Here it is folks, the most recent Washington Post article that a couple of posters have been clamoring about!
What struck me about this article was that it sounds like a small group of citizens actively dealt with neighborhood issues. What I am wondering is this….was it the resolution or their dedicated committment to their neighborhood that fixed the most egregious problems? Is it a success that now many hispanics have left, were they “illegal” or simply too scared to stay in PWC? Could these neighborhood issues have been dealt with through better means than HSM? Could we have formed a community/government task force to promote positive solutions instead of the immigration resolution which has proved to be so divisive? It sounds like there was an opportunity that was missed, and instead we have the serious repercussions of double the foreclosure rate of surrounding counties and businesses, once thriving, now struggling under the threat of bankruptcy.
Firedancer,
Cultural subversion is not about being xenophobic, or afraid of cultural infusion. Culture, when it is entertainment or artistic or recreational does add vitality and interesting differences to the community. However there is a type of cultural subversion that is extremely destructive to a nation’s well being, and that is the problem of “factional” subversion, political division along cultural and ethnic group lines, language separatism that is intentional, arrogant, and self-segregating in nature in order to create a separatist ethnic group unity against another political element also perceived to exist along cultural, ethnic group or national lines. The need to defend against cultural subversion, which is destructive and replaces one national cultural and national identity with another is the reason we need to fight wars overseas and internally if necessary to preserve our national cultural identity and national ideology. To undermine and destroy this national culture is to be a supporter of those “factions” that are culturally subversive and intend to destroy it, invade it, or make it their own. Why in the world do you think we fought communism in the Soviet Union, or Iraq, or Iran, or Serbia, or Korea, or Japan, or Germany, or China? Cultural subversion is the primary means used to take over a nation politically and then physically with revolt, militarism, and invasion. The need to protect the nation from this possibility is the primary reason a nation has borders, has laws that need to be enforced to limit growth infusion from other nations, and the primary reason a nation has immigration law, borders, and a need to control cultural infusion growth rate. When the growth of external cultural and political ideology exceeds the simultaneous decline of national identity, national culture (i.e American ideology) and unity in a nation, the end result in history is fractionalization of a nation into ethnic, racial and religious group “pieces”. These peices are usually in conflict, the neighborhoods impoversished, and the law non-existant, except the law of retribution. Our own civil war progressed along these cultural subversion lines. “Cultural” in this sense (not the harmless recreational and entertainment sense) is both unifying, and destructive when used to gain political control over communitiy leaders and community law, and community resources. If you do not understand the difference between recreational culture infusion (harmless and beneficial), and racial, ethnic group seperatism and subversion (destructive and fracturing) you don’t understand history and national decay and decline.
For a nation to remain healthy is has to have a borber, it has to have regulated growth and immigration law to protect its sovereignity. Where we see this threat in the rest of the world, we intervene. This time however we are ignoring our own backyard. I would not call that XENOPHOBIC. Only a naive person would make that mistake in the identification of the behavior of friendly factions and destructive factions when it comes to identifying community threats and national threats. The real internal threat right now are the “illegal” aliens in our communities. That must be dealt with by just and aggressive law enforcement.
I have lived here for years and I am learning about people being parts of organizations that I have never heard of before. I guess I just try to get along with my neighbors and time has passed me by.
A PW County Resident said on 22 Apr 2008 at 9:54 pm:
YOU are doing the right thing…funny how that happens. I did the same thing to, like a SMACK on the head…a WAKE up…..somehow you find yourself asking, a WAKE up!
ANYWAY, I Hope to talk to you more. I was going to leave this clip with you out of FUN/HUMOR on another thread as you await moon-howler’s response ( I have not caught up enough to say if she has mistaken you for someone else or not, nut I know her and can’t imagine her not getting upset for NO reason)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYrUQItmW4s
Good Lord, Michael! I haven’t seen you since the “good old days” (ha) on the other place, and I’m wondering the same thing as there….what the heck are you like in person? Are you a non-stop talker, or do you just like to write?
Let’s see if I can succintly respond. I am definitely not a talker. You said, “….language separatism that is intentional, arrogant, and self-segregating in nature in order to create a separatist ethnic group unity against another political element also perceived to exist along cultural, ethnic group or national lines.” I say that is YOUR perception of immigrants who you perceive as not wanting to adapt to our culture. But assimilation is inevitable. The second generation speaks mostly English, and feels more comfortable in American culture. The third generation may understand the first language but barely speaks it, and has completely assimilated into American culture.
A healthy community honors peoples’ cultural backgrounds, rather than wipes it out.
