According to the Wasington Post, the drop in ESOL students isn’t truly saving the schools the $6 million that Corey repeatedly suggests. If we remove the $2 million of additional state funding then the ‘savings’ start to look more like $4 million. At this point we start to reach numbers that according to Corey himself are insignificant in an $850+ million dollar budget. Of course, if the trend continues it could have an affect on school construction etc… This year’s double digit losses in real estate assessments combined with a staggering forecloser rate and an over abundance of homes on the market that now appear to be selling at dirt cheap prices leads me to believe next year’s assessments will again suffer debilitating losses. How does this translate into next year’s budget since schools are mainly funded through real estate assessment taxes, only time will tell.

State education aid is distributed to school systems according to poverty and enrollment data and provides nearly half of Prince William’s annual school funding. When students leave a school system, so does state funding. David S. Cline, director of financial services for Prince William schools, estimated that the reduction in state funding this school year because of the ESOL student exodus totaled $2 million. But the school system was unable to reduce spending accordingly because students left from many schools. Officials could not reduce teaching staff, for example, or send back textbooks.

117 Thoughts to “Savings in ESOL Drop Insignificant”

  1. Elena

    Wait, don’t we all know that overcrowding is due to “illegals”. Once we take them out of the equation, we won’t need more schools….right? NO, wrong wrong wrong. We have had rampant housing development approved without the necessary infrastructure in place either before approval or in conjunction with rezonings. Battlefield High School and Alvey are well beyond capacity and they are only 3 years old.

  2. Elena

    For those of you who refuse to believe that Greg is a propogandist, why hasn’t he posted this very sad story about a Prince William County 8 year old boy killed in a DUI accident on Sunday? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051202567.html?tid=informbox

    I would surmise, he didn’t post it because the suspect did not have a hispanic surname and e wasn’t an “llegal”. The reality is that Greg posts what he believes will create a false reality that hispanics / illegals are the major contributors to crime in this county/country, and if we only could get “rid” of them or “send them home with love”,our streets would be so much safer.

  3. Just CAUSE

    Wow..Im a bit taken back, this story is very tragic and for it to be used for other means of publicity is very low and in poor taste. I have been tracking both websites for the past 3 months and if someone where to ask me ” what is BVBL” I would say ” it is a website for bloggers who want to inforce the illegal immigration deportation anyway possible and was created by Help save Manassas and If I were asked ” what is ANTI-BVBL” I would say ” A website of bloggers to vent about HSW and to find resolutions about immigration..They are the exact opposite of BVBL..

    I really thought thats why BOTH websites were created, To battle out the illegal immigration
    issues…

  4. Mando

    You thought Anti-BVBL was created to support the community in the battle against illegal aliens?? Not even close… The name of the blog didn’t give that away?

    There can be no solution if they don’t even see the problem. To them, illegal aliens are an economic necessity which they hide behind “humanitarian” issues. The majority of them don’t live anywhere near the blight. Preaching from their segregated communities. Hypocracy at it’s best.

  5. anon

    Yes, I guess if one of them lived in a community with overcrowding and probable illegal aliens (like the one who lived in the house next to me, was caught by a neighbor breaking and entering into my house, and then fled and is nowhere now to be found), they wouldn’t be so sympathetic. I don’t care anymore, after this incident, and seeing my neighborhood trashed (broken beer bottles, other garbage, etc. on a daily basis), I’m putting my house up for sale and getting out of there. I’m sure the neighborhood will continue to go downhill, but I no longer care. Anyone wanting to live there is more than welcome to buy my townhouse! Somehow, I doubt I’ll get any takers.. Probably it will get sold to someone who will be renting it out to 10 more people, just adding to the overcrowding and trash and noise in the neighborhood.

  6. elvis

    elena,

    tragic story, however I dont know why it would be on either website since the topic of discussion here is illegal immigration and problems thereof. Am I missing something? Is there a political issue here I’m missing?

