According to the Wasington Post, the drop in ESOL students isn’t truly saving the schools the $6 million that Corey repeatedly suggests. If we remove the $2 million of additional state funding then the ‘savings’ start to look more like $4 million. At this point we start to reach numbers that according to Corey himself are insignificant in an $850+ million dollar budget. Of course, if the trend continues it could have an affect on school construction etc… This year’s double digit losses in real estate assessments combined with a staggering forecloser rate and an over abundance of homes on the market that now appear to be selling at dirt cheap prices leads me to believe next year’s assessments will again suffer debilitating losses. How does this translate into next year’s budget since schools are mainly funded through real estate assessment taxes, only time will tell.

State education aid is distributed to school systems according to poverty and enrollment data and provides nearly half of Prince William’s annual school funding. When students leave a school system, so does state funding. David S. Cline, director of financial services for Prince William schools, estimated that the reduction in state funding this school year because of the ESOL student exodus totaled $2 million. But the school system was unable to reduce spending accordingly because students left from many schools. Officials could not reduce teaching staff, for example, or send back textbooks.

117 Thoughts to “Savings in ESOL Drop Insignificant”

  1. LuckyDuck

    Hi everyone. I agree there is no “line”. What I am talking about is the lottery system for Visas that is in place for a variety of other immigrants from other countries that do not share a border with us. I have relatives that are/have been trying for years to “win the lottery” to gain legal entry in the US.

    I disagree Firedancer, just because we share a border with someone’s country, they should not get special treatment in admission to this Country. If you are using the fact that we have meddled in other country’s affairs, well, we’ve done that all over the world, not just Latin America.

    Moon Howler, I think if you have overstayed a visa, you should be made to leave. That type of person has had the opportunity to come and they repaid the favor by disobeying a civil law on an intentional basis. Lets give someone who obeys the law a chance in their place.

  2. Lucky Duck, glad you brought up some points last night before I went to bed. And glad there seemed to be more discussion going on than what I saw posted earlier (thanks Elena, MH, and everyone else). Don’t know about you, but the endless repeating of things like “I am not pro-illegal” is boring. Besides that, if you have to keep defending yourself to the same people, chances are they aren’t going to change their minds anyway. So forget about them. They can post what they want, but basically, they are just taking up space.

    Anyway, Lucky, it seems what you are really wanting is first, some kind of consequence for coming here illegally, and second, a deterrent so other will not think, “Hey! This is the way to do it!”

    So first, consequences. Let’s assume that Congress gets its act together and finally comes to a decision. Now let’s assume they allow non-criminal, undocumented immigrants to earn citizenship. Here are some of the consequences undocumented immigrants already have had and some they will have if the legislation changes:

    1. They’ve been targeted victims of discrimination. That in itself is a consequence, intentional or otherwise. This cannot be pleasant.
    2. They’ve been living in hiding. Again, not pleasant. They can’t drive, they can’t vote, and they can’t full participate in society. They might have been detained while awaiting deportation.
    3. They would have to show up somewhere to get their paperwork straightened out. This is a lot harder when you’ve been here and can’t FIND your documentation. You might have to contact your country to get it or you might even have to go BACK to get it. (Yes, this would satisfy the “go back and do it right people.) Getting things like birth certificates isn’t always as easy as we think, even in THIS country!
    4. They would have to get their taxes straightened out. They might owe back taxes. Again, this is easier if you come here legally. And it’s less financially burdensome.
    5. They might have to find new jobs, depending on the situation, especially if they have to return to their countries to get documentation.
    6. Their families have been and will continue to be negatively impacted by this even IF the path to citizenship is made available to them. Still, it’s probably better than deportation.

    So, okay, you tell the whole world this is what coming here illegally brings. Get some more immigrants to testify to their struggles. These are consequences and deterrents all their own.

    But here’s the other thing–in this scenario, let’s assume we can get more enforcement at the borders at the same time this legislation happens. The policy should say something like, “We’re working with this problem, but if you come here illegally after today, you will be deported immediately.” Fair warning, right? Deterrent, yes? Feasible to implement? Yes. We just need to hire more people to do it.

