
“Alienating the other side with talk of racism is no way to accomplish anything.” PW, I agree we need to come to a consensus. BUT….I can’t ignore blatant racism when I see it and I AM seeing it. This policy is inherently racist, as are some of the people who promote it. I have written on this extensively, have every bit of proof that supports the definition, and will not repeat myself here.
After every example, every definition, every fear evoked, I have to ask those involved, “What part of RACIST do you not understand?”
And I know damn well the Civil Rights people would agree with me. If they didn’t, the SPLC wouldn’t be labeling FAIR a “hate group.”
Referring to “Panties in a bunch” is not appropriate in a serious discussion venue.
PWC Resident, I understand what you’re going for but in all due respect, that’s a pretty desperate argument. You wrote “negative articles are immediately posted on the front, are they not?” Then you accused our Admin of bias.
The answer is NOT!
The “Bad Reputation Bad for Business Post” popped up here at 8 PM on the day the article came out. Last I checked, the Washington Post is a morning paper. And the on-line version is usually available the night before.
Our Admin is a moderate Republican, devoted to G.W. Bush and John McCain. She has four kids and a husband to take care of. So rather than accusing her of bias, why don’t you pitch in and help us? This blog would benefit a lot from more frequent posts.
This is much more of a community forum, not dominated by a stay-at-home full-time partisan like Gospel Greg. That’s what’s good about it.
A PW County Resident said on 21 Apr 2008 at 9:11 pm:
“Is there a reason that the article in the Post today has not been mentioned on this board?”
So sorry PW County Resident. It is not the intent of this blog to insult anyone or only post one point of view. I think admin is quite busy today and maybe did not see the article. We are equal opportunity. If you noticed nothing was posted today except for a reminder about the BOCS meeting tomorrow.
I guess more of us will have to step up to the plate and help admin with posting.
KG, then your definition of racist is different than mine. And I did march in the 60’s with Dr. King and tended to people during the Resurrection City.
Are there people who have racist ideas who supported this resolution? I have to agree.
Are there people who do not have racist ideas who supported this resolution? Absolutely!
But to brand everyone who supported this resolution as racist is just wrong! And although it isn’t “racist”, it is so similar to racism as it diminishes the individual and brands all with the same opinion with the same negative brush strokes. It is called steriotyping, which is the same as racism but broader since it isn’t just based on race.
I happen to be from a group that was not well liked in the early part of this century when they came to the US. My grandparents no doubt experienced prejudice when they came here. But they came in accordance to the laws in effect at the time and they eventually became citizens. I have told my late father than I did not appreciate not learning the native tongue of my ancestors as a child and I will learn that tongue.
So please do not label me a “racist” because I want people to obey the laws set up by my representatives, who I can vote out of office every so often if I do not agree with them.
So you see, I am a person who does not care where a person comes from, what race he/she is, what religious faith they are most comfortablw with. I frankly think that people here regardless of their heritage adds to my being and that of my family. But I expect them to obey the laws that have been put into place as I do.
Please call me a racist if that is what you really believe. If you call me a racist, I will have not use for your attitude.
PW County Resident, I mentioned the Washington Post article on the “Lab Mice” thread this morning around 10 am, and there are several comments in response. I think the suggestion that if you see something, just post about it is a good one.
Moon-howler, I just think neighbors can go about approaching problems in the neighborhood in a better way. In the City, when a zoning person talked to our neighborhood watch, he said what he’d seen pretty much is when he went out to a homeowner or renter and asked them to do something about the code violation, they were embarrassed because they didn’t know and complied. And he questioned, why not just get to know your neighbors, and then in a friendly way, mention the problem and try to resolve it? Or better yet, say “it looks like you’re busy, would you like some help with that” or “I’m going to the landfill on Saturday, can I take that old TV / tire / whatever with me?”
Folks, I am so sorry if I misunderstood. So far, you have all reminded me how busy the admin is. Is that really what you believe?
I make no accusation but I pointed out how curious it was. Some would suggest that there is a sensitivity when so many come to the defense of the admin.
I don’t care what political party the admin is part of–does it matter? It doesn’t to me and it doesn’t explain anything.
By the way, I asked numerous times if we could have a special section on this blog to talk about solutions. A really positive subject.
Others piped in and wanted it so people could look at it when they first signed on.
The answer was that it was buried into “aftermath”.
Make your own conclusion, folks.
Cindy, thank you for your suggestion. BUT, unless it is a separate blog item, it is lost.
Omigod, it is now on the front page. And the writeup just puts the spin on it that the Admin wants. It then provides the link. Seems to be handled a bit differently from other articles posted on here.
Come on, folks. Please defend this approach. I would like to hear it.
By the way, I came to this blog because I thought it might be different than the other one. But it is just the mirror image.
KGottHardT at 9:56
Define “racism”.
For that matter since it is a popular “hate control” weapon that can backfire, define “racist”.
