When our forclosure rate was number one in the state, there was no place to go, BUT up.  It is important that forclosed homes are purchased, as each vacant home will cost the taxpayers $30,000.  We can all hope that with the better press regarding the modification to the “probable cause” portion of the immigration resolution,  that times will begin to turn around.  There are still tough economic times ahead for the nation as a whole with the housing crisis, but we can hope that the incredibly cheap housing in PW, not exactly what I want to be known for, will at least soften the double forclosure rate we experienced.   I have this horrible feeling though, that we were more than happy to have all these immigrants here to help build the community and now we can offer cheap housing because so many felt the need to leave their dreams behind, not wanting to live in a community enveloped in fear and hate.  Now, before some people start yellin’ about how the resolution wasn’t to blame for this mess, I agree, we would be, like the rest of the nation, suffering through the housing crisis, but PW was hit especially hard and we do know first hand stories of people leaving, legal immigrants, not wanting to reside in PW County because of the anti-Hispanic climate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/03/AR2008050301095.html

114 Thoughts to “PW Housing Market Has No Place To Go, BUT Up!”

  1. Censored bybvbl

    The resolution has done nothing to cause anyone to leave their homes. The simple fact is that without construction jobs, these people don’t pay the bills. Their entire livelihoods are based on construction, landscaping, or other odd jobs, which let’s face, have all dried up now. If there is no work then they don’t pay their bills.

    Park’d, while that may be true of your immediate neighbors, it is not the only reason people left or went into foreclosure. Some Hispanics I know lost their houses to foreclosure, are still in the community, and work at skilled jobs. Others have blended families and found the atmosphere in PWC too stressful.

  2. Not Me, Bubba

    “I was quite confused by the term ‘pro-choice’ being used in a statement about illegal immigration. That could get real Machiavellian. Glad it wasn’t just me.”

    It makes absolutely no sense….unless you’re a die-hard RWNJ. They tie everything to abortion to try and make their points fly. Thing is, the points – even if they dropped the abortion red flag, rarely make sense anyways.

    Although you will hear some rather seedy “arguments” from the anti-choice brigades tying this nation’s “need” for illegal labor to abortion. But I would rather just not go there….it’s a pit of logical fallacies that will drag you down to its dark, slimy bottom.

  3. Moon-howler

    Park’d,

    I am going to agree with you in part. I think the major cause for the mass exodus of people is J.O.B.S. They have dried up as the new housing industry has dried up.

    Where I disagree is that your citizenship keeps you here in your housing situation. I would say it is that you have a job, value your credit rating, and the reputation that all of those things give you. Perhaps I might even throw in sense of responsibility that has been a part of your value system from cradle to present as an addition reason.

    Many people, nationwide, who have walked on their house, simply haven’t had a choice. Blood out of a turnip. You aren’t in those desperate staits. Also, people who have lived transient lives don’t see the value of the credit history and job history as critically as you do.

    I believe what I am saying is that your socio-economic class is what keeps you in your home rather than your citizenship. Just an opinion. If I recall correctly, you are not a semi-skilled or low skilled worker.

  4. What is RWNJ?

    “Washington, D.C. – Anyone wondering why America’s mortgage system melted down should flip through a little-noticed government report issued last October on the financial literacy of recent mortgage customers.” This doesn’t surprise me at all, considering many of the people who got sucked into bad mortgages with the promise of the American Dream were first-time home buyers. I know I had NO idea what went into buying a home. I never thought I would even OWN a home, so that kind of education was never introduced to me.

  5. Moon-howler

    No me Bubba,

    I totally agree. I have to ask, what does RWNJ mean?

  6. Information only...

    Right Wing Nut Job!

  7. “Right Wing Nut Job!” LOL! Is that first cousin to a “Left Wing Bleeding Heart Marxist”?