  3. “I disagree Firedancer, just because we share a border with someone’s country, they should not get special treatment in admission to this Country.” I wouldn’t say “special treatment” but it seems to me that the borders between Mexico and the U.S. have been pretty loosey-goosey for a long time.

    So sure, step up border control, but don’t penalize people here when a precedent has been set over many years. It’s like the seatbelt law–when it was first implemented, many people got away with a “warning” the first time they violated it. After a time, though, the law became standard and NO ONE got a warning. This is the kind of evolution we are looking for.

  4. LuckyDuck

    Kgotthardt, there really is no way to fix this system without some compromising on both sides. While I accept your list of consequences for being here illegally as listed above, there are still people in a host of other nations that do not share borders that would take all of those problems just to be here when the law changes and have an inside track to stay. I realize that immigrants today have mighty struggles, but they are (as you have demonstrated) because they are here illegally. Having said that, I realize that they are in fact, here, and not going anywhere.

    I guess my compromise would be that if the path to citizenship is passed by congress, that those that don’t qualify (criminals, don’t pay taxes, found to have used other’s ID to work, etc.) MUST be made to leave. No heartstring stories about why they should stay for their children, their families in other countries etc. Not everyone will qualify and not everyone should stay. Those slots should be given to other countries for the lottery system so those who have played the system legally have an increased chance to come here. Not quite the same chance as those who came here illegally, but an increased chance.
    After this legislation (and something will come forth in 2009/2010) those who enter illegally simply MUST be deported. No more sob stories about needing to come here and letting them stay.

  5. Not Me, Bubba

    “Not Me, Bubba, you should have read more closely. Someone named Mando already cut and pasted the same ignorant and inaccurate, poke-your-head-in-the sand argument for not listening to Dr. Fuller or any other expert in favor of demagogues like Gospel Greg and propaganda posts like F.A.I.R. The other clone beat you to it!”

    LOL…so instead of addressing the fact that Dr. Fuller is a profiteer of illegal labor, you choose to instead focus on the fact I didn’t scroll down fast enough and read where Mando injected that bit of truth?

    And pray-tell how is it ignorant or irrelevant that the very man who people here regard as the be-all, end-all expert on why we need immigrants – is himself a profiteer of illegal labor? I’m sure you could find plenty of other “experts” in the construction and service industries who would parrot his line as well – all people who have profited off of illegal labor.

    And while I am NO fan of GL or the movement he has created or the issues for which he stands (for if YOU had been following my posts, you would know I do not parrot FAIR policies or GL’s stance in any way, or any of the other craptastic sheet he posts), I am somehow pandering to pseudo-demagogues like Greg and the nationalists of FAIR? So it’s okay that Dr. Fuller employs illegals and speaks on the many, many virtues of employing them (while he himself profits off of their sweat), but it isn’t okay for GL to cite the architects of FAIR as experts because they’re anti-immigrant and profit off of their policies?

    My,my – pot, meet kettle….

  6. (criminals, don’t pay taxes, found to have used other’s ID to work, etc.) I don’t think being behind on taxes because of the lack of documentation should be grounds for deportation. They can fix that. But what you cannot fix are families separated, traumatized, and left behind with no means of income. What do you think will happen to the social service system if we let this happen? People always complain that “illegals use up all our services” and are “moochers” off the system, but they want to make this worse? No, that’s not reasonable or economically responsible.

    Bubba, I know I missed this discussion, but where is it stated (proven?) that Dr. Fuller benefited from illegals? Can someone re-cap for me?

  7. Lucky do you really think people who have used another person’s ID or visa should be deported if that is their ONLY offense? Seems to me this needs to go on a case by case basis when it comes to things like that.

  8. Not Me, Bubba

    KG:

    http://www.turnerconstruction.com/tompkins/content.asp?d=3909

    Fuller sits on their board. This is the company that was cited for having used 33 illegals in constructing the Federal Courthouse in Richmond.

    Apparantly he has a motive in citing the virtues and benefits of illegal labor…”unbiased” my rear-end.

