Tough immigration enforcement with no parallel comprehensive immigration reform, will only bring severe negative consequences to everyone!
Citing a November Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll, the Manhattan Institute’s Tamar Jacoby noted recently that “63 percent of Democrats, 64 percent of Republicans and 57 percent of independents favor allowing illegal immigrants who meet certain conditions — registering, being fingerprinted, paying a fine and learning English — to earn citizenship over time.”
Riverside, NJ
The law had worked. Perhaps, so me said, too well.
With the departure of so many people, the local economy suffered. Hair salons, restaurants and corner shops that catered to the immigrants saw business plummet; several closed. Once-boarded-up storefronts downtown were boarded up again.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/26/nyregion/26riverside.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Arizona
Arizona’s new “enforcement only” immigration law, which mandates the use of an electronic verification system and subjects employers to the loss of their business license for hiring the wrong person, has turned out to be a disaster that might rank up there with the Edsel or New Coke in the pantheon of bone-headed ideas.
The unintended consequences haven’t been pretty, and now the very lawmakers that thumped their chest about getting tough on illegal immigration are trying to enact some sort of state-level guest worker program in order to bring those undocumented immigrants back to the state.
The state had a very low unemployment rate when the law was passed — it was, at least in part, a “solution” to a problem they didn’t have. Unemployment was at 4.1 percent when the law went into effect in January and had been at 3.7 percent when a judge upheld the measure in early 2007.
Arizona is now faced with labor shortages, and when combined with the loss in demand from all those worker-consumers, the whole enchilada might end up costing the state’s economy tens of billions of dollars.
http://www.alternet.org/immigration/85022/?page=1
Prince William County
County business leaders have created “image committees” to examine the direction Prince William is heading. Now, some analysts said, the economic downturn makes it a bad time to carry out the immigration measures.
“It undermines the image of the county as a good place to invest,” said Stephen Fuller, director of the Center for Regional Analysis at George Mason University. “The political environment has made people feel unwelcome.”
Richard L. Hendershot, who chairs the Prince William County Greater Manassas Chamber of Commerce, said it has been hard to sell Prince William as progressive, dynamic and thriving.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/19/AR2008041900943.html?nav=rss_metro
Last month, Prince William County had the most new filings of any Washington area jurisdiction, followed by Prince George’s, Fairfax, Montgomery, Loudoun and the District, according to RealtyTrac Inc., a California-based company that tracks real estate trends.
When foreclosures rise, crime often follows, researchers said. A 2005 study by the Georgia Institute of Technology and the Woodstock Institute found that, holding other factors constant, each foreclosure in a 100-house neighborhood corresponded to a 2.4 percent jump in violent crime.
Law enforcement agencies typically don’t keep statistics for crimes that occur in vacant houses, but the concerns of local officials are mirrored across the nation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/26/AR2008042601288_2.html
Alanna, I just think it is too hard to even begin to quantify what if any effect the resolution had on the housing market in particular. The housing market was on a bubble and was bound to drop. In fact, in my neighborhood at the height of the bubble (when I was too stupid to sell as I’ve said before) I couldn’t believe what the townhouses here were going for! The foreclosures in my opinion are more to people buying in way over the head (and being allowed to do so by greedy banks) than anything else. In more affordable neighborhoods, where more lower income bought in at the height of the craziness, it stands to reason things are going to crash faster due to a higher ratio of foreclosures. So I don’t really buy into the argument that the resolution is somehow made things worse here as far as the housing market than other parts of the DC metro area. Looking at new neighborhoods up in Loudon County – I sense some desperation on the part of the builders as they seem to be slashing prices and offering incentives to get you to buy. That is the only comforting thing about my housing search right now. I’m actually not sure that prices have dropped all that much more in percentage terms than in areas outside of PWC.
