Wow, does this read like a horrible deja vu nightmare?! The similarities are striking:
*Help Save…….Maryland
*Deny services to children by initating legal status confirmation (original resolution laguage written by Robert Duecaster with help of IRLI(FAIR) )
*Citizen concern about overcrowding/neighborhood issues
*Racial profiling concerns
*A Chief of Police who advocates community outreach to immigrant communities
Until now, the county has handled the influx with outreach classes in schools and community policing programs. Chic Hispanic restaurants flourish in downtown Frederick, and working-class Latinos have remained relatively invisible.
Suddenly, however, their presence is igniting a controversy that some fear could escalate into the kind of war over illegal immigration that has torn apart Prince William County. In the past month, the Frederick County sheriff has joined with federal authorities to identify and deport illegal immigrants, and county commissioners have proposed legislation to ban free translation of county business and require public schools to track down students who are in the United States illegally.
“The single biggest threat to our country is the immigration problem. We cannot continue to absorb this population or we will end up in collapse like a Third World country,” said Sheriff Chuck Jenkins, whose officers have identified 18 illegal immigrants in the past two weeks after traffic stops or other incidents. “We are not going out in a white van with a big net, but we are getting the criminal element of the illegal population out of Frederick County.”
Local opponents of the measures, including black, white and Hispanic residents, say the crackdown and other proposed actions smack of racism and political grandstanding.
Help Save Maryland, a rapidly growing citizens group that opposes illegal immigration, has supported the crackdown in group e-mails, radio interviews and newspaper columns. The coordinator of the Frederick chapter has accused opponents of “playing the race card.”
Frederick Police Chief Kim Dine, who is white, spent years in Washington’s Latino neighborhoods and is an advocate of police outreach in the community. County Board of Education Chairman Daryl Boffman, who is black, has worked to promote the kind of educational boosts for immigrant students that once helped him get ahead.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/05/AR2008050502405.html
It’s no fun being an illegal alien, I tell ya mama It’s no fun being an illegal alien. There’s a reason why they are called illegal aliens. *hint* it’s because they are illegal.
Son of a gun, someone keeps reffering to the bloggers on here as fat Bitch@s…that’s all folks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4otTziYjk
correction change bitch@s to broads…lol,
Hey Red Dawn, I prefer to think of myself as vuluptuous or zophtic as opposed to fat 🙂 If that is the best they can do to insult us, what a pathetic bunch of “men”.
Tee hee, we could always comment on “bird legs”…or beer guts.
Red Dawn,
Besides, the “fat broads “comment come from Robert Duecaster. AND and this is the man John Stirrup relied on to write our county anti illegal immigration policy? Are you freakin’ serious?!
Park’d,
BTW, you made some really good points about not wanting children roaming the streets if education is denied them, having no positive alternative and putting them at risk for a mulitude of negative consequences.
Red Dawn is the mistress of understatement on this one. Thanks Red Dawn. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, should they?
Censored,
The cutting evil female side of me could come up with much worse, but I will take the high road instead!
It was the afternoon giggle that I could not resist. 🙂
“working-class Latinos have remained relatively invisible.”
That sentence was kind of creepy. It almost sounds like it was okay in Frederick because the hispanic restaurants were “Chic” and all the working class people were “invisible” so they didn’t diminish or tarnish the reputation of the town. So does that mean it would NOT be okay if the working class was visible and restaurants were beer joints instead of Chic?
Isn’t that a form of discrimination all on its own as in “We don’t need no resolution in Frederick because our hispanics know their place and stay out of sight unless they run trendy restaurants” ? Good grief, that is kind of a condescending statement from a reporter who I would guess would be on the side of latino community.
“Good grief, that is kind of a condescending statement from a reporter who I would guess would be on the side of latino community.”
It’s called hypocracy and you saw it rear its ugly head. As long as the the illegal aliens stay in the blue collar neighborhoods and away from the gated communities and the Panera Bread down the street, we’re going to shout from up high about all the white trash racist rednecks moaning about their blighted neighborhoods. All those poor rednecks should just move if they don’t like it. Let them eat cake.
Elena, what’s so funny is that as we get older, middle age has a way of kicking us in the butt. Not many of us escape the indignities. lol
Mando, where are all these gated communities to which you guys refer? I live mid-county and there are none around me as far as I know. Even most of Haymarket and Gainesville are not gated. Most of us are just typical middle class folks. My neighborhood has lower, middle, a sprinkling of upper, red-neck, druggies, professionals, government workers, self-empoyed, young, old, etc.