  9. Not Me, Bubba

    “Lucky do you really think people who have used another person’s ID or visa should be deported if that is their ONLY offense? ”

    I’m not answering for LD, but for myself – absolutely YES. It is ID theft (something this country is currently plagued with – that is causing dire financial harm to thousands of Americans) and ID theft is a very serious crime.

    I hope I don’t have to go into detail as to the other reasons why ID theft is not only wrong, but a national security threat…

  10. LuckyDuck

    Kgotthardt, have you ever tried to clear you record of the morass after someone has used your identity? People have obtained credit cards, car loans, even mortgages in other people’s names. In many examples they ruin the innocent victim’s credit. It takes years, yes years, to for someone to clear their name and repair their credit after somebody else has used it. Not to mention the tax problems the victims encounter. How can we determine which illegal alien has paid taxes if they are using someone else’s SSN? What happens to the victim’s SSN account years down the road?

    Yes, I do think that identity fraud is a very serious offense – particulary for the victims – and that should exclude someone from the path to legalization.

  11. Not Me, Bubba

    LOL…

    Here’s a treat for you all….

    http://consumerist.com/5008691/ups-wont-deliver-womans-envelope-until-she-shows-her-green-card

    “Caught somewhere between post 9/11 security concerns and personal rights is Cristina Bustos. According to the Palm Beach Post, her relatives from Mexico shipped her an envelope that contains the birth certificates for 2 of her relatives that live in Florida. But instead of receiving the envelope, Cristina, a legal resident, received a phone call saying that her envelope was being detained in Louisville and that “she needs to identify herself further before receiving them.” Later, a UPS employee told Christina that she had to email a copy of her green card if she wanted to get her envelope. Details, inside…”

  12. Paco

    The drop in attendance within the PWC School System is welcomed by the majority! No matter how it’s spun, less students mean a savings of $$$.

    These student all received free lunches and paid for Zero so how is this not a savings?

  13. Paco2

    I agree ‘Paco’, we don’t need schools. My husband and I never had children and don’t like paying our hard earned money for someone elses snot-nosed brats to get an education at our expense. Let their own parents pay for it! They are the ones who decided to have all these babies that they can not afford. Close public schools and make everyone pay their own way. This is the fair thing to do.

  14. Rick Bentley

    You guys can pontificate all you want, the bottom line is the citizens of PWC don’t want to live next to people who don’t speak English and who overcrowd and ruin neighborhoods, and we support what is happening, the majority of us. We know what we saw all around us and what we lived through.

  15. Rick Bentley

    Stephen Fuller should be tarred, feathered, and have his citizenship revoked as far as I;’m concerned … my neighborhood was runined rather directly for his personal profit.

  16. Not Me, Bubba

    More local news on the immigration situation…

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/13/AR2008051302784.html

    “Arlington County, which prides itself on racial tolerance and economic diversity and has sneered at anti-immigrant policies in nearby jurisdictions, now finds itself facing some of the same questions.

    Many longtime residents are voicing fears that a new zoning proposal will bring an influx of immigrants and poor people. Support for affordable housing initiatives is almost an article of faith in the Democrat-dominated enclave, but the proposal to allow rental units in single-family neighborhoods is challenging that orthodoxy. ”

    More at link….

  17. bubberella

    “citizens of PWC don’t want to live next to people who don’t speak English and who overcrowd and ruin neighborhoods”

    I don’t care for my nextdoor neighbors who speak southern redneck, run an unlicensed day care with cars in my front of my house Monday through Friday, and have dangerous pit bulls who often get out of the yard and run the neighborhood. But as an adult, I just deal with it. If it gets too bad, I’ll move.

  18. anon

    I don’t care whether someone in my neighborhood speaks English or not. What I do care about, and has happened, is overcrowding, trashing the neighborhood with constant beer bottles, broken glass, loud noise at all hours of the night, etc., and a general disregard for the law (when you neighbor breaks into your house you know it is time to get out!). Again, it doesn’t matter to me whether they speak English or not as far as I’m concerned (regarding the comment “citizens of PWC don’t want to live next to people who don’t speak English and who overcrowd and ruin neighborhoods”. If you take the “who don’t speak English” out of the sentence then I definitely agree with it.

