According to a new youtube channel, it looks as if Greg’s spawning an ‘army’ in Fairfax; very disturbing.
164 Thoughts to “Holy Smoke!”
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Censored bybvbl,
“Got any new music for us?”
How about this one? 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTxr2NJHa0
AW,
See always attacking and not debating! I thought that you were not coming back to tis website (three weeks ago); but you are always lurking (you knew about Emma).
You thought that I have attacked you because of I questioned you about a situation you presented. I didn’t make up anything!
By the way, yo never defended me.
Man, for such impassioned people you sure know how to throw the dirt! After reading the above posts I had flashbacks of grade school. Well, at least I felt young again ; )
Admin, I appreciate you addressing my concerns. That said, considering those IPs that you have banned from this site, you really don’t want to post anything from those who might try to offer a credible opinion from the other side. Steve Thomas is on the board of Help Save Manassas and, with regard to Corey Stewart’s children’s school name/location, are you saying that his children are posting comments, or have you banned a multitude of people who know him and would like to defend him against the multitude of attacks against him on this site? Of course, the other question is, are you censoring Corey Stewart and/or anyone closely associated with him? The common theme here if, of course, that you are indeed censoring this site. That was not what you led people to believe when you started it. It seems that “free and open exchange” is actually more likely at BVBL than here, at least from my experience every time that I’ve made an appearance.
If my appearance on this site this evening was perhaps a bit adversarial, consider the hateful nature of the comments in this thread which preceded mine, which was very mild in comparison.
Redawn, good one…
I was thinking of grade school too, Second Alamo. This reminds me of that critical point in time when the school yard bully finally meets his match. Not because a bigger bully comes to town, but because the kids he’s been pushing around for too long have finally banded together. I could almost feel sorry for this bully, if he hadn’t ruined the career of a friend of mine.
AWCheney,
I haven’t banned anyone, no ipaddresses etc… The first time you submit comments they go into a moderation queue for approval which might take a little while; and then some users I have flagged for moderation but thus far haven’t censored them. The closest I came but didn’t was Emma/Willoughby. Maybe this is a too technical explanation but rest assured nobody has been censored. Thanks for contributing.
TH, I said I’ve been “lurking” in one of my comments…I suppose, now, it is being suggested that no one other than those who agree with your position have a right to even read this blog. Insofar as never having defended you, I did not mean that I defended your opinion, but I often defended your right to express it…as I did for others, regardless of which side of the issue they may fall. When you took it upon yourself to attack me PERSONALLY (not my opinion, mind you), questioning my parenting skills (of which I am quite proud), among other things, I DO take exception!
Sorry if I misunderstood Admin. I was basing my comment upon this quote from your comment:
“So far, I’ve CENSORED Steve Thomas’ home address and Corey Stewarts childrens school name/location, that’s it.”
NOTE: Emphasis mine
AWCheney,
See, there is reasonable conversation to be found here.
Shake, Rattle and Roll 🙂
AWCheney said on 28 Apr 2008 at 10:14 pm:
Let me help clarify some issues for you. Emma was told that she could come back in one week due to her vicious personal attacks against Twinad. I am mostly to blame for the suggestion of banning her. However, UNLIKE Greg, we were very open about it. No games, no thinking you are posting when in actuality you were only “talking” to yourself. Now she is posting back under another name, so clearly her “time out” was short lived. AW, you are not having a lively debate on the other site, Greg has blocked many of the people who you are posting with here.
Now, onto the Nazi analogy. As someone who is Jewish, who has been to the holocaust museum several times, and went to Israel to really learn the meaning behind a Jewish State, I can tell you that the hate that is growing should not be dismissed. I am not suggesting that PW citizens, concerned about immigration are Nazi’s or that latino’s are going to be exterminated. I am suggesting that Greg’s tactics are troublesome, that when he talks about his strategy as being in a war, that they have a battle plan, that you need to “raise an army”. He promotes hate on his blog, he incites it in fact. John Doucaster/Advocator talks about “repelling the invasion” and the “anchor babies”. Like he says, you are either “with us or you are not”.
There is a real discussion that needs to happen, about immigration, about race, about urbanization and demographic change, about economics, about our value system as a nation built upon the sweat and labor of our ancestors. We need to talk about our foreign policy and NAFTA. There is alot that needs to be addressed, and knee jerk reaction, based on fear and misinformation, is no way to create sound public policy.
