ABC News 7 Report concerning the changes made to the ‘Immigration Resolution’ which will now check status of only those arrested and do away with the ‘probable cause’ part of the resolution.
104 Thoughts to ““Prince William Scales Back Illegal Immigration Crackdown””
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Ed, Elvis, et al,
Not once, can I recall, any of you even attempting a dialogue about solutions. All you do is wait to see what comment you can pounce on and demean someone posting here. If I were face to face, having this conversation with you, I would say this, “when you want to talk about the issues that are of concern to me, I would love to talk, but until that time comes, I don’t think we have much to discuss”. Greg was the reason the anti blog was started, to give reason and “voice” to those were silenced on his blog. But more than that, we wanted to be able to have a discussion that would take into account the totality of our broken immigration policy. We wanted to be able to take into account that you cannot reduce any person to simple labels. Maybe you guys should find something else to do with you spare time.
Mando said on 1 May 2008 at 3:13 pm:
You guys are certainly a paranoid lot. I seriously think some of you should be on meds. You’re beginning to scare me.
Kenneth said……hummmwho scares you the most big fella? Alanna, Elena, Marie, Kay…..yeah they are really scary………but only when they have truth and justice on their side…..and REALITY!!!
elvis said on 1 May 2008 at 5:39 pm:
if you have legitimate proof of a threat of bodily harm then by all means call the police, it’s what I would do. But it looks to me like your blowing smoke and I dont believe it either unless you can submit legitimate proof (here and on this board) then I wont believe a word of what you are saying, katherine. put your money where your mouth is
Kenneth said – I think you need to go back and read some of this stuff…..like the guy above who says they should come to the next BOCS meeting and ready to have at it!!! Just what do you think that means????
Luckyduck said on 1 May 2008 at 6:18 pm:
Kgotthardt….if they failed to show up for an ICE hearing, that is documented evidence of a person disregarding a court summons so PWC will not release them again.
Oh THAT I understand, Lucky. Not showing up to court IS an arrestable offense. I hope none of the people being deported are just people with speeding tickets or something, however. That’s just not right. I still think the Mexican Consultate should come help their people fix their immigration problems. Maybe I can write to THEM and a few other consulates next. LOL.
elvis said on 1 May 2008 at 4:02 pm:
so if you liberal moonbat nutjobs scare me (and you do) so I should have each and every one of you arrested? this is getting pretty retarded in here.
Kenneth said – hummm” liberal, moonbat, nutjob, retarded” well you are one cool guy – whatta vocab……..wacko!!!!
Thanks, Ken! I have big “hueva” to even respond to those people. Thanks for doing it for me. : )
Hello,
Clearly people of all cultures have different views. So I can not, nor would I, speak for all Jewish people. However, the ADL, a well respected organization, has made clear connections to vitriolic anti illegal/anti immigrant rhetoric. I don’t think I would call them anti-semitic!
http://www.adl.org/Civil_Rights/immigration.asp
“YES, you can be arrested for a traffic ticket! If the officer has reason to believe that the person will disregard the summons and not appear in court” LuckyDuck, what would make an officer believe the person wouldn’t show up for court?
Thanks for reminding the “Elvis” gang, Elena. : ) I don’t try to speak for Jewish people, just to make it clear. I speak through my perceptions and understanding. I doubt the ADL would appreciate GL calling out to his pal, “Hey Nazi!” in front of the Rabbi on April 22.
# Luckyduck said on 1 May 2008 at 6:16 pm:
Are you sure? I ask because I was looking into that and can’t find anything except a House Bill (HB104) that entered committee (Jan 2008) but didn’t get anywhere. I believe you can be arrested for a suspended or revoked license though.
Just askin’.
Yes, Es la ley…if that person has no driver’s license and
1. has been charged with that before.
2. Has no other, valid or acceptable ID with them.
They can be arrested and brought before a magistrate.
Kgotthardt…the above would give the officer believe they would not show up in court. In addition to failing to appear in ANY court for ANY reason in the past. This is easily checked by the officer through their computers in their cars.
Where most undocumented will run into trouble is driving without a license and being stopped. They typically do not have a US government or State issued ID to prove to the Officer who they are, so they will be physically arrested and hence, have their status checked.