Anyway, one thing we can agree on, it is very hard to quantify what the precise effects of the resolution are given the state of the economy in general. With what happened in Riverside, NJ – I happen to have a sister who lives in South Burlington which is only a short distance from there – and really that area’s economy has been suffering for quite awhile, due to it being near Philadelphia. Several large things have hurt the economy there for the past 3 to 4 years – some major industrial plants have closed, the Philadelphia Naval Yard has closed, etc. Again, I don’t know that one can entirely blame it on what was done in Riverside. Now, I can see how being scared of the cost of lawsuits would be a factor in causing them to reverse their position. But businesses in that area were failing all over the place. My sister who is a secretary got laid off 3 times in the past several years, and the first was in 2005 when the economy was good, and apparently before Riverside passed their ordinance. The 2nd was in 2006, and the last was early this year. Again, that area wasn’t doing well even when the economy was doing well. In fact, the median income in that area is well below that of PWC. So it isn’t a comparable area to PWC in my opinion – at least in that PWC’s economy was fine in 2005 and the greater Burlington, NJ metro area was not. Somehow, all these discussions of Riverside conveniently leave that out! Of course, people who don’t know the area as I do won’t know it from reading these articles. I grew up just north of there and my parents still live just north of there (suburbs of Trenton) but as I said I have a sister who lives in South Burlington which is really close so I know the area well.
Actually to further point out what I was saying about Riverside being a less well off area – the median income there in 2000 was $45K per household/$52K per family compared to PWC’s $65K per household/$71K per family. You could argue this is an oranges to apples comparison since Riverside’s population was only 7,911 in 2000. But if you want to compare Burlington County as a whole, the numbers are $58K/$67K. Well, again it is hard from raw statistics, and as we all know statistics can be made to lie and can be twisted to anyone’s point of view. But knowing the area well, it was not really thriving in 2005 or 2006, before their ordinance got passed, which if I’m reading it accurately was in July 2006. Things were already well in the tank there – as I said several large industrial plant closings in the area in 2005, as well as the Philadelphia Naval Yard maybe a year or so before. It would definitely be no distortion of facts that the economy there was not in as good shape as PWC’s, say in July 2005 (a year before the apparently enactment of their resolution).
Ok, clearly this is not going to work out–waiting for my comments to come out of “moderation” before anyone else sees them and can comment. I see why you no longer call this “the uncensored version.”
Got the message, loud and clear. It’s 7:58 pm.
Corey’s wife isn’t a citizen? Doesn’t she get to be one because she’s married to him?
Actually, I should have read the article linked at the top of this thread – in the very first paragraph it describes Riverside as a “faded factory town”. That would be an apt description, and again in 2005 the economy would not have been thriving there for sure – it wasn’t thriving where my sister lives in South Burlington which is a more suburban area in the same county – although she worked in downtown Burlington which was more urban and where she got laid off in 2005. Anyway, the point is again, I don’t think the case can be made that the town’s economic downfall was solely due to their resolution which seems to be the gist of most commentary on Riverside. In any event while the larger Burlington County has areas comparable to here (but also has heavily urban areas such as Burlington city itself), there’s not really anything resembling Riverside in this area which was heavily dependent on factories for local employment and really could not be described as “thriving” in 2005.
Regaring Corey’s wife – I have no idea if any of this about her not being a citizen is true or not. But marriage to a US Citizen does not automatically make you one. My wife has a green card but even though she is married to me still is not a US Citizen, and having been just gotten Adjustment of Status to legal resident last December – (from what was originally a fiancee Visa but then got derailed due to the loss of her medical records by USCIS) – she still has a good long way to go before she can become a full US Citizen. Although it is a somewhat different path if you are already here in the US as a resident and then marry a US Citizen, I believe. In any event, marrying a US Citizen does not automatically make you one.