Censored bybvbl,
“Mando, where are all these gated communities to which you guys refer?”
GOOD QUESTION! The only gates that I think of are Westgate, Irongate and even Newgate in Centreville. ( LOL) I live close by to one of these.
Shhhh, I left out “Watergate” I don’t want my friend kgotthardt to have any more bad dreams about Nixon 🙂
Mando, 6. May 2008, 16:07
“It’s called hypocracy and you saw it rear its ugly head. As long as the the illegal aliens stay in the blue collar neighborhoods and away from the gated communities and the Panera Bread down the street, we’re going to shout from up high about all the white trash racist rednecks moaning about their blighted neighborhoods. All those poor rednecks should just move if they don’t like it. Let them eat cake.”
This is my main gripe with libs. I am one of those poor saps living in the blue collar neighborhood because I was young and single when I bought this house and didn’t want to buy more house than I knew I could afford. Sure I could have spent 100k more and toughed it out with the $800 a month higher payment, but frankly I didn’t want to be house broke. What did that prudence get me? A neighborhood taken over by illegals, trash, blight, flop houses, exorbitant taxes, a loss of all equity and THEN some, and high blood pressure. Now that I’m in my mid 30’s I am ready to get the F out of here, but you see there’s a catch: I’m 30k upside-down on my house because we have lost so much equity in our homes here from this issue and I couldn’t sell it even if I tried (assuming that I didn’t offer them my car and the contents of my home as bribery). Libs are usually far away in gated communities telling those of us who deal with this on a daily basis that we are racists and mean-spirited. I don’t want to hear any lip service from anyone who is not in my situation or worse when it comes to illegal immigration and its effects on communities. I especially don’t want to hear it from someone who blogs from the protected confines of Clifton, Burke or Fairfax where they wouldn’t see an illegal anywhere unless he/she was mowing their lawn or cleaning their house.
Gated communities really implies nice SFH neighborhoods with upper middle class folks with American values and customs. It could be former military types and professionals that have 100k+ average family incomes. It doesn’t REALLY imply that there is a gate at the entrance to the development, although there very well may be.
park’d,
I was being sacrastic. I am in the same situation as you. Upside down on the house, didn’t bite off more than we could chew and have shared the blight of all you describe. We have said if we could,we would, MOVE.
I of course am being silly( gated community slap) trying to make the best of it. 🙂
We are ALL going to have to work together to get out of this. This is what I am saying.
Park’d,
One more thing, I think you made a comment about life happens while your busy planning….that was spot on..and NOW I have a song that comes to mind for you 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iYrWoUkqDg
On a minor note… On the right-hand panel under ‘Categories’ you have ‘Steinbeck’ listed. It’s ‘Steinbach’ (unless you *are* referring to the Pulitzer-prize winning author and not the, uh, dude from MWB).
🙂
That was yet another article designed to manipulate with its inflammatory headline and complete absence of actual facts and statistics, just a few stupid platitudes about how Frederick used to be “bucolic” and now is so upscale, what with the McDonald’s restaurants and all. Give me a break–there was not a shred of actual news in that story; it was just designed to get people riled up and to take a swipe at PWC and how it is so “torn apart” now. I don’t think it helps to advance either side of this debate, frankly.
Oh, and I would never call myself fat–just “horizontally challenged.”
Mando, most of the people who have been living in those “gated communities” are not liberals!!! More than likely, they’re Republican. Many of us liberals live right alongside the common guy.
Although it doesn’t help with your problems caused by your neighbors, if you’re not paying more than you would to rent similar space, you’re still in fairly good shape. The people in McMansions down the road from me are financially hurting too. I see houses start as $800,000 listings. Then the price is dropped to $700,000 after months. Then they try to rent it for $4500-5000/month, but the rest of their neighbors who are trying to rent theirs have dropped the rental to $3500. Then $3000. They can’t cover their mortgages. They can’t sell at a price that will enable them just to get out. There are many upside-down mortgage holders out there regardless of the neighborhood. And as people are pinched for money, repairing the mower, painting the trim, landscaping the yard, etc. are far down the priority list. Their neighbors aren’t too happy with the appearance of these houses either.
