The modification of the “Probable Cause” portion of the Immigration Resolution is good for Prince William County. A unanimous vote last night by the Board of Supervisors means that law enforcement here is no longer fundamentally unfair.
PWC Police Officers will no longer be required to check documentation status for minor traffic stops. Therefore equal protection under the law has been restored to citizens and legal residents who fit “probable cause” indicators such as language proficiency.
Police Officers are no longer in needless danger of being accused of racial profiling. Like most other counties in the United States, we will again check legal status only after arrest. Furthermore, legal status will be questioned for ANYONE who is arrested, thus dispelling the appearance of prejudice.
It is a great relief not to have to worry about a nightmare scenario where one of Prince William County’s Finest finds him or herself dragged into court, forced to explain that, “It wasn’t because of her skin color that I arrested a legal citizen who forgot her drivers’ license, it was the way she pronounced the letter ‘L.'”
High praise for Frank Principi and Martin Nohe for working together to outmaneuver Corey Stewart and John Stirrup. High praise for John Jenkins for bringing to bear on this contentious debate his years of experience working out the details of budgets and negotiations in the best interest of the county. High praise for Maureen Caddigan and Mike May. I’m sure it took long hours of soul-searching and ultimately, personal courage for these moderate Republicans to go against their conservative colleagues, Stewart and Stirrup. This progress would not have been possible without moderate Republicans and Democrats working across party lines for the common good. Thank goodness Wally Covington came around to join the moderates and abandon extreme partisan ideology. I will sleep tonight knowing that Corey Stewart and John Stirrup’s last stand has ended.
Thank you to everyone who spoke out on this issue, whether for or against the Resolution, whether for or against the change that was made tonight. I actually had some friendly conversations with people who supported the Resolution. Overall, the mood was much more civil, even neighborly, than the spectacle in October. I saw glimmers of the community that we once were before we became so divided. I get the feeling that many people, including some HSM members, would like to stop fighting and move on.
Some questions remain.
1) Will this change be enough to help Prince William County avert economic consequences of the Immigration Resolution that have already begun to set in?
2) Will immigrant communities, both documented and undocumented, and the net economic benefit they bring with them return to our county?
3) Will the reputation of Prince William County be restored, allowing us to successfully compete with other counties in the DC Metro area for new businesses and new investment?
Only time will tell. But this is an encouraging and significant step.
you didnt read the fine print, you should because “police discretion” is still there is which essentially probable cause. Looks to me and to your favorite washington post that the resolution has “stiffened” not sure if I think stiffened is the word to use but in any case it looks like a word shuffle here. I would suspect operations will be as normal tomorrow as they were today.
Will Corey Stewart’s chances at moving into another elected position ever be restored after this vote? He wanted took John Stirrups proposal and made it his own. Now he and Stirrup vote with the rest of the board to save face.
I have a question on the term “arrested”. When is someone officially under arrest?
Lastly, I want to thank all those persons who were able to make it out tonight. I wasnt able to make it because of other obligations but I am grateful to all those who did make it. Thank you all.
Wanted to comment on “Bruce’s” hot aired attempted spin on the other site.
No Bruce, the scope of the resolution was not increased. During the General Assembly session, legislation was passed that would require anyone under arrest to have their immigration status checked. The PWC resolution just echoes this. Someone must be under arrest to have their immigration status checked.
What Bruce doesn’t understand is that with probable cause, there was a thin protection blanket. Discrimination based on someone’s ability to speak English or establishing they are foreign born, while still wrong, is legal. Pulling out the probable cause terminology and replacing it with “officer discretion” is ripe ground for lawsuits. RIPE.
3-1 Bruce. My count was off earlier, I thought we were including the General Assembly session.
Admin,
STOP YELLING!
Hey, If you missed the MWB crowd at the BOCS, you can catch them tomorrow in DC. They’ve changed their shirts from green to red this year. I guess it’s a fashion thing. I don’t see why they just don’t add white and green and be done with it! Seriously, it was rather dramatic the total lack of Spanish speakers at the BOCS. Flashback to 1980.
Anonimo,
Get over it! They aint comin back. Move your act to some other state. The citizens have spoken, and if this comes up again, then the citizens time will only get shorter until it’s no longer an issue. Trust me if we are confused I don’t think an illegal is going to take any chances when they can just stay in Fairfax or wherever.
an arrest is when you are read your rights..otherwise you are “detained”. when you are given a citation you are technically being arrested…lawyers (or homegrown ones) debate!!!