  8. Not Me, Bubba

    “This doesn’t surprise me at all, considering many of the people who got sucked into bad mortgages with the promise of the American Dream were first-time home buyers. I know I had NO idea what went into buying a home. I never thought I would even OWN a home, so that kind of education was never introduced to me.”

    And then add to that – not having English proficiency, a very sketchy knowledge of finances, a home you desperately want, a RE agent who is pushing the sale on you, competition for the home from other buyers, and a loan that is bad from its inscription – and voila….nous avons un disastre….

  9. You know, I had a great professor explain the “wings” to our class (a hundred years ago it seems). He said that we should look at it like a circle, not a straight line. The right side of the circle starts out as the most radical “right wing”. As you move around the outside of circle, you get to the middle sections which are the moderates. As you move up towards the top left, you start getting more liberal. At the very top of the circle you have radical “left.” So they end at the same place: radical and probably illogical.

    I’ll never forget that because it made so much sense to me!

  10. Information only...

    I’m sure it is in some eyes. I guess it could also be called the “kissing” or “bastard” cousin. 🙂

  11. “And then add to that – not having English proficiency, a very sketchy knowledge of finances, a home you desperately want, a RE agent who is pushing the sale on you, competition for the home from other buyers, and a loan that is bad from its inscription – and voila….nous avons un disastre….” That’s right. And that’s why many ESOL and community based education classes include financial literacy. Without it, we could all end up homeless or worse.

  12. Not Me, Bubba

    “Right Wing Nut Job!” LOL! Is that first cousin to a “Left Wing Bleeding Heart Marxist”?”

    Nope. I would say it’s more like the Hatfields and McCoys…

    I don’t like using those terms, but it seemed rather apropro in this instance since being pro-choice was being equated to being pro-illegal.

  13. Moon-howler

    OHHHH silly me. Back in the day, there were other words. Thanks!!! re: RWNJ (I was thinking New Jersey)

    KG, not sure how to change your IP address. There is software out there. It bounces you to an overseas address. Many people who run websites/blogs etc block overseas IP addresses.

    Someone told me to take my system in to Circuit City or Best Buy. I was too lazy.

  14. “KG, not sure how to change your IP address.” Eh that’s fine. I’ve never had the urge to do it anyway. But someone ought to let PN know their polls are fakes. : )

  15. Not Me, Bubba

    “That’s right. And that’s why many ESOL and community based education classes include financial literacy. Without it, we could all end up homeless or worse.”

    I never once had a class on it. But I do know that on my single salary (without my husband’s) no way would I have agreed to buy a home for 300K. The numbers don’t add up, no matter how you look at it.

    While there is plenty of financial illiteracy to go around, there was also, as the article states, plenty of risk-taking by the buyers. And the fact this problem is nation-wide leads me to believe that, despite PWC’s high foreclosure numbers, we were equally fertile for a crash. I’ll not refrain from saying I think there was a fair amount fo fraud perpetuated within the local Latino community in the selling of these homes/loans.

  16. Here are some possibilites from all places on the spectrum:

    RWNJ

    “Resolution Works–NOT! Jerks.”

    “Re-Wind NOW, Justice!”

    “Reasons We Need Jesus”

    “Reasons We Need Justice”

    “Republicans Were Needlessly Jealous”

    Okay, these are silly but fun to do. We do this on the road with license plate letters.

  17. Rick Bentley

    let me test my ability to publish a response before I write up 4 paragraphs again …

  18. As to the IP address’ you change them by voting from diffrent computers. A common tactic used to slant public polls which are poorly constructed technically is to go to a Public library earily and hop from computer to computer and vote. You can also vote from your home and multiple work computers.

    IT admins can keep generating IP addresses for themselves.

    Point is NEVER believe the results of online polls they are way to easy to manipulate.