  19. Rick Bentley

    Well let me restate thusly … change “people who don’t speak English” to “large groups of people who don’t speak English”.

  20. WhyHereWhyNow

    Rick Bentley said: “The bottom line is the citizens of PWC don’t want to live next to people who don’t speak English and who overcrowd and ruin neighborhoods, and we support what is happening, the majority of us.”

    Bentley, you are free to choose your neighbors. You can do that by moving. It’s what we call “white flight.” If you don’t like the skin color, culture, or language ability of a group of people, one thing you CANNOT do is pollute the Police force with your hateful and cynical political motivations. The Police should not be used this way in a free society. The Police should not be used to target a minority population… no matter WHAT justification you have for deeming them inferior to you: even national origin, even skin color, and yes, even legal status.

    It is opinions like yours (and NOT those of us who challenge them) that give Prince William County a bad reputation above and beyond what our hapless Board of Supervisors allowed to happen last fall. It’s because of you that Prince William County has to deal with comparisons to Nazi Germany. Wanting immigration reform does not mean we share your view by any means. But by mouthing off like that, you give us all a bad name.

    Not only is your post disgusting. It’s also untrue. Gospel Greg has 2000 people on his email list — that is a fraction of the population (400,000) and a fraction of that population voted last November to re-elect Stewart/Letiecq and Stirrup. Many of them were moderate Republicans who didn’t have time to follow the issue, and didn’t know any better than to trust that their party still stands for something other than staying in power at any cost. An honest mistake that many have come to regret.

    Also, even if neighborhood issues trumps American ideals such as liberty and equality, a very small percentage of PWC lives near people “who don’t speak English and who overcrowd and ruin neighborhoods.” The rest of us are not nearly as motivated to turn Prince William County into a Police State. We would like to help our fellow PWC residents resolve conflicts, deal with their neighborhood issues, and assimilate new immigrants. But we did not, will not, and will never allow a Police crackdown to destroy our community and our economy.

    Now that the consequences have manifested, the real majority has spoken, and the law has been changed. Xenophobes will have to find another county in which to congregate. Prince William County will not be a racist retreat in the middle of modern day America.

    You may regret this inevitable victory, Bentley. But the true patriots are celebrating quietly, and praying that the xenophobe extremists among us do not take the law into their own hands.

  21. Rick Bentley

    The old chestnut “What par of illegal don’t you understand” would be one possible answer to that diatribe … and the hazards of bilingualism and the lowering of American wages are real things …

    But the big problem from a PWC resident’s view is the overcrowding. here in America we have a higher standard of living and I thought we were trying to get people OUT of poverty, not celebrating and sliding towards a degraded standard of living.

    Efforts to attack overcrowding won’t and don’t work because of liberal and activist judges and ACLU types fighting for people’s rights to engage in identity fraud, not to speak English to zoning inspectors, and generally to make a joke out of the notion of rule of law. However, illegal is still illegal, and that is the one way we have to fight the problem of people coming in to our neighborhoods and transforming houses into hotels.

  22. Mando

    WhyHereWhyNow said:

    “a very small percentage of PWC lives near people “who don’t speak English and who overcrowd and ruin neighborhoods.”

    I just wanted to emphasize your statement to show how out of touch you are.

    You and the five other regular posters on anti-bvbl preaching form your segragated communities rings hollow in my and the majority of other PWC residents ears. If you’d like to see the true racist, just look in the mirror.

    Your support of illegal-labor is a slap in the face to the working class citizens of this country and your rhetoric is disgusting.

  23. Rick Bentley

    WHWN do you live here? I have noticed a sea change on this issue recently. A lot of well-meaning types who had sympathy for their illegal neighbors became disgusted over time.