I love the MJM article that said everyone was split, I was there didnt seem like a “split” to me…about 3/4 of the people that spoke were for the rule of law resolution..I counted.
Spin it anyway you like. You are irrelevant anymore. Back to the kitchen, girls.
Thank GOD this place will no longer be such a police state! And yes, I’m please Mr. Covington came around to serve those of us in the middle.
I am also glad he voted for the cameras. I think if this has not yet passed, it needs to be a focus for those who want to protect police officers and the county from lawsuits. We should also make sure Mr. Stewart lives up to his promise that he will give the police whatever they need to carry out this resolution.
For those of us concerned that the next part of the resolution has not been rescinded–the denying of essential health benefits for the mentally ill, the disabled and elderly–please take a stand here or contact me directly. Remember, this part of the resolution is still on the table.
[email protected]
This is a very personal and global concern of mine since my children and I have disabilities and the county has been charged with caring for vulnerable populations (source: Rita Koman, George Mason University’s Osher Lifelong Learning Institute).
SA, the “citizens” have never spoken in unison the way you state. FAIR has spoken. Our little hate-group lobbyists, GL, CS, and JS have spoken and invited the community to join in their efforts to turn this place into a vindictive hell-hole. Don’t pretend emails from other states and counties “count” here in Prince William. Take your ideas to Congress, where we will be taking ours. That’s where they belong.
Now now kgotthardt, remember what admin said at the BOCS. It’s the Other that call people names and such. That never goes on here now does it. Sorry that some have different opinions, but that’s life. If you want to see what a ‘hell-hole’ looks like, then visit down town LA. Luckily I think we have successfully avoided that ever happening here!
Geez talk about spin. The scope of the resolution was expanded not reduced. I do agree with the fact that they are now required to ask everyone about their legal status, but if anything, the resolution now gives officers more power to do this, not less. You guys are 0 for 4 now and giving it the ‘ole liberal spin isn’t going to change that fact. The citizens want law and order and equal treatment for all. We are sick and tired of the double standard that had existed for illegal aliens until the resolution came about. Commit a crime, drive without a license, pee on a 7-11 wall and you are going back home to whence you came. If I had my way we would start with the employers first in a month long dragnet of arrests and business confiscations, but I guess that would look bad to corporate America…
They are Fairfax and Arlington’s problem now. Enjoy!
park’d that’s not spin. First, this change requires an actual arrest to check immigration status. This means the threat of racial discrimination has been reduced, which is what some of us have been whining about. Second, it’s a statement to those who do things like peeing on a wall will less likely do so–though I’m not sure how many arrests there will be for things like this. I saw a guy peeing right in the open on Wellington because there was a traffic jam on the way to Nissan Pavilion. A few yards away was a cop turning his/her head.
This is the time to move to better community action and assimilation attempts. Explain to these “peeing” guys that’s not what we do here. Explain to homeless people where they need to go for help so they won’t be living in the woods. Get addicts help because addiction is a disease. Coordinate community clean-ups and a neighborhood watch (not a neighborhood lynching…please make the distinction). Talk to neighbors about problems like parking. There are so many better ways to handle community problems than pinning them on “illegals” and orchestrating a with hunt via a hate group.
SA, to me a hell hole is a place where hatred, discrimination, bigotry and lack of respect for other human beings runs rampant and is supported by government and organized groups. So I guess we have different definations.
Hell holes are not places where local community action can fix most problems and make the place friendlier and cleaner.
Anyone know what happened to the Manassas Daycare Center program?
I think some serious credit needs to be given to Supervisor May. From what I saw last night, he was the one running back and forth making the deal. Good Work Mike! Glad to see that you have finally stepped out of Corey’s shadow and in to the light.
I am tired of fighting. The reality as that Frank would not have voted for a change that would have made the resolution worse Park’d. There is no logic in that statement. If officers are “mirroring” what the VA assembly passed, by asking the status of everyone only AFTER they have been arrested, that is clearly different than a general “probably cause” directive.
SA, you know, maybe it’s because I’m tired, but you seem to have no interest in real dialogue anymore, just very immature commentary. No one here, as far as I can tell, has ever aligned themselves with a group that believes we should have no border control. In fact, I would add, the core of posters here, has suggested that we increase our border protection, south AND north. However, in addition to better protection, there also needs to be a in depth discussion about the change our immigration policy should see. I have added, we need to go even further, to help address the economic crisis our southern border neighbors are facing, because that is where the real issue lies.