    “Ralph Wiggum Needs Jelly”

  19. Rick Bentley

    Moon-howler, my neighborhood has changed greatly. My block has 26 single-family townhouses on it. I’d say a year ago 10-15 of them housed illegal aliens, all of whom moved in during 2005-2007, with an average of maybe 10-12 people living in each unit. The neighborhood was very noisy, all times of day, lots of strange-looking people throwing furtive glances all times of day and night. No parking within about 3 blocks. Today there are maybe 1 or 2 houses still with people I think might be illegal, I can park within a block if I leave my space open for my mother-in-law, much less noise and traffic, less suspicious (and unchecked – possible burglars or child molesters) walking around especially at night, parents not scared to let their kids play outside.

    I did try as Elena says to reach out personally to my neighbors about the constant thudding music one man-child living in a small kids room was thumping through our wall, causing much stress, as well as other matters. It was always me taking the initiative, the people in the house weren’t eager to interact, but most of them were friendly and probably wanted to be decent neighbors. But not one young man. He didn’t care about my discomfort and blared the music at will, despite numerous personal pleas complete with translation to his native language. He also took to leering at our teenaged daughter. I don’t miss him. At all.

    One bad apple, yes. But if you start packing three times as many people into houses, you put 3 times as many bad apples into neighborhoods (assuming cultural equity). And it impacts people’s lives. And makes a nighborhood urban rather than suburban.

    In the end it might make people feel good to be welcoming and Christian-like but I’m not sure it’s really a positive thing for people to abandon their home countries for a quick buck, enabling the robber barons who control their countries to continue their domination, while lowering wages here and making life tougher for the middle-class people who have to sit and suffer loud music banging through walls.

    And by the way I was informed by a realtor that the house next door, now empty and on the market, looks bombed out and unsellable at this point. I don’t think xenophobia was the cause of that. I think enabling home ownership to people who don’t have pride or ownership in the house or the neighborhood is the cause of that.

  20. Elena

    Park’d,
    Even MY comments got stuck! Give admins some slack, she’s trying her best to create a new more positive atmosphere 🙂

  21. Moon-howler

    Not Me, Bubba,

    I feel very sorry for the people caught up in the foreclosure business. When someone comes along and says I can show you how you can own a home and make some money off of it (renting out a room or 2) and pay less a month than you are renting for (and rents were extremely high around here) what’s to question? It makes perfect sense.

    If the same people don’t value those things like job security, credit history, and have middle class social values (what will the neighors think fits in here too), have limited education, and on top of all that lack the overall conditioning that makes you save money in institutions rather than carrying around a wad of cash on your person, then they are prime targets for mortgage deception and failure. I sure see why they ran out on their obligations. No capital investment, as they say in politics.

  22. Bruce C Keener

    The current situation in PWC has been magnified by the BOS resolution but is not the cause. The cause is the greedy mortgage and realty companies that were willing to get people into housing over their means – most of the payments went to interest not principal (or equity). Now they just resell the homes and start the process all over. Lost money on paper, but they still have the homes which they are willing to dump at extreme low prices (some would argue a more realistic price). Thus the mortgage companies are very complicite in devaluing all of our homes. It will probably take five years or more to build appreciation in our community. Lake Ridge alone will have up to 10% total of all units in foreclosures by end of year. The folks that have left around me bought in 2005 at the peak had outrageous monthly payments before the rate adjustments kicked in. They were set up to fail by Hispanic Realty companies and interconnected finance firms.

  23. Not Me, Bubba

    “I feel very sorry for the people caught up in the foreclosure business. When someone comes along and says I can show you how you can own a home and make some money off of it (renting out a room or 2) and pay less a month than you are renting for (and rents were extremely high around here) what’s to question? It makes perfect sense. ”

    I was referring to the realtors who sold families homes, homes NOT to be “rented out” to every day laborer this side of the border. I’m speaking, mainly of the people in our nieghborhood who bought homes for such ridicuously inflated values like 450-575K on small salaries (landscapers, day laborers, etc.). Need I bring up again the WaPo article whereby an illegal alien admitted to buying a 300K townhouse for his single family (his wife & 2 kids – I think 2 kids) on a landscaper’s salary (he was NOT the owner of the company)?

