According to Chairman Stewart, he supports more legal immigration both in skilled and unskilled areas. Additionally that Stewart acknowledges that there is a national immigration problem and not solely in the area of enforcement is a step in the right direction. The fact that our immigration policy is reviewed about once a decade indicates there’s a problem. We have fluctuating job markets that need addressing from year to year. Consider, how could a policy implemented during the ‘dot-com’ bubble still be relevant today? That immigration policies aren’t reviewed more frequently is a big part of the problem.
I would however strongly disagree that the undocumented are any more likely to commit crimes than the average citizen. Of course, one inevitably will point to the 20% housed in the local jail as ‘evidence’ that this is the case. However, those statistics were compiled after they have begun detaining ‘illegals’ so using those numbers present an inaccurate picture.
And just to be accurate, Federation for American Immigration Reform(FAIR) has be named a HATE GROUP and the President of Help Save Manassas – Greg Letiecq has been named a NATIVIST.
AnonForNow,
I sure hope “Merlin” doesn’t get pulled over and have his status questioned. Is probable cause waving a wand and wearing a pointy hat?
Just watched the video.
The words opportunist and disingenuous come to mind.
And he never really answered Eric’s question did he? He never did say at what point did he realize that FAIR and worked with Stirrup in drafting the resolution. When a politician doesn’t like the question they’ve been asked, they go ahead and give the answer to the question they wish they’d been asked. Politics 101. In this case, Stewart’s response to Eric’s question was that the he’dnever had any formal meetings with FAIR. Again, that wasn’t the question. 🙂 I’d still like to know the answer to that question.
I guess my nature is not as forgiving, because I cannot and will not give him the benefit of the doubt. Sure, it’s easy for him to come out NOW as a compassionate conservative; all the dirty work has been done, and undocumented workers and their families have left in droves. Unfortunately, so have many legal resident aliens and those who had attained citizenships. And that’s not anecdotal.
I’ve never voted for him, nor would I ever, because I don’t trust him.
Moon-howler – missed your comment here, and would like to address – then I will get out of your hair!
You said: I don’t know anyone here who has some ‘racism’ issues, especially the administrator of this blog.”
OK – Why was it necessary to point out that is was a “French Canadian”? Are you French Canadian? I am, and I took a small bit of offense to it – Then, the admin had a laugh about it as well. (BTW Bruce, heard your explanation, its all good – but if you referred to a Latino like that your head would be taken off by the regulars in here).
It’s funny – I say “Illegal Alien” and people stretch that out to somehow mean that “Latinos are not human”, and that anyone against the resolution is a nativist. That is a racial stereotype within itself. It’s rampant in here – and whether or not it “offends” you is not the issue. It’s important for you to be aware that is a racial stereotype.
You said: “Effective, productive dialogue is not established by insulting the owner of the blog or other posters who are just making comment about the events of the day.”
I guess I will learn over time which derogatory comments are OK and which ones are not! So you are saying it is not OK to comment negativily on the admin EVER? I would question that some of the users in this group take a close look at itself, get off it’s self rightous horse, and see if it is not guilty sometimes of what it accuses the “other” blog.
I thought this was a blog to inspire debate about the resolution, not just a bunch of people with the same view. My bad.
AnonForNow said:
“I agree with BruceM that it’s weird that the Board ends up going along with Greg on everything, overriding other’s opinions. They certainly didn’t give a hoot about all the Hispanics who showed up in October. Don’t care about our beloved Chief Deane. Don’t care about following a democratic and practical process.”
I think each of them have their own reasons for going along for now. I do believe that some of them really don’t want to. Perhaps, behind the scenes, a compromise is being worked out. For now they are showing a united front to avoid a messy showdown until their compromise has been worked out. I sincerely hope this is true. But I also believe that Government should be transparent. If there is a compromise being worked out, we should be allowed to see it. We should be allowed to comment in order to avoid another nasty surprise like the current resolution that came out of nowhere.