  24. WhyHereWhyNow

    I do live in the county but not in an area where there is much racial diversity. I thought for a long time that this disqualified me from commenting on the “issue.” I tried to put myself in the place of those who are concerned about neighbors who don’t seem to follow certain rules of decorum like not having chickens running around or not growing corn. I tried to put myself in the position of an elderly person who grew up in an era when the races lived separately, who might to this day be afraid of people who have darker skin. I couldn’t blame people for their fears. You can’t blame someone for an emotion or instict. But it’s what you do in response to that emotion or instinct that separates humans from animals, and it is the way in which we settle cultural and racial differences that separates the United States from other nations with less freedom, less principles, and less democratic forms of government. So as a matter of principle, I was against the Resolution, but I did not speak out until recently.

    When I realized that the Resolution was impacted everyone, not just immigrants and not just elderly people gripped by their emotions, I began to form an opinion based on more than my personal values, my belief in family, the rights of children and American ideals such as equality, justice, and liberty (since those are applied selectively in this day and age).

    In sum, I oppose you on moral grounds, I oppose you based on the principles that make our country great, and I oppose you on a basis of fiscal responsibility, sound policy, and a utilitarian sense of the common good.

    The only thing we agree upon is that some people in this day and age still prefer to live among their own kind. I’m not sure what to do about that, but the Police can have a very limited role in sorting this out if we are to remain a free nation that lives by the principles on which it was founded.

  25. Rick Bentley

    You would feel differently if there were 12 people living in the house next to you, endless traffic of unknown persons in your neighborhood, no criminal background check known or available on those persons walking around your house all day, loud music annoying you through your bedroom wall, loud music from cars passing by at all times of night, and people leering at your teenaged daughter like wolves. I didn’t exaggerate any of those things – Lived through them all 2006-2007. It changed my perception. I believe it would change yours also.

    As opionated as you are about abstract notions of what morality means, I have a feeling that if your peace of mind and safety were threatened, you’d be all the more opinionated.

  26. Rick Bentley

    My neighbors on the other side of this flophouse were very tolerant and hesitant to criticize … now a bit later they feel quite differently after what they lived through.

  27. Mando

    @WHWN

    And like the racist hypocrits in Arlington, your tune will change when someone buys the house next to you, adds “accesory rental units”, and rents to 10+ strange men. And I’ll be the first to call you out on it.

    I live in a racially diverse neighborhood and I appreciate that. What I don’t appreciate are racist hypocrits like you preaching to me from your segrated enclave about compassion for illegal labor that you benefit from economically at the cost of the rest of society. Then you have to gaul to hide behind your “morality” and “common good” while the rest of us citizens feel the brunt of the economic and societal costs that come from those that use black market labor. When you idolize an economist that preaches the benefits of any black market good, ESPECIALLY one that profits from that good, while sneering at the societal impacts to those legal citizens that have been displaced by the use of that good it’s time to take a deep look at your moral values.

  28. anon

    Regarding the leering at teenaged girls: On my block there is one person who walks his teenage daughter from the bus stop at the end of the street to his townhouse due to the wolf whistles his daughter was getting from the occupants of one townhouse on the block. When groups move in that don’t respect social norms, that is the problem. Somehow, several houses on my block with many occupants seem to think this kind of behavior is perfectly fine. I’ve seen other threads here where we should be “educating” these folks about what is acceptable. My take is if they don’t already know this kind of behavior is unacceptable, there isn’t much hope for them. Again, it is easy for people to talk about who don’t live with this on a day to day basis.

    Anyway, my townhouse is going up for sale, so I welcome anyone who would like to buy it and experience this first hand, and see if they can make a positive change. My wife who is home alone in the daytime doesn’t feel safe – if she works in the backyard the folks next door stand on their deck and just stare at her! As I said, if they haven’t figured out by now in their adult life that this is not normal behavior, I don’t see much hope for them. I certainly am glad I don’t have any children or I wouldn’t feel they would be safe. This, in a neighborhood that was brand new in 1985!