Hey, thanks, Lucky. I think you must be our resident lawyer or cop : )
I neither claim either nor disavow neither…best to keep people guessing.
i’m jewish so I had to look back at KG’s remarks, although I would hesitate to admit, I didnt see any anti-semetic remarks although she does like to sling the “nazi” word around I have to assume she is ignorant in the actual meaning of this thus give her a pass.
as far as kenneth, if anyone is a fool it is you sir. I’ve seen some of your remarks and they do not do justice to a person who proclaims to be learned on worldly affairs.so your words do not hold water with me.
as far as KG…She’s pretty brutal and that’s a total turnoff to someone wanting to have a debate. mention of the “otherside” and “anti” tells me this blog was created just to battle with greg, not to discuss any real issues like educated and mature people should. it’s so easy to bait this crowd, just like it is to bait the bvbl folks although they seem to be less reactive than you people. Yes, i’m a professional troll but to be honest I’m more in line with immigration reform than flat out deportation of everyone. I’ll have to say that you all (I’m being general here) make your case far worse by opening your mouth.
kgotthardt,
I agree with you, all those that think like Greg should be arrested!
call the FBI
THANKS!
TRIBAL
Elena said…
Clearly people of all cultures have different views. So I can not, nor would I, speak for all Jewish people. However, the ADL, a well respected organization, has made clear connections to vitriolic anti illegal/anti immigrant rhetoric. I don’t think I would call them anti-semitic!
Once again Elena, I didn’t call anyone anit-Semitic, I said that it was anti-Semitic behaviour. (you know, to offend Jewish people again and again and then your told by a Jewish person that it offends them… and you do it again and again) The ADL isn’t directly calling people Nazi’s like KG does on a regular basis.
Elena said… Not once, can I recall, any of you even attempting a dialogue about solutions.
I use to try to offer my suggestions and ideas but I quit posting about a few weeks ago after Kenneth called me a racist for supporting the resolution. I’m back though and ready to be more constructive in my comments.
Good Lord. I’ve told you why I say GL is a “Nazi.” If you’d like me to be more specific, I think he’s a “NEO-Nazi,” okay? He ACTS like a SKINHEAD! Hello? You know, those guys that shave their heads, dress in army fatigues and walk around spouting off about “our culture” and white supremacy? That would be YOUR buddy, GL. Ain’t nothing anti-Semitic about it.
As far as offering solutions, I’ve done it again and again and again and again ad nauseum. Elvis, what would you like to discuss? Everything we’ve posted under “solutions”? Everything I’ve posted in my blog under “immigration”? Everything I’ve said in the WP and PN/MJM online and in my editorial? Everything I’ve said at the county meetings? Every conversation I’ve ever had live with people who don’t agree with me? My God, man, how many times do you want me to repeat myself? My kids aren’t even this bad.
The resolution is posted on the county website:
http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=010011001170002294
“Ain’t nothing anti-Semitic about it.” That is in my saying he’s a “Neo-Nazi” or something like it. There probably IS something anti-Semitic about being a Neo-Nazi.
Hello,
I wasn’t referring to you. I think what I see happening on the blog is a challenge for us all, including me, to remember that we want to promote open dialogue, especially with those who have opposing views. I would not call everyone who supports the resolution racist. People feel they have legitimate concerns, we will never get to the problem solving staget is we can’t begin to understand each others views. My concern is that the debate has been hijacked by organizations like FAIR and NUMBERS USA. Many people are not even aware that these organizations are really one in the same. I see their “talking points” driving the discussion and that concerns me. Do you know the Cave Allegory by Plato? What is a real problem regarding immigration and what is not? Is there propoganda at play that makes it difficult to distinguish between fact and myth? There are many schools of throught regarding economic impact. Which one is right? How DO we know what the truth really is?
corr: problem solving stage if we……
lvis said on 1 May 2008 at 7:23 pm:
i’m jewish so I had to look back at KG’s remarks, although I would hesitate to admit, I didnt see any anti-semetic remarks although she does like to sling the “nazi” word around I have to assume she is ignorant in the actual meaning of this thus give her a pass.