I have a short attention span, so shorter commentaries work better with me.
redawn–If you know her (I did not know she was a her), please ask her to reply to me. I really was taken aback by her comments. I hope this board doesn’t just “talk a good game”. I found her remarks to be venonmous frankly.
I actually went over to the other board to see if it was just me. I saw the same kind of venom there too…hmmm?
Why has no one come to my defense when I was blindsided? Getting pretty disgusted actually.
A PW County Resident said on 22 Apr 2008 at 10:27 pm:
I just sent email. Like I said, I have NOT cuaght up in days( as people can see that I have NOT commented)so I don’t know what the exchange is all about, BUT as YOU are hanging in there, I am here to help with miscomunication or whatever?!!??
Email sent 🙂 KEEP on keeping on, even if you get nasty comments or whatever it may be! 🙂
What a self-indulgent, extravagant, over articulate, convoluted, prodigal, and sadly, for the most part void of any glimmer of substance that last post of Michael’s was. I am well versed in history, sociology, politics, philosophy, US immigration law, and then some, and I have read this post over twice and still find myself saying “what the ….?”
Michael wins the award for taking the maximum amount of historical and cultural issues and events completely out of context, single-handedly and extremely obtusely attempting to address the basis of going to war, touching on the US civil war, culture, Iraq, political ideology, all in some way apparently relating to “cultural subversion” etc. etc. blah, blah, blah, into one dreadful blog post and then has the audacity to accuse people of naivety!
I am all about taking this to another level of debate but please, lets not defy logic and throw thoughtful, well constructed use of the english language out the window. I mean, I lost all hope of a true intellectual challenge when I read, “The need to protect the nation from this possibility is the primary reason a nation has borders, has laws that need to be enforced to limit growth infusion from other nations, and the primary reason a nation has immigration law, borders, and a need to control cultural infusion growth rate.”
What verbal diarrhea I have been subjected this evening. My word. I feel rather faint.
And please accept my apologies fellow readers as this is generally a civil forum, but my intellect has been egregiously offended.
discussion happening now regarding police enforcement in budget. 10:41 p.m.
http://www.policymattersohio.org/media/DR_Study_Foreclosures_Have_Widespread_Financial_Impact_2005_0719.htm
“Collateral Damage: The Municipal Impact of Today’s Mortgage Foreclosure Boom,”
authored by William Agpar, senior scholar and Mark Duda, research fellow at the Joint
Center for Housing Studies at Harvard University, concluded that the foreclosure of a
single family home – especially one that leaves the home vacant and unsecured can
generate direct municipal costs in excess of $30,000 per property.
Typical expenses include loss of tax revenue, costs associated with managing the
foreclosure process, building inspections, increased policing, increased fire department
activity (due to arson and/or vandalism), demolition costs and increased demand for social
service programs.
“Left unchecked, the nationwide municipal cost of foreclosures could easily top the $1
billion mark – money that is annually being diverted from meeting other pressing urban
needs,” Agpar stated.
Valley Girl, I have to tell you that one of the funniest posts I have ever read was your exchange on bvbl with Patriot about getting to class on time….if you’re the same Valley Girl. It cracked me up and kept me chuckling for days. It was probably three months ago…..
Thank you, Redawn.
Valley Girl, sorry. I did not read Michael’s post because it was confusing me.
PW County Resident- to feel that Michael’s post is confusing is a healthy confirmation that your sense of reason is intact. Bravo!
Firedancer – I have found that a sense of humor is essential in this and I am honored that you appreciate mine!
At a later date I will treAt you to a recap of one of the funniest blog interactions eveR…
this blog should be called “pwcmoonbats.net”
“but people don’t have the luxury of requesting that anyone be “left out of the article.” Of course they could have asked, Resident, and when WAPO didn’t do it, they could post comments as themselves and tell the world they want no affiliation with GL. But it doesn’t sound like they wanted to do that. They could also ask for a retraction. I know if someone lumped me in with a group I disapproved of, I’d be the first to let the world know that wasn’t true.
Elivs=GL. “Go back to the shadows,” Elvis. BVBL.
“The real internal threat right now are the “illegal” aliens in our communities.” No, the internal threat is our not knowing who these people are and a refusal to give contributing members of our society the “papers” to be here. Read my reaction to your post, Michael, on the other thread. And I admit, your lengthy posting was kind of confusing. It sounds like some more academic papers I’ve read where I, too, have said, “HUH?” I’m not suggesting we sound like idiots (and you do not) but….translation please?