Censored bybvbl,
This whole “gated community” argument seems more like the grass is always “greener argument”
I keep saying I am going to STOP posting videos ( I am just sick of words : )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbqZde1_zSQ
Red Dawn, the grass may be greener or weedier, or taller. It’s gonna be a long, hot summer…We’ll see how it shakes out.
Censored bybvbl,
Sounds positive.
By the way, how many people does it take to PEEL an ONION? 🙂 ( not you, everyone in general)
Park’d,
ALL the MORE reason to sympathize with you. I see you have made great ground here with your OPEN mind ( not that you CHANGED who you are)
“# park’d said on 6 May 2008 at 5:17 pm:
It’s their chief and their mayor and council that are to blame for MP’s problems, not the police. Those scumbags need to be booted from office ASAP and the city needs to go back to PWC where it can be managed without so many good ‘ole boy schemes. Politicians are scum and will always scheme, but the pols in MP take it to a whole other realm.
# 9 said on 6 May 2008 at 8:16 pm:
park’d said on 6 May 2008 at 5:17 pm:
It’s their chief and their mayor and council that are to blame for MP’s problems, not the police. Those scumbags need to be booted from office ASAP and the city needs to go back to PWC where it can be managed without so many good ‘ole boy schemes.
PLEASE! PWC has enough of it’s own problems. We don’t need MP’s too.
# 999 said on 6 May 2008 at 8:16 pm:
Should have been poster 999 vice 9.”
http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/06/the-mjm-discriminates-against-african-americans/
THIS IS MY POINT. There are so MANY scenario’s to EVERY problem and who to blame, or who’s ASS needs scratching FIRST ( grass greener thing)
It is just a big joke….I’d rather fly off of the whole blog / political scene, knowing I have said my peace and with an open mind realize that I gave it my BEST shot.
Just like the wind, it changes from one day to the other. I just SEE so much NEGATIVE that I really wish I could go back to “yesterday” the video I posted to you and be happy. Life is too short.
NO WONDER why I didn’t want to get involved.
opps… and forgot to shine the light on WHY, YOU might feel left behind.
“PLEASE! PWC has enough of it’s own problems. We don’t need MP’s too.”
“Shhhh, I left out “Watergate” I don’t want my friend kgotthardt to have any more bad dreams about Nixon”
LOL! Red, I can see I’ve missed a lot during my brief time off here! And WOW! What a great new look, Admin! Kudos for breaking the bonds of darkness.
I should tell you, though, that what made me take a few days off, among other things, were cameo appearances of Corey Stewart and Greg Letiecq in my dreams. I knew then it was time to take a serious break from blogging. Nixon, Nader and Covington are one thing, but those two are elements of nightmares I do NOT want to be having!
KG,
I know what you mean. I had an appearence by John Stirrup and I thought, I need a break from illegal immigration!
Emma,
Yes, I like horizontially challenged too 😉
The article is relevant because, once again, I see an organization, with a HELP in the title, and I wonder, are these groups all connected, and who is the real leader? I know there are community issues, but when I look back at the mass immigration of other ethnic groups, I just don’t see a difference in the dynamic of our society today in comparison to many decades ago. You can easily interchange hispanic with Italian, Irish, Polish, etc and read the exact same complaints. Do we really understand enough about immigration and its importance to this country? Is the sign over the statue of liberty now saying, “full” as opposed to “vacancy” ? I know we can’t aceept the entire world, but is the entire world asking? When I hear someone say that I am being too emotional, and that is clouding my judgement, I wonder, isn’t the very heart and soul, the foundation, of our Democracy, an emotional attachment? We are a nation of immigrants, we all have our family history of our “birth” to this country. Even if you came on the Mayflower, you still have an immigrants story. FAIR, the puppeteer, has clearly come out and said that they are against LEGAL immigration also, they believe we need to cut our population to 150 million, almost half of where we are now. I belive in border security because we are a nation at risk, but I don’t want to use that as an excuse to stop immigration. I had a call from someone who owns a landscaping business, wanting to know what happened with the resolution and the probable cause portion, I explained it had been amended such that you would have to commit a crime, be arrested before an officer would ask you for your legal status. She said she was relieved to hear that, as hispanic workers were unwilling to venture into PWC in fear of getting pulled over just because they were hispanic(they were all legal residents BTW), they just didn’t want to deal with possibility of being detained for no reason. They have a small landscaping company, they aren’t a huge coroporation, living off the backs of immigrants, but they have a labor shortage every summer. I would love for her to share her story. The reality is that small businesses are integral to our economy, certainly we should be taking them into account with our immigration policies.