  7. Just CAUSE

    1. Ok Im going to come right out and ask all the

    Do you think illegal immigration is a problem..Yes or No

    cut and dry, simple and to the point..Cause I was getting the impression that we ALL agreed the illegal population was out of control and needed some reform and that we are all in a disagreement on how is going to take place..right???

  8. Just CAUSE

    Elvis I agree and I am now in need of clarification myself..Seems we are “off” topic..

  9. Mando

    “elena,

    tragic story, however I dont know why it would be on either website since the topic of discussion here is illegal immigration and problems thereof. Am I missing something? Is there a political issue here I’m missing?”

    Short answer – Greg is a nazi.

  10. anon

    If one made the argument that Greg isn’t posting all news articles of crimes in general (that is those not involving immigrants of any kind – which this one qualifies as), then one can also make the argument that this website is not posting any articles that highlight crimes by immigrants. After all, if Greg is supposed to post ALL crimes to give an equal and balanced view, then this website should post ALL articles mentioning immigrants – whether they are positive or negative toward them. Right?

  11. TWINAD

    I just have to chime in…I think what Elena was saying is that if the accident occurred and it was a Hispanic male driving the pick up truck…this would be a lead story on BVBL. ANY bad news having anything to do with Latino’s is picked up right away and used as a tool to hammer the impression that all the bad things that go on in the County are caused by Latino’s. She is trying to point out that terrible things happen and all kinds of people can be behind the cause, not just Latino’s. Elena, correct me if I’m wrong in my take on the post.

  12. Elena

    Just Cause,
    Yes, illegal immigration is a problem, but therein lies the disagreement in what kind of problems it produces and how we solve those problems.

    I would suggest you take a look at the solutions topic at the top of the page. We are different from Greg in that we will not promote fear and anger to address an issue that many citizens are concerned about.

    Elvis,
    We have been having discussions about HSM and its role in the discussion of illegal immigration recently. It is a valid part of the discussion to determine if HSM/Greg/BVBL is promoting truth or the distortion thereof. The purpose of highlighting this very tragic story is that Greg did NOT post it on his website. Why? He certainly tell us of other crimes in PWC. He didn’t post it because he wants people to believe that the majority of heinous crimes are committed by this “invasion” of “illegal criminal aliens”. I am not using it for publicity, I am merely pointing out, for all those people who visit here, who still believe that Greg is simply posting the facts, his facts are twisted to fit his message and intended to create a climate of fear and mistrust towards illegal immigrants/hispanics. If we are to start coming up with solutions, we need to first have a grasp of the facts, and right now, misinformation is running rampant.

  13. Elena

    Thank you Twinad, that is EXACTLY what I am saying. We must have been typing at the same time!

  14. anon

    Not promoting anger and fear? For a good while there was lots of talk about what’s happening in Prince William County is a lot like the Nazi’s and if that wasn’t promoting fear I don’t know what was. Go back and read those posts and see if they weren’t trying to “promote fear and anger”. I would like to see someone explain that! Trying to get people believing in something like what those posts were saying is just as bad as what you are accusing Greg of doing. And using an article with no connection to immigrants at all, but is just about crime in this area – sure seems to be more of the “bash Greg” part of this website. This website is just as full of distortion and fear promoting as the website it continually bashes.

  15. Just CAUSE

    Elena- I KNOW ALL THAT!!! I get it!!! You are for illegal immigration and Greg is against it..I GET IT!!!!!!

    What I didnt GET was the fact you mentioned a very tragic story in a manner to blast GREG and what a P.O.S he is..I thought that was very low class of you…

    Twinad- I can see WHY Elena did it, I just CANT BELIEVE that she did it…

    So Elena- What kind of problems does illegal immigration produce..according to you..

    Twinad- Please ALLOW Elena to answer this one!

  16. Mando

    Greg’s point is, every death caused by an illegal alien could have been prevented with immigration enforcement and borders that actually worked as intended.

    Not hispanics are the boogey man!