BTW, the lady who spoke about the newspapers and Lou Dobbs yesterday left me with a HUGE “huh”? I have NO idea what she was getting at.
What a self-indulgent, extravagant, over articulate, convoluted, prodigal, and sadly, for the most part void of any glimmer of substance that last post of Michael’s was. I am well versed in history, sociology, politics, philosophy, US immigration law, and then some, and I have read this post over twice and still find myself saying “what the ….?”
“Michael wins the award for taking the maximum amount of historical and cultural issues and events completely out of context, single-handedly and extremely obtusely attempting to address the basis of going to war, touching on the US civil war, culture, Iraq, political ideology, all in some way apparently relating to “cultural subversion” etc. etc. blah, blah, blah, into one dreadful blog post and then has the audacity to accuse people of naivety! ”
I’ll second that, Valley Girl. Neo-con spooge ad nausieum. I especially love the reference to fighting other people overseas to “save” our culture, while in the next breath he claims our biggest danger is cultural subversion at home. Contradict much?
I’ll share with you in your nausea and offense. By brain hurts after reading such…nonsense (to put it politely).
You read it?
TW Blue – She saw things as you stated and decided she did not need HSM nor wish to continue to associate with HSM – it is not necssary for what she is accomplishing. Now here is a tremendous public service going long unnoticed!!!!
HSM came along and picked up on her efforts and used them for themselves/himself.
Yes, she is no longer a member and that is a great thing for PWC.
Juturna, will there be a follow-up story that highlights this information? The ladies need to come out and get the recognition they deserve (leave out being happy over empty neighborhoods).
Censored bybvbl,
I sure didn’t.
Michael, you were a bit wordy in this one. I enjoyed your previous posting more–discussin the real issues and policy. This latest one comes off as,let’s say, a bunch of shoveling the you-know-what. : ) I think you suffocated a few people here!
I too am curious as to why Ms. Pannell left HSM. I haven’t seen her on bvbl in a long time, either, but I don’t read it very carefully anymore. She was right up there, dishing it out with the rest of them…
Willoughby said on 22 Apr 2008 at 7:30 pm:
Chris did work hard, but she allowed herself to be sucked in by Greg, who clearly has his own agenda that she was not aware of. It is a shame that instead of John S helping form a long term task force to liason with citizens and neighborhood services, he chose the divisive path. What is really sad, and Turn PW has already pointed it out, is that the perfect storm did occur. But now, she and her neighbors, and actually, all of us, are left with the repercussions. Lost commercial revenue, lost real estate taxes, a damaged county image, friends divided, and a budget item that all of us will pay for with each forclosed home(30,000 dollars per home).
Medic, I think you are in a quandry. You see, if you propose the resolution has had no impact, then you must admit it has been a waste of money. But, if you do agree, that the exodus of people was due, in some large part to the resolution, then you must therefore agree the resolution is at fault for our extreme financial duress. Which is it?
Willoughby said on 22 Apr 2008 at 7:30 pm:
Dearest Emma, how is Mr. Knightley?
I have no idea who you are, but I think we shall be great friends–Marianne has quite forgiven you :). It took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about. Awesome!!!
Michael,
If what you spewed from the keyboard nonstop for 30 minutes (like a man wracked by involuntary spasmodic vomiting convulsions) were true…then that would mean that the illegals were geniuses who had just discovered how to defeat the mightiest country on earth with a weapon of mass destruction the world cannot defeat: ANCHOR BABIES!!!
Wouldn’t we want such powerful geniuses to stay and teach us their black arts?!?
Michael said on 22 Apr 2008 at 9:44 pm:
To undermine and destroy this national culture is to be a supporter of those “factions” that are culturally subversive and intend to destroy it, invade it, or make it their own. Why in the world do you think we fought communism in the Soviet Union, or Iraq, or Iran, or Serbia, or Korea, or Japan, or Germany, or China? Cultural subversion is the primary means used to take over a nation politically and then physically with revolt, militarism, and invasion.
What the he**? You are overwhelming with your convoluted, stream-of-consciousness, illogical, apples-and-oranges screed. Scariest of all, you’re making “Mein Kampf” sound almost reasonable. One gets the idea you’ve been holding this in for a long time….
Firedancer, a healthy community honors the entertainment, recreational, and artistic form of culture. It does not honer the subversive and destructive form that takes the shape of political subversion along gender, religious, racial and ethnic group lines.
