Tough immigration enforcement with no parallel comprehensive immigration reform, will only bring severe negative consequences to everyone!
Citing a November Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll, the Manhattan Institute’s Tamar Jacoby noted recently that “63 percent of Democrats, 64 percent of Republicans and 57 percent of independents favor allowing illegal immigrants who meet certain conditions — registering, being fingerprinted, paying a fine and learning English — to earn citizenship over time.”
Riverside, NJ
The law had worked. Perhaps, so me said, too well.
With the departure of so many people, the local economy suffered. Hair salons, restaurants and corner shops that catered to the immigrants saw business plummet; several closed. Once-boarded-up storefronts downtown were boarded up again.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/26/nyregion/26riverside.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Arizona
Arizona’s new “enforcement only” immigration law, which mandates the use of an electronic verification system and subjects employers to the loss of their business license for hiring the wrong person, has turned out to be a disaster that might rank up there with the Edsel or New Coke in the pantheon of bone-headed ideas.
The unintended consequences haven’t been pretty, and now the very lawmakers that thumped their chest about getting tough on illegal immigration are trying to enact some sort of state-level guest worker program in order to bring those undocumented immigrants back to the state.
The state had a very low unemployment rate when the law was passed — it was, at least in part, a “solution” to a problem they didn’t have. Unemployment was at 4.1 percent when the law went into effect in January and had been at 3.7 percent when a judge upheld the measure in early 2007.
Arizona is now faced with labor shortages, and when combined with the loss in demand from all those worker-consumers, the whole enchilada might end up costing the state’s economy tens of billions of dollars.
http://www.alternet.org/immigration/85022/?page=1
Prince William County
County business leaders have created “image committees” to examine the direction Prince William is heading. Now, some analysts said, the economic downturn makes it a bad time to carry out the immigration measures.
“It undermines the image of the county as a good place to invest,” said Stephen Fuller, director of the Center for Regional Analysis at George Mason University. “The political environment has made people feel unwelcome.”
Richard L. Hendershot, who chairs the Prince William County Greater Manassas Chamber of Commerce, said it has been hard to sell Prince William as progressive, dynamic and thriving.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/19/AR2008041900943.html?nav=rss_metro
Last month, Prince William County had the most new filings of any Washington area jurisdiction, followed by Prince George’s, Fairfax, Montgomery, Loudoun and the District, according to RealtyTrac Inc., a California-based company that tracks real estate trends.
When foreclosures rise, crime often follows, researchers said. A 2005 study by the Georgia Institute of Technology and the Woodstock Institute found that, holding other factors constant, each foreclosure in a 100-house neighborhood corresponded to a 2.4 percent jump in violent crime.
Law enforcement agencies typically don’t keep statistics for crimes that occur in vacant houses, but the concerns of local officials are mirrored across the nation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/26/AR2008042601288_2.html
I was thinking about this idea of ‘diversity’ and it seems to me that it runs counter to our coined phrase of ‘E Pluribus Unum’ or ‘Out of Many, One’. Diversity seems to stand for ‘Out of Many, Many’. That may indeed be the biggest part of the social problems we face. No one wants to come together with one common interest. That common interest used to be that we all honored, respected, and celebrated America, being American, and the values that America was founded upon. Each morning in school we pledged allegiance to the flag, the American flag, and it wasn’t optional. At lunch the speakers played the Lords Prayer. Immigrants at the time were proud to do the same, because by doing so they felt that they were part of the whole, E Pluribus Unum. Now days with all this ‘diversity’ indoctrination we are just a land full of immigrants that remain immigrants. We can’t even get people to try and assimilate, because we keep pounding home this idea that to assimilate and become one is somehow an anti-immigrant effort bordering on racism. It’s the unity of the people of this great nation that made it great, and gave it the meaning behind what is was to be an American, otherwise it would have remained simply a land of immigrants. I fear that we are turning into just that, a land of immigrants, and nothing more.