AnonForNow,
Welcome! Thank you so much for your post, and for keeping an open heart and mind. I really heard the kindness in your words, and I’m so glad you shared them with us.
quick correction on my last post: “and that anyone FOR the resolution is a nativist.”
undecided said:
“I thought this was a blog to inspire debate about the resolution, not just a bunch of people with the same view. My bad.”
Personally I think this blog is wonderful at inspiring dialog about the resolution. I welcome all those with differing opinions to please put some skin into the game. But please don’t complain when the game gets a little rough from time to time. We’re talking about important issues, so can we please let our hair down and not be afraid to be passionate? I value this blog because I believe it embraces and protects freedom of speech. If it fails in this, I’ll have no more motivation to come here. I’ve tried posting quite a bit over at BVBL but Greg has removed a ton of my posts. I’ve enjoyed it when I’ve managed to get into a debate at BVBL but when Greg removes my posts whats the point of posting? His blog has become a mere propaganda tool. It’s sad because it could have been much more. He’s even gone so far as to start removing the link my name would link to whenever I post. He’s gotten so obsessed with this fight he seems to have become a control freak.
undecided, please stop saying this blog isn’t about inspiring debate. The mere fact that you can post that without it being removed, is proof that you’re wrong. By all means keep posting…
I have to say though, I haven’t found you to be in the right on anything…
Undecided,
No, I am not French Canadian. It was used as an identifier. Enough said on that subject. Pretend they said tall Puerto Rican.
Illegal alien is a legal term. It depends on why you were saying it whether or not someone would call you out over it. If there is a specific example of that happening, give me the exact quote tomorrow and I will take a look at it and get to the bottom of the problem
Insulting the admin….You are new here. Would you go to a new job and insult the boss or your co-workers? I sure wouldn’t. I guess my feeling is, it is her blog, if I don’t like how she runs things, I should go start my own. I don’t know why anyone would want to insult her. She is a very nice person and is more than fair to everyone.
And if this blog is on its high-horse…so be it. It is probably a good thing. The OTHER can high horse over there and preach to the choir and we can high horse here and preach to our choir. Everyone is probably much happier.
Finally, Undecided, this might not be the blog for you. That’s ok. Different strokes for different folks.
I hope I have answered your questions. I tend to shoot straight from the hip. No offense to everyone else, but Elena and Alanna are probably the kindest folks here.
Mackie,
I am trying to figure out your the OTHER persona…
Moon-howler,
Well, what can I say? I always try to speak the truth…
Mackie, thanks for your thoughtful response. I think you’re right. Actually, I think you’re always right.
Anyway, I know it seems like a long time from now, but I am thinking that we need to start preparing for 2011 elections. Everyone who voted for this resolution, that is, everyone on the Board except for Principi should be replaced. Remember that these guys work for us. We need to fire them. Perhaps some of the people posting here should consider a run against these incompetent, cowardly, shortsighted people. I know it feels like a long time from now, but truly, we need to start preparing, organizing, raising money right away. Mackie, what are you up do these days?
I really wish Sharon Pandak had been elected. Sigh. Seriously, to really fix the problems in our county, we need new leadership. We can’t get these guys to change their ways. The resolution was the moment of truth and they all revealed themselves to be spineless or stupid or both. They are continuing this spineless behavior by pretending that the resolution is NOT a catastrophic failure.
casual observer, thank you for welcoming me! i’m a big fan.
AnonForNow makes a good point. We need to do some housecleaning before we can do decent housekeeping. It’s sad that we are stuck with these 7 underachievers who voted TWICE for the thing and is likely to vote, in effect, a third time for it on Tuesday with their unanimous decision to continue to implement the entire resolution with budget cuts but no modifications to the resolution.
Un-decided
I think you are a fake.
This is what I know to be true about Corey and the ORIGINAL resolution.
John Stirrup “ambushed”(the exact word used by a supervisor I spoke with shortly after the original resolution was proposed by John) the entire Board. No one knew it was coming. John met with Greg L, John knew about FAIR and IRLI, John S is primarily responsible for the initial resolution. Corey’s responsiblity to the mess we are now in, is that he then saw the political gain and took the issue and ran with it. He continued the rhetoric, and for that he is responsible . Even he agrees that our immigration policy is broken, I truly believe we have more in common with Corey, but he wasn’t willing to be a leader on this issue, just a follower to the rhetoric and the political gain he thought he might achieve.
