The time has come for our elected officials to address this impending health crisis in Prince William County. Not only are the sheer number of foreclosures a fiscal crisis, but there is a rising health concern as well. Now we must all band together and start creating some innovative solutions to deal with the foreclosure crisis. This issue affects us all!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/26/AR2008052602036_2.html?hpid=artslot
No county in the region has been hit harder by the foreclosure wave than Prince William, where there are nearly 7,000 empty houses, said neighborhood services coordinator Michelle Casciato. Given recent census estimates, that means about one in 20 houses in the county are unoccupied.
The county has had only a few cases of West Nile virus in recent years, he said, but it’s more of a concern this summer. “The risk is increasing with these vacant and unmaintained homes,” Meehan said.
And new residents aren’t filling up the empty houses fast enough. Although home sales in the county increased 14 percent from January through April compared with the same period last year, foreclosures in the county have gone up 211 percent in that time. There were 645 foreclosures last month in Prince William, Manassas and Manassas Park, court records show.
Frustration and impatience have turned some residents into lawn-care vigilantes, who attack the blighted yards with their own mowers and implements. Technically, it’s trespassing, but health and safety matters come first.
The reality is that liable is VERY hard to prosecute. The accuser must prove tangible consequences as a result of the insult. KG doesnt have anything to worry about. Just like Greg has called me a kook, it is silly to me, but certainly does not rise to the level of a lawsuit.
posted by Red Dawn
ONE more thing to be proud of in America=lawsuits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApUXmN2Abfk
posted by Red dawn
oh yeah….I guess i set my self up for a lawsuit as I keep saying: last post..I am outta here…LOL
I wish I could collect on the times I have said that myself đ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_TUoZq-prw
notGregLetiecq, 27. May 2008, 19:32
“WHWN, did I miss something? How is it that you went from defending Corey Stewart to blaming him?”
I can’t answer for WHWN, but I will share my thoughts. Each opportunity Corey was given to distance himself from Greg and HSM, he chose not to. He would say one thing but do another! I was a huge supporter of Corey, really honestly liked him, I thought he was the real deal. But what I soon began to see, was that Corey was the one continually pushing the illegal immigration rhetoric. To this day, he still wants to use it to bring media attention to himself, in spite of the fact ,that there are serious issues facing this county, none of which are illegal immigration. Corey is the one driving this train towards a cliff, and Greg, is now off to pick up trash at day laborer sites, with nothing better to do, as the county faces the consequences of 7000 forclosed homes. Corey is our elected official. HE was the one entrusted to do his due dilligence, find out the objective facts, and then, and only then, should he have made an informed decision about the impacts of illegal immigration and what course of action, IF ANY, needed to be taken. I for one feel betrayed by his tunnel vision on this one issue. He has allowed land use, transportation, the environment, and the general health of this county to be negatively impacted, while he sought attention over illegal immigration.
Excellent post, Elena. You wrapped it up nicely, then tied it all together with a big red bow. đ
Well thank you Casual, I love big red bows!
When I first joined this blog, I defended Corey Stewart because people were calling him a racist and I knew this not to be true. I defended him because I know first hand that politics is a dirty game, and up to that point, most of his questionable choices had all been made during campaign season.
When more was learned about the Immigration Resolution, who wrote it and why, and when the decidedly negative impact on our economy and reputation became clear, I was critical of the policy but held back on judging Corey. I felt the blame should fall on Greg Letiecq, who with lies so boldly repeated, with outrageous slander, and with internet smoke and mirrors had so masterfully deceived the Board of Supervisors. I assumed he had deceived Corey as well.
Also, I felt Corey had been been mislead by his campaign manager Tom Kopko (you know him as Second Alamo) who told him there was gold at the end of the anti-immigrant rainbow, and wrote most of the rhetoric for which Corey is so often maligned.
My feeling was, if he could just divorce himself from Greg and Tom, he could still come out a winner in this whole disaster… having admitted a pretty significant policy error, he would also have proven that he could drive policy, that he could take a political punch, and that he could use his muscle to manipulate the Board if necessary.
There were several points when I felt certain Corey would cut Greg loose. After a disastrous attempt to turn the county against Chief Deane, for instance, Corey made statements that it had all been Greg’s idea. But as Elena points out, he remains “in bed” with Gospel Greg to this day.