In fact, my wife’s her green card is still a 2 year provisional one (so she’s not even a permanent legal resident yet – she’s still a “provisional legal resident”), then there’s a further adjustment of status to a “permanent green card”, and also somewhere in that process, a path to US Citizenship although I confess I’m not sure what that is – it was enough to just get to this point and I haven’t wanted to look that far ahead with the craziness that is the USCIS beauracracy. This is why again, knowing the process, and then reading some of the amnesty ideas – they seem to want to get permanent legal resident status right away – my wife is still in line for it from a time point of view. Although, the conversion to permanent legal status for her should just be a formality, but it is more paperwork, and yes more fees to be paid.
Bring it On, 16. May 2008, 18:48
“Are you talking about Corey Stewart’s wife, who hasn’t become legal in 13 years? Do you mean those people who refuse to assimulate?”
His wife IS LEGAL!!!! She may not be a citizen, but she is LEGAL.
kgotthardt, 16. May 2008, 20:43, I thought you knew all about immigration. Apparently not.
Regarding “KENNETH SAID NOT SCREAMED…..YOU . YOU GET A LIFE DUMB-DUMB…….ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE ALWAYS STIRRING THE WRONG POT…..INSTEAD OF WHINING….AND CALLING NAMES …..SAY SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE…..” – funny in your post right before you use the term “right wing rednecks” in referring to people who were against the amnesty bill from last year. I’ve seen more than plenty of name calling on this board, and now see “right wing rednecks” added to the ever growing list. I think a lot of people who were against the amnesty bill would take umbrage about being called “right wing rednecks”. I repeatedly am astounded at how people here resent generalizations when they feel people make them about the immigration situation, but apparently feel free to continually make them to those they don’t agree with. Perhaps both sides need to stop the name calling.
Anon-100 what I asked was whether or not Corey’s wife was a citizen, not whether or not she is “legal.” I think he’s said it twenty or so times that she’s a “legal immigrant,” his claim to fame.
Who said I knew “everything about immigration”? Apparently, no one, including the Feds, know “everything” about immigration.
WHY can I NOT post videos anymore? did the majority vote and I was absent?
“craziness that is the USCIS beauracracy” Yes, that is a huge problem! People like your wife shouldn’t have to wait. This system needs to be simplified while being made safe. Sheesh!
Yipes, another “anon” in here. I think I’m going to have to figure out a different userid so I don’t get mixed up with this new “Anon-100”. Maybe something like MarriedtoAsianImmigrant . I’ve never been too creative in things like this, and not comfortable with using my name. Then again, I’ve probably said my piece, and if I end up shortly signing a contract for a townhouse outside of PWC, which seems to be where I’m headed (for one thing a shorter commute to where I now work) I’ll be done with this whole crazy debate anyway. Hopefully whatever new neighbhorhood I move into will be good for the 17 years or so before I retire, and at that time I think I’ll leave the whole DC area entirely. Anyway, as soon I for sure see I’m getting out of PWC, I doubt I’ll feel the need to post here any longer. Tonight’s events in the neighborhood really have added to my sense of urgency in what was to be another weekend of light house hunting, to probably a weekend where I hope to end up signing a contract, just to see a light at the end of the tunnel out of this mess.
Anon, I don’t blame you for wanting “out.” This whole thing is a mess and a headache. Personally, I’d prefer to run off to the wilderness with my family and live happily ever after communing with birds. But, alas, it would be a hell of a commute for my hubby, and we’d go broke with the gas costs.
Dear God, I hope Second Alamo isn’t really Tom Kopko and it’s just some sick rumor or some twisted joke to embarrass and discredit him. Second Alamo, whoever you are, please come out and say you are NOT Tom Kopko.
First we find out your unum is wounded because white males are getting enough credit in your twisted view of unum.
Now you’re questioning the loyalty of Americans with Latin ancestry (that’s a lot of Americans!) in a hypothetical war. And, worse, implying that Muslim and Arab Americans lacked sufficient outrage after 9/11.
If you’re that bankrupt of ideas, if you’re that ready to basically admit you’ve got nothin’… then please, stop embarrassing Tom Kopko and tell us that you are NOT HIM.