as far as kenneth, if anyone is a fool it is you sir. I’ve seen some of your remarks and they do not do justice to a person who proclaims to be learned on worldly affairs.so your words do not hold water with me.
as far as KG…She’s pretty brutal and that’s a total turnoff to someone wanting to have a debate. mention of the “otherside” and “anti” tells me this blog was created just to battle with greg, not to discuss any real issues like educated and mature people should. it’s so easy to bait this crowd, just like it is to bait the bvbl folks although they seem to be less reactive than you people. Yes, i’m a professional troll but to be honest I’m more in line with immigration reform than flat out deportation of everyone. I’ll have to say that you all (I’m being general here) make your case far worse by opening your mouth.
KENNETH said – Elvis my man…..I DID NOT proclaim myseelf to be worldly on worldly affairs, YOU JUST NOTICED THAT I AM…..THANK YOU!!!
hello said on 1 May 2008 at 7:55 pm:
Elena said… Not once, can I recall, any of you even attempting a dialogue about solutions.
I use to try to offer my suggestions and ideas but I quit posting about a few weeks ago after Kenneth called me a racist for supporting the resolution. I’m back though and ready to be more constructive in my comments.
Kenneth said….i doubt that i called you that…i dont talk like that….the closest i come to it is that the resolution accomplishes NOTHING exccept strike fear in certain people – and anyone who wants to do that…..well, you draw your own conclusions…if idid outright call you that, i certainly apologize…
Elena said: “My concern is that the debate has been hijacked by organizations like FAIR and NUMBERS USA.”
And it hasn’t been highjacked on the other side either?
My dialogue about solutions is for no one to ever use the following terms again:
anchor baby
racist
Nazi
animal…(when referring to humans)
They are all offensive. I’m Jewish but all three terms make me cringe. Anchor baby dehumanizes little ones who had nothing to do their parents situation. They are just babies (actually baby citizens), so don’t attach labels to them that they can’t even defend. Racist is truly a strong term which is rarely appropriate for slinging at anyone unless you’re absolutely sure. To spit the name at anyone who makes a mistaken assumption about latinos is going too far.
Nazi is the most offensive to me. The Nazi party actively pursued a policy of genocide. I have not seen anyone on this site or BVBL come out and actively pursue a resolution that specifically requires the county to forceably take all latino property and valuables, make all latinos wear an identifying mark, check each person to see if they might have latino heritage in their background, put all latinos on cattle cars to work camps and eventually gas most of them. If anyone should suggest doing such the above things, then I guess you could call them a Nazi. But using it so frequently for anyone who just makes ignorant and biased statements takes away from what the Nazi’s really did.
I remember laughing with friends at the Seinfeld episode about the Soup Nazi. My grandmother sat down to watch with us and after the show , she proceeded to tell us what the real Nazis had done to her family members in Poland, while her immediate family was safe in the states. That show wasn’t so funny anymore. Her belief was that if we use the term lightly to describe people we don’t like who do or say stupid and mean things, the term will become a common slang and will cease to lose the same meaning it has for my grandmother’s generation. Once it just becomes a bad slang name, then people will forget and what happened won’t seem as real or as tragic as it truly was. There are huge groups of people out there in the world who actually believe the holocaust never happened. Slinging the term Nazi around casually only makes that idea spread. I would suggest reading
Elie Wiesel’s Night right now before anyone uses that term…and saying you read it years ago in college doesn’t count. Read it again now to put things that are happening, just and unjust, in Prince William County back into perspective.
So can we all agree not to use offensive terms and let the good dialogue flow instead of empty rhetoric?
Inon,
Excellent place to start. I agree with you about all those words. I would like to include the term ‘illegal alien apologist.’ Why? It is stupid and meaningless.
Thank you for sharing the grandmother story. Very powerful.
Inon, I might have to think about agreeing about animals. I use a lot of analogy with animals. Not all of them are evil analogies.
kenneth,
your welcome! for whatever that means. Lose the caps please, they make it seem like your shouting, do you speak like that in real life? Do you ever get your point across if you do? with caps it makes you seem upset about something, you need to relax. Im waiting to see if admin deletes this post as well as the others I have made, again just like her buddy GL does.
inon said on 1 May 2008 at 11:48 pm:
I agree, thank you for the thoughtful post.