AW,
You have the right to read this blog and write whatever you want. Don’t feel bad when you say something and people use your statement to support an argument. I don’t know you so I cannot say anything about you parenting skills. All I can say is that there is a reality that it is hard for you to accept when the illegal immigration issue affects your family. The more you write about you and your family, the easier for us to understand why you think a certain way about immigration (not about being a good or bad mother)
AW, I notice that you often say that you are disappointed in someone. You said it to me back on bvbl before I was kicked off. I always counted on you for interesting economic analyses, and you often berated the wackos on that site for sinking to lowlife racist commentary. I thought you were a reasonable conservative. Well, I’m disappointed in you here for stooping to a level of tit for tat discourse that was beneath you. Unless you are losing it. Maybe everyone is going crazy.
Elena, if you truly wish to address “the hate that is growing,” perhaps you should look back at some of these very comments on this thread. I see nothing of tolerance or an attempt at understanding in the vast majority of them, coming primarily from three people. Even your own post attempts to read something into Greg’s speech, totally out of context to its meaning given the forum. IT WAS A SPEECH ABOUT GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATION USING AN ANALOGY OF A MILITARY-TYPE STRATEGY AT A POLITICAL EVENT. By turning that into something hateful, you are yourself responsible for the tone set here (you are the author, I trust…admin?), one which is hardly conducive to reasonable debate or discussion. THAT is what prompted my sudden reappearance on your blog, which was greeted by the type of childish personal attacks worthy of the likes of Jimmy Young (somebody mentioned him earlier), although his are usually generously sprinkled with expletives, which I’m certain you would NOT allow on this site, as Greg does not allow on his.
Charlotte, I had no idea you were “kicked off” of BVBL…I wondered what happened to you. When DID that happen? I can’t imagine why Greg would have done that. I always enjoyed our exchanges over there.
In terms of my “tit for tat,” perhaps my comment to Elena will help explain that for you. I trust that you will notice that my “tit” was a great deal less rude than their “tat.”
Aguila tribal,
if Greg and the ignorant Cory want to raise an army, ok, now they have said so!! I bet them when they see the real thing, they are not going to find their way around.
their emty head only encourage them to hate, if they want to hate they can go to Arkansas where the rest of the stupid KKK are.
now it’s clear that they want war , ok, let’s call for a meeting to train people, then salvadorans can take care of this shit!!
we don’t want war, but we don’t have another choice, somehow we have to protect our families, if they come with racist laws, that means we have to face them!!.
it doesn’t matter if he is the chairman , he is not making the laws according with God have said { love your brother} selfish people like Greg and stewart, they just want the earth and all the wealth for them
if they are looking for a war, then they will find war!!
Aguila tribal.
AWCheney,
Quick clarification, it’s kind of confusing, we have Elena and Alanna. We are actually two individuals.
Listen, I’ve been involved in a couple successful grassroots organizations, and we never thought to carry a firearm, wear fatigues, talk about forming an ‘army’ etc… It’s just so unlike anything that I’ve heard before, it really is very shocking.
By the way Charlotte, when I say that I’m disappointed in someone it is because I respect that person and expect better of them, for one reason or another. I can’t recall the occasion when I may have said that to you but, rest assured, I would only have said it if I thought your logic of the moment was beneath you (that’s a compliment, by the way).
AWC,
Greg does not allow normal discourse on his site so that analogy is irrelevant. When people refer to hispanics as parasites, dog food, invaders, dirty, compare them to animals who have breeding seasons, and state they are happy that no “brown faces” are at the bus stop, that is NOT reasonable debate. I have been involved in many a grass roots effort in this county, and never, NOT ONCE, did anyone EVER refer to our strategy as a battle plan and it wasn’t because we did not have ex military in the group. You don’t see the issue with Greg’s presentation, that is your perception, clearly for many of us, we have a different perception.
I would add, the “personal attacks” you refer to are silly. Are you referring to “go smoke a cancer stick”. Compared to what people on the other site say, seems pretty tame to me.
I have been called names here by people too cowardly to post by their real names. Doesn’t bother me though.
I am also not Admin, I’m not computer savvy enough, wish I were though!
AWCheney,
“I’m very disappointed in my judgment right now, Redawn.”