The poor man needs to maintain a vestige of credibility if he is going to maintain a leadership role among any but the most extreme and ill-informed wing of the PWC Republican Party. Where is Tom Davis when you need him?
Well, the actual paperwork isn’t that complicated if that is what you mean about the process being streamlined. It is the USCIS’s inability to keep track of it that is frustrating. That’s what I refer to as their beauracracy, plus getting meaningful answers out of them when applications get derailed. Again, if amnesty does get enacted and they are tasked with handling it too, I have no hope for them keeping track of anything. If they can’t keep track of my wife’s medical records, how are they going to handle having to keep track of a sudden influx of 12 million more records than the current load. And I do think medical records are important – while the medical records mess costed us plenty extra to have the exam and vaccinations repeated here in the USA – I would not support any kind of immigration without medical checks. That’s just asking for all kinds of disease to be imported into this country. Of course, one could argue they are already here, so I suppose the point of the medical exams for immigrants is to catch it before entry into this country.
TESTING…HELLO,HELLO….DOES ANYONE SEE MY POSTS?
Anon, how would you propose to fix it? Do you think it’s a matter of hiring more people and getting better technology? Or do you feel it’s kind of hopeless?
Hi Red—
I see your post. No video links or anything but you are here!
I meant to say white males are NOT getting enough credit, playing off something that NGL said above about Second Alamo’s refreshingly honest but sadly stunted way of viewing assimilation. The bottom line is that pluralism excludes NO ONE. These words you are afraid of like multiculturalism are not intended to include you Second Alamo. If you are just some social misfit out to discredit Tom Kopko, my advice is to stop, because you obviously share many of his views, but you do not know how to choose your words wisely enough to disguise them.
Red, we see you. Here’s a video to test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LCL2IqgjSc
kgotthardt,
GO FIGURE, I knew I could count on YOU! LOL
I actually had a video response to someone giving you $hit and calling you a Wh#Re.
I found a video of a toilet flushing and told you to stand back, I got this( and showed the video)
hmmm…don’t know why I can’t post links????
As far as commutes, the areas of Ashburn I’m looking at would be a shorter commute for me and are still relatively undeveloped and at least one planned community I’m most focused on has a huge area with hiking trails and the townhouses are up on a hill overlooking that. My commute used to be very short when my job was here in Manassas before IBM decided to leave here and sell the division – and that’s the only reason I ended up in this neighborhood. In fact, back then it was a neighborhood where many fellow IBM coworkers lived. Not so today! So for me a move will most likely shorten my commute, which is no picnic in and of itself, that’s for sure. Putting up with driving back to this neighborhood from work on a daily basis, it begs the question of why I have to get up early to avoid traffic and then drive back to the mess I currently live in. The more I think about it, the more insane it is and the less of a case I can make for remaining in Manassas any longer. That kind of drive and work schedule would be worth it if you were driving home to some place nice that you could be proud of. My main reason was not wanting to start all over again on a mortgage, but in retrospect it was a stupid reason – the added stress of living in this neighborhood the past few years is not worth the low mortgage I currently have. And as my mortgage is nearly paid off, at this point I’m not building up any equity – I don’t see housing prices in this neighborhood recovering even if the economy recovers, to be completely realistic.
WhyHereWhyNow,,
Thank you. I don’t know what is going on. I can view your video.
LOOK to the sky, I may have to send up smoke signals….LOL!!!!!( hey ya, hey ya, hey ya…do you see me dancing?)
I got a hold of someone to see what maybe going on….
Fixing USCIS – it begs for a computerized workflow process where documents are scanned in and tracked to a given application. Right now it is file cabinet based, as far as applications – and files are physically mailed from one office to another as your application progresses. In my wife’s case – her kind of application (fiancee visa) is routinely transferred from the Chicago office to an office in California at some point – and that’s where her medical records got lost in that transfer. You would think the whole file was transferred together, and maybe was but some idiot clerk perhaps dropped the medical records into the wrong file in the file cabinet as best as I can figure.