The final straw came with the interview he did with Channel 4 news, saying that he had 7 votes to jam through ANOTHER Immigration Resolution. I was sick and tired of immigration resolutions, just like the rest of the county. Also, I wondered, if the changes made to his precious policy on April 29th were such a big victory for him, why did he have to pull this stunt? And oh my GOD, he looked so ridiculous at the start of the last BOCS meeting when he pulled a Roseanne Roseannadanna: “…never mind.”
For all of these blunders, I am not ashamed to say I still like him as a person. But the sad truth is Corey Stewart will be forever tied to the Immigration Resolution. Even if he wanted to save himself, I don’t think he’s capable of it. He just can’t admit that he made a mistake. In times such as these, this is the worst quality for a leader to have. And if there is one quality that is nearly as damning, it is a lack of judgment and foresight in choosing one’s political allies. In both cases, Corey Stewart gets an F.
I said this on another post, but there will always be hate-mongers and cult leaders out there like Gospel Greg. They are a dime a dozen. But an Elected Official who exhibits the absolute lack of judgment to EMPOWER one of these sociopaths is very rare, and couldn’t be rare enough.
In sum, I tried my best to put all the blame on Gospel Greg, but let’s face it: the man is mentally ill. Corey is the one to blame because he has failed to see this. And Corey is the one to blame because it is Corey, not Greg, who took the oath of office.
Snakes are nothing to be afraid of. Not around here anyway. They are likely to eat rats or maybe just grasshoppers. Mosquitoes on the other hand are a serious problem. The introduced Asian tiger mosquitoes can breed in a tiny amount of water, about thirty drops. Every clogged gutter, barbecuer ash catcher, roadside plastic bag and neglected kids toys in the yard can harbor them. In natural areas they are eaten by fish and frogs and dragonflies but not around our houses. They are vectors for disease, west nile is just the one spreading now(really more like in a month or so) but it could be something else. It is all of our responsibility to protect our community and our families. Please do not let mosquitoes breed where you are at. Please.
Hi Twinad, have not seen you posting in a while.
A few points, pre-coffee, which I am loathe to do but alas….
1. Elvis, I want to clarify that I never give legal advice. I’m not a lawyer. That said, I can smell a rat, and they aren’t all living in the tall grasses.
2. To me, if you support organized racism as CS has done, if you stifle some people because you find them offensive but let racist dialogue continue, and if you have the power and authority to stop it but don’t, you are racist. Some people hide their racism well. They pile other things on top of it to hide it–political ambitions and excuses, for example. Others, like Stirrup who references the “invasion” and touts HSM, aren’t so good at hiding it.
kgotthardt – if the U.S. sent 150,000 people into another country people would say we were invading it (Iraq). What would you call it when Mexico is sending that many people into the US on a monthly basis? Ill tell you, it’s an invasion no matter what kind of spin you put on it.
hello, there is little analogy between a military invasion in which an organized military force is *sent* into another country and a phenomenon in which individuals, all with their own individual reasons, choose to cross a border. The rhetoric of “invasion” is just that, rhetoric. I am curious what official source you have for the figure of 150,000 a month from Mexico. I am not saying you are wrong, but could you please cite the source of the figure? In any case, in this area, most of what you call an “invasion” is not from Mexico but from Central American countries. It also ignores the vast numbers of people who are not in legal status but come from countries not to our south.
Between 40% and 50% percent of people who are currently in illegal immigration status in the United States did not enter the country illegally (Pew Research Center). That does not make them any less illegal in status, however it counters the common picture of the population.
Lucky Duck,
Been super swamped at work so haven’t had very much time to add anything to the discussion. When I see something I have to chime in on, I will!
Hi Leila, no offical numbers, just a very rough estimate. However, lets not get caught up on exact numbers, everyone know that thousands of people enter the US illegally every day. The definition of invasion is the following:
Main Entry: in¡va¡sion
Pronunciation: \in-ËvÄ-zhÉn\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English invasioune, from Anglo-French invasion, from Late Latin invasion-, invasio, from Latin invadere to invade
Date: 15th century
1: an act of invading; especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder
2: the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful
The fact that thousands are entering the US illegally every day by definition is an invasion. Look at the second definition “the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful”. You can’t honestly tell me that thousands of people entering the country illegally every day isn’t the incoming or spread of something hurtful. It’s not rehtoric, it’s fact.
hello, thousands are not 150,000 a month from one country. I’m afraid you confirmed my assumption about your figures.