    Who sold him the place and who approved his loan???? LIke I said – I believe there was some widespread fraud committed in PWC within the Latino community – crime whereby they preyed upon their own. Take a family who is getting by with odd jobs, in this country illegally (or legally – it really doesn’t matter) tell them they can have a home, no $$$$ down, and only pay say – $1000/month for a mortgage. Leave out the deatils of oh say…interest rates re-adjusting in a couple of years and voila….

    It isn’t new for immigrant communities to be exploited by their own – their own being people who have been residents for awhile, know the system and have no problems conning the newbies, or the naieve. It is very much a part of American history for ALL immigrant groups to have done this. The very people they could have trusted could have done them the most harm.

  24. Rick Bentley

    Preying on your own isn’t always illegal … but what interests me … there were flyers being handed around in Mexico telling people how to get to Manassas and PWC. Who was creating the flyers? and why? Seems to me some realtors targeted our community for takeover.

  25. Not Me, Bubba

    “there were flyers being handed around in Mexico telling people how to get to Manassas and PWC. ”

    Do you have one? I have no doubt that companies have advertised jobs in Mexico and elsewhere for tehir people to come to the US and do them. However, you have proof they’re specific to PWC?

    “Seems to me some realtors targeted our community for takeover.”

    I highly doubt that. I just happen to believe there were some who saw an opportunity to make oodles of cash and did so at the community’s expense. I don’t think there was an international conspiracy to devalue PWC real estate…

  26. Rick Bentley

    The story about the illegal aliens let go in Ohio who were on their way to Manassas was widely reported in mid-2006 … can’t remember the news source for the existence of the flyers … but do you doubt it?

  27. Not Me, Bubba

    Rick –

    I did a quick google and found a story on what you claimed. No fliers were mentioned, but they were en route to Manassas…

    http://www.wtov9.com/news/9397913/detail.html

  28. Rick Bentley

    They came, en masse, very suddenly in a way that I don’t think word-of-mouth would have caused. And were buying homes immediately. Someone had this planned. I’m not saying it was illegal – I’m just saying some subset of local realtors were marketing this as a haven for ilelgals.

  29. Elena

    Bruce C Keener said on 5 May 2008 at 11:00 am:

    Welcome Bruce! I agree 100% about the resolution and its impact on an impending housing crisis. I believe the resolution was just the proverbial, “salt to a wound”.

    Rick Bentley said on 5 May 2008 at 10:23 am:

    Thank you for sharing your very personal experience. If I had a next door neighbor leering at my daughter, no matter what their ethnicity, I would be upset. I guess, I’m just wondering, if we couldn’t attach “illegal” to very overcrowded circumstance, what could/would we do instead of the resolution? We don’t know the status of your neighbors so I think it seems unfair to assume they were all “illegal”. What were some of the other solutions you tried that did not work? From what you saying, it sounds like most of your neighbors were decent folk except this one.

  30. Rick Bentley

    You may recall people including the City of Manassas made some attempt to address overcrowding through zoning enforcement. Bush’s Justice Department threatened them, opened an investigation, and encouraged lawsuits against them – the suit was only recently dropped. The tyranny of the elitists, the conspiracy against decent wages for Americans, exists and existed and is the reason this problem can’t be addressed through existing interpretation of law.

    Zoning shows up at a house and says you can’t have 12 people in here unless you’re related – they say ok we’re related. Since they’re living here without ID they can claim darned near anything and no one can contradict it. Hence that system won’t work unless there is a real threat, such as threat of deportation, somewhere in the equation.

    You can prove American citizens are unrelated and in violation of zoning, but you can hardly prove it for “undocumented” persons.