I agree. I cringe when I see someone equate this to the holocaust and Nazism. As far as I’m concerned, anyone who brings up the name Hitler or Nazis has already lost the argument on the utterance of the comparison. Very poor taste, even for a lib.
park’d: Very well said!
inon, the Nazis didn’t start with genocide. What seed within them and their sympathizers allowed the ultimate atrocity to happen? I wonder what words and public statements came first? Sorry, I’m Eastern European Jewish, great grandparents came here fleeing pograms in Russia and Lithuania, lost family in the Holocaust, and I don’t agree with you. How are we going to ensure that it never happens again if we don’t remain vigilant? Big acts start with little seeds that are not stamped out as they sprout.
I can’t say “ensure that it never happens again”, because genocide is still happening around the world. And it’s only possible when one group of people dehumanizes the other.
Inon, sorry, but I am coming from the same place as Firedancer. Also, there are people called “Neo-Nazis.” These people fuel the same kind of hatred and ideology as Nazis. Believe me, if they could have their way, they would go for extermination. GL and people like him want illegals (and others) branded (and he’s done a great job of that without even having to do it physically) and deported. We already covered how this is a form of ethnic cleansing. I’ve used the term “Nazi” the same way Seinfeld has, but when I’m talking GL and the gang, I am very serious and respectful of the horrors people like him can cause.
Again, I don’t mean any disrespect in the least.
Here is a link where I discuss my word usage more. I also have many posts about immigration, some of which are discussion with other people who are trying to muddle through this the same way we are.
http://luxuriouschoices.blogspot.com/search?q=ethnic+cleansing
Inon and others, this might also help you:
“The term neo-Nazism refers to post-World War II ideologies, political movements, and social movements seeking to revive Nazism, or some variant that echos its aspects such as racial or ethnic nationalism or Völkish integralism. Neo-Nazis rarely use the word neo-Nazi to describe themselves, often opting for labels such as National Socialist, Nationalist or related terms.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazi
Firedancer & kgotthardt,
OKAY….NOW I am getting where you are coming from. I was very, very turned off by it like many others. I see the MEANING of the analogy…the question of which came first. The chicken or the egg.
I also see what Elena has been trying to say. I saw that a lot easier…but it is coming together, the big picture.
Someone ( sorry, I forget who) made a reference to the movie: The Wave. ( I got that point too)
I set off on a journey a little more than a year ago with an open mind. I tried to stay neutral/skeptical/open minded.
I have been through EMOTIONS that I never thought would have manifested when I was trying to be ALL those above.
In reality, ( a revelation, I am discovering) I was trying to prove to myself, that I have an open mind but only discovered that I was trying to prove what I had ALREADY believed to be right.
I am MY own worst/best critic and I can say from then, to NOW, I can admit that I was wrong in a lot of my thinking but THANK GOD that I am open minded.
The only thing that I proved to myself, was that.
This video says a lot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wEaAXAfI6Y
What is new is old to others.
THE KEY IS TO LISTEN and DISCOVER. ( even if it means over and over again)
Inon, I thought your story really spoke to everyone. We can get so tied down in minutia that we fail to communicate the big picture. I loved the grandmother story!!
Firedancer,
I totally agree that the Nazis began with dehumanizing, from everything I have ever read. Perhaps they didn’t dehumanize first. Perhaps they just made it acceptable to act rude. I remember seeing some rather rank political cartoons from the 30’s. Perhaps this type of speech was commonplace back then. I don’t know.
I use Nazi all the time. I don’t call people on blogs ‘Nazi’ but I do what Inon’s grandmother would not like. ex: which airline has the sky-Nazis as flight attendants. I never though about that being offensive until I read Inon’s post. My husband is a recycle nazi. You all get the drift.
I am talking about a way of thinking and behaving, no matter what term is used to name it. And it is far more serious, and not even in the same category of discussion, as an episode of Seinfeld.
Red Dawn, you are something else, so full of life.
A follow up to what I posted on 900Liberty and commented on @ 8:22 pm:
Note: 4:00,
This is what I used to believe and got me all festered. I have and still blame OUR FED GOV., for creating this.