Invasion is still rhetoric however because you didn’t use the second kind of amorphous notion of invasion, which could pretty much apply to anything en masse you don’t like. Instead, you drew an analogy with the US invasion of Iraq in which a mass force was organized and sent. I am not doubting you feel invaded, but I would note that during the Ellis Island era when the waves of immigration were legal, people also used that rhetoric. As anyone can easily find out, almost every single claim against the current illegal population was used against legal immigrants in past eras as people felt their entire world was being transformed (for the worse) by newcomers. People also have used the rhetoric of invasion today in places where a large legal population is suddenly on the scene.
As for being hurtful, if the equation only involved hurt, this would not be a discussion.
Leila,
I completely agree with your post. And Hello, I completely disagree with yours. Many, many people DO think that immigration is good for the country…the problem is our laws haven’t kept up with the demand that the country has actually had for labor. Is there any way that this country could have gone through the many years of recent economic prosperity WITHOUT undocumented and documented immigrants?! Not a chance…just not enough people to do all the work the economy generated. Would it have been better if the US had adjusted the immigration laws to allow the people who are undocumented to arrive here with documents…absolutely! We would know who is here and what they are doing.
And I am sorry…the term “invasion” IS inflammatory rhetoric. The fact that you don’t see it that way doesn’t make you right.
“there is a reason why Prince William Countyâs foreclosure rate is DOUBLE that of the next worst rate in the state of Virginia. By forcing the exodus of much of the immigrant work force of this county, Chairman Stewart and his cohorts at Help Save Manassass (including John Stirrup) have made the real estate problem worse, much worse. ”
Based on WHAT EVIDENCE? I see a lot of people SAYING this, but I have yet to see any concrete proof that the reason why PWC is so deep in the foreclosure hole is because of that darn Resolution. HOmes were going into foreclosure BEFORE that Resolution was drafted and passed, homes in numbers that exceeded that of Loudoun, Fairfax and other surrounding counties.
The only proof that I have seen to explain the glut of foreclosed homes in PWC is the fact that #1 – PWC had lower cost housing and attracted MANY people who normally would not be able to afford a home and, #2 – an extraordinary high number of sub-prime loans were given to people who normally would NOT qualify for such financing. COINCIDENTALLY – many of those people who were given subprime loans were those of Latino descent or were immigrants (status irrelevant). But to consistently tie the Resolution to the PWC mortgage crisis as being the BE ALL END ALL CATACLYSMIC EVENT that drove our market down is simply WRONG. NO OTHER COUNTY had the amount of lower-cost housing like PWC coupled with the amount of creative financing that has plunged our community into a mess.
Now did the Resolution have no effect? Absolutely not. But to pin our mortgage woes on that is simply…well, I stated my case above.
“Meanwhile, they have not only nixed a vitally important sector of our work force,”
That is your opinion. Some people do not see illegal labor as a vitally important sector of our work force.
“they have reduced our real estate tax base,”
No that woudl be the FORECLOSURE CRISIS.
“our retail sales tax revenue,”
Howso?
“and wounded all aspects of our local economy such that we not compete effectively with neighboring counties during the eventual recovery.”
Nonsense. We may not be able to compete with small businesses that specialize in soccer gear and pupusas, but there is still a segment of higher-end business that does look at PWC for its work. Does anybody care to recognize the fact the Feds are building a huge workspace off business 234 that will relocate workers from DC to our county?
“By chaining himself to the sinking ship that is the Immigration Resolution, Chairman Stewart has also chained himself to the larger problems of economic downturn and foreclosures to which it this doomed policy has certainly contributed.”
Resolution or not, this area was headed towards an economic downturn. The whole friggin nation is. It’s his job to see to it that business is brought in. And frankly, the white-collar businesses aren’t hiring illegals.
“We need a massive PR campaign to, not only obfuscate the failings of Chairman Stewart, but to rebuild Prince William Countyâs crippled reputation.”
See, I do not see PWC as having a “crippled” reputation from the resolution. It demonstrated to the surrounding areas who could have cared LESS that we were sheltering, harboring and funding illegal residents and laborers of VA that we weren’t going to do it anymore. PWC had a bad enough reputation before the Resolution, and – it wasn’t getting any better. Frankly, your mileage may vary, but not everyone sees the Resolution as having been such a blow to our pristine, virginal (*cough*) reputation.