I think Annabel said it best last night, we need to move beyond the illegal vs legal, stop requiring people to “choose” sides, and elevate the conversation to move towards solutions that encompass fiscal and humane solutions.
Animom,
I agree, Mike was really wonderful. I’m sure it was hard, knowing Corey was backed up against a wall on this one, but Mike did what he knew was right. This change was the compromise that allowed the other Supervisors to get on Board, Corey was not going to have it his way this time.
You know Animom, I don’t feel particulary happy today, I feel, almost sad in a way. The community has been ripped apart, ugly racisim was allowed to rear its ugly head in public, and Corey, who had potential to be a really positive leader, failed in that endeavor when he aligned himself with Greg. I hope now we can begin a healing process and focus on dealing with the very serious issues facing this county. Like the forclosure crisis, empty shopping centers, transportation, land use issues, and parks and open space.
Talk about positive directions to move towards:
We are pleased to invite you to Part of Our Community: A Policy Discussion on Creating and Maintaining a Sense of Belonging. Communities in both the United States and Europe are examining ways to integrate new immigrant groups into their schools and social institutions, while balancing community concerns and maintaining a feeling of solidarity within communities.
MPI is pleased to host Geoff Mulgan, Director of the Young Foundation, a center for social innovation based in London. The Young Foundation has been developing a theoretical and empirical framework to discover what it takes to incorporate new immigrant communities while preserving a sense of belonging for older communities as newcomers arrive. Specifically, the Young Foundation has engaged in a study of life in London’s East End, one of the most diverse places and most divided communities in Britain. The Young Foundation analyzed the tension existing along class and ethnic lines and investigated policy failures.
The issue of belonging is at the heart of European politics and Mr. Mulgan will explain how getting this wrong fuels support for far-right parties, as well as extremist politics within immigrant communities.
We hope you will be able to join us for this breakfast briefing on Monday, May 5, from 8:30 – 9:30 am. The event will be held in the MPI Conference Room, 1400 16th Street, NW, Suite 300, (Third Floor), Washington, DC.
Geez, how could I forget to add overcrowded schools!
MSF are the ones around PWC wanting open borders. The posters on here haven’t said they want open boarders. Remember, we are all individuals, and is there really a need to belong to a “group”?
The time has come for us as a community to work TOGETHER.
To add to that:
The Migration Policy Institute is an independent, nonpartisan, nonprofit think tank dedicated to the study of the movement of people worldwide.
If you have any questions, please contact Lisa Dixon via email at [email protected] or by phone at (202) 266-1929.
Elena,
Right, neither side has any “big victory” to claim today. The only thing we should be fighting for right now is moving PWC forward. I didn’t see your post.
Ruby,
I agree, it’s time to work together. Valley Girls invite sounds very interesting. D.C. will be very difficult to get to though. I wonder if this isn’t something PWC should try to do here! Let’s get pro-active this time.
PW County – as you can see, this is a global issue. Now is the perfect time to start to develop community based integration programs. All of this amazing momentum could really be used to rise out of the rubble created by the Help Save groups and instead become a model for inclusion, after all, you do have the attention of so many similar communities nationwide.
Although I am limited in time I did start a 501(c)(3) in the past focused on immigrant integration and would be happy to give a presentation on what that entails and some of the programs that were developed.
My question does anyone really understand what happened last night?
I see one report “crack down stiffens” and another “crack down weakens”. I wonder if our supervisor really understand themselves.
Monday, sounds very interesting. I especially like the non-partisan part. Sounds like a place for those with Independent minds.
[I asked a question in the previous thread after the vote last night, but it looks like everyone’s reading this one now, so I’m re-posting here. Hope somebody can answer my questions!]
Anyone know how the budget vote tonight went regarding the Boys and Girls Detention Center and the Manassas Senior Day Care Center? I saw the vote pass for RIFfing county staff, but was it the full complement of 85?
I’m guessing with the .97 tax rate, most everything that was proposed to be cut was cut. Other than not funding cameras in cruisers (which weren’t in the original mark-up, were they?), how do the modifications to the resolution save us any money? And, if money is being saved, was it reallocated to save any social services that were on the chopping block?