When I spoke with Corey, the last time, many months ago, we both agreed that people who commit serious crimes should be dealt with by ICE and that was where the final resolution needed to find its resting place. Clearly, that did not happen, he was just being a politician to get me to shut up, just telling me what I wanted to hear, and yet, each time we talked, I really thought he was listening…..foolish me.
Elena – you are only foolish if you buy it twice!!!
Looks like you summed this up well. What is Stirrups motiviation for doing this? Anyone know?
Welcome AnonForNow 🙂
The new Federal SAVE Act is JUST about enforcement and nothing else.
Immigration: Oppose the misnamed “SAVE” Act
H.R. 4088, misleadingly dubbed the “SAVE” Act, is a bill of immigration enforcement measures which includes a particularly ill-conceived expansion of the electronic eligibility employment verification system known as Basic Pilot or E-Verify, which threatens the authorized employment of thousands of U.S. workers. The SSA has estimated that if Basic Pilot/E-Verify were to become mandatory, errors in the SSA database could result in 2.5 million citizens and legal immigrants being misidentified as unauthorized to work in the United States each year. Also, as a result of racial discrimination in hiring practices, people of color would be particularly affected. H.R.4088 also proposes added miles of fencing, boats, helicopters, and border patrol agents for the Southern border, but offers no hope and practical solution for the 12 million undocumented immigrants who are already living in the U.S.
In sum, the “SAVE” Act threatens to put thousands of workers-many of whom are already struggling to make ends meet-at greater risk for job loss. Its enforcement-only tactics will drive undocumented who are here further into the shadows, endangering citizens and non citizens alike.
To urge your Representative to oppose the SAVE Act, send an email to your Representative through our online Action Campaign.
Action Alert at http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/1272/t/4696/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=24284.
To learn more, check out:
An analysis of the Employment Eligibility Verification System proposed in H.R. 4088 written by the National Immigration Law Center. http://www.nilc.org/immsemplymnt/ircaempverif/shuler_EEVS_2008-02-01.pdf
“SAVED”: The SAVE Act, Nativism, and Our Role as Immigration Reform Advocates of Faith,” a blog post written by a staff member of the UUA Washington Office for Advocacy. http://www.streetprophets.com/story/2008/2/25/1017/29086
Check the Library of Congress’sonline records to see if your Representative is a co-sponsor.
Lisa Swanson, Legislative Assistant for Economic & Racial Justice
UUA Washington Office for Advocacy
[email protected]
Stewart is a selfish, arrogant, ignorant, irresponsible person trying to RULE an entire county. There’s nothing likeable about him just because he can don the fake political smile. Anyone can learn to be phony. And anyone can squander money, as he has so proven.
Stirrup is a committed bigot who wants to inflict racist ideals on probably the whole world, just as GL and FAIR do.
Sorry, but I don’t see ANYTHING redeemable in either of them as leaders or political figures.
Maybe not, but there is a huge distinction between the two based on your observation.
AnonForNow, Welcome!! All I can say is WOW! Your story touched my heart. I agree with Moon Howler when she says that it is amazing how our feelings change when we put a faces on people.
I think everyone would agree there are some problems with immigration in the Greater Prince William area but we need to find a way to solve those problems in a respectful, caring manner. The Resolution is not the answer. Do we want criminals on our streets? NO! We do not want criminals from any race or ethnicity on our streets. The resolution is overkill. It appears the BOCS believes all undocumented immigrants are criminals. I can’t believe their objective was just to get criminals off the streets. I believe they want all undocumented immigrants to leave PWC. Look at the interview with Mr. Fuller done by 9500Liberty to see what the long term impact will be on the County.
The BOCS should have allowed the police officers to do their job. It is also appalling to me that they would have so little disregard for Chief Deane, the expert in law enforcement. Just shows you how arrogant they are. I know some are better than others and I know I am labeling them all as arrogant, but didn’t they all vote yes for the Resolution?
