If there’s rules then I’d like to see them changed so that the next time a citizen makes a racist comment they get called out. In my opinion, Bob’s talk was uncomfortable and made me cringe a couple times, but in comparison to some of the other things that I’ve heard from people standing at that podium, I’m not quite sure it rises to the standard of a public reprimand. As far as I know, this is the third instance of this happening since October.
- The Hispanic lady that tells the board to kiss her a$$ to which John wants her deleted from future broadcasts.
- Maureen Caddigan says ‘Can someone stop that woman from coming here?’ in response to Donna Widawski’s.
- And now Bob Wills
Again, none of these incidents bother me more than these incidents which stand out in my mind.
- The woman who said she doesn’t like it when a Hispanic can own homes and she can’t.[I mean what is that about? Let’s do an exercise, re-read the previous sentence and substitute Black for Hispanic. Obviously offensive. Do people not get it?
- Mattes’ statement – It is scary, and she wouldn’t be surprised, if these guys [daylaborers] came across the road & jumped a car and hijacked it.[Okay, worse case scenario, you have a group of men(Hispanic) loitering, looking for work, most likely in a state of mixed immigration status.]
- Another lady who said she felt uncomfortable when the daylaborers nodded their heads at her.[Reminds me of Obama’s grandmother admitting she felt uncomfortable with Black men.]
The rules, such that they are, are published on the BOCS website and rarely if ever enforced. Mr. Wills may have gone a little over the top with the shopping comment directed at Caddigan (not that I disagree) but on balance, he was no worse than many of the other angry residents that have spoken, in fact, he was far less personally “critical” than a number of others that I can think of in recent months.
His problem (and I have a similar one) is an animosity toward him by certain members of the board because he speaks bluntly, truthfully (in his mind) and generally supports his arguement. The animosity is a result of several thin-skinned supervisors having their true positions, voting records, interests, etc. revealed in public, showing them to be the hypocrites they often are.
Admin, don’t you get it? The Chair and Vice are RACIST. That’s why they allow the statement you refer to and can’t abide by others. They have proven again in public what and who they are.
Whether Wills was offensive or not is another story, but when the rules apply to some people and not people making racist comments (like immigrants are terrorists….don’t forget that one) it’s racism. They endorse racist comments as free speech but others are denied it.
So go ahead and argue that the term “racism” doesn’t apply here, people. You’re wrong and here’s hard evidence.
Mom, are there any rules beyond this:
“tending to create a breach of the peace”
That’s not too clear. Let me say, I give a lot of credit to all Supervisors for doing this job. It’s obviously not easy, there’s lots of tough decisions and difficult people to deal with.
Yeah what’s with “tending”? How would they know “tending” or not when they don’t even want to listen to everyone?
Yes, I bet this is a damn hard job but they CAMPAIGNED for it, for goodness sakes! You don’t campaign unless you know what kind of job you are getting! This isn’t like, “Oh I think I will work for the Public Works department” understanding maybe your boss is kind of a jerk or something where all you do is apply.* A campaign requires tremendous effort and money and time. Obviously, these people have all of that.
(* Not a real example, just a made up scenario. I don’t know anyone in Public Works.)
“Are there any rules beyond this?”
Above and beyond what is contained in Robert’s Rule, No. Bear this in mind, when you run for and are elected to the office, there is the expectation that you will suffer such slings and arrows. Their job, presuming it doesn’t get too personal, is to sit there and take it, it goes with the territory and position. If as a member of the Board you don’t like the comments, then you need to do something to change the impression you have made. Actions in this case, definitely speak louder than words. As a rule the BOCS is long on words and resolutions but all too short on action or consistency. As an example of the latter, remember that Wally voted for and Stirrup against water for Fireside Church then flip-flopped their respective positions on the very same issue with the next application for Parkside Church. Convenient that in most cases if a particular supervisor wants to make a “Stand” on a particular issue they can do with the knowledge that the issue will pass anyway and not jeopardise their standing when it is time to flip and support an identical circumstance in their own district.
“Government is not eloquence; it is not reason; it is a force, like fire; a dangerous servant and a terrible taskmaster” – George Washington
You better believe it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o61C3opWryc
Look at how this board can persecute a whole community at their whim. Why? Because some brown people engaged in house overcrowding?
Mr. Wills spoke from his heart. Evidently he feels like the elderly and disabled deserve to be treated with a little more dignity. I do not think he was out of line. I think he was angry and had a right to be. At least he made sense and had valid points. I am not really sure what the shopping thing was about.