  17. WhyHereWhyNow

    “When students leave a school system, so does state funding.”

    Dr. Fuller explained this in one of the videos from earlier. He also said when the quality of schools go down, people leave for counties with better school systems, which in turn has an impact on housing demand, which hurts property values, and then screws our school system again because our schools are funded by real estate taxes!!!!

    We are stuck with this Board of Supervisors for another 3 and a half years. They might have consulted Dr. Fuller instead of F.A.I.R. and Help Save Manassas. They might have piloted us through the icy waters of economic downturn without steering toward the gigantic iceberg that is the Immigration Resolution.

    But to their credit, they realized their error sooner than other places like the state of Arizona and Riverside, NJ. Our economy here is half ruined but not fully ruined. Our reputation is repairable. We need to find a way to encourage people to live here again, and cut rate deals on bank foreclosed houses aren’t going to cut it. We need a P.R. campaign like Dr. Fuller said, to let people know that we are a welcoming community despite what the extremists have proclaimed with this Godforsaken Resolution.

  18. Mando

    @ anon

    You forgot the KKK. That’s a huge buzzword here. That and all us “SCARY” people that are for holding our elected officials accountable for this mess we’re in. I think I was on the “SCARY” people watch list for a short period. LOL… my 10 year old daughter would have gotten a kick out of that one…

  19. Mando

    HeHe… the same Dr. Fuller that has economic interests in companies that employ illegal aliens???

  20. WhyHereWhyNow

    Just CAUSE, are you an adult or another 17-year-old trying on your father’s anti-immigrant clothes?

    No one is for illegal immigration. Not Elena, not me, not this blog, and least of all not the people who are currently here without status seeking to adjust that status.

    What if I argued with you with under the assumption that you are for child rape? It would be pretty easy to dismiss you in my own mind. But I’d have to limit my thoughts to the same ideological blindness that characterizes the anti-immigrant lobby. I don’t remember any of your other posts, so forgive me if you are not deserving of this label, but this last one sure makes it sound like you are just another duped and frightened clone.

  21. anon

    Mando,

    You’re right – KKK was intermixed with the Nazi/Holocaust comments in those posts, I did forget about that. Again, how that is not “promoting fear” is an interesting question. It is funny to watch claims on this site about how Greg is using lots of hyperbole, fear mongering, and cherry picking news items, while they themselves need to look in the mirror, as they are just as guilty.

  22. Elena

    I am not FOR illegal immigration Just Cause. I am sorry you feel the need to polarzie and reduce a complicated issue to such a simple either/ or statement. I am for a comprehensive immigration policy that takes into account a need for various labor force requirements. One that acknowledges we needed these people to build America up during the real estate boom we all benefited from, and now, it would be immoral to simply say we don’t need you anymore, you served your purpose(chinese labor immigration perfect example).

    The other issue, is not ALL hispanics, only a small minority, are here illegaly. We are clearing experiencing a demographic influx with a concentration of spanish speakers. We need help with integration for such a large group, more ESOL classes, more civic classes. For illegal immigrants, we need to require a path to legalization. Social Security and Medicare will be in severe crisis once the baby boomers begin the onslaught of retirement. We NEED more money in the kitty so PASS the Dream Act, create more higher level skilled workers.

    I have more to say, but have to attend to kids now, I’ll add more later!

  23. Do the Right Thing

    Mando,

    So you think the guy who drafted the Resolution (a complete nut job… Duecaster) is more sane than Dr. Fuller, a reknowned economist? Give me a break.

  24. Elena

    Mando,
    Are you a white male, between the ages of 25-35, fairly educated? You fall into the profile of a serial murderer, should we deport you so that innocent people don’t die?

  25. WhyHereWhyNow

    Mando, did you make that up or did you assume it was true because someone you agree with made it up? Either way, people who avoid reality-based solutions and trust demagogues before experts are being proven wrong all over the country. If you contributed to the folly in Prince William County, shame on you. If you are just jumping on the bandwagon of propaganda and willful ignorance, thanks for giving us another clown to laugh at. The truth is, you can’t hurt us now.