The video with Mr. Stewart. Thanks 9500 Liberty. Quite interesting. There was an inference in what Mr. Stewart conveyed when he said that legal immigration can make sure that the people you deliberately let in don’t have criminal records and avoid some of the animosity toward illegal immigrants. That was a subtle way of insinuating that illegal immigrants are criminals. In addition, He kept repeating over and over that he never had any formal meetings with FAIR and that he does not know much about them. I do not believe that for a minute. I can’t believe that his sidekicks, Greg and Mr. Stirrup, did not keep him in the loop. He also kept repeating that he did not write the resolution. Bull!!! If he was not the author he had input. He is a true politician. He never really answered Eric’s question did he? When politicians don’t like the question they’ve been asked, they go off on another issue or they answer the question they wanted to be been asked.
I wonder what the future will hold? I don’t think it will be very easy to attract anyone to live in PWC and I certainly don’t think that any businesses will want to locate in the area. Meanwhile, my hope is people will wake up and see the truth!
Interesting that this mornings Potomac News reports that Woodbridge Supervisor Principi wants to eliminate the police checking of immigration status because the board is leaning towards not funding the police request for cameras. The article also alludes to “other supervisors” who are on the fence. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
By the way admin, in one of your first posts on this thread (sorry, you guys stay up too late for me!) you stated that the 20% Latino population in the jail was figured AFTER the resolution and that is incorrect. Back in August, 2007, the jail released figures that showed the Latino jail population was just over the 20% mark. I am not drawing any conculsions from this, I just wanted to show that your premise was incorrect.
Currently the commercial revenue base is strong, so strong that a few pennies on the tax rate will result in 20% or higher tax increases for them. PWC currently has a residential tax base of 65%. That is too high as we are now seeing. PWC needs to get commercial and residential flip flopped, residential at 45% and commercial at 65%. That will withstand market fluctuations or declines.
We need to attract more solid commercial development in PWC. I don’t think folks will refuse to locate here because they believe we have an illegal population. Businesses locate where they think they can attract employees. Schools, parks, quality of life issues and taxes. Our tax problem is simply not due to any illegal population.
With just the seven million reductiion discussed the other night the schools were hit with an $18 M redcution. And it sounded like the BOCS wanted to keep going.
May 1 is the deadline for adopting a budget or bad juju happens. Let’s get over ourselves and get to the issues.
LD – email.
“He kept repeating over and over that he never had any formal meetings with FAIR and that he does not know much about them. I do not believe that for a minute. I can’t believe that his sidekicks, Greg and Mr. Stirrup, did not keep him in the loop. He also kept repeating that he did not write the resolution. Bull!!!”
FOIA all Stewart’s electronic communications, every single one of them. He’s lying. There’s no way he didn’t know about FAIR unless he’s a complete idiot and is saying he doesn’t know how his Vice gets policy to pass, which would make him an ignorant moron, and he claims not to be.
You have a point!!! 🙂
“Illegal alien is a legal term” I know. I don’t like it. But I’ve argued with many terms the government uses: “Emotionally Disturbed” for example. Stupid and doesn’t communicate the right thing. Few of us really know the distinctions between the immigration population, so why not put it in terms we can all understand? Or would that put the lawyers out of business? : )
“I’ve heard from many people that he is a genuinely nice guy.” He might be a nice guy personally, but professinally he’s all those nasty things I have said about him before. I’ve met people like that. Their career ambitions stomp out every bit of ethics, conscience, and empathy they have ever exhibited in their personal lives. Who is more frightening–the person who wrote this policy or the person who pushed it for personal gain? It’s about the same thing as far as I am concerned.
“No one is being “asked for their papers” unless they are committing a crime.”
BS. Two legal citizens were already detained. Also see
http://luxuriouschoices.blogspot.com/2008/04/wright-is-right.html
As has been pointed out, there are many degrees to not being her legally. Alien is a legal term and is frequently used for businesses not based in the state where they do business. Applying it to a person is unpleasant. It’s like a Dr. saying the patients brain is “unremarkable”. We do have to get past the labelling and get to the issues…. wasting precious time. Who cares what we call anyone – let’s get past that and focus on an outcome so everyone that’s wants to and that can be accomodated can be called neighbor.