Anyway, that would be my solution, and having worked on a computerized workflow system for banks for credit card disputes – and that was in the late 90’s – the technology existed back then for scanning in documents (such as medical records) and attaching them to applications (in this instance).
Really, for some company, there’s a huge opportunity out there – if the federal gov’t would put out a contract for something like that.
Anyway, better technology (as opposed to 1970’s era filing cabinet system and physically mailing things between USCIS offices) is the answer. Definitely not more people – that is what beauracracies do best – just continue to grow. I’m sure with the right technology they’d need less people, but then again no one would support that.
” Right now it is file cabinet based, as far as applications – and files are physically mailed from one office to another as your application progresses.” Holy smokes! And people wonder why we are in such a mess?? Come on. With all the technology in this country, there’s just no excuse for this!
Red, thanks for the video try. Someone giving ME crapola??? I just can’t believe it! : )
And, for all I know the US Postal Service could be what lost the medical records – but again its insane that the USCIS mails things between offices and has no computerized system where any office can get at the application. So I blame the USCIS – and given what I’ve observed suspect some file clerk just misfiled my wife’s medical records into someone else’s file. Congressman Wolf’s office told me that things get lost all the time at USCIS. That’s why I think if USCIS got inundated with some sudden influx of amnesty applications (12 million was the number I think i heard during last year’s debate) I say good luck to anyone who is in the system at the time – they’ll need it.
I just saw someone called me a w-ore??? Huh. I must have missed that somehow. I don’t LOOK like a w-ore. I don’t ACT like one. They must have mistaken me with a politician.
Agreed, it is totally crazy USCIS still uses filing cabinets and mails files from one office to another. Whoever is running it has their head in the stone ages, for whatever reason. It amazed me to as I learned about it, and is one of the more baffling things that no one (at least that I’ve heard) has ever called for a modernization of their operation. If a corporation these days was forced to handle their business by mailing things between corporate offices, and using file cabinets, they’d probably be bankrupt for not being able to compete with other corporations.
Come on now, everybody, say the Pledge of Allegiance with me. I dare you, because that would be showing respect for America and America only, flying in the face of diversity. That’s a sin in your book from what I gather. For me, that’s patriotic. See you on the 4th, and don’t forget all those Americans on Memorial Day that gave their lives so you have the right to chastise the country and its laws! I gather most of you have never been outside the country nor served the country in harms way, so I wouldn’t expect you to understand where I’m coming from. If I don’t agree with you, then remember, I’m just exercising my diversity of thought. Have a nice day!
“Come on now, everybody, say the Pledge of Allegiance with me.” I just did that last night. And the kids—-you know those kids from all around the world?—do it every morning in school. So be proud, SA!
Actually, the even more scary thing to me when I think of this, is that USCIS is part of the Dept. of Homeland Security. If their technology is as screwed up as USCIS’s – there’s no hope for the security of the nation. Then again, it is only recently that USCIS came under Homeland Security (at the time that Department was formed). But, it has made me wonder at times about Homeland Security in general, and what kind of technology they have.
“USCIS is part of the Dept. of Homeland Security.” Well, you are just full of disconcerting information, aren’t you, Anon? LOL! That is VERY SCARY! We have all the “watch out for the terrorists” warnings but we have immigration records that could be torched with the drop of a match? Holy Cow! Does the rest of the world know this? (Other than those of us you just informed?)
kgotthardt,
I know! PATHETIC! NO more PATHETIC than the Advocator ( whoever it is) calling everyone over here FAT broads, etc., LOL nust be a HEAVY burden to carry keeping those balls from dragging on the floor…..
Actually, I think homeland is a joke….and I will prolly get locked up for saying so ( who has the last laugh)
Yeah, well, my fat comes from some medical problems, sad to say. But I come by it honestly.
I suppose they come by their stupidity honestly as well.
“and I will prolly get locked up for saying so” I’ll come visit you!