  26. anon

    Somehow I think the ratio of serial killers to white males, age 25-35, is a lot lower than criminals who are illegal aliens to the total illegal alien population!

  27. Just CAUSE

    I’m glad I left PWC and I dont want to come back..Its a little to late for that now…Manassas was my home, its where I grew up and where I have alot of great memories and now..its gone to hell in a hand basket and Im afraid I am not the only one that feels this way..its just a little to late todo something now..dont you think?

  28. Elena

    Anon, the analogy stands, and is valid.

  29. anon

    Just CAUSE,

    I bought my townhouse in Manassas new in 1985. In the past few years the neighborhood has gone downhill fast. Yes, I do think it is too late – there is no reversing the trend. Too many townhouses on my street being lived in by too many people, who don’t care about trashing other neighbor’s property, etc. I tried cleaning up the broken glass (mostly beer bottles, all Corona brand) but after a few weeks of trying and it reappearing on a daily basis up and down the entire street, I gave up. It is hard to find a place to walk my dog where there isn’t busted glass. Be glad you got out of there when you did. I’ve finally decided to get out of there too – I’ve decided the neighborhood isn’t going to recover.

  30. WhyHereWhyNow

    Re. promoting fear — I’m not sure why you are arguing about this. Gospel Greg himself has said that he wants immigrants in PWC to be fearful, this is easily the most effective aspect of the Immigration Resolution in reversing the demographic shift that so annoyed him and his followers (regardless of legal status of course). Gospel Greg followers have repeatedly celebrated the manifestations of this fear. “Not a brown face” at the bus stop, etc. Fear is a powerful tool. It has been their goal to enlist the local Police in creating that fear. Lately, when it’s looked as though the Police would not be their personal fear brigade, they have talked of creating fear in other ways, with “torches and pitchforks” and by hounding people at day laborer sights (regardless of legal status of course).

    So if you’re on this blog complaining that obvious parallels to other periods in human history where Police forces were used in this way — what’s to complain about? Such comparisons do add to the fear, and fear is the number one reason you can celebrate less brown faces at the bus stop.

    I don’t get it. I’d like an explanation. I will ignore any attacks that precede the explanation, and hope to read that there are some here who are rethinking the idea that brown faces is not a fair indicator of legal status, and thus, the Immigration Resolution was an ill-conceived reaction to perceptions of an “invasion” that had very little to do with legal status, of course.

  31. Just CAUSE

    Elena- You made the point I was trying to get us ALL back on..I wanted to hear it from you and unfortunantly I had to piss you off to get you back on the subject at hand. Dont fall into the mentality of the other site, stick to your facts and opinions at hand, don’t have to lower yourself or this blog to remind us why we are all here. Most of us agree with you..

    WhyHereWhyNow I am 42 and no I will not even entertain your assumption of me being for child rape, thats another LOW CLASS thing to even say, I will say that I must of struck a nerve with you and after your nonsense babble, you got back on track as to WHY we are here and NO I have not been duped nor am I a clone, but today this blog got very close of being duped and being a clone of another website…just wanted to POINT THAT OUT!

  32. WhyHereWhyNow

    So you said Elena “was for illegal immigration” just to piss us off?

    I guess it worked. I don’t understand your other points but thanks for telling me your age. We are contemporaries. I sense that you are young enough and open enough to grow with us as we learn how much more complex is the immigration issue than false rhetorical constructs like “for illegal immigration,” “against illegal immigration,” “what part of illegal don’t you understand,” “we are being invaded,” and “anyone who is worried about our economy is an odious capitalist.”