They ran through the budget vote in hurry once they came back from that lengthy recess — such a hurry that it’s hard to know exactly what happened.
The decal vote, for example. Mr. Gerhart suggests raising it to $34 to fund the transportation bond that voters approved. Marty Nohe makes a motion for $34, saying that transportation was a priority for him and, since 82% of PWC residents voted for it, he thought the funding had been delayed long enough.
But that motion was defeated, and went Stewart asked for another motion, somebody (Caddigan?) suggested $24, which passed easily but doesn’t fully fund the transportation CIP. Gerhart looked totally confused, as was I! Why didn’t they for a decal fee somewhere between $24 and $34? Why go right from the high down to the low without making a counter in between?
I honestly can’t make head nor tails of what went down tonight. I do know that our school budget took another hit to the tune of some $5 million dollars.
Ruby, from what I read it appears as thought the “probable cause” standard has been ended – meaning officers are not mandated to check for immigration status if probable cause indicates a person is in the country illegally UNLESS they are arrested.
So, what does this mean? Is a traffic stop an arrest?
Remember, in an earlier thread, I explained that if an illegal alien (or undocumented if you prefer) is stopped by police and determined not to have a driver’s license, that person will be arrested and brought before a magistrate. Under the new interpretation, that persons immigration status would be checked because they were arrested. But a Citizen who committed the same offense could also be arrested and brought before a magistate. But which person would be released on a bond? Would the illegal status of the one person necessitate a visit from ICE? My point is that even with the change, there are still a great number of incidents in which a slight encounter with police will place the person with illegal or undocumented status in physical custody.
There are a lot of questions and they will be answered by what policies or regulations the police will now follow.
If that “lengthly recess” the BOCS called for dinner was in fact a meeting to discuss and resolve County issues out of the sight of the public, it may be a violation of the law.
If I had my way we would start with the employers first in a month long dragnet of arrests and business confiscations
Here! Here! I’ll stand by that ANYDAY. Time to put the spotlight on cheap labor proponents and beneficiaries and make them PAY.
I am very pleased with the responsible decision made by the board. I don’t think anyone supports “real” criminals living amongst us. If someone is arrested, their status will be checked at the jail. I do agree that people without licenses should not be driving. I am just glad the “probable cause” portion was the part that was backed away from. It made no good fiscal sense especially if they did not want to fund the cameras.
I am on the frontlines of this battle. My home in the park has lost 50% of its value mostly due to illegal aliens or those who depended on illegal alien borders to pay their mortgages abandoning their homes. Nowhere in the area or probably in the country has been hit as hard in this housing fiasco than Manassas Park. How they have managed to keep this a secret from the rest of the country is beyond me.
I know my next door neighbors are harboring illegals and renting to borders. I see strangers coming and going at weird times, people that accidentally knock on my door thinking it’s me that is renting them a room and they speak no English. The neighbors are very good and pious people which is why I have taken no action against them, that and frankly I am scared of getting someone much worse moving in after them. I fear one day that they will rent to the wrong person and will end up hurt or dead. They bought that house at its peak value though and they have lost about 170k so I know they have to be hurting. Every day I worry about them foreclosing and then having a crappy lowclass renter moving in via section 8 housing to replace them which seems to be what is happening in my neighborhood after each home forecloses. A slumlord buys it on the cheap and then rents to a family of lowclass thugs who party and let their kids run wild.
I honestly don’t know what the solution is, but this lawlessness has gone on for far too long. The park is flat out broke and is criminal in its overinflation of tax assessments this year in order to keep its head above water for another year and maintain its charter viability. It’s just not fair to ask the tax payers to foot this bill any longer and people are sick of it. The employers are the ones that I would go after, but the BOCS are too weak kneed to do that to their benefactors.
I know you antibvbl’ers just want to do what you think is right, but don’t you see that doing that has destroyed the lives of many American citizens for the past 5 years? People have lost their livelihoods because they can’t compete with cheap labor, they have lost most of the value in their homes due to overcrowding, trash, blight, cultural conversion and everything else that goes along with illegal immigration. They have lost everything that they worked hard for their whole lives. Until you are in this situation then I just don’t think you are qualified to talk about this issue and to pass judgment on those of us who are and have been dealing with this.