SecondAlamo, I understand what you are sayin but I know several immigrant families and they all want to be American citizens. They honor this country. Do you recall the candlelight vigil that was held shortly after 9-11? Americans were asked to come out of their homes and light candles as a remembrance to those who died. Not one American family in my neighborhood, except my family, came out. All the immigrant families in my neighborhood did. In addition, they were wearing T-shirts with American flags. So, I have to disagree in part to what you are saying. I think there many immigrants who want to adopt this as their land and who love this country.
SecondAlamo is starting to tread into the heart of the matter, the question that will drive us to civil war if we cannot find a resolution.
Your arguments on diversity aside, do you equate the United States with God, with being a divine power? is the U.S. mandated to alter whatever diversity their is in the world to protect her “Unity?”
It is strange but it seems your are calling for “National Cultural Unity” at the price of “personal liberty” the liberty to be different, to be an individual, not a lock step cog in a patriotic machine.
Of the thirteen original colonies, how many of them were founded to be a melting pot of culture so we could further unify? None of them, they were set up by religious minority’s and trade companies as places where they were free to be diverse and not be persecuted or forced to integrate into the society’s from which they escaped.
And English, the national language of the U.S. s nothing but a diverse bastard brew of just about every language you can find, it’s roots like so many others going back to proto-caninite, the common language of the middle east thousands of years ago.
America did not just manifest it’s self by the will of God one day with one common people believing in one common cause with one common language, it was built on layers of diverse migration and formed some semblance of a nation upon the points where we agreed, in some cases unity through bloody compromise.
Diversity is the DNA of America with nothing but divine province holding the unstable mass together strong, if we mess with the super structure by imposing a standard of cohesion, the structure will fall apart and it will be left to some other culture to carry on human progress, one that was able to take the best of diversity, compromise with the worst and work together as human beings to better the world.
-RP (Scottish/Hungarian descent, great great great Muslim grandson of Francis Scott Key)
Well Rod, then why ‘E Pluribus Unum’ on every coin we mint, and why ‘In God We Trust’ rhere also? I assume you folks will be fighting to have that changed as well! As I said, gone is America. It’s your refusal to want to find a common theme to unite that is the cause of disunity. Again, I fear we are turning into a land of immigrants. How else could you describe what is happening?
SA,
Please tell me, what is different about the Hispanic immigrant, because this IS what we are, and have been talking about, than the Irish immigrant, than the Italian immigrant, than the chinese immigrant, etc? Eventually, didnt they all integrate? What is the American culture but a new creation of not only surviving, but THRIVING based on our commononality OF diversity? This is what makes American unique. What you are saying, is no different than what has been said with EVERY large influx of immigrants and yet, look at us, we are still a great nation.
Rod2155, I agree with you that Second Alamo has given us a gift by frankly and unashamedly revealing the real source of his anxiety about immigration. But I beg you to read and respond to the best of the three articles this thread was supposed to be about. It simply lays to waste every argument that Second Alamo has made on this blog prior to his “coming out party.”
http://www.alternet.org/immigration/85022/
Later today, I’ll respond to the argument that new immigrants of X generation (Germans, Italians, Irish, Chinese, Japanese, Jews, Hispanics, etc.) are somehow different than the new immigrants of previous generations (Germans, Italians, Irish, Chinese, Japanese, Jews, Hispanics, etc.). But here is a preview:
Tom, I sympathize with your fears. But there is nothing new or complex about the current rash of anti-immigrant sentiment. In simple terms, those who share your perspective have not yet conquered the same unfounded prejudices their great grandfathers relinquished a century ago about the Irish and the Italians.
Indeed, many of your contemporaries and just about all of the younger population is embracing diversity in spite of the hate politics that have been resorted to this decade. I don’t blame you for feeling left out. But the fact that the 21st century is upon us cannot be used an explanation for your misgivings about a particular ethnic group. Time allowing, I’ll provide a better explanation this afternoon.