  31. Moon-howler

    I don’t think Manassas was targeted for any reason other than J.O.B.S. The leaflets saying ‘go to Manassas’ that were supposedly found in Mexico sound to me like an urban legend since no one has ever personally seen one.

    What I find especially odd is that western PWC is about 75% Salvadoran and only about 25% Mexican, with a smattering of other nationalities sprinkled in there. (I am not commenting on Manassas City because I do not know) Why this breakdown? I have no idea. Probably something about J.O.B.S. as well as community.

  32. Not Me, Bubba

    “They came, en masse, very suddenly in a way that I don’t think word-of-mouth would have caused. And were buying homes immediately. Someone had this planned. I’m not saying it was illegal – I’m just saying some subset of local realtors were marketing this as a haven for ilelgals.”

    I remember the sudden demographic shift as well. We used to be military families, first-time homebuyers and (although I loathe the term) “muters”. Within a period of 6 months (or so it seemed, could have been 8-12) our neighborhood had changed – some good, a lot negative. And it WAS sudden.

    However, I still have a hard-time believeing it was a conspiracy amongs Latino realtors to convert Manassas/MP into a haven for illegals. More likely, a way for them to make a quick buck off of people who would normally NOT qualify for loans – afterall, the WaPo is reporting that many of these people are moving back to the counties from which they came (Arlington, Loudoun, Fairfax) – places where housing values were SO high, even creative financing couldn’t get them into homes…

  33. Rick Bentley

    Elena, when the noise started annoying us, I knocked on the door and 3 or 4 times spoke to someone (a different person each time) who spoke no English but acted like they understood me (doing thumping on the wall and trying to communicate why i was there) and said okay. After that, I left a note on the door, translated into Spanish via some free Internet site, explaining my issue.

    After that, a guy who spoke good English showed up at the house and invited me in and translated to the guy making the noise. It was obvious the guy didn’t care and didn’t respect me. The translator kind of apologized. I said, well, if it continues, I’ll have to call the police.

    Subsequently, we tried knocking on the wall when he did it, and he took to knocking back which was obviously the equivalent of an upraised middle finger. Subsequently, I called the Police maybe 7 times over the course of a year. The problem lessened though you never knew when he’d start, disturbing my wife at times such as when she was sick in bed or trying to relax.

    The kid took to staring at us in a vaguely threatening way. And leering at our daughter.

    After moving out, he moved over to the flophouse 2 doors down and terrorized another set of neighbors, before he and his new friends abandoned THAT house also. Still staring hard at me, and at least once I walked towards him and was going to go at it with him if he hadn’t flinched. I had Colgan’s flyer on cracking down on illegal immigrants in my hand, straight from the mailbox, and was going to hand it to him.

    Yeah, the other people there were okay, except their friends and acquaintences would park in our space time to time, but they were okay. Not this guy though. The fact that he thinks he has every right to live in a room clearly intended for a child and make noise in a way my neighborhood never endured before, and has no respect for me or the other neighbors, is not acceptable to me. The fact that he could be a child molester who unlike American citizens would not be tracked and identifiable, is not acceptable. The fact that he could cause a car accident and run away from the car and not be caught, is not acceptable. The fact that I pay for his emergency room services while he flips me the finger (figuratively) is not acceptable. The fact that he takes a job an American can do, and devalues it, is not acceptable to me.

    The fact that some elitist politician wants to give him amnesty and keep him living next to me enrages me.

  34. Kenneth Reynolds

    Moon-howler said on 5 May 2008 at 2:34 am:
    I am totally confused. I am pro-choice. I have no clue what Red Dawn and Kenneth are talking about.