  33. Just CAUSE

    Anon- Thats the reason I left…my neighborhood went down hill fast and the HOA failed to enforce many of the codes and it was because of the illegal and legal immigrants that moved into our neighborhoods that it started to go downhill but I place the blame on my HOA for allowing it to happen..Rules and laws are in place for a reason and our HOA’s and our Government failed to enforce them… and now….resolutions are being created to enforce the laws that should of been enforced along time ago.. I agree that illegal immigration or immigration for that matter is an issue.. I just don’t believe in Gregs way of handling it, I dont see the County recovering at all for that matter because there is a line drawn in the sand now and appears your either for the resolution or your against it..There is no happy medium and I am at the point I am tired of it as well and I made the decision to get out…

  34. Just CAUSE

    WhyHereWhyNow, 13. May 2008, 15:21 –

    Yes..

    I had to piss you all off to get back on the subject, I have not had pleasant experiences in my old neighborhood with the Latino, El Salvadorian culture and therfore I chose to leave. I am also smart enough to accept that the influx of immigrants into this county at the rate it happened has to be the reason PWC is in the shape it is in.. but I am open enough to understand that at the end of the day we are all human beings and there has to be a resolution that all sides can agree on..How or when we will get there is not going to happen anytime soon and I am afraid PWC won’t recover because of it….

  35. Mando

    “Mando, did you make that up or did you assume it was true because someone you agree with made it up? Either way, people who avoid reality-based solutions and trust demagogues before experts are being proven wrong all over the country”

    This is the company that was working on the site in Richmond that got raided by ICE and their board of directors:

    http://www.turnerconstruction.com/tompkins/content.asp?d=3909

    I didn’t make that up.

  36. Mando

    “Mando,
    Are you a white male, between the ages of 25-35, fairly educated? You fall into the profile of a serial murderer, should we deport you so that innocent people don’t die?”

    I’m not a serial murderer. If I were an illegal alien, then by law, I should be deported.

  37. Not Me, Bubba

    Dr. Fuller explained this in one of the videos from earlier.”

    You mean the same Dr. who sits on a board of a construction company that happily employs illegal aliens, from which he profits? Yes, he is truly an unbiased and wise source in this scenario…

  38. WhyHereWhyNow

    Not Me, Bubba, you should have read more closely. Someone named Mando already cut and pasted the same ignorant and inaccurate, poke-your-head-in-the sand argument for not listening to Dr. Fuller or any other expert in favor of demagogues like Gospel Greg and propaganda posts like F.A.I.R. The other clone beat you to it!

  39. Mando

    LOL… no place for facts here…

  40. WhyHereWhyNow

    Just Cause, you don’t have to be pro-immigrant to have concern about bad policy that effects the entire community in so many complex and interrelated ways. The economy is not just a barometer of profit margins for the wealthy, it is the life blood that funds our schools, our public services, our police, fire and rescue, etc. When our board takes rash actions that injure our economy, we not only cripple our schools, public services, fire and rescue, etc, we also discourage people from coming here to live. We discourage businesses from taking root here. We discourage investors from investing here.

    Like you, and many others who have left for other counties, we are also missing out on investment and new businesses that opt for counties with good reputations that are not in a disturbing cycle of budget cuts caused by lower tax revenues caused by bad policies caused by fear of new immigrants.

    I can understand why you wanted to move out of a neighborhood you see as deteriorating. Many of us would like to have that kind of financial flexibility. But you cannot simply blame the ethnicity, OR the documentation status, of your new neighbors for the deterioration of a neighborhood.

    Remember, the same arguments were made against African Americans moving into suburbs and into cities from the rural South a few generations ago. To this day I’m still confused about whether African Americans indeed required more public services than anyone else, or if the whole thing was a myth to turn the nation against public services in general and in favor of “welfare reform.” Are African Americans more likely to commit crimes? Or are they more likely to be incarcerated for crimes? (Perhaps someone knows the truth.)

    In any case, people from different subcultures and different socio-economic backgrounds are going to have problems getting along at first. New immigrants adjust slowly, they always have. But their children become every bit as American as you and I — if you accept the fact that “American” is not defined by any particular race, a basic foundation for my own definition of patriotism.