I just thought I would let you know where people like Greg and I and many others are coming from. We are not racists or xenophobes or bigoted or mean-spirited or whatever flavor of the day term is used. We are average normal people who have suffered greatly due to this issue. I just don’t think any of you here can understand unless you lose everything like we have.
LuckDuck,
I told a friend last night. The key was stopped and arrested. Thank you for your thoughts. I didn’t see your prior post, sorry. We now need to hear from Chief Deane on the matter next.
I prefer Illegal Alien btw.
park’d, you spoke eloquently above, even though I don’t agree with you. I continued reading because you said your neighbors are good and pious people, and you sounded sincere. But a sticking point for me is your hyperbole, such as:
….but don’t you see that doing that has destroyed the lives of many American citizens for the past 5 years? People have lost their livelihoods because they can’t compete with cheap labor, they have lost most of the value in their homes due to overcrowding, trash, blight, cultural conversion and everything else that goes along with illegal immigration…”
It’s like you are so frustrated that you are blaming everything on illegal immigration, as a scapegoat. Do you really think that none of this would happen if illegal immigration didn’t exist?
It may not have anything to do with racism or bigotry for you, but after a steady diet of reaading bvbl, one can’t help but conclude that.
Is anyone else troubled that Corey effectively threw our children and police under the bus? He made a motion for a .987 tax rate that would have allowed the PWC Police to hire the 7 add’l officers they asked for (+1 FT civilian) AND given an addition $5 million to the schools “to spend however they wish.” But ONLY if he got his damn cameras. No cameras = no money for schools and no more police hires. Well, his motion failed.
Why didn’t anyone push back on this?? Why didn’t another supervisor say no to him? How about, “Mr. Stewart, we’re not funding the cameras, but I make a motion to give the schools $5 million in additional funding, and Chief Deane and the PWC Police seven additonal officers.” I don’t know the tax rate that would have been necessary, but it certainly would have been lower than .987 because we woudn’t have had to fund cameras!
WHY DIDN’T THAT HAPPEN? I wished we could have seen that motion, with a second, followed by discussion and a vote. All Supervisors going on record on what, exactly, they see as the real priorities.
Instead, Principi’s .97 motion also failed and the next thing we know, the BOCS recesses for 90 minutes, then returns and rushes through a .97 tax rate without funding for cameras, money for schools or additional firefighters.
Did any supervisors advocate for our schools and our police during that recess? Maureen Caddigan said she wished there could have been more funding for schools. Well, Maureen, there very well could have been if a motion had been made for a tax rate that would have given the schools $5 million and the Police their additional officers!
This is a back room deal that stinks to high heaven.
I’d rather have had the .987 tax rate Corey proposed that would have funded cameras, schools and the police hires.
I fail to comprehend why we’re congratulation the BOCS, and Supervisors May and Nohe in particular, for this deal.
Marty’s posted here before. I’d love it if he’d return and explain exactly how and why this deal came to be.
Park’d,
I think you are extending an olive branch and I appreciate your efforts. On the other hand, if I may be blunt, I would prefer you speak for yourself and not say ‘Greg and I.’ I do not feel you and Greg are both coming from the same place.
I am not sure if you do understand this, we are not all coming from the same place here. For example, I expect KG and I are very often not in the same camp politically or perhaps even on this issue. Yet we both exist peacefully on the same blog. We have never exchanged any uncivil or unpleasant dialogue. Quite to the contrary. THAT is the difference between how things work here and how they work over at the old home place. Neither of us have screamed that the other is a LIBERAL DEM ILLEGAL ALIEN APOLOGIST MORON.
Are we all a kind and gentle folk? Ha! Not on your life, as some folks who came here to SUS (stir up S^&*) have found out.
I realize you are in a bad living situation because your house has flip-flopped. You are trapped and cannot do anything about it. I also realize you are frustrated by this situation and perhaps you say things that do get your branded as a racist. (I can think of a few choice comments you have made) I also do not know what is really in your heart. Suggestion: describe the behavior rather than calling names that end up hurting your point.
Peace and good will and an olive branch for you….(where is medic when I need him to wing-ding me an olive branch??)
Park’d,
Thank you for sharing in way that I can actually “hear” you. I can empathize, but I wonder, what has affected you so personally in your neighbhorhood really sounds like a cultural clash. What if,lets just suppose for a moment, immigration status was adjusted and people had a path to legalization because the McCain plan were to pass. I think that Valley Girl’s suggestion, to reach out to organization with no political objective, would be a great place to start.