What we have consistently said is that the Resolution surely MUST be responsible for some portion of the PWC loss in real estate assessments & foreclosures. To what extent these thing are inter-related nobody will ever know.”
Then WHY all the conclusions that it IS the reason for our economic mess?
“Whatâs curious is that PWC has double the losses in assessments to surrounding counties AND double the foreclosure rates.”
No, not curious, just a simple fact that housing was inexpensive in PWC and too many people were given subprime loans – people who normally would not qualify for mortgage lending. It’s the same story all over the US in various counties.
“When school gets out for the year, we may see another exodus accompanied by for sale/vacant homes.”
And that coincidentally coincides with the fact many ARMs reset in May…no doubt people will stay until they have to leave.
No, Stewart and Stirrup did not cause the mortgage melt down, but the same mindset and the same âoldâ ways of doing business are a thread that runs through our problems. I am referring to bias. I am also referring to the pushing of high risk loans onto minority applicants. Some mortgage brokers do not care if the individual can pay. They see a strong desire on the part of the applicant to provide a great environment for their family and they take advantage of that desire. A significant proportion of foreclosures are foreclosures of homes that belong to people of color.
Not me bubba,
Where did all those ESOL students go that Greg, Corey, and John brag about leaving because of the resolution? Why is Fairfax and Arlington telling us that new ESOL student are coming from PWC? Did we have a major homeless problem that I not aware of? Where did these families live? I would assume in homes, either rented or owned? If PWC already had an issue with a less then pristine reputation, i.e. the poor stepchild of fairfax, this resolution did not help!
“I wonder if any of the esteemed BOCS, Manassas City or Manassas Park Councils have an inventory of all the homes in their localities that are abandoned or that are in foreclosure. ”
They do. Go to the MP website and you can find a listing of all home owners for neighborghoods, specific to streets. When you see an owner listed like “Deutsche Bank” you know the home is bank-owned. You can also see who is in pre-foreclosure and in auction.
Or you can go to realtytrac.com and do a search by zip. It’s updated quite frequently. Warning – some places have so many properties in limbo you need to scroll in very close otherwise you will be told there are too many listings to view.
“You should just remember that these âinvadersâ are human beings. And they have children that will be voting in droves in the next 10-18 years, so good luck to you trying to keep Manassas and PWC white with red necks.”
Only if their kids are US citizens will they be voting….
And I saw nothing in Loudoun’s post that indicated he wanted to keep PWC white and redneck. Since when are all illegal immigrants Latino? Seems to me the ICE raid at the Kosher Beef processing plant in Iowa a week or so ago netted quite a few illegals who were both Latino and RUSSIAN…
I am certain that if the overcrowding, zoning issues and other problems were done by an influx of Russian illegal immigrants the voices and resentment would be the same. Although you would probabally have a group hating those “damn commies.”
Just saying…
“Is there any way that this country could have gone through the many years of recent economic prosperity WITHOUT undocumented and documented immigrants?! Not a chance⌔
I didn’t realize that Wall Street and the Mortgage Industry were staffed by immigrants…
The US manufactures virtually nothing, we import our energy that we use, export energy we could use and have become a nation of consumers. The “many recent years of economic prosperity” that you tout as being possible with immigrant labor are all a result of shady investments off of which we all fed. It was a continual string of credit-supplied consumption that fueled our economy from the dot-com bubble to the mortgage bubble – all credit driven, dubious investment driven “prosperity”
So please, other than using illegal labor to bring us cheaper food, cheaper housing and cheaper service – how then did they bring about our “many years of recent economic prosperity?” I’m sure the people who hired them will tell you of the profits they raked in en masse and how they “prospered” – but that hardly counts as proof of their presence being responsible for our national “prosperity” that we all now can see was just a big orchestrated farce.
“Where did all those ESOL students go that Greg, Corey, and John brag about leaving because of the resolution?”
Elsewhere.
“Why is Fairfax and Arlington telling us that new ESOL student are coming from PWC? ”
Because they probabally are. In fact, I remeber reading that they’re returning to the counties from which they originally moved – places where they couldn’t afford to buy a home.
“Did we have a major homeless problem that I not aware of? Where did these families live? I would assume in homes, either rented or owned?”