I hope this means I can sleep tight? 🙂
Okay, I am off to bed and my panel of marketing experts( LOL,they know who they are) have advised me that I should AWAKE tomorrow with the correct spelling of my INTENDED misspelling ( trying to be original) moniker RED DAWN. I have given the reason why I chose it over a year ago.
one last time.
1redawn| October 17, 2007
If anyone is wondering, I cose my moniker redawn, pronouced: Red Dawn .
Here is the reason why:
I am just a small town, hometown girl who didn’t realize, the power of ONE VOICE, that could make a difference.
I am NOT a know it all, if ANYTHING I am asking questions, not looking for trouble. That’s was the gist of the movie, Red Dawn ,in the middle of no where, not looking for trouble, never thought you would be faced with the position of defending your country, your rights, even though you were grateful for your freedom and the respect of those who did fight and lost their lives.
It is up to EVERY American to do so, do not sit back and think you are just a number….it takes ONE and the rest will follow
I don’t find this video funny at all. I find Greg Letiecq very frightening. I can’t help it. I do think of Hilter when I watch this video. I think he literally means he wants to “conquer the world” with his Army. That is just my gut reaction. This guy has been involved with too many Civil War reenactments at Bull Run. And his reference to Virginia Civil Defense League is also chilling. VCDL appears to be a vigilante, quasi-militia group given to very aggressive tactics. Watch this youtube video about what they did to families of Virginia Tech victims protesting the gun show loophole in our ridiculous gun state gun law. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL7g8hbzQzw
Here is the testimony of one of the parents about that day:
Sorry about the confusion, Alanna. Anyway, to your comment: Greg never said anything about “carrying a firearm or wearing fatigues.” What he said was, “Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to raise an army,” which led to a bit of laughter from the audience, as it was meant to do. He then went on into a military-type analogy (not unusual for a former military officer) saying, “Think about it…every major ground swelling change (such as an issue) in world history involves someone raising an army (like Mexicans Without Borders or Help Save Manassas) arming themselves (with pamphlets, knowledge, passion), pointing them in a direction (neighborhood), and kicking butt (signing up people for the cause).” The comments in parenthesis are obviously mine.
Anyone who has ever been involved in grassroots organization (which I have been, going back to 1969) should be able to recognize the analogy in that. Organizing an area into an effective grassroots organization IS much like raising an army. You’re allowing your hatred to cloud your reason in this particular instance…or perhaps the fear which has been generated by people like ALSREYS, who commented here on your site at 11:26 pm. Taking something so totally out of context serves no further purpose than taking the issue out of the realm of reason and firmly planting it into the realm of negative emotion…it adds nothing to the debate.
My husband works with a woman that lost her only child, her daughter, an 18 year old freshman, gunned down that horrible day at VA Tech.
How anyone could laugh is beyond my comprehension, as a thinking feeling human being and mother of two, I am appalled. This is who Greg takes his strategy from? Is he a member of VCDL?
ALSREYS said on 28 Apr 2008 at 11:26 pm:
What we need is to fight hatred with facts and reason. Greg will only last as long as people don’t have a sane lternative to turn to.
Elena, something else you should keep in mind about Greg…his very first political involvement only dates back to 2003 (it may actually be as recent as 2005, which was the first time I encountered him…on the other side). He hit the ground running and has had little time, or experience, to become a polished activist. He’s going to make some mistakes along the way…we all have, and do. What he has accomplished with the unprecedented growth of Help Save Manassas is quite astonishing, showing an amazing talent for grassroots organization. He may not express himself in polished, politically correct terms right now, but I expect that will come if he continues on his current path.
Personally, I’m not so sure that we need all those polished, politically correct activists who know how to express themselves just so, without antagonizing anyone. But, I suppose, when people are so ready to take every word out of context to satisfy their own prejudices, that’s the price we must pay.
With regard to generating fear and hatred, I trust you realize that ALSREYS’ remark, “…now it’s clear that they want war , ok, let’s call for a meeting to train people, then salvadorans can take care of this shit,” is a direct reference to MS-13. Just something for everyone to think about.