I have talked about my neighborhood in centreville saw dramatic changes in the span of 7 years, although it was not hipanic, the demographic change was mostly Indian and Pakistani. The issues were not exactly the same, no “border” houses, but most of the the issues were identical. It just took reaching out to neighbors and starting a dialogue.
Would you be interested in reaching out to this organization to see if we could get them to come to PWC?
I hear you Park’d. I don’t agree with all you have said, but I know where you’re coming from. As a fellow MP resident, I’ve seen the overcrowded homes that were overnight left vacant and now sit idly on our street. Two more homes went to auction last week. The trash, the neglect of the home, the plethora of cars, the disrespectful children, the cars on the lawn, the parties, shall I go on? And where I live we DO have a HOA…
Now our property is valued hundreds of thousands of dollars less, but the local government doesn’t care – they’re assessing it 100K above the independent assessment so they can rake in the tax money to fund the orgy of spending they have undertaken for their new “old town” (which is a joke within itself…would you buy a condo next to a repo lot and construction vehicle rental place?).
We haven’t lost everything, but we’re damn near the bottom…
Park’d,
I can sympathize with your situation, but with all due respect, where you are is not where Greg is coming from. Truly, you’ve seen his blog. Look at the things he’s said about people, not just on the illegal immigration issue, but on most issues. Not just negative, but vicious, hateful, personal attacks and stereotypes litter his posts. It really is disgusting. An open and respectful dialogue on the problems you face in your community could have resulted in constructive, meaningful change not just for your community, but for similar ones. Instead, however, a number of people in your situation chose to align themselves with Greg and his vicious, partisan, personal attack approach to things, giving cover to a lot of bigotry. Take Elena up on her offer.
park’d,
I am glad to see you here. I’ve always sympathized with your situation in the Park. My neighborhood has improved with citizen involvement. I know this is not something that typically happens in the Park these days. I live at “ground zero” if you will. I am and have been very passionate and vocally in this debate. Do you belong to HSM? If not, then why allign yourself with Greg in your comments. Remain true to YOURSELF. I suggest sticking to what you are faced with in you area. I love the idea of biapartisan group. You should really think about it. Name calling and insults ony result in loss of credibility. I think you want change in your area. I have certainly toned my comments.
Statement of Equality Prince William regarding 4/29 Board of Supervisors Meeting
Dear Prince William County Board of Supervisors,
I’m writing to you regarding the ongoing discussion about the impact, effects, and cost of the recent immigration resolution. While we at Equality Prince William don’t really have a dog in this hunt, we are aware that many of the same people who are spearheading this resolution and its enforcement are and have continually been the same people who demonize and demagogue gay and lesbian individuals and families as well. It’s been a common observance throughout history that folks who are bigoted towards one group of people rarely stop at that group, and that appears to be playing out here.
We urge you to be mindful of these realities and take great care in how your actions affect Prince William County’s ability to attract and retain a diverse community of taxpayers, businesses, and employees.
Sincerely,
Brian W. Pace
President, Equality Prince William
http://www.equalityprincewilliam.org
Equality Prince William is a non-partisan organization formed to address equal rights issues for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender individuals (GLBT) from a local, Greater Prince William County perspective. We are committed to creating an organization that reflects the diversity of the Greater Prince William community and building relationships with business and civic groups, community leaders, and our elected leadership.
Park’d,
Glad to see you! 🙂
Okay, the idea of a biapartisan group, wasn’t that the concept of HSM? The Umbrella? I think it is best to stay Independent but work together
Now that the law has been changed, let’s be gracious and allow Chairman Stewart to save a little face. If Gospel Greg wants to declare victory for Corey, let him. The minions over there thanking him profusely and we’re all better off for it. Wouldn’t you prefer these people are satisfied with the outcome and go back to their ordinary lives?
Corey’s confusing statement is true indeed:
“Every single person who is arrested will have their immigration status checked. Officers will continue to have the discretion to check the status of anyone detained by them, even for minor infractions.”
Those who need to see a victory for the “Rule of Law” Resolution can do so. What harm is that? The rest of us know that people who brought to jail ALREADY have their immigration status checked, here, and all over the U.S., and have had for a long time.
And, it is not against the law to ask someone if they are undocumented, here, and all over the U.S. It has never been against the law to ask. But now, our Police Officers are no longer instructed to ask some people and not others. This is big.