Elena, 6. May 2008, 15:30
Hey Red Dawn, I prefer to think of myself as vuluptuous or zophtic as opposed to fat If that is the best they can do to insult us, what a pathetic bunch of “men”.
KENNETH SAD NOT SCREAMED – WELL, THAT IS JUST WHAT YOU ARE…….VULUPTUOUS…..
AND YES, THEY ARE PRETTY PATHETIC…..I REALLY WOULDNT CALL THEM MEN!!
I NOTICED THE HEADING WAS ABOUT THE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN FREDERICK AND PRINCE WILLIAM…….IT IS EEERY THAT BOTH SEEM TO BE OUT OF THE FAIR PLAYBOOK…..CITIZENS OF FREDERICK ARE BEING SUCKED IN TO PUSH THE FAIR AGENDA!
es_la_ley,
Thanks for catching my misspelling.
ugh. The blog comments are time-stamped using military time. I don’t do military time. Nor do I do metric. 🙂 I’m dating myself, but remember in elementary school, middle school and high school when they used to make us learn the metric system because the “whole country was going metric?” Thank goodness, it never happened. 🙂
Otherwise, I love the changes!!
I agree, I love the changes, thanks Admin for doing all the hard work to accomplish this new look!
Hi Elena, I noticed in your comments above that you informed your friend, the business owner, that under the change in the resolution, someone would have to be arrested before the PWCPD would inquire about their immigration status. That is incorrect. Under the change, the MANDATING of officers to check immigration status has been lifted, but it was replaced with officer discretion. So what exactly does this mean? I don’t know as I have not read a statement from the Police department. Discretion could mean an officer would ask if he/she had probable cause the person was illegal or they may not ask, but they are not forced to do either by policy. The order demanding they ask has been recinded. However, IF someone is arrested, their status is mandated to be checked, you were correct on that part. THIS whole scenario is what Stewart and the others are counting on as a victory.
So lets wait and see what the police department does before we assure people on one side or the other of what they WILL or WON’T do.
After reading some of the reports on the changes in the resolution, I am not sure exactly what the changes really mean. It sounds like the officer is not mandated to check immigration status but can use his/her discretion. I guess we will find out more when the Police Chief issues a clarification. I know this issue of “discretion” has made the other side feel the resolution has even more teeth and they feel victorious. I guess we just have to wait and see.
By the way, thanks Alanna. I like the changes. Thanks for all the hard work.
I continue to grow more distressed by the climate in the area and the hate that is being spewed by the nativists. Now there is a Help Save Maryland? This sounds like Germany in the 1930’s. Where will this all end?
Lukcy duck,
I agree with most your assessment, the policy enforcement will be dictated by how Chief Deane wants this new policy enforced. Chief Deane has been pretty clear where he stands on the role of his police officers. He does NOT want to jeapordize his relationship with the latino community and does not want them being fearful of the police.
I disagree with your suggestion that this change is what Corey wanted. He wanted desperately to get rid of this modification that passed last week.
Marie: You just lost any credibility that you had by comparing this to Germany and Nazis. You need to go back to school and pick up a history book if you feel that way because you do every Jew in the world a disservice when you say that. Please think about your comment and how disrespectful it is to those of us who had family that endured the holocaust.
@ Park’d
“This is my main gripe with libs.”
You know you lose all credibility when you spout off on tirades like that. The issue is neither right ro left, Liberal vs. Conservative.
I’m a proud, godless, liberal, but you wouldn’t know it from some of my posts here. And from what I gather the admin is a republican and there are many conservatives here.
When you spew that “liberals are to blame” nonsense, you detract from the real issue(s) at hand. I don’t see the lefties here complaining about cheap labor conservatives, do you?
Not Me, Bubba, 7. May 2008, 8:43
I think I am with Park’d on this one, I see this as collusion between business conservatives who want the cheap labor and upper middle class liberals who have a idealogical belief in the virtues of multiculturalism. Since there is only a handful of business owning conservatives, these “liberals” provide the voting block that continues these policies of non-enforcement of our labor and immigration laws.
By the way, I am a tried and true democrat, and normally consider myself a liberal.