We took it to the local level, it made since. (trying something different,we will all hear once in our life time the definition of insanity)
But the questions are still the same: WHO? WHAT? WHY?and WHERE?
The answer changes DAILY
I never saw the Seinfeld episode so that part remains an unknown to me.
Firedancer,
“Red Dawn, you are something else, so full of life.’
That brought TEARS to my eyes (IT REALLY DID) and I dried them up by thinking, yep, nothing wrong with thinking outside the box…LOL, think of fruit, how long will it last in the box or bag… ( shut up, other side, I hear it now..moon fruit..to be continued.oh,screw it, why wait…here is that video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLLSCLHKWPE
🙂
hey moon,
your usage of the term may seem innocuous to you, however it shows you are essentially ignorant of what it really means. I hear people do this all the time, I direct them to the holocaust museum in D.C. to find out what the term really means. I suggest you go yourself and see and ensure you tell everyone what you saw there. the word/name and what it signifies is disgusting in whatever the usage.
elvis said on 2 May 2008 at 6:51 am:
kenneth,
your welcome! for whatever that means. Lose the caps please, they make it seem like your shouting, do you speak like that in real life? Do you ever get your point across if you do? with caps it makes you seem upset about something, you need to relax. Im waiting to see if admin deletes this post as well as the others I have made, again just like her buddy GL does.
KENNETH SAID – SORRY ELVIS, I DONT INTEND TO SCREAM. I DID SCREAM IN COREY’S FACE IN CITIZENS TIME A FEW WEEKS AGO FOR MAKING DEMEANING COMMENTS ABOUT THE MINISTERS WHO WROTE HIM THAT LETTER…BUT I USE CAPS TO DINTINGUISH MY COMMENTS FROM OTHERS….I HAVE PRETTY MUCH STPOPED SCREAMING SINCE MY KIDS GREW UP (THEY LOVE ME AS ADULTS!!!)
Yes, this whole process has taught me a lot about myself and other people, how frail our society is, and how much work we still need to do.
I realize more and more I have a temper when it comes to these things. I knew it before, but I used to think it was contained to some specific things. It’s not. Knowing you’ve got a bit of a temper is important, I think. It’s important not to let the temper get in front of the reason or issues.
I have been trying to convey, for some time now, that we are clearly not talking about PWC and its actions equating to the Holocaust. However, I was taught, from a very young age, that in order to ensure another Holocaust does not happen, you must remain vigilant against all hate, even when it is not directly targeting Jewish people. The evolution of Hitler began incrementally, like a slow growing cancer. Even the German Jews kept saying, “it’s just a phase”, “this can’t possibly last, sanity will take over soon” and so they stayed until it was too late to get out. I have already seen anti-semitic posts on 9500 liberty, BVBL, and the Wash Post comment section. Most were veiled, you had to do a little research to understand the meaning behind a comment. It is incumbent, upon us all, to challenge all comments that generalize one ethnic or cultural group. Whenever we see any group being de-humanized, you cannot simply let it go with out calling it by its name, racism. As much as I would like this blog to comment only only solutions and problems, I will continue to call out racism when I see it. I will not call someone racist or a Nazi, but I will challenge comments.
Oh, Red Dawn, you continue to be a role model to all of us here, always remaining open minded. When Lucky Duck brought up the unions and the meat and poultry corporations pushing them out so immigrants could take their place, I did not know that, it was a learning moment for me and I thought of you!
“you must remain vigilant against all hate, even when it is not directly targeting Jewish people. The evolution of Hitler began incrementally, like a slow growing cancer. Even the German Jews kept saying, “it’s just a phase”, “this can’t possibly last, sanity will take over soon” and so they stayed until it was too late to get out.”
That’s right, Elena. It’s ALL of this. It isn’t saying PWC=Holocaust. It IS saying PWC is LIKE how the Holocaust BEGAIN.
And the Neo-Nazi thing IS what has formed in PWC. There’s no need for the “like” in that statement in my mind.
Thanks everyone for clarifying, and yes Red Dawn, for continuously opening our minds and making us face things we don’t always want to see.