Homes, apartments, townhomes. Apparantly quite a few lived in “rooming houses” – whereby they could pick up and leave at a moment’s notice – no mortgage default necessary. For those who did own – like that illegal alien landscaper who was given a 300k mortgage – they walked away when their ARM reset (thanks to that infamous WaPo article no one here likes to mention) because SURPRISE SURPRISE (Gomer Pyle impersination) he couldn’t afford the payments. Undoubtedly some left because of the Resolution. But please note I said SOME. However it can be proven that many left because they bit off more loan than they could chew – they were sold subprime, creative financing packages that did them in. And in our county, that just coincidentally happened to be a large number of Latinos who relocated to PWC because they couldn’t afford homes in Arlington, or Fairfax – regardless of how creative the financing got.
“If PWC already had an issue with a less then pristine reputation, i.e. the poor stepchild of fairfax, this resolution did not help!”
Well, that’s a matter of opinion.
“I am also referring to the pushing of high risk loans onto minority applicants. Some mortgage brokers do not care if the individual can pay. They see a strong desire on the part of the applicant to provide a great environment for their family and they take advantage of that desire. A significant proportion of foreclosures are foreclosures of homes that belong to people of color.”
Thank you, Green Sleeves, for mentioning the BIG issue at hand, the huge gorilla in the room – the loans and the people who KNOWINGLY sold bad loans to these people who could not pay.
I would take a gander into the poor, oppressed Latino community and zoom in on the RE agents and mortgage brokers who sold their own bad loans to turn a profit. As it is known that some mortgage brokers don’t care if their clients can pay, it is also known that immigrants deal with “trusted” sources within their own community because of shared language and heritage. But funny, nobody wants to go THERE. Instead, the source of all ills and woes is that Resolution…. It’s like seeing the forest for the trees.
The county is holding a meeting to discuss the problem of vacant homes tonight at 7 pm at the McCoart Center’s Potomac Conference Room. Here’s the link to the article in the MJM this morning. It is open to the public but they request that you let them know you’re coming by calling the county’s Neighborhood Services Dept.
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/county_to_discuss_problem_of_home_vacancies_tonight/16165/
I understand people like to debate, and it is interesting to read some of this when it advances the facts and doesn’t include personal attacks. But please, go beyond that to take some action to help your community and neighborhoods. Come to the meeting and talk face to face with others who want to be a part of the solution. You don’t have to make the whole county better, just your block. I have 3 vacant homes on mine. I’m a city resident, and they said I am welcome at the meeting.
The number to register for the meeting tonight: 703-792-7018.
Cindy B,
Thanks for the information. I family stuff going on tonight, and won’t be able to attend. There are 6 vacant house on block. That’s half of what there was a couple of months ago. I look forward to hearing all about the meeting this evening.
Hello âNot MeâŚâ
I did not intend to imply that Stewart and Stirrup were blameless, I just wanted to point out that we are all subject to powers beyond our control and must cope in the best way that we can. I believe that S and S did exacerbate the situation with the Resolution, and that it made a really bad situation worse. This has been difficult for ALL people of color. The systemic attitudes of bias within our culture are a factor. Is it the only factor, of course not? Let’s try to view this with balance. If the resolution would not have made any difference, then why when Latinos lost their homes would they not choose to rent in the same area instead of fleeing completely? Can you admit that the Resolution had an impact?
Respectfully, Green Sleeves
Not Me, Bubba,
I’m going to agree with you about the manufacturing and your concern over our nation becoming completely consumer driven. We are sending manufacturing jobs into countries that don’t have the same labor costs that we have here. The same can be said about technical jobs going to India and inevitably I end up with a tech support person in Indonesia. The United States has some significant policy issues ahead. We are seeing countries becoming more industrialized which in turn is causes competition(demand) for resources like gas.
In hindsight I’m not convinced that the dot-com bubble being driven venture capitalist was bad. We have ended up with some great technology that was developed during that period.
I would like to offer an example, which I have shared before – the fiber optic industry. Many low-skilled workers dug ditches, pulling cable throughout the metro region. Would anyone suggest that the sole beneficiary of this was the utility company? No. We have all benefited from increased productivity. So the notion that they only bring cheaper food, housing, services is not entirely accurate.
It does bear mentioning that after 9/11 the feds did lower interest rates, encouraging construction as a means to stimulate the economy but its doubtful that they in turn increased the H2B(unskilled) workers to fully support that initiative. Additionally, there have been many push factors which have caused immigration to the US. For example, as companies such as Walmart have entered into these countries many small local business owners have become displaced.