Park’d,
Marie’s point is that who and what are orchestrating all these SAVE groups. I feel like a broken record, because I don’t believe anyone is saying we are the same as Nazi Germany. I believe what people are saying is we need to be vigilgant about the hate speech that is rising. We need to address real community issues without scapegoating an entire community. “Illegals” are not the reason you are upside down on your loan. Although I do believe our forclosure crisis is worse in this county because of the fear caused by the resolution, the entire country is suffering. We thought we could build our way out of the recession we were facing in early 2001, and just like in the mid 80’s, the crazy bubble burst and,many new homeowners got the short end of the stick. Everyone’s assessement has gone down Park’d, not just yours.
Rod made some interesting comments on a previous thread, about people now not being invested in their communities because their homes are not a long term investment, just a stepping stone. We plan on being in our house til the day we die, so if the market flucuates, for us, it just means we don’t pay as much in taxes. It will adjust for the better, just like in the aftermath of 80’s meltdown. Don’t forget, not long ago, people were offering MORE than the listed selling price, that ‘s how crazy this market was!
Elena, I was not stating that Stewart supported the change in the resolution, merely that he was using the outcome to spin it as a victory for his side.
Yes, you are correct in your assessment of the Chief’s desires for the community, however, as he has shown, he will do as the board directs him to in the best way possible. In this case, the BOCS has simply removed the “mandated” inquiries of the officers and substitiuted “discretion” of the officers. So, what was taking place in encounters a month ago because it was mandated, CAN and in some cases, will take place because the officers have been granted the discretion by the BOCS action.
@ PWC
” I see this as collusion between business conservatives who want the cheap labor and upper middle class liberals who have a idealogical belief in the virtues of multiculturalism. ”
I would tend to agree with you, but from what I have seen here I see the roles reversed. I see people who proclaim themselves conservative speak more for the merits of multiculturalism and leftists who are upset that the cheap labor force is evaporating.
Like I said – I don’t see this as a left or right issue. It transcends political boundaries.
“Under the change, the MANDATING of officers to check immigration status has been lifted, but it was replaced with officer discretion. So what exactly does this mean?” Lucky, do you think officers would take this chance in this now risky climate?
As for us being a bunch of “libs,” that’s bunk. I’m pretty moderate myself. But whatever. I think the discussion of who is liberal and who is conservative is a red herring distraction from the real issue at hand. Focus on the issues, not on political culture.
As far as valuing multiculturalism, we should understand we live in the D.C. Metro area. We have delegates from all over the world. We have the State Department, for goodness sakes! Do we really want to create a climate of unfriendliness here?
People like to spout fear of terrorism, but don’t you think we incite retaliation when we bash foreigners? That kind of attitude will lead to at least three things: a poorer U.S. global market, decreased diplomacy/international communications, and more terrorism. You’d kind of think Homeland Security would understand this and tell the real hate mongers to shut up before they get us all killed! Let’s work and play nicely with others, okay? Share your crayons.
Sorry Bubba, but it is libs that are out opining for the blanket amnesty of illegal aliens. RINOs and libs. A RINO is not a Republican and is what I refer to as someone who couldn’t run on the ticket as a Dem so magically changed faith to be a Repub. They are usually pro-business and con-middle class. Libs are just misguided in their support for the plight of anyone who is not white. Not all libs are bad and frankly I am much more middle-of-the-road now than I used to be. I was raised in a military family and taught that all people were equal and that it was up to the man to decide what he would do with his life. I was taught not to rely on a handout and that honor was above all else. Sadly I don’t see much of that in this country any more. All I see is a bunch of people taking advantage of American generosity at the expense of people like me. And yes, it is the fault of illegal aliens that I am in the situation that I am in now and I blame them wholeheartedly as well as the corrupt politicians that looked the other way as long as the money kept flowing. They have no ties to the community, no legal liability like us for their actions, no understanding of American values and what it means to the rest of us when they up and leave their homes to the bank, no understanding of the strain that them using the ER and schools puts on the average tax payer, etc, etc. That sense of honor that I have has done wonders for me…
There truly are two sets of rules these days and no matter what you think, your cause is a lost one if you think Americans will stand by and allow blanket amnesty to happen. There needs to be consequences and repercussions for ones actions in this country again, for citizens and illegal aliens. Sadly, we have forgotten this concept.