Citing a November Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll, the Manhattan Institute’s Tamar Jacoby noted recently that “63 percent of Democrats, 64 percent of Republicans and 57 percent of independents favor allowing illegal immigrants who meet certain conditions — registering, being fingerprinted, paying a fine and learning English — to earn citizenship over time.”
I can buy this, as long as it’s enforced, “enforced” being the operative word here.
Alright, the big guns…
Now I’m not an expert in this, my father is, in 2005 when “invader Hysteria” was sweeping Herndon and there were calls to close the official Herndon Workers Center and starve the hispanics back to mexico, my father was looking through our nations legal history to see if there was some solution to the problem.
He found it in the State Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia. We are a state that recognizes “Denizens” and has yet to deny their rights by ammending our constitution.
In a nutshell, denizens are foreign citizens who have been granted permission by the state to work therein and build their fortune as long as the state deems appropriate. They are afforded basic rights to protection and care, but they are not afforded the full rights of citizens, they must pay dues like everyone else and if they so offend the state they can be expelled or prosecuted for crimes agasinst the commonwealth.
This has been on the Virginia Books long before the founding of the declaration of Independence, it is a hold over from English Common Law. Blackwell wrote in support of it and it has not been struck down by any supream court.
When PWC, Fairfax, Loudoun or any other place in Virginia wants to envoke the status of denizenship on the immigrants working hard in our economy, the door is wide open, but many localities are ignorant that the clause of deninization is open to us in Virginia. It is a state right, and one that congress would find hard to defeat.
We just need one mayor with guts to stand up and proclaim these illegal aliens as denizens of the State of Virginia, and the workforce will be protected. It will be very interesting to see how ICE would react when they are denying rights to our denizens granted them by the Commonwealth of Virginia for the past 400 years.
VA is not the only state that has denizinship written into the constitution, Kentucky, whose constitution is basically a copy of our own affords these same rights.
so to cap off, as far as the State of Virginia, any Mayor or County governing body should be able to declare any foreign national who works within the State and serves the common good as Denizen, afforded limited rights and protections so long as please the State. The state can therefore use another old law, banning the employment of non-denizens (the enforcement of which could be supplemented by the taxes of which the denizens pay.)
In terms of the 21st century, Denizenship can be granted after a background check and endorsement of an employer or a state official. This is the equivelent, of comprehensive immigration reform, with a databased entry policy, but with no constitutional red tape, because the laws allowing this have been in place for 400 years in this state.
Arizona will have to figure out something different, but if Virginia proves to be a true pillar of sucessful and rational immigration reform through the institution of denizenship, other states would be bound to follow, the enonomy would stablize, the population would be controled, it would be up to congress to figure out what to do with the national borders.
I don’t mind a path to citizenship that is “earned over time”, and including paying some sort of fine in addition to the usual costs of the immigration process. Otherwise it is highly unfair to those who have gone through the process. An example would my wife who really is still going through the process. She just got her green card a year ago after battling the beauracracy and having the whole process reset because they lost her sealed medical records from China which were handed over to USCIS upon her entry to the USA and nothing but the original would be accepted after the loss of those sealed records. Not only was the process reset, but again the $695 application fee was incurred through no fault of her not to mention other costs incurred (losing out on non-refundable plane tickets due to her Visa now all of the sudden cancelled since her application was denied “due to no medical records”!). Actually, the total cost of this fiasco to us was roughly $1500!
In fact, the point I’m trying to make is I honestly don’t know how the USCIS is going to handle this sudden influx of additional applicants, given they can’t handle the current load. Their process is a paper driven process, not really computerized, and frequently stuff gets misfiled, lost, etc., which is what happened in my wife’s case. I do think the sudden influx of “amnesty” applicants will only completely break the process for those such as my wife, who are stil moving through it (only having a green card and not a US Citizen). Had last year’s amnesty bill passed, with the estimated 12 million applications – I think the whole system would have ground to a halt.