Let’s face it Duecaster has screamed at the BOCS and said some horrible things. Did he ever get stopped or chastised. Greg L threatened the BOCS on May 20th. Did anyone chastise him. NOT!!! So, all I can say is the truth hurts and Corey was flexing his “beer muscles”. Did anyone notice how many times he blinked his eyes as Mr. Wills was speaking. Did not not see how uncomfortable CS appeared?
Marie ( team Bob),
“Did anyone notice how many times he blinked his eyes as Mr. Wills was speaking”
I was laughing at Corey drinking the water trying to cool down.
Mr. Wills , one word, Focus !
Pick something that concerns you and make your case. Agree or disagree on specifics, Mr. Wills was all over the place.
Wheelchairs, horses, zoning , SPCA , this was the rambling of an unfocused mind .
g.stone, one word, Focus!
I have watched Mr. Wills for quite some time and he has never strayed from the theme, accountability by the BOCS for actions and pledges in conjunction with equal treatment and fiscal responsibility. I do not agree with many of his positions on setback or zoning requirements but I do share his discontent with regard to the BOCS lack of fiscal responsibility, constant flip-flopping and failure to live up to their promises.
Perhaps if you removed your head from the swiveled and locked position in certain supervisors’ posteriors you might find your focus improved.
Mom,
I’ve been watching Mr. Wills too for awhile. I have to say I agree with your last comments. I spoke with Mr. Wills at the pm session, and he didn’t seemed to surprised or bothered by it too much. Mr. Wills no more over the line Tuesday than any other day. IMHO
I did find it odd that at 7:35 there weren’t any PWPD cruisers in front of the McCoart Blg. Yet, when I left after CT there were three cars in front of the building, and a few officers there after the evening session started back up. I couldn’t help but wonder was all that for Mr. Wills? Good Lord, our police have so much more important things to than haul away Mr. Wills.
OOPS…I meant to say.
and he didn’t seem to be surprised or bothered by it too much.
**I don’t want the “grammar police” coming after me. 😉
Mr. Wills was quite focused. He felt that animals were getting more consideration than human beings in this county, especially the elderly and the disabled.
Did he single a few supervisors out? Sure he did. I would rather hear his single out a public official or 2 then broad brush and entire group of citizens like some speakers do.
Mom sort of hit the nail on the head. No pun intended.
Ruby, I certainly hope the tax payer money, wasn’t used for Mr. Wills. Was he hauled away?
MH,
NO, he was NOT!!
I’m just very curious about the uniformed police presence inside and out of the Chambers.
Please, let’s not forget was taken out by Mr. Crone on 7/10/07, by two officers. He was another out spoken man. May he rest in peace.
All I can say, is if calling out a Supervisor’s bad decision is enough to get you banned from citizen time, we are all in trouble, especially me! I wonder if Eric and Annabel have the footage of the woman accusing Principi of harboring illegal alien in-laws.
Admin,
I agree, it is a tough job. What I find astounding though, is one Mr. Cronin’s last speeches I remember was budget time last year. He wen to the warpath the senior day care center and the nurse being cut from funding. He suggested the supervisor use their discretionary funds to keep that facility up an running properly. People acted like he was nuts for suggesting such a bizarre idea, yet, one year later, we have board using their disrectionary funds for the ADC overflow due to illegal immigration. I want to know why the ADC was so much more important to fund than the adult day care and children!
Elena
The “Supers(not)” do not need $400K in discretionary funds. I would much rather see them spend the money on kids and seniors than gang tattoo removal. I was very glad to see Wally and Marty come of the bucks to keep ODR open a couple of months.
My burning question is.
Are the seniors in Woodbridge more worthy than those of Manassas?
“I’m just very curious about the uniformed police presence inside and out of the Chambers.” They are always there. Thank God.
Oh never mind. I was talking about regular cops, not the cruisers you referred to. That’s what I get for reading comments backwards (from the bottom up).
Maybe the cops were protecting Corey and pals from Greg!
Bob Wills said they were pathetic. Is that a crime? If that’s all it takes to be kicked out by Corey Stewart, freedom of speech is under assault.
Notice how none of the other supervisors spoke out against Corey’s action? Power corrupts…
The fact is, Corey Stewart cannot take the heat that comes with the job, and he is not man enough to stand up under criticism. We will never get an explanation as to what was ‘out of line’ in Mr. Wills’ comments. Never.