This subversion si what causes war in other countries afound the world. Our nation is not immune to the separatist, self-segregating, politically active effrots of culturally subversive cultures. Whould it help you understand if I mentioned why “9-11” was a culturally subversive event. THe people commiting this act came from inside our borders pretending to be like us, but not like us in their intent. These culturally subversive acts are in multiple forms in our communities, all with no real intention of “eventual” assimulation. Yes the children do eventually blend, but only if the parents let them go to public schools. In other parts of the world, it is the parents that cause the subversive destruction, and preservation of Group Rights concepts with no intent to honor individual civil rights. When they do not allow their children to attend public school, as has happened in many other countries, these cultural subversive ideoligies can and do go on for decades and generations of militant conflict, hatred, discrimmination and avarice toward all other ethnic groups, religions and races.
If you do not see this going on in this nation you are blind as a bat.
Emma you don’t know what you are talking about, read the national intelligence brief.
Mackie, I disagree. Spend some time in the countries who are subversive to our nation. I did. It would open your eyes. These people from these countries are mostly “illegals”, the rest if they are not subversive are undermining American law, culture, stability and our values of “individual rights” with their own “group rights” . Those of you who are in disbelief of the truth of what I am saying are naive.
KG, I get long winded sometimes, not intentional, just have a lot to say. If people don’t want to read it, don’t read it.
KG and Bubba, let me translate.
We have a new surge of “group” advocacy that is coming from other nations, intent on harm and anti-american sentiment. The overseas war has come home. They have learned to use our current individual civil rights laws, to undermine our nation, break it into factions, and use it to their own gender, religious, racial and ethnic group based ideological advantage.
We are powerless to stop it until we think only in terms of individual civil rights, then it becomes transparent what these “Groups” real political and nationalist objectives are national subversion to support their home country war efforts against our nation. This anti-american sentiment is even becomi9ng politically viable in the mexican leadwership, but has not progressed as far as Venezuela, Iran, Iran, and other nations we are engaged in a war on terror with” Our social engineers are getting “sucked-in” and assisting the subversion. These are very smart leading edge militant based groups, and are mostly “illegal” aliens. Other illegal aliens who have brought thier families, simply want to recreate their home countries and have no intention of following our political desires, religious desires or desire for individual civil rights.
Is that clear enough?
“You know what shoveling” is not my intent KG, educating people on the real national security issues is. I have been in war, I have seen it first hand. I doubt many of you have. I understand why we have terrorist groups and subversive people’s among us, and I also understand what they intend to do. Social engineers are helping them and don’t even know it, with a misguided sense of civil rights advocacy that is realy morphed into “group rights” advocacy. That is something that is illegal. Continuned thinking along these lines will destroy our nation and break it into political factions along gender, religious, racial and ethnic group lines. Look at the polls, it is already happening.
KG you have a good point, we need to have a means to identify good from bad. Threat from non-threat.
It amazes me the number of people who want to answer a debate with insulting rather than constructive dialog. If I use the word “naive” to describe anyone I apologize, but I couldn’t think of any other relevant word to use.
KG, you seem to be the exception, you make good constructive points, some I don’t agree with, some I do.
Michael said on 23 Apr 2008 at 8:22 pm:
“This subversion si what causes war in other countries afound the world. Our nation is not immune to the separatist, self-segregating, politically active effrots of culturally subversive cultures. Whould it help you understand if I mentioned why “9-11″ was a culturally subversive event. THe people commiting this act came from inside our borders pretending to be like us, but not like us in their intent.”
Michael, undocumented immigrants from Latin America could not be farther from the 911 terrorists. Latinos come here to BUILD the country, not destroy it. And in spite of their poor treatment by anti-immigrant nativists, they still appreciate our country.
I believe that Americans’ frustration with middle eastern terrorists has caused this scapegoating of Latinos, as the powerless immigrants at hand, who are easy to intimidate. Makes Americans feel like they are doing something to fight back.
But Latinos are not the enemy.
Michael said:
“Continuned thinking along these lines will destroy our nation and break it into political factions along gender, religious, racial and ethnic group lines. Look at the polls, it is already happening.”
Yes, it is already happening…it’s called the anti-immigrant movement. What do you expect latinos to do when they are being called invaders, thieves, criminals…even their children are dehumanized as anchor babies.
Its the anti-immigrant crowd that is really the subversive element here. They’re the ones who want to split the community into factions. Isn’t that exactly what their resolution did. The scars will last for a long time. I’ll never look at fellow residents the same…and I’ll never step out of the house without a concealed handgun in this county ever again.
I think maybe people need to calm down a bit here?
That is, if I am permitted to say that to people?
Just trying to learn my place, sorry.
Excuse me, but how was Elvis’ comment deemed Racist? He said
“They run like cockroaches when a cruizer shows up at 7-11, it’s hilarious.”