  29. WhyHereWhyNow

    I sympathize with all of your concerns. If rude people whistled at my daughter, however, I would not memorize the racial characteristics of those individuals and apply my resentment to all who share those characteristics. If there was a house that was crowded next to me, I would not be concerned with the nation of origin of the inhabitants more so than the number. If there were cars on the road, I would not assume I know the documentation status of the owners. In sum, all of those things would frustrate me, but they could not turn me into a person who blames, resents, dislikes, or chooses to move away from any particular race or classification of people.

    As I’ve said, you are free to prefer that people only speak languages you know well. I prefer the same. But it is not your right to enlist our local police in enforcing such preferences by removing the population that offends you by force or by intimidation.

    How many times do we have to remind you that language skills and whistle calls are NOT certain indicators of legal status???? You don’t know who you’re hating when you hate, you don’t know who you’re judging when you judge, you don’t know who you’re blaming when you blame.

    That said, those of you who live among dark-skinned immigrants at least have some personal experience by which to make your generalizations and prejudgments.

    The people that disappoint me the most are ones who live in my neighborhood (which is not gated or all that wealthy by the way, but mostly Caucasian) who have make the same generalizations with ZERO interaction with anyone they might even imagine is undocumented. Their hate is generated by their TV sets. I find that astounding.

    And Mando, you seem to agree with me that black market labor is not a good thing. That’s why John McCain, George Bush, Jeb Bush, and every reasonable Republican is saying the same thing: require workers to become citizens, make them pay a fine, bring them out of the shadows, let us know who is in our country, and allow our economy to grow and compete with nations like China and India who have a nearly unlimited supply of labor. If we take the xenophobe approach and make 12 million people disappear, we are destroying the nation in the name of antiquated ethnic ratios and little else that I can see.

    When the “illegals” are no longer “illegal.” Your only beef will be that their brown. Then what will you say to justify your Police State?

  30. Not Me, Bubba

    “and allow our economy to grow and compete with nations like China and India who have a nearly unlimited supply of labor”

    Yeah, because the US has such a HUGE, growing manufacturing base…

    And because construction, agribusiness and service economy jobs are sure fire ways to beat those nations’ economies to a pulp.

    Frankly, you haven’t a clue.

  31. Mando

    “and allow our economy to grow and compete with nations like China and India who have a nearly unlimited supply of labor”

    And an unlimited supply of poverty. The U.S. is not an emerging economy. To compete with the likes of China and India right now would be to digress back 100 years to the times of sweat shops and extremely low standards of living.

    “When the “illegals” are no longer “illegal.” Your only beef will be that their brown. ”

    Your ASSumption is dead wrong. I have no problem with my hispanic neighbors because they’re hispanic. I do have a problem with a couple of houses across me that house 10+ strange men each that rotate on an irregular basis.

  32. anon

    It is “hard not to memorize the racial characteristics” of the ones doing this, when several households on this block are guilty of the kind of behavior mentioned above, and unfortunately are all Hispanic. If I could find a Hispanic household on this block that was quiet and law abiding, that would make me happy and I would welcome them. But unfortunately none exists, at least on this street. Again, it is easy for people to say these things without having to contend with it on a daily basis.

  33. Mando

    “If I could find a Hispanic household on this block that was quiet and law abiding, that would make me happy and I would welcome them.”

    I have two and they’re fine neighbors. It’s the two flop houses across from me that I have a problem with and the funny thing is, my hispanic neighbors that don’t run flop houses want nothing to do with them either.

  34. anon

    Maybe that’s the problem, here the Hispanic households on this street all appear to be flophouses, unfortunately. They also seem to have people moving in and out all the time. I don’t know how many nights I’ve woken up to moving activity in the wee hours of the night. Odd that it always is then that they choose to do this! The sounds of furniture clanking off trucks and into houses is not something that is very pleasant to try and sleep to. It has happened at least 4 times in the past 3 months.

  35. Mando

    I’m lucky in that I usually sleep like a rock, but I have been witness to the parade of cars coming out of the back yard of one of the houses. To get one car out, I counted 7 being pulled out from the back of the house (two of which did not have tags). It’s a hidden back yard that backs up to woods so lickety split the entire parade was over in less then 15 minutes with nary a sign it ever happened.