Corey is angry because the continued pressure about the resolution is distracting focus from the next plank of his platform to higher office. Remember during the election how he accused Ms. Pandak of taking money from developers? Recall, though, that a higher percentage of his campaign contributions came from developers than hers. Right now those developers have his ear, and they want complete deregulation of development in PWC. Take a look at the development presentation from last Tuesday. Why are they creating a brand new agency, outside the budget cycle, to deal with commercial development? Do you honestly think commercial development pays for itself in this county? No, this is to burnish Corey’s ‘Good Republican’ credentials. He can claim to be ‘pro-business’ as a way of countering the utter screwing he has given the economic climate of the county as a result of the illegal immigration resolution.
Follow the money, folks. And at citizens time next week, ask about this new department.
So now the BOCS is putting people in moderation???? God save us from these people…..
Does Stewart think he’s Greg?
Considering the reaction I’ve gotten from a few of you to rather mild posts of mine, I find it curious that you would be upset that there was a reaction from the BOCS over Mr. Wills lashing. I bet if I referred to you folks as simple A$$’s I would never hear the end of it (don’t start typing, it was only an example, no offense). Few of you could contain yourselves as well as the members of the BOCS when faced with personal attacks in full view of the public with cameras rolling. I certainly couldn’t. Attacks of their methods or rulings yes, but personal attacks no.
But they ARE asses, SA!
LOL. Okay, I admit it was over the line in a public meeting. BUT….the censorship thing still stands especially considering the “rules” which should be stated at the beginning of the meeting IF there are to be any. It’s hypocritcal to chastise someone when no one else has been. It makes the BOCS look bad….per usual.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with Bob Wills’ comments. It’s breathtaking that Corey Stewart would feel confident in censuring him. I propose we all go to the next BOCS and tell Corey how ‘pathetic’ his leadership is. We should use the word pathetic repeatedly. Will he censure us all?
Mackie, I don’t mean he should have been censored at all! I just mean if I said it, I would walk off after and wonder if I SHOULD have. Not that it would change my decision one way or another anyway, usually. Of course, being who I am (someone who sometimes crosses people’s comfort zones sometimes without know it), I wonder that a lot anyway! But I’m not Mr. Wills and I still appreciate his refreshing bluntness. It’s sometimes the only way to cut through the crapola.
Well, the Chairman was not too upset when the other misquoted her in the Washington Post – so why oppose shopping comments??!!
LOL. This county has the most bizarre priorities. But I didn’t hear Caddigan yelling at Wills. It was Stewart, and I’m not sure he was sticking up for her.
When did the Post misquote her, Juturna?
Mr. Wills was admonished (not banned) because his diatribes are often wrapped in incendiary rhetoric. Previously he accused Board Members of ruling against an zoning application purely because was black. He actually called a few members outright racists (including Jenkins and Covington). His comments cross over from public debate and comment to anger and insult. Yes we can point to a few others on both sides (Ducaster, Letiecq, and Ricardo) that might have crossed over but Mr. Mills has done so numerous times that it call upon his admonishment. He often does not add to the public debate/discussion but just likes to get his jabs in and enjoys hearing himself speak. He also beleives that he is so much smarter than most of us. He only contributes to the environment of insults and borders on hateful speech. I think we can seek others to advance both sides of the discussion which all the Board Members can call upon during citizens times. Be careful of those you surround yourself with as Mr. Mills is most likely going to anger even those who are crying foul for his admonishment–he just can’t help himself.
Ruby:
They always have patrol officers there for citizen’s time. In the afternoon session, they sometimes park right up front, but in the evening session, they park around the side or back because the regular county employees are gone and those spots are freed up. There is no conspiracy. They do beef up when they are expecting a large crowd, but that is Charlie Deane who makes that decision and he does it in the interest of public safety. They also have more officers when an afternoon Potomac Nationals game is set at the same time (which is exactly what happened this past Tuesday). The officers help with traffic control.
Mr. Wills is RIGHT, however. THAT is what the BOCS doesn’t want to hear, especially Stewart and Stirrup. Too damn bad if he angers people. More people SHOULD be angry about the mistreatment of minorities, the elderly and disabled. Our county would be less screwed up if that were the case. We wouldn’t put up with the very things Mr. Wills is bringing up.
KG – Recall the immigration vote back in the fall? Greg had “leaked” information to the Post (gee, wonder where he got it) and had gotten it wrong. She admonished the Post for using GL as a source. I don’t think she said anything about Greg.