    KENNETH SAAID NOT SCREAMED – I DONT LIKE THE USE OF SOUND BITES LIKE ‘PRO-CHOICE’ WHICH IS SO BANDIED ABOUT FOR ANOTHER ISSUE…TO BE USED TO CHARACTERIZE MY BELIEFS…AND FOR THAT MATTER, THOSE OF OTHERS. I THINK MOST OF US ON THIS ‘SIDE’ SO TO SPEAK ARE THE REAL ‘RULE OF LAW PEOPLE’ – WE WANT GOVTS TO STICK TO THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES, WHICH IN THIS CASE, FOR PWC TO ENFORCE LOCAL ORDINANCES, NOT USE THE IMMIGRATON ISSUE FOR A TICKET FOR RE-ELECTION. I HOPE THIS MAKES SOME SENSE MH AND THANKS FOR OPPTY. TO EXPLAIN!!! KR

  35. Moon-howler

    Rick,

    Your story sounds like mine except mine was many years ago. The neighborhood literally went to hell in a handbucket over a summer. The bird flipping guy was a nasty redneck family in my case. Other than she stayed drunk, attacked the cops when they came (with a frying pan no less), the story is the same. This family rented and the owner didn’t care or live in the area. The real estate company who managed the property didn’t seem to care.

    The bottom line is, there is not a lot you can do other than move. I was very resentful. And once a neighborhood goes like that one, there doesn’t seem to be much hope. I do feel your pain. Your story is like a bad flashback. Perhaps this time neighborhoods can recover. Hope springs eternal.

  36. Moon-howler

    Kenneth,

    I was trying to avoid this topic but it looks like I can’t.

    Are you referring to abortion rights when you say you do not like the term ‘pro-choice’ bandied about? If that is what you are saying, I guess I will have to say, tough crap. The abortion rights people claimed that expression about 30 years ago.

    I have never heard ‘pro-choice’ used in any part of the immigration issue. It really is not appropriate or correct and should be reserved for discussion about reproductive rights.

    Just trying to set the record straight–

    Moon

  37. Kenneth Reynolds

    Information only… said on 5 May 2008 at 9:22 am:
    Right Wing Nut Job!

    NOW THAT IS ONE AWESOME CHARACTERIZATION……AND A 4-LETTER WORD AT THAT……I THINK THE MTGE CRISIS RESULTS FROM AN UNPRECEDENTED LOW INTEREST RATE MARKET…..RATES WERE IN THE 3-5% RANGE, SO THE PRICES WENT UP – HOUSES MORE VALUABLE IN SUCH A MKT AND EVERYONE FROM GREENSPAN ON DOWN MUST HAVE THOUGHT IT WOULD LAST FOREVER. AND THE ARMS KILLED PEOPLE AND ON TOP OF THAT, INTEREST RATES WENT UP AND VALUES DOWN…….ONE SORRY MESS

  38. Kenneth Reynolds

    kgotthardt said on 5 May 2008 at 9:28 am:
    You know, I had a great professor explain the “wings” to our class (a hundred years ago it seems). He said that we should look at it like a circle, not a straight line. The right side of the circle starts out as the most radical “right wing”. As you move around the outside of circle, you get to the middle sections which are the moderates. As you move up towards the top left, you start getting more liberal. At the very top of the circle you have radical “left.” So they end at the same place: radical and probably illogical.
    I’ll never forget that because it made so much sense to me!

    KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED – THAT WAS 84 YRS AGO K….I HADE THE SAME PROFESSOR……POLITICAL SCIENCE IS TIMELESS AND YOU MAKE IT PRICELESS!!!

  39. Not Me, Bubba

    Kenneth – don’t be fooled. Greenspan was complicit in this whole mess even going so far as to recommend ARMs back in 2004 to inflate the bubble further. And he jumped ship at the most opportune time for himself. Greenspan was one slick mofo and his hands are filthy from his deep involvement in this mortgage meltdown.

    I hope his retirement is an interresting one (to use and slightly modify a Chinese Proverb).