It is complicated. How does the United States maintain its standing in the world as an economic super-power when there are so many economic profitable opportunities abroad? We have to be able to compete in a global economy. Which in my opinion is another important underlying factor in this debate – globablization.
Yes, âNot MeâŚâ we must compete. I think that in order to do that we must stop thinking of the profits coming in the next quarter and start thinking long term. We need serious research and development. Strong R and D will bring us the cutting edge technologies we need to ride the front of the wave. Globalization is here to stay and jobs will probably continue to be outsourced at some unforeseen rate. But if we pioneer the new industries, there will be a lag time from the point when the industry reaches maximum viability and the point at which it begins to filter overseas and drift away from the US.
“then why when Latinos lost their homes would they not choose to rent in the same area instead of fleeing completely?”
Lack of rental properties?
“Can you admit that the Resolution had an impact?”
I never said it didn’t. Of course it did, but the magnitude to which it did is my main point of disagreement. There are some here who at every chance they get tie every woe of PWC to that darn resolution when that simply is NOT the case – and especially so in regards to the national mortgage meltdown. California is faring A LOT worse than we are and they have no resolution AND they have a high population of Latinos and immigrants!
“Not Me…” I take accuracy very seriously. Can you give me a reference that there is a lack of rental properties? This should include apartments, condos and single family rentals.
“I would like to offer an example, which I have shared before – the fiber optic industry. Many low-skilled workers dug ditches, pulling cable throughout the metro region. Would anyone suggest that the sole beneficiary of this was the utility company? No. We have all benefited from increased productivity. So the notion that they only bring cheaper food, housing, services is not entirely accurate.”
The beneficiaries of this service are the customer and the company. And yes, it is accurate to claim that immigrant labor (staus irrelevant) brought us cheaper goods and services – not any collective effort on their part.
“Additionally, there have been many push factors which have caused immigration to the US. For example, as companies such as Walmart have entered into these countries many small local business owners have become displaced.”
I fail to see how Wally-World’s demonic presence has demanded an increased need for illegal/immigrant labor…could you please clarify?
“How does the United States maintain its standing in the world as an economic super-power when there are so many economic profitable opportunities abroad?”
Our status as an economic powerhouse has been severely compromised thanks to the mortgage meltdown whereby we sold foreign investors our bad loans. The real question is, but completely off topic from this is, how do we regain our status as a trustworthy trader and rebuild the value of the dollar and in turn rebuild our economic strength from its prior glory?
“We have to be able to compete in a global economy. Which in my opinion is another important underlying factor in this debate – globablization.”
We may have to compete in a global economy, but importing labor, when we export our jobs (low and mid-level) overseas is a craptastic way of going about it…
“Strong R and D will bring us the cutting edge technologies we need to ride the front of the wave.”
Agreed. Unfortunately we have shipped many of our best overseas.
“Globalization is here to stay and jobs will probably continue to be outsourced at some unforeseen rate. ”
Globalization is here so long as there is fuel to keep it going. I am not convinced it is “here to stay” as oil supplies are outstripped by demand.
âNot MeâŚâ I mentioned that I thought it would occur in the future at a rate yet to be determined. The world has grown smaller due to many factors, and economic globalization is one of the results of that trend.
Regarding oil supplies, we do not know where or when the dependence upon fossil fuels will be broken. The next breakthrough may very well occur in India or China or similar location. The wild card!!
âNot MeâŚâ I take accuracy very seriously. Can you give me a reference that there is a lack of rental properties? This should include apartments, condos and single family rentals.”
A search on the WaPo real estate section of available homes in Manassas (including apartments) returns very little.
Also coinsider the fact many people lost homes they intended to sell/rent out because they gambled in the sub-prime mess…
But here you go…
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:ZObeaE7tQ_gJ:www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/003476.pdf+high+cost+of+rental+housing,+prince+william+county&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us
Page 4, Paragraphs 3 and 4. :>)
“The world has grown smaller due to many factors, and economic globalization is one of the results of that trend.”
Agreed.
“Regarding oil supplies, we do not know where or when the dependence upon fossil fuels will be broken.”
I never said anything about dependence, just that supply is being outstripped by demand. The belief an alternative energy source is around the corner or some hybrid technology will save us just in time is a pipe dream. And believe me, big oil knows. Shell’s president recently stated that at the rate at which we consume oil compared to that with what is left and what has been found, trust me when I say…globalization will not exist as we know it does in 20 years time. It will be cost prohibitive to import that plastic doggie doo doo from China that sells like hotcakes at Wally World. But again…that is a whole nother topic and I do not want to divert this thread any more than I have with that.