And I agree with you, as usual, Mr. Stewart was just using someone/anyone to get attention for himself. He could care a whit about Mrs. Caddigan or anyone else.
Friendly Advice,
Thanks for the friendly advice. I think probably overall, I agree with you. The gentleman can be abrasive and incendiary. However, last bocs meeting was not one of those times. Once again, Corey came off looking bad. If you are a public figure, then that has to go with the territory.
When is it ok to deny a citizen the right to free speech? Whether I like what he says or not, does he not have the right to be an obnoxious pain in the tail? I do not think that we can use our acceptance of what is being said the barometer or high water mark. Just because he accused the BOCS of listening to horses more than people does not give us or Corey Stewart to take away his right to speak his mind.
Abrasive or not, the gentleman made a few good points. Also, for the record, to my knowledge, he has never posted here, so I do not think we are making with strange bed fellows…or at least not Mr. Wills. 😉
Bob Wills = Soft scrub. ( less abrasive and doesn’t leave marks)
I’d rather listen to Bob Wills than most of the BOCS members. Will join Team Bob.
Just for the record and for those curious about new posters and censorship, I just changed my name from Juturna to “Juturna (Team Bob)”.
As a result the following message appeared:
Juturna (Team Bob), 25. May 2008, 18:44
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Now that’s what I call good manners!!!
Juturna,
HAH HAH, I am in moderation for doing those things to….NO inside/privileged/favors here.
I am still in moderation RIGHT now in response to another thread….I changed it to ( life of the party)
Red Dawn
I like Team Bob. Sends a message.
Juturna,
Of course I always try look at humor in everything ( my way of being open minded)
Can you imagine if everyone that shows up for citizen’s time wears ” what about Bob?” stickers? I can’t help but to get a giggle out of that.
Good thought. Kind of a grass roots thing. Gee….
Juturna,
There is an over abundance of grass root “things”….oh wait, that sounds like a good “Wisk” commercial. hmmm, should have trade marked that $$$ maker for the next commercial.
I have already seen the debate go to commercial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D2fNmsLjfE
Posted by Red Dawn
WOW, it worked…I had to get around changing my names with ( “”)
For the record, I was in moderation as the moniker ” YOO HOO” and was able to post it again. So, I would say that ANY changes you make to your moniker put you in moderation 🙂
Fontbonne, 24. May 2008,
Welcome Fontbonne,
What new “department” are referring to? I now LUAC was totally corrupted by developers and people who “created” their own private development scheme using the Rural Crescent and a new standard for SRR.
Juturna (team Bob)
Yes, you make a statement. I trust you are now out of moderation. That happens to all new posters. Keeps the riff raff out. Just kidding.
i-non,
I go down there enough to know that there is always a presence. Like a said they were out in front of the Mc Coart Bldg for the PM session. Yes, I ‘ve seen them there to. I was stating what I saw. I do appreciate your desire for clarification. I don’t think anyone would align themselves with Mr. Wills. I understand he’s been speaking longer than most. But, remember he’s not some newcomer that just rolled in the county in the last 10-15 years either. I don’t approve of most of what he says. However, I still think Corey could’ve called out others. I think given the current number of citizens now coming out to speak the board should review the rules of Citizen’s Time. I know it sounds childish, but some act like it so why not treat them like it.
Elena
http://www.pwcgov.org/documents/bocs/agendas/2008/0520/6-B.pdf
Not sure if this link will work. I believe this is what Fontbonne is referring to. It can be found on the 5/20 agenda under County Executive Time.
This looks like a re-engineering of bad practices and a bit of reorganization as well. Likely in response to complaints regarding the permit practices.
Elena, thank you for your kind welcome. That is the item to which I refer in my initial post.
It is a re-alignment of development-related functions, i.e., land and building plan review and permitting.
Unfortunately the perception is that the practices currently in use are bad, but if you look at what other jurisdictions are doing in this regard, you will find that PWC is head and shoulders above the crowd in terms of use of information technology, customer service, and so on. It just so happens that certain members of the development community are very, very vocal and have the ears of Corey and Wally.
Pay very close attention to this, folks. Very close attention.
You know Fontbonne,
I just simply cannot keep track of everything in PWC and land use. LUAC was a catastrophe of epic porportions and there are still many issues remaining that must be addressed. Any and all help keeping up on things would be greatly appreciated.