AWCheney,
Frankly, I’m wondering if Greg is a militia guy. Remember he was a Maryland Army National Guard infantryman. If it’s true that he began his political activities in 2003 and he is now 42, what did he do to occupy his active mind between his military stint in Maryland and his engagement in this new Battle of Manassas? What attracted him to Manassas? Is he one of the regular Civil War reenactment participants? Did he meet military men through that? The militant language of HSM has always bothered me. The fact that their newsletter looks like a military newsletter and is called the Front Line; the fact that Robert Duecaster, the author of the resolution, thinks that there is a foreign invasion; the fact that after the election, Corey Stewart said Prince William County is the second Alamo. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/07/AR2007110702525_pf.html What kind of childish, imaginary war game are these guys playing? So Greg’s Army will descend upon the McCoart building tomorrow playing their war game. Are the supervisors supposed to just roll over? The county residents elected them. There are over 350,000 people in this county. Even if it’s true that HSM is an army of 2000, it’s still an extreme minority. They do not represent the will of the people. I’m going to say it. I think the organizers of HSM are militant insurgents and extremists. They should not determine county policy with repercussions for an entire generation.
Dear Supervisors,
I beg you, please do not cower at the sight of the mob tomorrow. We, the citizens of the county, do not want you to think that these HSM extremists represent the majority. It’s just not true. Please exercise your judgment and do what is right. Stand together–the six of you–and do not act in fear of this mob. We promise you that in the next election, we will be there to help you win your elections. We will stand with you if they try to assassinate your character. We will come to your defense. We will stand with you as you attempt to save our county from further destruction by this extremist, quasi-military group. We do not have to be part of their imaginary war against Mexico.
Perhaps I should ask SecondAlamo (suspected to be Tom Kopko) about these military references.
good lord why am still up?!
AWC,
I guess I just don’t have patience for a guy that uses tactics like he does. Citizens have turned out in droves to protect the rural crescent, to fight for parks and open space, and yet,mostly we lose. Why is that? Maybe we don’t villify the way Greg does, maybe we don’t insight people’s inner fear and hatred of people that look and sound different, maybe we don’t manipulate facts to suit our needs, or maybe we don’t have the right “battle” cry. Has he been effective, sheesh, I can’t argue that, incredibly effective. But if this it what it takes to get government to move on an issue these days, I’ll pass.
“Citizens have turned out in droves to protect the rural crescent, to fight for parks and open space, and yet,mostly we lose. Why is that?”
Perhaps, Elena, the vast majority of the citizens of Prince William County do not agree with you, on your particular issues…and they’re the ones who vote. It can make a difference.
Take a close look at this video of Corey looking adoringly at Greg at the Virginia Conservative Leadership Conference. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuwiqTbzvL0
I feel sick.
If you can stomach it, take a look at this video of Hitler during his rise to power. I don’t mean to disturb you, but I’m truly frightened of Greg and what is happening in our county. http://youtube.com/watch?v=XgeSO-i25FU&feature=related
While you’re at it compare the video to any political speech. They all look the same, whether for good or evil. Check out citizen time during the Resolution hearing. Plenty of little ‘Hitlers’ there from BOTH sides based on your comparison. A speech is a speech for God’s sake! You folks have gone off the deep end as well as some of the Other at times. This blog is no longer Anti BVBL, it’s now BVBL Jr.
“Greg threatened you? That’s the funniest damn thing I ever heard. Let’s see, Greg weighs about a buck twenty-five and he threatened you. That’s a good one.” If you knew anything about crime, you would be smart enough to know that predators take on all sizes and shapes. If GL is armed, he could be 3 feet tall and it wouldn’t make a difference. Outside of that, I’m in poor physical health and my daughers could do me in! So this isn’t about who is going to tackle whom.
“For one thing, the Jews in Germany had been there all along” Yes, Anon, and the Native Americans who ARE the Hispanics have been HERE all along. What is your point?
Let me repeat. There IS a Nazi party in the United States. There ARE groups called “skinheads” who adopt those same ideals. The KKK loves groups like these. GL’s ideals match those of the American Nazi Party/skinheads/KKK. He might not be a memeber, but he could easily be their poster boy.
Bruce, as someone who loves the Battlefield, I’m scared all over again.
I’m glad you brought up GL’s other affiliations. It tells me my gut and my reading of his emails and interpretations of his videos are correct.
Someome PLEASE get this man’s head examined before he really does go out and get someone killed.