Anon,
I have the same type of concerns. There have been so many SNAFUs involved with immigration/citizenship processes maybe it’s just the beauracracy. The most recent case involves the increased citizenship filing application fee. The feds expected to use the extra revenue to purchase computers, instead they encouraged an unexpected onslaught of applications that will take them much longer to process. I believe the fees went up on August 1st, prior to that, an application would process in 3-4 months. Now, those individuals will be lucky to have their applications processed in 14 months later. It’s disappointing because many would like to vote in the Presidential election in November.
In my mind, these individuals should not be introduced into the current system but rather a completely independent division with the cost born by the applicants.
I agree about your comments regarding the ramifications of the increased application fee that were different from the stated intention. You are right – it was August 1 of last year the fees went up for pretty much all types of applications. It wasn’t a small increase, they almost doubled in most cases. For an Adjustment of Status from a K-1 Visa it went from $695 to $1000. We almost had to pay the higher fee, due to the resetting of my wife’s application, and barely got in under the window last year when refiling before that took effect. I would have been extra angry paying $1000 instead of $695. Of course, we only got notified of the loss of her medical forms 2 weeks before that, and had to scramble to get a medical exam/vaccinations done here in the states (at twice the cost of the one in China of couse — so that was extremely expensive). It did indeed as you say result in an onslaught of applications in that month or two before it occurred, and the only way we managed to get some priority on oujrs was with the assistance of Congressman Wolf’s office. Otherwise we would have even lost more on plane tickets we had purchased for a trip to China – as we were able to manage to pay a change fee since we ended up traveling 6 months later than planned, but wouldn’t have fallen within the 1 year change window if we had to really wait out the year or more from the time of the resubmission.
I do like your suggestion of a completely independent division to handle any influx due to enactment of some form of amnesty. I just can’t imagine the current system being able to handle this sudden influx – Congressman Wolf’s office told us that forms are routinely lost, misfiled, etc. like what happened in our case. I’m sure my wife’s medical forms got filed with someone else’s application somehow, but there is no audit trail like if it were done on some computerized system where things got scanned into and attached to an applicant’s case.
If all these people agree that there should be some kind of path to citizenship, then there’s no excuse for not getting the reform that is desperately needed! Sit down, have a marathon session, and get the law in place! Congress does this all the time on important issues, and they need to make this a priority. Clearly, enforcement only wreaks havoc on us socially and economically.
“Diversity seems to stand for ‘Out of Many, Many’.”
No, it means everyone is a distinct, special human being and part of the human race. It implies respect for the individual, something supposedly the United States prides itself on. The idea of the “rugged individual” has come to us through centuries of exploration and chance taking as we created the society we now know, for better or for worse. “Diversity” is not in opposition to the American ideal. In fact, it’s a great part of our history and culture.
Think of the Civil War. Why did we have one? Because one group wanted to establish itself as an individual entity, separate from those they ideologically opposed. We, as Americans, love and will fight for our independence of identity. But we must do it without destroying ourselves. As Abraham Lincoln said:
“My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery.”
We must find a solution that keeps us a unified, just nation.
How does it “wreak havoc” on US socially and economically? By bringing down the value of our houses? By Hispanic run ONLY businesses going bankrupt? Cry me a river – if you want to be here legally, then get off your ass and do it. Stop crying “poor me, I want to be a legal citizen, but it’s so hard. So I’ll get a bunch of other families to buy a house, we can all live together and then we’ll have a ton of welfare babies for the liberals to take care of!”
Get a life –
“With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation’s wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow and his orphan – to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations.” Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address, March 4, 1865.
“With malice toward none” – pretty funny statement coming from you, since you have no hesitation in calling others Nazi’s, racists or bigots. Or do you only have “malice toward none” when it benefits you?
Second Alamo, perhaps the “unum” part of “E Pluribus Unum” has been too often defined by white males (particularly landowners). Others’ contributions have been slighted. I think you sound intimidated by the recognition of others’ positive contributions to our society, as though that somehow detracts from the contributions of white males (which seem to be the defining factor in your “unum”). Recognition of these diverse endeavors doesn’t have to diminish contributions of white males but can be seen as acknowledging the gifts of all.