  36. LuckyDuck

    Why Here Why Now, hello….
    In your previous three posts in this thread you have mentioned “police state” or police enforcement 7 times. I think this is disparaging for you to do that to those specific public employees. I would ask you to give me a specific example of one action taken by the local police department that demonstrates THOSE individuals are propagating a “police state”.

    You have stated that “I would not memorize the racial characteristics of those individuals and apply my resentment to all who share those characteristics”, well I would state to you that your generalization of an entire police department (500 plus sworn) is much the same tatic. You are painting 20% of the County workforce as jackbooted thugs and I think that is wrong. Unless of course you have specific examples of members of the department acting that way, in which case you need to file a complaint for the good of us all.

    As I have stated in prior posts, our county employees in two services (police and social services) are being treated as political footballs for the first time. They don’t need additional bad press on this blog without specific examples. Give me the names if you will.

    Before you jump to another conclusion, I am not fully supportive of the Resolution of Law, there are parts that I dislike with a passion, but I can sense the frustration of others who do deal with issues on a daily basis. I support working with neighborhood services and zoning and yes, I do believe the 287(G) program belongs in jail 24/7. I also support the six officers on the criminal alien unit having ICE powers because its a powerful investigative tool and can get the worst of the worst off of our neighborhood streets, which most, if not all of us support.

    But get off the police department’s back or saddle up and get a uniform to see how they work.

  37. anon

    Mando – I’ve seen them move tags from one car to the other and then back to the original car after several days! Pretty funny actually, but would be interesting if they got pulled over with tags from a different car!

  38. Red Dawn

    Anon,

    Do you have a video camera to catch the tag shuffle and are they parked on a public street?

  39. WhyHereWhyNow

    I support the Prince William County Police force 100 percent. Just because the word “police” is in the phrase “police state” doesn’t mean I am disparaging them. Now that that’s cleared up, do have any actual disagreement about how our police should prioritize the limited resources and manpower they have? My point is that the following concerns should not be addressed using a massive law enforcement action to remove an undesirable population:

    1) maintaining traditional racial majorities and minorities, 2) enforcing language proficiency of one’s neighbors, 3) language proficiency at McDonald’s or Burger King, 4) enforcing housing codes like overcrowding, the keeping of chickens, or improper vegetables 5) traffic congestion and to many cars parked on streets or on lawns 6) rude behavior in the presence of ladies

    If I’ve missed any complaints, let me know. What unites them ALL is the basic fact that documentation status is an invisible quality that can be adjusted. If “illegal is illegal” is truly the only agitation here, then requiring all workers to become citizens solves the problem. John McCain has been saying this for years, while the state legislature of Arizona went ahead and destroyed their state economy losing billions of dollars in less than a year before realizing their folly and reversing course.

  40. anon

    It’s in a townhouse lot, although one of the cars they park in the back yard believe it or not. So the car without a tag is parked on their property. Although how parking in a back yard of a townhouse is considered OK, I don’t know. Did try complaining to homeowner’s association, but didn’t seem to get much action out of them.

  41. WhyHereWhyNow

    Mando, I’m glad to hear you don’t have any issues with Hispanics. Could you talk to some of the others on this thread who have taken to complaining about Hispanics only without any mention of invisible documentation status?

    Since you will no longer have an issue once the undocumented workers are required to become citizens in order to keep their jobs, why don’t you give it a rest for the next year instead of wasting all this time fighting with people who agree with you?

  42. Lucky Duck

    Hi WHWN (sorry, long name to write), When you write of a “police state”, who enforces the rules of a police state? The police department does. So the numerous mention of asking do you want the police to do this or that does implicate the local men and women. But I accept your explanation, thank you.

    With regards to your listing above of priorities, the local department, from what I have read and observed, is not tasked with checking the language skills of people at McDonalds or people’s neighbors. That is not part of the resolution and not done, at least I know of no examples of it being done. If it is, than its wrong. Nor do I know of any part of the resolution or examples of the local pd “maintaining traditional majorities and minorities”. The local police department in no way deals with overcrowded homes, according to the County website, that is solely the jurisdiction of the zoning department.