You folks are crazy. I happen to be Jewish too, and just because I’m for the resolution you call me a Nazi. In your book everyone for the resolution is a Nazi. Yes, there are skinheads in the USA but I haven’t encountered any in PWC.
My wife came here legally and waited in line like everyone else, and it was a long frustrating process for the both of us. Why should other people get a free pass when we waited patiently in line and did it legally?
As someone who lives next to a townhouse full of 15 people, consisting of 3 families – I know what it is like. This is because City of Manassas has recently checked on them after one of them was caught breaking into our house while we were on vacation. He was an undocumented (using your term) immigrant. It was in the City of Manassas so unfortunately the law didn’t apply to him. After being caught he moved out in the middle of the night and of course the rest of the residents there claim they don’t know where he went. Now our insurance rate has gone up due to the stuff he stole (2 laptops, a camera, and other things) that was never recovered since it was our 2nd claim (the last one was several years ago due to hailstorm damage). Meanwhile that house has more people in it, who throw beer bottles and other stuff all over the place.
So I’m a Nazi for having experienced that lately and not liking undocumented (using your word) immigrants? I’m sorry, a lot of them are lawbreakers, and they need to leave. When it costs me money, and makes my wife feel insecure about our house – I have plenty of reason to support the resolution. Maybe when it affects you personally (I know someone who was in an auto accident with an undocumented immigrant who had no driver’s license/insurance) then it will hit home.
Another example about this townhouse – they have so many people living there they’ve moved some of the furniture onto their deck. I’m waiting for it to collapse under the weight – there’s a good 500 pounds of furniture out there – not just tables or chairs – but a large dining room cabinet among other things. Very nice looking… Their cigarettes are all over our backyard – we don’t smoke and they toss them in our backyard like they don’t care. Very nice people. Frequently find beer bottles too (broken some of the time).
My reference to the German Jews being citizens was to try and stop this ridiculous analogy you are drawing – the German’s executed their own citizens.
Anyway, I’m tired of this debate – with the personal attacks – being told to “go back to my scumhole” not even knowing if I came from BVBL. In fact, I don’t agree with a lot of what is said on there and have never posted there, and am not a member of HSM.
However I find this board to be full of hate, personal attacks, misinformation, etc. It is just as bad as BVBL. And calling someone who is Jewish a Nazi and a scumhole, well that’s sinking pretty low. Continuing to minimize the Holocaust by saying what is happening in PWC is a lot like that. As someone else said, it is just a bunch of school kids calling each other names. Anyone you don’t agree with is a Nazi, or comes from a scumhole, or some such thing. Just because I don’t agree with you – I need to “go back to my scumhole”. Nice. I’ll tell you what – the people next door to me need to go back to their scumhole, since they don’t seem to mind breaking into neighbor’s houses, littering, and doing other law breaking things. Their cars have no recent city sticker on them, so obviously they don’t pay the personal property tax either.
I suspect there are other Jewish people who support the resolution. Calling them Nazis is not helpful at all and is very demeaning and insulting. And it continues to prove you have no clue about the Holocaust. If you personally knew people like I do who’s relatives were killed, you wouldn’t be comparing what is happening now to the Holocaust. If you knew someone who bears the marks the Nazis put on them to mark them as a Jew, you wouldn’t be comparing what is going on here to the Holocaust. We aren’t branding people with serial numbers to mark them as illegal immigrants. All we are asking is they go back and get in line like everyone else wanting to immigrate here.
Apparently in your book it is OK to call people names and using offensive terms, but you continually criticize other’s for using terms that offend you.
Anonymousisawoman has a good post up titled When They Come for You Who Will be Left? Check it out at http://anonymousisawoman.blogspot.com/
That’s a large size paint roller you have there, anon.
It is a laugh reading this website. No wonder nothing gets decided. People demean each other and call them names and insult their families, parenting skills, and threaten their jobs. This website is recommended reading for a good laugh. “Oh no, the Nezis are here in Prince William County”!! We can’t feel safe because armies are going to start marching down the street with guns and start rounding people up off the streets!
I’m sure you all are especting to see Swastikas and people with uniforms and rifles present tonight at the BOCS meeting! Maybe you can call each other names there instead of debating this issue. I’m sure talking about how the Jewish people were killed in gas chambers helps a lot. Give me a break. The Holocaust was a big sham anyway, we all know it was propoganda by the Jews so they could be allowed to form their own state, which everyone who has any sense is calling for its disolution.