    Many of us would go on record as saying that the Immigration Resolution was an unethical way to deal with this problem, in particular the Police portion of the Resolution, which not only seemed to institutionalize racial profiling, but also made us less safe by taking Officers off the streets to do immigration paper work, and hampering their ability to investigate crimes that involve immigrant victims and/or witnesses.

    But even if you have no problem with using the Police as a way to drive out an unwanted population, you have to recognize that time and time again, from Arizona, to Riverside, NY, to Prince William County, VA — when local and state governments have enacted such policies, the impact on the economy has been drastic, devastating, and clearly and demonstrably attributable to the loss of tax revenue, loss of spending, and loss of labor force caused by bad legislation. In all three cases, the legislation was revoked or altered with in a year.

    While there may not yet be a majority of Americans whose ethics preclude them from treating any community of people living among us in this way, there IS a majority of Americans, and thankfully a majority of legislators, who are capable of putting the common good above the interests of Washington DC anti-immigrant lobbyists and local constituents uncomfortable living among immigrant communities with different cultural and economic backgrounds.

    The economy is the life blood of a democratic society. Thankfully, there are many who understand this.

  41. WhyHereWhyNow

    Woops, I meant Riverside, New Jersey

  42. Elena

    Just Cause,
    You and I disagree. You see, I do not believe that solutions are truly possible until you can agree on the problem. Rick Bentley and others, believe that Greg is putting out truth, and unless and until you can help people see, that Greg puts out selective truth, we will never agree on the “problem”. There is a divergent paradigm of illegal immigration. One set of “facts” will lead you to believe that “illegal”, i.e. hispanics, are dirty, immoral, criminal by nature, stupid, and generally only a drain on society with nothing positive to offer. I, on the other hand, believe that most illegal immigrants, i.e. hispanics, are hard working, risking much to fulfill the American dream that our forefathers and mothers achieved and there is much credible research to support that premise. I do not believe that overall they are a drain, especially given the most recent 7 years where we NEEDED additional labor to BUILD us out of what was surely an impending economic crisis exacerbated by the events of 9-11.

    However, I do also believe we must have border security, we must know who is in our country,and we must have a sustainable population. I also believe that there has been no discernable difference in rhetoric towards the hipanic illegal immigrant than the Irish, Italian, or any other ethnic group. I do not believe that people who have concerns about their neighborhoods changing are racist. I do not believe that people concerned about porous borders are racist. I don’t believe it is ever wrong to wonder or question, makes someone an “american”. I do believe it is wrong to scapegoat an entire population based on ignorance and propoganda. I do believe it is wrong to reduce people to names such as parasites or cockroaches. I do believe it is wrong to generalize about an entire population in a negative way.

  43. Too busy to log on much lately, but I can see GL’s pseudo-lawyers have been out and about accusing everyone else of being pro-illegal immigration while the rest of the conversation is necessarily reduced to counteracting the verbal attacks of propagandists instead of discussing rational solutions. Apparently, I haven’t missed anything important or meaningful except for the WP article which I can now read. Thanks for posting it.

  44. Lucky Duck

    Elena, you and I agree to a point. We both agree that its wrong to demonize an entire population for the misgivings of a few. We agree that people who bemoan the changes in their neighborhoods are not necessarily racists, just slow to accept or like changes where they live. We also agree that an immigrant’s children, if born elsewhere, readily adapt to becoming Americanized and if born here, are as American as you and I. We are both for secure borders and agree our immigration system is completely broken. We also agree that regardless of a person’s legal or illegal status, when such person is encountered, they should be treated with the dignity accorded any person.