I took this as him finding pleasure in that FINALLY those people creating crimes are running in shame, when before they openly benefited on a free ride at our expense. Who said anything about a specific ethnic group?
And to the guy who wants to change his name to “Liberal guy” – Elvis wasn’t just calling names out of despiration, he made a point that is it irrelevant to compare to Nazis as someone did. No, we are not lining htme up and killing them. He is making fun of you for freaking out that we are pleased about enfocing the law against those who are breaking it. He is making fun of you for praising those who break the law. Wow, this seemed to go WAY over your head.
Calling someone a racist can be a racist stereotype within itself. People in this forum have no idea they are equally guilty of that which they spew out.
wow – the misconceptions never end in this group.
Mackie said: Yes, it is already happening…it’s called the anti-immigrant movement. What do you expect latinos to do when they are being called invaders, thieves, criminals…even their children are dehumanized as anchor babies.
You are confusing “anti-immigrant” with “anti-illegal-immigrant”. We only call out those who are in the country illegally – not Latinos. No one is dehumanizing anyone – there actions are illegal, and we have a right (and american duty) to see that those laws are enforced. They knew that when they snuck across the border that it was a no-no. Now that we are enfocing it, most of the PWC citizens are thrilled that we are one of the few bold counties in this nation to take a stance. This has nothing to do with intolerance for other cultures.
Does this greoup seriously consider itself “middle ground”? It makes a clear stance against the resolution (which the public favors). It says it is somewhere in between MWB and HSM? I’d say it is about as close to MWB as possible. People say they “I dont totally agree with MWB” meanwhile they have a hate sign up in public for all to see. Yet, they are completely vile when it comes to GL and HSM. While Greg has some yahoos in his blog – his public stance is against illegals – not Latinos. You – as a group – deem that anyone who agrees with the resolution must be one of his mindless minions. With all of your postings, I do not see one shred of proof that points out HSM as a hate-group. As soon as the question gets to the root, all this group provides is empty accusations of rasism and intolerance. I am not a member of HSM, but wow you people have a lot of hate for those who disagree.
undecided,
rock on brother (or sister)! You seem to be in the ranks of people who have common sense. this whole issue is a common sense one, really no other way to look at it. this blog started because bvbl.net slighted these chicks in some way and either banned them or whatever. That’s one issue.
I’m not sure WHAT this blog actually stands for, seems as though there are people that came here from bvbl because they didnt like greg (I dont really care for him, but his blog does have merit) and their are people here just looking for a fight (kgotthardt)
this blog has no shortage of wackos, no middle ground is here it’s either my way or the highway. HSM isnt a “hate group” in any respect.
trust me people…I’m no racist and my comment was not meant in that way…leave it to Kgotthardt to take it that way. I didnt call the mexicans cockroaches, I said they “scattered like cockroaches” I could have said they “scattered like rabbits, but rabbits hop not scatter”. That’s what I saw, that’s what they looked like. Exactly what happens when you turn the light on and roaches flip out and scatter. Nothing racist here, I call it how I see it.
They have turf to protect, Elvis. Some admit to being married to illegal immigrants; some of the others live in Haymarket havens away from the problems. How much do you want to bet that some have undocumented household help or undocumented workers in their family businesses?
They can look down upon the rest of us who have to drive by the hate wall every day and call us racist. Kind of like Al Gore telling us to live “green” while he jets around the country. A privileged life, indeed.
Merit?? You see merit on BVBL????? LOL LOL LOL LOL Hardy har har…..
I see a bunch of miserable people that no longer have telemarketers to yell at at the end of their miserable day.
Guess you all had to come over here for some action, eh?
Ha ha. It looks as though this blog has been invaded by a few (or one) poster who thinks that if we’re called extreme, hateful, or any other invective that that will make it so…a rather transparent attempt to name-call until the name becomes acceptably stuck to its victim (whether the victim is MWB or a female politician or this blog). If enough OTHERS come here and accuse members of being extremists, it seems to me that they’re trying to discredit our opinions (which were censored on THE OTHER), label us as extreme as they are, and control the perception of us. I suppose it’s a ploy which might work in political campaigns, but we’re just your average PWC residents who don’t like the way the resolution was formulated and passed, and now threatens to gobble up our tax dollars as well as harrass a part of our population.
Ladies,
Oh, it is POLITICS! (SARCASM ALERT)
Maybe, there aren’t as many at the OTHER sand box, and they had to some fun. Yeah, right. Some folks just simply need to grow up and get a life.