“My reference to the German Jews being citizens was to try and stop this ridiculous analogy you are drawing – the German’s executed their own citizens.”
Anon – if you knew anything about the Holocaust, you would not have made such a claim. The Germans then did NOT see the Jews as fellow citizens, in fact they even went so far as to decree they weren’t Germans at all and never could be, because the jewish people believed themselves to be the “chosen” people. Separate and distinct from Germans.
You remind me of a poster on BVBL who made outrageous claims about the Nazis in WWI…whose family escaped them in WWI. If you’re that poster, and are going to lie at least have the fortitude to look up what you’re trying to pass off as fact.
I may not be a supporter of illegal immigration or illegal immigrants, but unlike THAT place, illegals are referred to as people here – unlike there where they are dehumanized by being called cockroaches and vermin. Precisely what the Nazis did to the Jews…dehumanize their targets so they become more vulnerable to attack.
…. and a long arm.
Forget it – the first post I make here I’m told “to go back to my scumhole” and now it is being claimed I’m saying something about WWI. For one thing, I said I never posted on BVBL but apparently that isn’t believed. All I can say – is Jewish people will be offended if you call them Nazis. I support the resolution, but as has been stated on this board, that means I’m a Nazi. I’m offended. I’m done with this board and the name calling. I never called anyone any names in any of my posts but one poster was very quick to tell me to “go back to my scumhole”. As has been said repeatedly, there is sure a lot of name calling here – calling people Nazis, scumholes, etc. I didn’t see any posts where I referred to anyone in a derogatory term like that. Labeling people as Nazis when they support a resolution is plain stupid. Automatically assuming someone is racist is just as stupid. Some of the statements made here about the Holocaust are misinformed to say the least, and I’m not going to bother refuting them. When people start getting tattooed with numbers on their forearms and rounded up to be sent to execution camps, then we’ll start talking. I won’t even touch the sweeping statement that the reason the Germans went after the Jews was that they belived themselves to be “chosen”. Don’t tell me what I know and don’t know about the Holocaust – do you know anyone who has a relative that was caught up in the Holocaust? I do. I’m out of here – I hope you call people Nazis at the meeting tonight and get a big backlash from the people who are properly offended like that – other Jewish supporters of the resolution.
…. but probably not a long penis – we all know Jews have short penises!
Anon, why don’t you have the guts to say just who it is that is slinging the “Nazi” or “racist” term around. You’re the one doing the smearing. I resent that you’re trying to put words in my mouth.
“I resent that you’re trying to put words in my mouth.”
Or mine!
Anon, I support the resolution too – but nobody has called me a racist or a Nazi. Maybe it’s in the way you present yourself…
And furthermore, it is apparant you do not know much about the Holocaust. Otherwise you would shut your yap on it and not make the absurd claims you do.
So quit bitching and address the topic at hand instead of making it all about how unfairly you’re being treated. It isn’t all about YOU.
If I may be so brave to step into the fray, we really should be certain that we keep the discourse CIVIL. I know there is a highly emotional aspect to this, but take the sound advice given to me by my wife on several occasions:
Think before you hit SEND (or in this case SUBMIT). Read what you wrote. What would you think if you read those words from someone else? What are you going to think about those words tomorrow? Next week? Next year?
I have to be honest, there have been times that I have cringed reading some of the things posted here by people who I know share some of my views. I hestiate to call people out by name, but some of you need to take a deep breath sometimes before you let your emotions get the best of you and post something that I’m sure you believe is rational and reasonable, but can come across as shrill and somewhat out of left field (and I don’t mean that in a political sense). Calling someone a Nazi or fascist or telling them to “go back to their scumhole” is counter-productive and only reinforces the negative views of those assembled here (just as some of the mean-spirited and insensitive comments on BVBL taint those who are active there). If some want to come here and bait you, rise above it. Don’t take the bait. Don’t sink to their level.