  40. Kenneth Reynolds

    Not Me, Bubba said on 5 May 2008 at 1:21 pm:
    Rick –
    I did a quick google and found a story on what you claimed. No fliers were mentioned, but they were en route to Manassas…
    http://www.wtov9.com/news/9397913/detail.html

    KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED …I HEARD FROM A VERY RELIABLE SOURCE – LOCAL SENIOR POLICEMAN…..THAT THE CHIEF OF POLICE IN HERNDON WAS ON VACATION IN A CENTRAL AMERICAN NATION AND THERE WAS A SIGN POSTED ON A TREE—-GO TO 7-11 IN HERNDON VA FOR JOBS!!! I GUESS THE CHIEF HAD TO CUT HIS VACATION SHORT AFTER THAT ONE!!!

  41. Kenneth Reynolds

    Not Me, Bubba said on 5 May 2008 at 9:30 am:
    “Right Wing Nut Job!” LOL! Is that first cousin to a “Left Wing Bleeding Heart Marxist”?”
    Nope. I would say it’s more like the Hatfields and McCoys…
    I don’t like using those terms, but it seemed rather apropro in this instance since being pro-choice was being equated to being pro-illegal.

    KENNETH SCREAMED ……GO TO YOUR ROOM MR. BUBBA……WE HAVE BIG HEARTS BUT THEY BLEED NOT AND WE ARE NOT MARXIST!!!

  42. Kenneth Reynolds

    Moon-howler said on 5 May 2008 at 4:25 pm:
    Kenneth,
    I was trying to avoid this topic but it looks like I can’t.
    Are you referring to abortion rights when you say you do not like the term ‘pro-choice’ bandied about? If that is what you are saying, I guess I will have to say, tough crap. The abortion rights people claimed that expression about 30 years ago.
    I have never heard ‘pro-choice’ used in any part of the immigration issue. It really is not appropriate or correct and should be reserved for discussion about reproductive rights.
    Just trying to set the record straight–
    Moon

    KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED – THANK YOU MOON…..EVEN THOUGH YOU STATE THAT THE ‘ABORTION RIGHTS’ GROUP COINED THE WORD 30 YRS AGO, I DIDNT KNOW THAT – OR FOR THAT MATTER – WHO IS THE ABORTION RIGHTS GROUP???? ON SUCH A SENSITIVE TOPIC I RESENT ANYONE COINING BELIEFS INTO ONE NEAT LITTLE PACKAGE…..AS IF ANYONE WHO THINKS ABOUT THESE THINGS WOULD AGREE…THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF BELIEFS ABOUT IT…I GUESS WE COULD GO ON AND ON ABOUT IT…BUT JUST LIKE ABORTION…..SOME PERSON COMES ALONG AND THINKS THEY CAN PUT THE IMMIGRATON ISSUE IN A BOX WHEN THAT TOO IS VERY COMPLICATED AND CONTROVERSIAL…..AND I DESPISE ANYONE WHO USES IT FOR AN ELECTION ISSUE……….

  43. Kenneth Reynolds

    Not Me, Bubba said on 5 May 2008 at 4:32 pm:
    Kenneth – don’t be fooled. Greenspan was complicit in this whole mess even going so far as to recommend ARMs back in 2004 to inflate the bubble further. And he jumped ship at the most opportune time for himself. Greenspan was one slick mofo and his hands are filthy from his deep involvement in this mortgage meltdown.
    I hope his retirement is an interresting one (to use and slightly modify a Chinese Proverb).

    KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED – WHO SAID I WAS FOOLED!!! I WAS THERE.

  44. Red Dawn

    Moon-howler,

    I was quoting Citizen Tom for using the pro-choice for pro- illegal immigration.

    Here is HIS quote:

    “Wondering how the prochoice folks for illegal immigration folks would explain this reversal I decided to look around. Some of things I were quite funny.”….

    http://citizentom.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/those-statistics-mean-what/

    see my response to him on 4 May 2008 at 6:44 pm

    hope that clears things up 🙂

  45. Moon-howler

    Thanks Red Dawn and Kenneth,

    I feel like my brains have been removed and reinserted. arrggghhhh.