    I do believe that the police should be concerned with traffic congestion and parking violations as well as cars parked on lawns. These are commonly enforced and I can show you parking ticket receipts from my years past. I also believe that if there is rude behavior going on that can lead to more violent behavior, then I would want the victim to call the police before the situation escalates. Finally, if some one in a neighborhood called the police because there are chickens being raised in the neighborhood, I am ok with that too. Many people call the police because they don’t know who else to call. Since raising chickens in a residential neighborhood can be, in certain instances, a zoning violation and in all instances disallowed by public health, the police can direct the caller in the right direction. Thank you for letting me explain my point.

  43. anon

    WHWN: I do know for a fact that the documentation status of one occupant of the neighboring house was in question. This was the suspect who was identified by another neighbor as breaking into my house. He could not produce any identification for the police, and by the time I returned home several days later, had fled. While perhaps one might argue as to the status of others in that townhouse, I resent the continued implication I’m making generalizations when I have hard facts to support the law breaking I live next to. So stop making generalizations about those of us who are living with the problem.

  44. Kenneth Reynolds

    WhyHereWhyNow, 14. May 2008, 17:17

    I support the Prince William County Police force 100 percent. Just because the word “police” is in the phrase “police state” doesn’t mean I am disparaging them. Now that that’s cleared up, do have any actual disagreement about how our police should prioritize the limited resources and manpower they have? My point is that the following concerns should not be addressed using a massive law enforcement action to remove an undesirable population:

    KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED – WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? THIS WAS NOT THE PWC POLICE IDEA…THEY ARE DOING THIS BECAUSE THEY WERE ORDERED TO BY SUPERVISORS WHO GET THEIR MARCHING ORDERS FROM FAIR!!!!

  45. WhyHereWhyNow

    Right, right. To argue that we are blaming the police for a Resolution passed on the BOCS is kind of like blaming our soldiers for the invasion of Iraq or blaming the Dept. of Treasury for the spending bills passed in Congress.

    I’m simply responding to the list of justifications for the Immigration Resolution as passed in July and partially funded in October. Chickens, corn, cars, crowded houses, too many ESL classes, too many people who need ESL classes, rude people, and too many brown faces at the bus stop. None of them justify drastic legislative action that involves drastic police action and causes drastic damage to our economy, our reputation, and our quality of life.

    I do not think the police should become the strong men when people feel they can blame the deterioration of a neighborhood on any particular race or class of people. Neither do the police.

    The same types of things were said about every immigrant class to come here, as well as African Americans who moved to our suburbs from the rural South.

    If you want immigration reform, and you agree with me that these are dumb reasons to take an extreme position, we can move on to talking about solutions.

    But what I won’t do is talk about solutions with people who can’t even bother to hide the fact that their real problem has little to do with legal status and everything to do with racial breakdowns and culture clashes.

  46. Firedancer

    WhyHereWhyNow, whoever you are, I just want to thank you for your posts today.

  47. Lucky Duck

    WhWn, If that last comment directed at me, I will tell you that I have never, ever, ever stated on this blog or demonstrated anywhere for that matter, that I have a problem with another’s race or culture. If it was, I’d like you to show me. I have been debating, not fighting with you about the issue of demonizing the local police for enforcing the resolution. You stated your part and I saw your point and I made my points. If you drew more out of that to state that I have a problem with different cultures, then you are sadly mistaken. If it was not directed at me, than we can continue to exchange points if you’d like to.

  48. WhyHereWhyNow

    Lucky Duck, apologies. I didn’t mean to imply anything about you personally. I mean, how personal can you be when your name is Lucky Duck and mines is WHWN? (= I harbor no ill will toward you or anyone and honestly can’t even remember who said what most of the time.

  49. Elena

    WhyHereWhyNow, 14. May 2008, 17:17

    Excellent post!

  50. Moon-howler

    I would like to see the documentation that Dr. Fuller knowlingly employs illegal aliens.

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