“Neo-Nazi” is a term that describes too many people. It’s not my malice there. Anger? Sure. Malice? No.
BTW, since you seem to want to single out Hispanics, I have no problem assuming you are a bigot.
“Why did the chicken cross the road?”
“To escape the bigots.”
mal·ice Audio Help /ˈmælɪs/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[mal-is] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering on another, either because of a hostile impulse or out of deep-seated meanness: the malice and spite of a lifelong enemy.
Same old broken record… Throwing around terms like racists, Nazis, bigots, etc. and labeling people who are frustrated with the problems they see in their neighborhoods as such. Just when it seemed some progress was being made on this board. Guess not.
I’m starting to wonder if people have a fetish for paying $20 per apple in the future.
The “Denizen” idea above sounds like just another way of circumventing the process that those who’ve had to go through to even become permanent legal residents (with the eventual goal of becoming citizens). If all it is going to take is to run someone through some database and get an endorsement by an employer – what’s the difference between that and those who’ve waited in line to do the same thing? How’s this going to be fair to those from overseas who aren’t able to get across the border, come to Virginia, start working, and become a “Denizen”? Sorry, that’s not something I’d be willing to support. I might be able to support some form of amnesty, as I’ve said above, if it made them pay a fine for “jumping the line” on top of the usual fees. Anything else is unfair to those who’ve gone through the current system. In fact, I see some of the amnesty proposals as being extremely unfair to those from other continents who can’t just slip across the border. No one should get a free ride, which is what this “Denizen” idea sounds like to me.
Denization is what the towns and counties in Virginia want to make it, it is a right granted to them by our constitution. The whole point in envoking it now is to protect Illegal workers that have been working in this state for a long time, have paid taxes and have shown they are of value to the commonwealth. Denizenship should not be seen as blanket amnesty because the only indviduals who would be granted it in the begining are people who are endorsed by their community leaders as being integral to the economy of the commonwealth. Others from outside the country should be able to apply either for citizenship through the Nation, or for Denizenship through the state.
The process will only be what we make it.
As to those who are working hard to be citizens the legal way perhaps they would find it easier to be granted the status of a denizen of the commonwealth affording them the time to gain true citizenship. As a Denizen, they would have to pay taxes and are allowed basic health care and protection, but voting rights and social security would be denied.
This is sort of how the Arab Emirates work, they do not have enough population to fill up the service jobs, so they allow a certian amount of workers to come from other countrys to fill the gap, but they are not granted citizenship and there is an understanding that they are there to make their own fortunes and leave when they cannot work anymore. They are rigorusly documented and can be deported for any reason at any time.
Our state system would not be so harsh, our denizens would be granted sanctuary on an individual case basis. As a reward for serving the state economy well, they should be given the option to apply for citizenship. If they want to work here as long as they can and send the money back to their home countries, then they can remain denizens untill retirement. A town or county can make a quota on how many denizens they are willing to accecpt based on the job market. Denizenship can be taken away at the descretion of the State for whatever reason, but there should be rational evidence for each case of suspension.
Now all of this has the bitter case of a class system, I know, but as long as legitimate human rights are preserved for our denizens and the citizens can be held accountable for exploitation of them, I would wager that those granted denizen’s rights would be glad to have a steady job with rights, rewards and accountability. They would be documented, screened for disease and criminal history, they would be afforded protection from Employer abuse and it would be and easy way to sort out the bad apples. No gang members are going to be denizens unless they can proove they will have employment and are sponsored by at least two state officials.
Either way our whole immigration policy is going to have to be reformed completly and the Federal Government is more than likely to screw it up again, this is a State/ Local option that is currently afforded to us in our State constitution. If the fed is not up to the task perhaps the state can use some of the tools our founding fathers left us to reform our own system.
Anon,
There is no line. What do we do about the fact that we NEED unskilled labor? Have you gleaned nothing from the aftermath of Arizona ?