    Kenneth, by pro-choice groups I mean all the different groups who collectively support abortion rights and feel it is a woman’s choice, not the governments.

    I do not see it having anything to do with immigration.

    I hope this clears up that issue. I did not realize Citizen Tom actually said that. I take it he is not pro-choice (in the traditional sense of the term)

  46. park'd

    Moon Howler: Rednecks are just as bad as illegals which is what our side has always said. It’s not a racist issue as much as it is a cultural and manners issue. My Hispanic next door neighbors are a PITA with all the people that live there and come and go all the time, but at least they are good and decent people and not the wacked out type like Rick had to deal with. That little punk would have lasted about 5 minutes with me regardless of what race he was. It’s about culture and respect for Americans, or lack thereof. It’s bad enough when you have to deal with your own ignorant countrymen, but to have to deal with this type of behavior from someone who shouldn’t even BE in this country is just plain unacceptable. This is the point that most of us have always tried to make to the liberal crowd trying to make this a racist issue. Rick, I feel your pain.

  47. Kenneth Reynolds

    Thanks Red Dawn and Kenneth,

    I feel like my brains have been removed and reinserted. arrggghhhh.

    Kenneth, by pro-choice groups I mean all the different groups who collectively support abortion rights and feel it is a woman’s choice, not the governments.

    I do not see it having anything to do with immigration.

    I hope this clears up that issue. I did not realize Citizen Tom actually said that. I take it he is not pro-choice (in the traditional sense of the term)

    KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED – OK MH..I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM. I JUST DISAGREEE WITH PUTTING ALL ORGS IN A BOX….I HAVE MY VIEWS THAT MAY LEAD TO THE SAME CONCLUSION…..BUT DO NOT ABHORE THINGS, POSITIONS, ISSUES – E.G. LATE TERM ABORTIONS, BUT NOT JUST THIS – HELD BY OTHER GROUPS….THANK YOU

  48. Moon-howler

    Park’d,

    I am not sure who you consider ‘our side.’ If you are talking about HSM, I have seen people over there get real indignant over the word ‘redneck.’ I sure don’t consider myself part of the liberal crowd.

    I believe the problem in Manassas is mainly socio-economic in nature. People in middle class neighborhoods resent the hell out of non-middle class folks moving in several families next door….sort how the nighbors might feel if I moved in next door in Great Falls. All kidding aside, when people move in and do not abide by neighborhood standards or social conventions deemed appropriate by the rest of us, it’s tough. As long as it is one or 2 families you can control it. More than that…You get angry.

    Crazy Jerry back in the day was almost comical. When 20 other houses had equally bad neighbors…it ceased even being amusing. I finally escaped. It took a long time though and some clever real estating.

  49. Elena

    O.K., here is a funny personal story about PITA neighbors. When I lived in a townhouse in Centreville, I had a neighbor, directly next to me, that, inevitably, most Friday nights, would blare his heavy metal rock. I worked Saturdays, so I was normally in bed at a reasonable time. I complained SEVERAL times, tried to do it funny, tried to do it stern, but I just couldn’t get through how irritating it was to me. So, one night, late January, there we go again, music blaring at midnight! I march over, knock on the door, the owner answers, clearly having been to happy hour earlier, and I say, very angrily ” How old are you ANYWAY?” and he looks down at his watch, and says “oh, well, I guess I’m 26”. Realizing its his birthday, I begrudgingly smile, say Happy Birthday, and well, the rest his history, almost 8 years of blissful marriage has passed, together 14! Don’t think I dont’ wonder what would have happened if only I hadn’t knocked on that door! LOLOLOL Nah, I love my hubbie, drives me crazy, but I’ll keep him.

  50. Rick Bentley

    Funny story. But here’s something I want to say – Elena if you still lived in a townhouse in Centreville I’ll bet you’d feel differently about what happens in middle-class communities around here.

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