Does racist mean opposing “illegal aliens”? Does racist mean demanding a society follow existing law? Does racist mean identfying yourself with a specific group, based on ethnic group, gender, religion, or racial group and asking for special laws and priviliges that others of the same but opposite “group” profiles do not get. Does racist mean, self-identifying and self-segregating yourself with an ethnic, gender, racial, or religious group and claiming that you deserve special consideration more than others not of your own kind. That your “group” is above the law, does not need to follow the law, does not like others that do not want “illegal aliens” in our neighborhoods? Does racism mean, identifying yourself with a special interest group, or legal law center or not-for-profit organization whose charter it is to define and make laws that are targeted to help only certain groups of people based on their race, religion, gender, or ethnic group? Does racism mean that these special interest groups who self-identify, self-segregate and self declare political power to be better than others based on their race, gender, religion, or ethnic group be more moral than others? Does racist mean that there is a belief in “diversity” or “one of each” concepts that demand a numbers “balance” based on Group rights, numbers by race, religion, gender, and tthnic group rather than skill, performance, ability, Test scores and other measures of individual proficiency or suitability for a competitive opportunity? Does racism mean a belief in “Group rights”, instead of individual rights? I think the definitions some of you believe in are all screwed up based on social engineering concepts that advocate there are priviliged (minority) group rights, and those of you who keep these diversity concepts and ethnic group privilige concepts are entirely ignoring the concept that rights are only given to individuals, blind to what race, religion, gender or ethnic group they belong to. “illegal alien” is not based on any gender, religious, racial or ethnic group or group rights concept. It is based only on a definition of “illegal” applied to each individual who breaks our nation’s laws, and people who defy and evade the police force entrusted and obligated to this community to enforce it. Just bcause you feel sorry for someone, does not give you or them a right to be here “illegally” or to conduct illegal acts, nor does it make any one who wants the law enforced a “racist” or lacking in moral character, or moral compass. The greater moral compass is compassion and sympathy for all those “legal” poor affected and undermined by the “illegals” using up all the resources and causing even more poverty, crime and lawlessness. Wanting to prevent that chaos is the “greater moral compass” which can be done without even mentioning gender, religious, racial and ethnic group focused “laws”. Laws and people who support Group rights, and who claim the moral compass to do so, and promote “diversity are breaking the US supreme court ruling that “Equal opportunity is guaranteed, but not equal outcomes”. That one concept makes a selection of “one of each” numbers affect the individials who are less qualified but select due to diversity over other more qualified individuals, “majority group identity” victims who are denied this opportunity, because of “one of each” enforcement concepts and illegal policy concepts drawn along gender, religious, racial and ethnic group lines. Unless you redefine “racism”, being against “illegal” immigration is not based on any of the legal concepts I mentioned above, and exists only in the confused minds of people who think in terms of “group rights” and “minority underdogs” rather than “individual rights”.
PW county resident,
Admin is doing the best she can! I don’t think it’s as easy as just put a permanent thread. You don’t like it, go start your own blog and see how time consuming it is just to keep the regular threads going.
I do not believe that people who have concerns about immigration are all racist. However, I do believe that the rhetoric regarding it has become unacceptable. Somewhere, it became acceptable to start pointing out that hispanics are the cause of all that is wrong with immigration, that if only we could seal our border, we would have no more “illegals”, because of course they are all from Mexico or thereabouts. That the addition of their labor force is of no consequence to our country and that we don’t need them. This is a complicated issue, and there is no simple black or white solution. People behave as though “illegal” immigration is some new phenomenum, it isn’t. I tell the story all the time of my great aunt being smuggled in through Ellis Island in a suitcase because she was ill at the time. The family was terrified of being seperated. So, I guess, being that I live in a glass house, I won’t be the one throwing the stones.
Why are people protective of Admin? Because she is working her a$$ off as a mom, activist, and blog queen. The thread is up, now please, stop whining!
Elena, I read about you in the newspaper and I don’t doubt your good intentions. I have a great deal of respect for you and the Admin. I would hope that you would share this. I think you should also believe that the rhetoric is on both sides and I am sorry that you have not seen fit to discuss that.
I do no believe that hispanics are wrong with immigration. I hope that my children and theirs will benefit from the diversity that this brings us.
But all you have done is address the fact that anti-illegal immigration activists are the only ones presenting things in black and white. I contend that by branding all opposed to a point of view as racist is also “black and white.”
But the bottom line is that no one gains credibility if they are so strident in their thinking that they need to attack the other side, except with real arguments.
You mention your great aunt. Well, many people came through Ellis Island and they did it in stages if people were not well enough to travel. Not many hid in suitcases. My own family did it in stages as well.
So, now I am branded as a whiner? Is that really what you mean? I am whining because I have noticed a tilt in direction? I am whining because the opening page says because “Here it is folks, the most recent Washington Post article that a couple of posters have been clamoring about!” And it was posted after I raised a question about it.
Try again, Elena. Go back and look at the introduction of the subject on the opening page and look a couple days ago when there was a negative “anti-illegal” article.
I am glad our Admin is working these three jobs you mention. I respect her for it but please do not excuse coloring a subject with just being busy. It demeans us all.
PW Resident,
I branded you a whiner because this is a volunteer job, so Admin does the best she can. There is a life beyond this blog, beyond this black page. Sorry I was so quick to jump, there are many threads that go up sometime after a poster has suggested it. Not because it is a slight to the importance of the request, but simply because it may have been missed or that life is just way to busy at the moment to address it with a clear, well thought out commentary. Or maybe your kid is throwing up and needs your attention more than the people on this blog.
People here are free to discuss, uncensored, their feeling and ideas regarding immigration and its impact.
Michael, I am too tired to go into a diatribe, but immigration restrictions were first created to halt the undesirables from emmigrating to the U.S. The KKK was involved in the early 1920’s and helped pass, The Immigration Act of 1924. If we are going to talk historical fact, let’s make sure to keep it factual. http://ehistory.osu.edu/osu/mmh/clash/Imm_KKK/Immigration%20Pages/Documents/guardingthegates.htm
Racism and Racists in Prince William Area:
http://luxuriouschoices.blogspot.com/2008/04/racism-in-prince-william-area.html