“The next breakthrough may very well occur in India or China or similar location. The wild card!!”
We can only dare to dream.
“I never said anything about dependence, just that supply is being outstripped by demand.”
when you speak about supply and demand, I believe that the conversation is not complete without discussing dependence.
PS – thank you for the reference to rentals
Wow, I just read through several thousand words of pretzel logic from someone who would very much like to insulate Corey Stewart and John Stirrup from the impacts of the Immigration Resolution.
The problem is that they have made it very clear that the Immigration Resolution was the only issue that consumed their time, the only issue with which they engaged the public and the media, and the only issue on which they chose to electioneer in 2007. It’s forever etched in our minds. They made certain of it.
Meanwhile, back in reality, the Home Foreclosure Crisis was rising up to hit Prince William County like a flood or a hurricane… the kind of thing we budget for with our Emergency Funds. But, alas, our Emergency Funds have already been spent. That’s right, a MILLION DOLLARS of taxpayer money were wasted last October 16th to train our Police Officers on “Probable Cause,” the crown jewel of the Immigration Resolution, only two weeks before the election.
If our Emergency Funds for this fiscal year were NOT ALREADY SPENT, and, I don’t know, maybe saved for an EMERGENCY, perhaps those million dollars of taxpayer money could be used to maintain the abandoned homes that are fast becoming breeding grounds for pests and pestilence.
Just a thought.
It is very likely that history will remember Stewart and Stirrup for two things:
(1) Myopia to the point of obsession with the Immigration Resolution and the media circus that went with it, and (2) Failure to act as the Home Foreclosure Crisis loomed, while simultaneously taking actions that made the problem worse instead of better (see point 1).
No me, Bubba,
What else do you attribute the double rate to? Were Prince William houses less expensive than Faquier, Stafford, or Spottsyvania County homes? I don’t think so. Yet, PWC has double the foreclosure rate.
I don’t think we will ever know the real reason but many people have their own ideas. And as Twinad said, just becaue we believe it doesn’t make it right.
“Were Prince William houses less expensive than Faquier, Stafford, or Spottsyvania County homes? I donât think so. Yet, PWC has double the foreclosure rate.”
They may have been on par pricing with those counties, however one thing you have overlooked is the fact that those other 3 counties are SO FAR OUT, the costs associated with commuting aside from the time spent commuting – made them somewhat less attractive.
I know a family who lived in roseberry and seriously thought about moving to Fredericksburg – until they did a test-run of the commute they would have. They could have had more home, but the time they spent in it would have been negligible.
“I donât think we will ever know the real reason but many people have their own ideas. And as Twinad said, just becaue we believe it doesnât make it right.”
*SIGH* well, everyone has an opinion like everyone has a rectal opening – however the facts in this case outweigh what some people want to make the issue about.
What else do you attribute the double rate to?
Well, for one thing, we have more than double the population of hispanics that Fauquier, Stafford or Spotsy has. Of course, I’m being sarcastic to make a point. I don’t really believe that our double foreclosure rate is due to our population of hispanics. Because then I would be blaming it all on hispanics which would also be wrong. There are many factors involved, but you can not just pick one and blame the entire foreclosure mess on that.
Prince George is also suffering from a rate of foreclosure twice that of its neighbors. It seems to me a simple case of economics. PWC was inexpensive and in the middle of a huge building boom. People dependent on the construction industry (including a large percentage of hispanics) moved here to work, both legally and illegally. With the demand, prices skyrocketed in PWC. Since PWC was more affordable for investment that Fairfax, speculators began putting in contracts on homes, then flipping them the day of closing, driving the prices even higher.
Instead of following a typical pattern of buying a home for one family, lower income workers used subprime loans to qualify with ZERO down to acquire properties they could not afford without the renting out rooms to help make the mortgage payments. This was encouraged by unscrupulous real estate agent/lenders that catered to and took advantage of hispanics who were dependent on their agents due to lack of English. It was also made possible by cultural differences that encourage multifamily living. Not to say that multifamily living is a bad thing, but it is different that what PWC had experienced in the past.
Fairfax and Arlington didn’t have the inexpensive housing nor as much residential construction as we did, so that is why the majority of the construction workers picked our county as opposed to others. As the hispanic population, both legal and illegal, grew so did businesses catering to them. As a county, surveys done before the collapse clearly show that PWC had one of the highest percentages of people involved in construction.