Oh Katherine, Katherine, Katherine – “desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering on another, either because of a hostile impulse or out of deep-seated meanness: the malice and spite of a lifelong enemy.” – again, is this why you continually call the police on people? Is that not malice? Look in the mirror – the only bigot is you.
PS – thanks for giving me the fodder to sue you for defamation of character, whore
You wish,
What are you talking about? Who is Katherine “continually” calling the police on? Far as I can tell, her blog hasn’t been labled as a “Nativist” group, she doesn’t associate with organization like FAIR who are a hate group, so how exactly is she a bigot?
You wish must be Greg himself. What a joke he is. Whoever it is, they just revealed themselves as someone not worth wasting any energy on. He/she is just a jerk.
you wish,
I was just about to edit your vile comment towards Katherine, but instead, I will leave it so all can see your real character. I feel sorry for you actually. You must have a miserable life.
Katherine has the miserable life – she’s called the police so many times that they have actually had to talk with her several times about when to call the police and when NOT to call the police. I have a happy, wonderful life and feel sorry for all of you who spend your lives on this blog.
You Wish,
Note that there are rules on this blog, specifically no attacking posters personally.
You may have a wonderful life…but I feel sorry for the people that surround you that have to live with you. That must be wonderful! Ugh.
Demi-god Greg must me demanding more and more sacrifices from his worshipers, Greg’s Mujihadeen are commiting a lot of “Character Suicide” attacks here.
I’m sorry Letiqothins, but accecpting Greg Letiq as your personal Lord and Savior really will not bring you eternal life, it will bring you eternal embarrassment. Every folded resturant, every un-mowed lawn, every lowered housing value, are these the marks of sucess?!?! or the punishment of being beguiled by a nativist demi-god. Greg got rid of the immigrants like he promised. Now ask your leader to put his money where his mouth is, see if he can bring PWC together to rebuild your economy. See if he has invested interest in PWC or whether his pleasure is but your economic chaos where a munipulator like himself can have at play with peoples emotions and be the first to throw the noose upon the branch and call it “Justice.” To demand blood sacrifice for your protection!
Is that the American way?
We’ve seen Greg the Destroyer, where is Greg the builder?
Elena – the “jumping the line” I was referring to was people from overseas waiting to get here through the current legal immigration method. My wife has plenty of friends from China in that situation currently, as an example. That’s why I’m not for people jumping the line. I wasn’t referring to jobs actually, although i guess the “Denizen” idea was linking jobs to immigration, and I won’t deny that in this area the two issues are tied together, at least for lower income jobs.
Or actually, and I think I said this before, me and my wife went through a long process to get her here, and waited our turn – so I resent all of the sudden people who are here without documentation, suddenly allowed to jump the line so to speak. I also think it will only lead to it being harder for people overseas to come here legally. They have no easy way to “sneak in” to this country and then get some form of amnesty if it were to be enacted. I’m sure once that happens, it will further restrict the current legal forms of immigration, or at least further slow down the process, unless as we talked about earlier – the amnesty process was administered by a separate entity. I will concede that the “Denizen” idea does indeed do that.
Anon,
Maybe you don’t realize it, but the people who “sneak in” illegally do not come here in an “easy way”! My goodness! They risk their lives and pay about $5K to get here the “easy” way. They entrust their lives to thieves who could possibly leave them for dead. They don’t ride over the border in some kind of luxury bus or something! They walk for days in blistering heat and are at the mercy of whoever they have paid to get them here and many die trying. If there was a line they could get in and just pay a regular fee that citizens of other countries have to do, they would. People I know were on the road for a month before they got here and I don’t think any of them thought it was “easy” to get here. Not by any stretch.