I think you bring up a good point, Juturna, that people turn words into insults and negative connotations. I’m not suggesting we fight to change the wording at this time (that’s not the primary concern). I’m just pointing out that the labeling and political rhetoric often contributes to the demise of meaningful conversation and fairness to all.
“Alien” still sounds like ET to me. How old IS that term, anyway? Sounds very 1950’s somehow.
Mackie
Thanks for that specific you tube link and the connection with Advo8er. Unbelievable. What happens now that there are no more telmarketers to yell at!!!
Mackie – I agree and concede to your point.
Moon-Howler – You said: “Insulting the admin….You are new here. Would you go to a new job and insult the boss or your co-workers? I sure wouldn’t. I guess my feeling is, it is her blog, if I don’t like how she runs things, I should go start my own. I don’t know why anyone would want to insult her. She is a very nice person and is more than fair to everyone.”
Is Admin willing to sign my checks? :)?
I in fact DO like the way she runs things. She doesn’t censor, and relies on the people in this group to handle the nay-sayers. I was calling her out on what I thought (and still think) was tolerance to racism. The writer didn’t just use “French Canadian” as an identifier, I believe he used it as how “those French Canadians” stick together based on their ethnicity.
I am sure that most folks in here are nice, and I wasn’t attacking her (the admin) personally as much as I was calling out her action. You didn’t agree with it, and thats OK.
I am sure Elena is nice! – However that doesn’t mean that her thoughts aren’t allowed to be challanged. I give her (and many others here) my top respect for getting involved – regardless of what side they take.
However, the regulars in this group do tend to give broad, overly-general answers to basic questions, then somehow the conversation gets sidetracked. I also see some of the exact same things done here that are done on BVBL, exect on the other side. However this side claims neutrality.
I was a little guilty of mudslinging last night, and I do apologise, as this all gets very spirited.
And the grammar police may arrest me NOW. wow.
Ed,
I called you an idiot above and I want to apologize to you for being so rude. I’m the idiot for acting like that.
Mackie
I concede to your point on the openess aspect in here. I do not concede on the following, and Im VERY glad you posted this as it truly gets to the ROOT if the issue.
I originally said: “Why should we reward and allow illegal immigrants to break the law, and why should we not enforce it?”
You Said: “Try being honest and admitting that it has nothing to do with enforcing the law. The immigration law is simply a tool that the nativists are using to expel a whole community of undesirables.”
My response: This is a perfect example of people in this forus stereotyping people for the resolution as NATIVISTS and Racists. I HAVE done much soul searching on this – and I almost made the mistake of letting people throw enough guilt to blindlingly comply.
You, Mackie, in particular take it an additional step and accuse all cops of being Racists as well.
You said: “What will happen is that a police car will sit on the corner and watch 10 cars driving by that are driving 10 MPH over the speed limit. As soon as the cop sees a latino face, the donuts hit the car floor and the flashing lights go on. ”
I am glad we have immigrants. I have lived here for 5 years in Sudley Manor. I applaud and appreciate the clash of different cultures. I love the mexian restaurants, I have no problem with people coming in speaking different languages, parking wherever, playing loud music (white teens are worse then anyone blaring gangsta rap in their cars). I was born and raised in the DC area, and have grown up with it. I like it this way, and it is one of the reasons I stay in the DC area.
I do not like a large amount of people coming in at an alarming rate that the infrastucture cannot handle, while using up resources on the taxpayers tab. My only HUGE complaint with the illegals (personal experience) is the School system. They have brought down the learning curve to a point where grade-school were being taught basic english (and not just in ESOL). We now homeschool, and at great cost and sacrafice to us. This has nothing to do with any particular ethnic group as much as it does the speed in which our area was innundated with illegal aliens. I do believe that a majority of them were taking advantage of a broken system in PWC, which is now being fixed.