    Where we seem to diverge from what I’ve read so far is that I don’t feel that someone living in the shadows and having illegal status should be accorded the fast track (under legislation) to citizenship. If we as an economy are in need of additional population for our labor force, then what about those who are sitting in their home countries waiting to immigrate the legal way? They don’t share a land border with this country and can’t enter illegally. If we are working towards a new immigration policy and opening our borders to 12 million new citizens, I don’t feel that all or most should go to those who entered illegally. Some should be made to leave, who that is I will leave up to the policy. But to deny or delay entry to someone who has patiently waited at home to reward someone who violated the civil laws of this country by entering illegally bothers my sense of fair play. Yes, there will be some pain for those who have to leave, but that is a chance they took. We as a nation have always rewarded those who played by the rules, we should do no less with our immigration policy changes.

  45. Elena

    Lucky Duck,
    I don’t think we are that far apart in any of this discussion. I wonder if there isn’t a way to do some of both of what you are referencing regarding those who are here illegally and those who are waiting to come legally. I agree, just because a certain population shares a border, they should not get preferential treatment necessarily. But the reality is that there is no “proverbial” waiting line. I really wish, there were a symposium in NoVA that addressed all these issues we are talking about. One with scholars and immigration experts to give us some insight into fair and equitable solutions. There is a part of me though that really wants to put this into historical perspective also. I have said this before, immigration has always been contentious and will probably always be contentious. As our world becomes smaller, I only see the issues we face today, becoming much worse if we can’t create a workable flexible solution to immigration, not just today, but for the future.

  46. Kenneth Reynolds

    Elena, 13. May 2008, 11:59

    Wait, don’t we all know that overcrowding is due to “illegals”. Once we take them out of the equation, we won’t need more schools….right? NO, wrong wrong wrong. We have had rampant housing development approved without the necessary infrastructure in place either before approval or in conjunction with rezonings. Battlefield High School and Alvey are well beyond capacity and they are only 3 years old.

    ENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED – YOU ARE SO RIGHT ELENA…….AND WITH 86 SCHOOOLS, JUST WHAT KIND OF IMPACT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT…BEFORE WE ARE DONE, MAYBE WE CAN SHOW THAT THESE SIFTS ARE COSTING THE COUNTY $ GIVEN THE LOSS OF FEDERAL AND STATE AID!!!

  47. Kenneth Reynolds

    Just CAUSE, 13. May 2008, 14:17

    1. Ok Im going to come right out and ask all the

    Do you think illegal immigration is a problem..Yes or No

    cut and dry, simple and to the point..Cause I was getting the impression that we ALL agreed the illegal population was out of control and needed some reform and that we are all in a disagreement on how is going to take place..right???

    KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED – YOU SOUND LIKE SEAN HANNITY WITH YOUR YES AND NO WORLD…..THE ANSWER IS ….EVERYTHING IS A PROBLEM…….LOCAL GOVT IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ENFORCING FEDERAL LAWS….FCS, STEWART DOENST KNOW HOW TO ENFORCE LOCAL ORDINANCES…NO HEADLINES THERE ANYWAY…SO HE IS ONE OF FAIR’S LACKEY’S!!!

  48. Firedancer

    WhyHereWhyNow, 13. May 2008, 16:58: Thank you for expressing my sentiments so eloquently.

    LuckyDuck, our economy is so dependent on the labor of immigrants, illegal and legal, that I don’t know how this mess can be unraveled, truly. It’s not so simple as saying go back and wait in line. And we do have a special relationship and responsibility to the countries that share our border and our hemisphere. There is an alternate reality with workers coming and going, sending money home to support their families and their economies. Because of this extreme interdependence, lack of work here has the ability to destabilize the entire region. And this country has certainly meddled plenty in their economies and politics.

  49. Elena

    Firedancer,
    More relevant points. There is no easy answer.

  50. Moon-howler

    Lucky Duck,

    Good evening. In principle, I agree about rewarding those who have pushed ahead of others. However, Elena is correct. Most countries have no line. How about those who are here illegally because they have overstayed a visa? How do we convince those who are here illegally to leave and come back the right way? I don’t have the answers to those questions.

    Until we have a more realistic immigration policy, I just don’t think those things are possible.

Comments are closed.