This isn’t to say PWC didn’t see people of other cultures pouring into PWC, because we did, but hispanics moving in were primarily tied to the construction industry or businesses that catered to hispanics in general.
Then the construction industry collapsed along with the sub prime industry. Virtually all construction in PWC completely shut down and with that the construction industry workers struggled to find work. Houses became more crowded as homeowners increased the number of boarders to make payments on loans for homes that the value was dropping on. Overcrowding complaints became worse.
Then the resolution came and the illegals working in PWC started to leave. Hispanic homeowners that were already on very precarious ground, had their interest rates adjust at the same time that no one could find work (not the fault of the resolution, but the fault of the downturn) and at the same time illegal workers, and some legal workers, left the county (because of the resolution). With ZERO down, it was easier to just walk out than stay and struggle to pay on a home that is worth half of what it was when you bought it. So they left. The businesses that catered to hispanics, both legal and illegal, took a hit.
If you want to assign blame, even without the resolution, PWC would still have a larger share of foreclosures than Fairfax, whose economy wasn’t as dependent on residential construction. Many hispanics would have still left PWC, not because of the resolution, but because there was no construction work.
I would venture that the blame is from many of the following reasons: sub prime mess; construction downfall; unscrupulous real estate agents and lenders catering to the hispanic population; speculators; and the resolution. But no one part is more to blame than others and even if you took one out of the picture, such as the resolution, we’d still have a mess in PWC.
I really hope no one is counting on the county being ‘illegal free.’ If it is, they sure left a lot of kids behind at at least 4 middle schools I can think of. In fact, I see almost no change in population or in numbers within that population. I hope folks realize that ESOL students are not necessarily hispanic and that all Spanish-speaking students aren’t in ESOL.
I have read where several people would rather see vacant houses than (best Manassas voice) ILLEGALS. Now where is the thinking here? Vacant houses lower property value faster than almost anything else. Its rather scary when supposedly educated people want the worst for the rest of us because they cannot stand to see people unlike themselves.
Hi, Rotten! Welcome.
I totally agree with your second paragraph…the problem is a lot of the people (not EVERYONE) that so detest “illegals” have a high school education at best. I’ve seen a lot of studies have shown that the more education one has, the more inclined they are to have sympathy for the “illegals” situation and support immigration (legal and illegal) and cultural diversity more than those with less education.
My son is finishing kindergarten at a 60% hispanic population elementary school in the County and I have chaperoned several field trips and there are no children in his class that cannot speak English (11 Hispanics, 6 white, 1 mixed)_. I think some people think ESOL students don’t speak any English at all! A couple of the kids are definitely more comfortable speaking Spanish and still have some trouble with English pronunciation, but for people to act like majority hispanic elementary schools are teeming with students with no knowledge of English isn’t accurate in my experience. My son got tested at the beginning of the school year for ESOL solely based on either his last name or the fact that I checked the box that he is Hispanic since there is no “mixed” box, not sure which or why, but there was zippy chance he needed the services if they had talked to him for two minutes prior to the testing!
Welcome Rotten Ralph !
“the problem is a lot of the people (not EVERYONE) that so detest âillegalsâ have a high school education at best.”
Actually, the real problem is people who have college degrees believe this, Twin. Those are the people in power. Look at JS/CS/GL etc.
Just goes to show you that a degree doesn’t equal many of the things we think it might (or should).
Possibly, but I think it would be fair to say that a good percentage of racists (probably more than 50% so a majority) are less educated, and possibly lower income too. Of course again, just because someone wants to solve the illegal immigration problem, doesn’t make them automatically a racist – I had hoped we’ve moved past that discussion on this board. I don’t think it is fair to label Corey as a racist. On the other hand with Greg I wouldn’t want to debate that argument (that is I’d have a hard time defending him as not being a racist given some things he’s said publicly). But you can’t paint everyone who wants to fix the illegal immigration problem (even if they support some or all elements of the resolution) as being racist.
Twinad, I disagree with your comment about people with more education having “more sympathy for the illegal’s situation”. I think perhaps people with more education see the immigration problem as a whole (big business needing labor, broken borders, hit or miss enforcement, economic problems here and in the immigrant’s home country etc.) rather than simply illegals being here. I would not classify that knowledge as “sympathy”.