Kgotthardt, I think depending upon the circumstances, yes, if the officers had what they considered to be probable cause to believe someone was in the country illegally, they would inquire as to status. The resolution permits them to do it and if necessary, they would or in some cases, should. Certainly there are circumstances in which they would be allowed in a legal sense and maybe the interaction is such that they (the officers) don’t feel it would be of any benefit to anyone so they don’t. That is what the discretion part is all about. I have not seen any news releases or statements from anyone in authority as to how they (the police department) will handle that.
park’d, 7. May 2008, 8:15
Park’d,
Stop dropping the veiled race card at Marie. Actually she has quite a lot of credibility around here. How do you think ‘Nazi Germany’ started? It didn’t just spring up out of the earth. Strong nationalism and nativism were at the core as well as a prevailing idea that is was ok to dehumanize, albeit slightly at first, another group of human beings.
Along with Jews, gypsies, political dissidents, the mentally retarded, the mentally ill, members of religious groups like Jehovah’s Witness, and members of the clergy were also victims of imprisonment and extermination.
The entire Holocaust Museum is dedicated to the idea that unless we are aware of how ‘Nazi Germany’ got started and spread. Those of us who came along after those times have been entrusted to ensure that it never happens again. We begin with awareness. We continue with vigilance. Maybe there is just no such thing as being too cautious?
With all due respect MH, I was born in Germany, my mom is German and half of my family is. We know how it started and this is nothing like that. Don’t you see that making this comparison to enforcing laws and maintaining your immigration quotas to the extermination of 6 million Jews just makes your cause look weak and disingenuous? I’m trying to save you from making a major misstep in the future when making this comparison. I am not race baiting. I am simply stating fact. You dishonor ANYONE who endured the Nazis when you compare 20+ million illegal invaders helping themselves to the American dream with 6 million Jews who were already productive members of society and were citizens of Germany for generations already. Can’t you see how patently absurd this comparison is? I sure hope so for your sake. That is all I will say about this topic because it is a sore subject with me when people dishonor victims of the holocaust in this fashion.
Park’d, you know that the political pendulum swings as reliably as the real estate one does. The right wing of the Republican party has seen its day and the majority of the people in this country don’t want it in charge anymore. That doesn’t mean that they want a leftist agenda but a more central, moderate one. Look at the candidates. Compromise isn’t a dirty word. People want to see a realistic, workable solution to problems not an ideological rant.
I don’t know how you’re determining that your neighbors are here illegally. Some probably are but I’d venture to say they all aren’t. What is your solution to your problems? I’ve seen you ask posters on BVBL when the meetings of the MP Council were. If you want to affect change there, you need to keep on top of that info and participate. I know several of you are angry about changes in your neighborhoods, but ultimately you guys are going to be responsible for making those changes. The county or cities are not going to wave some magic wand and deport everyone who may be here illegally. You’ll have to find other solutions.
You may also have to adapt another mindset where you make some positive inroads and stop dwelling entirely on the negative because it only feeds your anger and takes control away from you. How about a Neighborhood Watch? Some community meetings? Picking up some trash and asking the neighborhood kiddos to do the same? Volunteer to do something for some elderly people in your neighborhood…and stifle the urge to tell them how the neighborhood has deteriorated because that only scares them. You want them active, not frightened.
And you can lecture me about living in a “gated community” which I do not do, but it won’t solve your problems. You are going to have to do that…or move. If I were going to continue to live in a neighborhood – even if I felt trapped financially – I would try not to continually dwell on the negative. It’s good initially to let off steam, but it’s not good for your health in the long term and it doesn’t solve the problem. Call the police when a police call is necessary, call zoning for valid zoning violations, but also become part of the community.
EDIT….Many of whom were citizens of Germany for generations already.
Granted not all of them were. Some were citizens of their respective countries that got invaded and taken over by Germany during their conquest. I don’t see bands of redneck nativists invading Mexico, Central and South American looking to exterminate Hispanics. Do you? Stop with the Nazi comparisons.
Park’d, I see nothing absurd about Moon-howler’s statements. The holocaust didn’t just happen without the other incremental steps of vilifying the “other”. Those steps need to be nipped in the bud.
Park’d,
I didn’t compare anything to the Holocaust. What I did do is defend Marie’s statement of Germany in the 1930’s.
I will even be fair. I am inviting you to tell us how you think Nazi Germany came into existence.