I don’t think “every folded restaurant, every unmowed lawn, every lowered housing value” can be all blamed on the resolution. A lot is the economy in general. Restaurants all over (just look at any publicly traded restaurant company’s stock earnings lately) have taken huge hits and many chains have started closing restaurants. Having been actively looking at the housing market in this area, I can point to you an example up in Ashburn where one builder just slashed prices by $20K on their townhomes. In my own personal case, I would say the overcrowding and trash as well as the general economy is having more of an impact on the price I can get for my townhome than anything else. It used to have a nice view of the woods – now it has a nice view of woods filled with trash, with signs and trash cans along the common property in both English and Spanish saying not to litter. THAT definitely is not a positive for the value of my townhouse, and wasn’t there 3 years ago! Sort of tired of hearing that the resolution is the cause of all the woes of restaurants and housing values. I have a feeling much of that would have happened anyway. Then again, part of the reason for the crash of the housing market was the subprime disaster – which is linked to lower income groups. Whatever, I don’t think the resolution had that much to do with it – the housing market was already on the way down a year ago or more, for that matter. Actually, we don’t have unmowed lawns here, but we do have common property filled with beer bottles and trash, and nice woods with trees surrounded by trash. I’d actually take an unmowed lawn next to my townhouse rather than all of that – I think it wouldn’t reduce the property value as much as the trash does (and the need for signs that say “Don’t be a litterbug”)!!
Well, I’ll concede the statement that many (or most) illegals didn’t have an easy time coming here. But granting them amnesty, is probably in the end going to cause further limits on immigration, or at least slow it down more in the beauracracy, because in the end USCIS is going to end up handling it, and as I’ve said they can’t even at this time keep up with the current legal immigration paperwork. Then again, there’s probably a huge contract out there for someone that could computerize their system and get it modernized. Being a software engineer, it’s something that’s definitely crossed my mind – as if there’s ever an outdated paper driven system that needs modernization – USCIS is it. Their still stuck in the filing cabinets days.
I meant to say “further limits on immigration for those overseas” in the 2nd sentence of the post above. Otherwise it is kind of confusing reading it back the point I was trying to make.
You wish wrote:
Did you read the article in the MJM this morning:
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/official_hopeful_for_manassas/15600/
The article mentioned business in Old Town Manassas that recently closed, or will soon close. None is Hispanic-owned. They include: O’Meara’s, Olde Town Hobby Store and The Victorian Tea Room.
Businesses in Old Town Manassas being closed – again it is more the general economy than anything else. It is the same everywhere and not just in this area – as I said before look up any publicly traded stock of a restaurant company and look at comparisons of year to year revenue per restaurant, all are down. Also costs of many of their goods are up (just like you find at the grocery store), and they really can’t keep increase menu prices in this economy. With the rising gas prices, eating out is one of the first things to go as people tighten their budgets. Again, not probably related to the resolution. And in O’Meara’s case, as was pointed out elsewhere on this blog – probably more directly related to major unpaid ABC fines, from the sounds of it.
Expecting out governments to enforce the law is not racist or bigoted. The LA Times poll is flawed because the majority of the population in California is Latino. National polls conducted have shown that 80% of the population want the current immigration laws enforced. That does not mean amnesty – it means enforce our immigration laws. Do not allow persons into our country without the approval of our government. Those that are here illegally need to self-deport or be deported.
The economy and the foreclosure crisis is a nationwide problem. The resolution cannot be blamed. Foreclosures were happening long before the resolution – so were the decreases in property values.
I am thankful for the resolution and grateful to our BOCS for listening to the legal citizens.
OMG I can’t believe Victorian Teahouse is closing! I love that place!
Marie, 16. May 2008, 6:23
SecondAlamo, I understand what you are sayin but I know several immigrant families and they all want to be American citizens. They honor this country. Do you recall the candlelight vigil that was held shortly after 9-11? Americans were asked to come out of their homes and light candles as a remembrance to those who died. Not one American family in my neighborhood, except my family, came out. All the immigrant families in my neighborhood did. In addition, they were wearing T-shirts with American flags. So, I have to disagree in part to what you are saying. I think there many immigrants who want to adopt this as their land and who love this country.
KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED – THATS MY EXPERIENCE TOO MARIE….REMEMBER THE MARCH AROUND MCCOART LAST JULY…….7,000 LATINOS……ALL CARRYING LITTLE AMERICAN FLAGS…..I AM SO PROUD I PARTICPATED…ALSO THE ONE ON THE MALL……99 PERCENT OF FLAG-CARRIERS AMONG THE LATINOS…….WERE CARRYING AMERICAN FLAGS…..I AM SAD TO SAY THAT SOME OF MY LATINO FRIENDS ARE SHUNNED BY ANGLOS…..HOW IN HELL DOES ONE ASSIMILATE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT!!!!
lright, the big guns…
Now I’m not an expert in this, my father is, in 2005 when “invader Hysteria” was sweeping Herndon and there were calls to close the official Herndon Workers Center and starve the hispanics back to mexico, my father was looking through our nations legal history to see if there was some solution to the problem.
He found it in the State Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia. We are a state that recognizes “Denizens” and has yet to deny their rights by ammending our constitution.
KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED – GREAT FIND ROD……YOUR DAD MUST BE A REAL SCHOLAR…….I ALSO WOULD ADD THAT I KNOW OF A MAYOR WITH LOTS OF GUUTS……FRANK JONES OF MANASSAS PARK……AMAZING AND ARTICULATE!!!
kgotthardt, 16. May 2008, 11:19
If all these people agree that there should be some kind of path to citizenship, then there’s no excuse for not getting the reform that is desperately needed! Sit down, have a marathon session, and get the law in place! Congress does this all the time on important issues, and they need to make this a priority. Clearly, enforcement only wreaks havoc on us socially and economically.
KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED – GREAT OBSERVATION K……..ALL THIS TALK IS CLOSE TO PRES BUSHES PLAN FROM LAST YEAR…..THE RIGHT WING REDNECKS KILLED THAT ONE…….BUT MAYBE PEOPLE SMARTEN UP OVER TIME AND REALIZE SOMETHING RATIONAL NEEDS TO BE DONE!!
You Wish, 16. May 2008, 11:31
How does it “wreak havoc” on US socially and economically? By bringing down the value of our houses? By Hispanic run ONLY businesses going bankrupt? Cry me a river – if you want to be here legally, then get off your ass and do it. Stop crying “poor me, I want to be a legal citizen, but it’s so hard. So I’ll get a bunch of other families to buy a house, we can all live together and then we’ll have a ton of welfare babies for the liberals to take care of!”
Get a life –
KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED…..YOU . YOU GET A LIFE DUMB-DUMB…….ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE ALWAYS STIRRING THE WRONG POT…..INSTEAD OF WHINING….AND CALLING NAMES …..SAY SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE…..
Anon,
Agreed we will never know exactly what affect the resolution has had on our local economy. One thing I have found strange though is the suggestion that it has had little or no effect on the economy. For instance, the drop in ESOL students is heralded as a success and a cost savings but the suggestion that the housing market has been negatively affected are dismissed. Surely, as a community we are interconnected in many ways including economically.
Interestingly, Riverside, New Jersey which actually implemented their resolution back in ’06 when times were good rescinded it supposedly because of economic impacts combined the costs of having to defend it against a lawsuit.
SecondAlamo,
Are you talking about Corey Stewart’s wife, who hasn’t become legal in 13 years? Do you mean those people who refuse to assimulate?
It’s amazing, all I’m saying is that some of you treat respecting America as some BS from a bygone era. As far as the Latinos carrying American flags in that march, yeah after they found out that carrying Mexican flags just ticked us off. First impressions usually carry the most weight. Hypothetically, all I want to know is that if this country ever went to war with Latin America, that my neighbor is covering my back and not aiming at it! Remember the total lack of outrage from the Islamic communities during 9-11?
SecondAlamo, 16. May 2008, 19:07
SA, I could not have said it better! There is definitely a place for everyone at the table here (I’m always thinking about food) to bring in their native foods, their music and other aspects of their culture that are meaningful to them. But there has to be a level of assimilation and national identity, as well. I don’t think “United We Stand; Divided We Fall” is just a bunch of lockstep bs–I think it’s crucial I’m not big on chaos.