What is going on in PWC is reprehensible, but the Holocaust was inhumanity of a completely different scale. Comparing what is going on in PWC to Nazi Germany diminishes just how horrible the Holocaust was and relegates a terrible chapter in human history to hyperbole easily dismissed. We should take note and learn from history to make sure it never happens again. But let’s keep the hyperbole and scare tactics to a minimum. Just because “they” do it, doesn’t make right or appropriate. WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT! Wasn’t that the whole point of this blog?!? If we do not rise above the petty, we are no better than those we are trying to counter. We come off as the same sort of pontificating, self-righteous blowhards. Emma for all her faults, intentional baiting, and spite did have one interesting point. While this blog was started as a counter-point to BVBL, maybe it’s time it take on an identity of its own and rise above the tit-for-tat sniping that comes out of trying to be just a counter to BVBL.
The calls for Corey Stewart’s recall need to stop. It ain’t gonna happen, so there’s no use even wasting energy on that front. It seems petty. Same with bringing him up on hate crime charges or civil rights abuses. Again, it ain’t gonna happen. Let’s not diminish the power of those words and the types of activities that rise to that level. We may not like what Corey Stewart has done and we may question his motives, but his actions have not risen to the level of hate crime in any truly meaningful sense. Calling it such only serves to try to squash legitimate public discourse on a very sensitive, emotional, and divisive issue and makes it far to easy to dismiss the message by branding the messenger a whacko. Mr. Stewart and Mr. Letiecq have every right to their opinions and beliefs regardless of how misguided or wrong we may think they are. Let’s keep in mind that the resolution was adopted by unanimous vote–it was not imposed on us by Corey Stewart alone. Are we ready to say all of our supervisors were complicit in a hate crime?
Mentioning Greg’s wife and deaf child was unnecessary. His marital status is irrelevant. As much fun as it is to parse every word Greg speaks (and I’ve fallen prey to the temptation myself), the constant focus on him only serves to elevate his status. This blog was far more effective when the discussion centered on practical solutions and approaches rather than what is quickly turning into an inquisition.
Yes, it is important to point out the connections between Greg Letiecq/Corey Stewart/John Stirrup and FAIR/NumbersUSA, etc. It is useful to post things like this speech as it does show a side that can be a bit frightening. While I understand AWC’s claim that it’s just a metaphor, this speech doesn’t stand alone. It also comes with the background of other things said, done, and written by Greg. Were this speech the only thing in the public record, the reaction to its military tones would be inappropriate or a leap. But taken with the whole of Greg’s body of work, the language used here does make one take notice. It may be useful to know who is funding his movement (is it really as “grassroots” as claimed), but that doesn’t mean trying to dig up every piece of dirt you can on the man. Again, let’s not fall prey to the same hysteria fomented elsewhere.
Let’s stop sniping at each other and posters we don’t agree with. Point out the fallacies in their argument rather than resorting to attacking their person. Let’s stop “calling people out” questioning their “guts” If they don’t want to debate on the same level, don’t sink to theirs. Ignore them until they elevate their discourse. I don’t agree with Medic on much, for instance, but I respect that his arguments have been focused on the issue at hand and not aimed at my person.
Turn PW Blue: A very well thought out post and I’m glad you are trying to tone down the name calling and labeling of people who are pro-resolution that has gone on lately. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, it’s no reason to stoop to the level of name calling.
CensoredByBVBL: Funny, someone tried to put words in my mouth when someone said above that I said something about the Nazis and WWI – which I never did. And I never accused you of saying anything. As far as who is slinging the words racists and Nazis around – just look at previous posts on this board in previous threads – I don’t need to call out any names. My very first post when I said the Holocaust is nothing like the resolution, I was told to “go back to my scumhole”. Nice words. I never called anyone anything on this board. Fine, if you don’t believe people were branded with numbers during the Holocaust and hauled off to concentration camps (seems to be the “absurd claims you are saying I make”) then that’s your perogative. But to compare the resolution to the Holocaust as posters have done here is what is misinformed, and dangerous – because it does indeed minimize the Holocaust. I’m not going to go back and find the names of the posters, you can do that yourself. I’m not going to go back and find the posts where it was stated that people supporting the resolution are racists or Nazis. For you to say I’m misinformed about the Holocaust is obviously an attempt to insult me as a Jewish person. Maybe you would like to be called anti-Semitic? Maybe you would like to have a label applied to you that doesn’t apply – interesting when the tables are reversed – isn’t it?
Well, it is clear I’m not welcome here – since the first post I was made i was told to go back to my scumhole. Fine, maybe it is clear what that really means now given the tone of this board.