K,
Can you hear this bed time read: oh, advocator, what big balls you have….( little red riding hood)
who give 2 jiggles on a fat mans butt.
The HEART is not visible to the naked eye but shows~
Thanks Kgotthardt, I am!
Heee heee…..thanks for the NIGHTMARE, RED!!! LOL!
K,
OMG ROFLMAO…that reminds me of an email that I got about friends and how they can get you in trouble, etc BUT a true friend will be laughing right beside you in jail….LOL
I tried a quick search, can’t find it…..I will keep trying because it really is FUNNY as all get out.
I got that email before, Red! That’s right. So guess I will be sitting there in the cell with you!
They would have to let us out OR join in, it would be too much fun. Laughter is contagious.
And it would only take a second to find out where the party is and who is scary or not….LOL
harmless broads….hah hah
heee heeee…..well, this harmless broad is off the beddie bye! Night night, all. And may dreams of Wally Covington and Ralph Nader evade you tonight.
…..and Nixon stays away……. LOL. Me too, off to bed…..with one eye and ear alert…BOO!
Red Dawn,
It seems that your ‘friend’ with the big balls has never heard that people who live in glass houses should not throw boulders. As I recall, this individual has a few physical detractors of his own. I have heard several people around town do a remarkable imitation……
I find it really bizarre that Rober Duecaster/Advocator has no issue with being so openly offensive, geez, at least PRETEND you have a modicum of credibility! He clearly has some very personal issues that he really should address.
SA,
I will defend your right to be offensive with my last breath! I LOVE this country and every time I see a brave man or woman serving this country, I always say “thank you”. There are plenty of people serving this country who do NOT believe the same way you do, would you call them unpatriotic? Is John McCain unpatriotic because he would most likely agree with many of us posting here? Being patriotic is more than saying the pledge, it is more than saying America is “us vs them”, it is a philosophy of freedom.
After reading the Pledge of Allegiance Valediction from Second Alamo, I’ve decided that he is indeed Tom Kopko, and, that he is a person with deep emotions and good intentions. Our flag, the idea of patriotism, our soldiers past and present, and the Pledge of Allegiance are his shields. He summons them not only to deflect our pointed criticism, but also to meet the difficult challenge of introspection and reexamination that awaits him.
In his recent posts, I see a dutiful man who is beginning to see his previous positions in a new light… that they resulted in negative outcomes, and that, morally, they cannot prevail in the America we have become.
Instead of taking offense when he questions our patriotism and that of others who question him, it is possible to see him as human, vulnerable, and sympathetic.
Ultimately, his invoking of the great symbols of this country recall our shared history and shared fate, even if we disagree about the substance of the ideals for which those symbols stand.
Of course, it is incumbent upon us to choose better for our leaders, and I’m confident we shall. But this does not make a man an enemy or a fool. Rather, Second Alamo is a man who has thus far remained faithful to ideas and styles of leadership that we must respectfully retire in this day and age, but at the same time, we can acknowledge and appreciate him for offering them.
I think I am fed up with the discussion about the “Resolution” because of the hidden agendas and lack of full disclosure on the part of participants who claim to be “impartial”.
I have been completely forthcoming about my bias as a legal immigrant who sees amnesty as a reward to those who jumped the line, and that amnesty does nothing to solve the bigger problems or promote national security or unity.
On this blog, I have grown weary of the castigations of the trilogy of house moms here who run the show. KGotthardt in particular is the first to have what I view a sneering, condescending tone towards those who don’t share her particular world vision. I was puzzled by why she would feel the need to be so shrill all the time, to the point of being predictable.
So I checked out her blog and her “Linked In” profile. And I understood immediately — clearly this is a misguided individual who struggles to be accepted and who profits from “teaching” “international” students English and citizenship. Bingo! Attitude and vested interest explained in one swoop.
I have yet to meet an advocate for the “illegal/pro-amnesty” side who does not have some sort of personal, highly vested interest (yet generally undisclosed) in maintaining the status quo. K Gotthardt is no exception.