It means Prince William County is now back in the fold, legally and morally.
Those who cannot, or choose not to prove legal presence (if the officer decides to ask), will not be carted off to jail unless they’ve robbed a bank or punched somebody, which means the “worst of the worst” will be taken care of, while the soccer moms and great uncles who don’t have their papers yet are in a lot less jeopardy of being deported before they do. This is a victory for justice, and anyone who cares about justice knows it.
So why the spin? Well, I refer back to my Iraq War analogy. If President Bush were to admit the occupation of Iraq was a huge mistake and apologize to the world, the 20 percent of Americans who still support him would abandon him too. Same goes with Gospel Greg’s “army.” If any of them wipe the sand out of their eyes, they’ll be angered by what they see. But they like the sand in their eyes. Let them keep it. If not, Corey and Greg lose face. Stirrup and Covington lose face. But what would we gain? Zilch.
There’s nothing more dangerous than a disgruntled gang of vigilantes feeling powerless and defeated.
So I suggest that we leave the Cult of Gospel Greg alone in their bubble. Don’t argue with them about who “won” last night. The fact of the matter is that the people of Prince William County, and indeed the whole nation, won last night. Even those who don’t know it yet (and hopefully never will).
To answer my own question in an earlier post, the BOCS did vote to shut down the juvenile group homes and the Manassas Senior Day Care center:
http://www.gainesville-times.com/news/2008/apr/29/board_sets_tax_rate/
I guess I don’t share the joy most of you are expressing about the repeal of the probable cause provision. From my perspective, one of the benefits of revamping the resolution is that it would have freed up money in the budget for schools, additional police, the senior day care and juvenile group homes, plus parks and transportation. Clearly, that did not happen.
I’m angry that Corey went on record that he would only support a tax increase (98.7 cents) for our schools and police if it included funding for cruiser cameras. Still, four Supervisors voted to support that motion because it would have meant money for police officers and $5 million more for the schools. When it failed, and I ask this again, why was there no compromise motion made that would have funded the schools and add’l police w/o the cruiser cameras? Surely one more supervisor could have been persuaded to support that had there been a PUBLIC discussion before the vote.
I’m feeling awfully a lot like a square peg trying to squeeze into the round hole that is the county. If we could sell our house and move elsewhere, we would. Dropping the Probable Cause provision in the Rule of Law Resolution did nothing to help fund our schools, police, neighborhood services, transportation projects (and apologies to the 82% of you who voted to fund that bond), senior day care and juvenile group home.
There’s not a supervisor on that board I would ever vote for again, not even Marty.
Red Dawn:
When someone as partisan as Greg L is the founder and first president of an organization, all claims of non-partisanship go out the window. This is not a knock on Greg. It’s just the reality that having someone who is active in partisan politics, whose blog sprang forth from a partisan event (Steve Chapman’s political bid), and who actively and vocally supports conservative Republican causes and candidates is the key force in creating the organization, it can’t be bipartisan. Those who don’t agree with Greg personally on other issues were probably loathe to get involved with him at HSM (I know I never wanted to attend a meeting because I knew my politics and Greg’s are diametrically opposed on nearly every issue with a small bit of commonality on the high level idea the illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be addressed). Even those who were less partisan than Greg who did join HSM were never really given a voice. HSM quickly devolved from a bipartisan, grassroots effort to be all about Greg. Take a look at the April Fools edition of the Front Line. You can tell a lot about an organization by what it finds funny. Note how all of the “jokes” in this parody edition deal with Greg being honored or recognized far and wide.
Turn PW Blue,
I will take a look. I am just going on the RECORD to say, that I will not join a group. I have learned my lesson that it is better to be accountable for myself and speak my thoughts and words. With any group, you cannot control what others say or do. I don’t like that ball and chain idea. IMHO 🙂 Free Bird, lol.
Redawn,
Individuals working together is the key. No one said join the bipartisan group, just hear them out.
deport them all, now. then we wont be discussing this any further.
TPWB,
You nailed it. I also don’t think most knew what a die hard Republican he was. I would say a good majority were attracted to HSM as it was originally portrayed as bipartisan. And it is anything but that. Thanks for your words of wisdom.
Casual,
I do understand why you are saying. I am not jumping for joy, but it is a start to begin working on solving problems in reasonable way and moving the Board away from the rhetoric.