My heart does go out to them, and I do not tolerate racist attitutes towards Latinos. However, I still feel it is best that the law in enforced. If we allow the precident of not enforcing our laws, this country will not be better off for it.
Posts like yours are the REASON I am here. Many in this group take the stance of those for the resolution as being Natvist or Racist. This is not true people. Sure, there are some yahoos on both sides, but in general – the people of PWC are not Racist, however they do not want their town to be innundated with people who are using up all the system resources. We have had immigrants in this town for a long time, and there was NEVER an issue until the amount of Illegals were starting to stack up in huge amounts.
Juturna said on 24 Apr 2008 at 7:42 am:
Un-decided
I think you are a fake.
Looks like im getting to some people 😉
No, you are not getting to me – I don’t like pretend, that’s all.
You can be a legend in your own mind if you like. Have fun!
Juturna – Do you have anything at all to conribute to the discussion? If you want to spend all day calling people fake, go to town. I wont stop you!
I’m sure you couldn’t if you wanted to.
KG – Agree. It pushes folks to digress and doesn’t really change the facts. Sticks and stones……
Some folks without an honest objective do use names as a weapon to control. Don’t let it. That’s all I meant. 🙂
“originally said: “Why should we reward and allow illegal immigrants to break the law, and why should we not enforce it?”
Who is REWARDING? Some of us are asking to allow them to earn citizenship because they have contributed to this society and have a PAPERWORK PROBLEM!
If you are behind on your taxes, are you being REWARDED by being allowed to make up for that? Noooooo…..you just fix it. That’s all.
“We have had immigrants in this town for a long time, and there was NEVER an issue until the amount of Illegals were starting to stack up in huge amounts.” But you don’t even know how MANY there are, and no one bothered trying the neighborhood approach FIRST!
10% of the world possess 85% of the world’s wealth. Most of those 10% live here. There is some thought that “I earned it”, well, 95% of your wealth was dumb luck to be born here. Don’t give yourself so much credit.
Due to this dumb luck, I feel an obligation to be compassionate and respect those that almost died getting here to improve their lives.
Reward??? Food is a reward? Unlawful entry is a civil offense. Less of a crime than speeding. Think about that the next time you are flying down the parkway or 234 thinking how rightous you are…..
I recall a post on the other from Advoxxxxx asking for the lisence plate number of the folks bringing food to day laborers standing in the teeming cold rain. Not racist,not predjudiced just simply hateful.
Remember when it was a felony to be part of the underground railroad? Welcome back to the 1800’s people.
Undecided- a very large part of the problem is that we have almost 20 years of unenforced law. This was a federal responsibilty that was shirked, intentionally. Now we must ask if the burden of rectification lies with the federal governement that created this mess, or with local governements. I say that local governements are ill equipped to address this issue and that most approaches are band aids with a pretty hefty price tag.
Take Lansdowne. How much money was spent on the “raid”? I am not sure but it sure did make for good publicity for ICE. 59 workers apprehended and put under removal proceedings. What is less known, with the exception of one local news story, is that ICE released all but 5 of them back into the community. Why? Because they simply do not have the bedspace or the manpower to actually follow through with the deportation. They had to resolve the PW County jail space crisis because it is under the spotlight. On a broader regional perspective, is this a solution? What does this mean to the advocates of deportation of all undocumented immigrants, with absolutly no provisions for adjustment of status? It means simply,it aint gonna happen.
As for the schools, there have got to be better ways to fast tract English aquisition and mainstream students. I am not in favor of bilingual education, not sure if that is present in PW county. I agree with Elena (I think it was Elena) that the greater problem is with the failures of the No Child Left Behind and the required obsessive focus on standards based education that places unrealistic pressures on our educators.
kgotthardt – so now we are enslaving the immigrants?
Juturna – remember the aggressive driving laws? I didn’t have the luxury of speeding down 234, while the illegals could in thier painter vans. They were immune from having to pay the fines!
undecided;
The french canadian comment was meant to illustrate that Greg is also an immigrant, just like all of us are. In no way was it racist, not even sure where you are coming from with that one.