Today’s Journal Messenger has an Opinion Editorial concerning the Liberty Street Sign.
107 Thoughts to “Sign Saga Continued”
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Every now and then I have to apologize for carrying a concept forward from a previous post so give it a decent chance for people to read an important issue and comment on it before they move on. This means I have to try to make the issue relevant to the current topic.
A while back, Greg posted a great article warning about the destructive nature and militancy of ethnic and racial groups advocating for their own racist cause. He correctly denounces that as immoral, unlawful, and unjust. I post something like the following about the injustice and danger of racial hatred, destructive “diversity” concepts, and racial militancy:
Michael said on 23 May 2008 at 7:36 pm:
More blatant arrogant, hatred, self-segregation, separatism and “diversity” promotion along racial, gender, religious and ethnic groups lines, instead of the “integration” we are all supposed to believe these “diversity”, factioned polictical groups want us to belief they falsely represent.
Rather than “integration” this “group diversity” demand for privilege and power simply promotes national identity destruction, racism, elitism and cultural warfare.
It makes me sick…real integration is a thing of the past now.
and I get back an answer that defies all logic and evidence of intelligent thought.
The Truth said on 23 May 2008 at 7:44 pm:
Michael,
I think you’re a fascist. Freedom = Diversity.
I had to take some time to think about how anyone could possibly equate “diversity” with freedom, and then call someone a ” fascist”, when they are against racial militancy and racial hatred, racial extremism, racial seperatism, and ethnic self-segregation.
I realized that people like the man that created the sign like the one above is totally ignorant of any concept other than his own racial and ethnic group welfare, and his own concept of what “freedom” means. Freedom to people like this means, I’m the only racial and ethic group that matters on this planet and everyone else can be de-nigrated, oppressed, hated, and made into a racial enemy.
All I need to do is advocate that “diversity” and “inclusion” is a noble cause to bring as many different ethnically and culturally segregated people as possible that demand different religions, different political ideologies aligned along gender, racial, religious and ethnic group privileges, demand cultural politics be made into laws that benifit only ethnic groups, and demand as many languages as possible (especially my own) be recognized as a arrogant means to remain seperate and divided from the common society, and I don’t care if my support for “diversity” gives me a numerical advantage to benefit more than any other individual that belongs to a majority group. I don’t care if my ethnic group militance and arrogance puts people into close conflict with each other becuase my goal is to militantly force everyone to adopt my ethnic belief system, because I want to destroy their belief system, take it over and destroy the current “national identity” so my ethnic group and cultural, religious ideology will dominate all others. I will use their own words of “Freedom” and “Group Rights” against them to prevail as the dominant ethnic group and political ideology. Those that sympathize with me, as “socialists” will assist my ultimate cause to defeat democracy and integration, and take over the regional political government with my cultural and political idealogy.
I was very upset to realize people believe that “diversity”= “freedom” and “anarchy” = “peace”. I was even more upset to be called a “facist” when my comments are clearly about the need for “integration” and the denouncement of cultural and ethnic group separatism, hatred, segregation and militancy.
I just realized that people are clearly “ignorant” in what they understand about the world. So I am going to do my very best to educate people who don’t understand, what freedom really means, diversity really means, integration really means and facism really means, so they don’t go around spouting the very concepts that will ultimately destroy our nation and our peaceful world.
This is a long post so I will do my best to do it in short “bullets”.
Michael said on 29 May 2008 at 11:43 am:
This sign is clearly a militant symbol for ethnic group hatred and intended to incite hatred, anger and disintegration of national identity along ethnic group advocacy lines in favor of ethnic group self-segregation and privilege.
That is why it is so wrong.
Michael said on 29 May 2008 at 12:12 pm:
First let’s understand what “facism” is:
Fascism is a government, faction, movement, or political philosophy that raises nationalism, and frequently race, above the individual and is characterized by a centralized autocratic state governed by a dictatorial head, stringent organization of the economy and society, and aggressive repression of opposition.[1] In addition to placing the interests of the individual as subordinate to that of the nation or race, fascism seeks to achieve a national rebirth by promoting cults of unity, energy and purity.[2][3][4][5]
Fascists promote a type of national unity that is usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, national, racial, and/or religious attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, economic planning (including corporatism and autarky), populism, collectivism, autocracy and anti-liberalism (i.e., opposition to political and economic liberalism).[6][7][8][9][10][11][12]
The key element in understanding this concept is promotion of a national unity that is based on ethnic, cultural, national, racial or religious attributes. In other words “separate” yourselfs into self-identifying ethnic and religious groups, demand separation into ethnic groups by law and legal advocacy, demand privilege, organize into ethnic aligned social and political groups and then refer to your group as “us” and “them”. i.e. We “demand” that you allow us to claim we are the “real” native Americans. “You” are the oppressors because you will not allow us to segregate into our own ethnic and political groups to defeat you. You will not a allow “us” to break “your” laws. And if you try to stop our cultural revolution, self segregation, refusal to integrate, and not give us our demands for ethnic privilege, we will call you “facists”, “racists” and members of the KKK.
Funny how every militant group advocating “black power”, or “brown power”, “red power”, “yellow power” or “religious power” sees only the “other” group” as the KKK. Oops..what we are really saying is you are “bad” if you are a majority, and you are only bad if you are “white”.
Ignorance, complete ignorance of what “facism and “racism” really means. “racism” is ANY political entity aligned along racial and ethnic group lines advocating for their own special privileges and “laws” while trying to oppress and destroy all other “individuals” not part of their ethnic or racial group using concepts that promote your ethnic group supremacy using a concept of “diversity” that really means “privilege” and “advantage” and “racial” balancing so you get 50% or more political leverage and power even if your ethnic group only represents 10% of the individuals in a nation.
When you see it, you need to denounce it, because it will lead to war and conflict. You have only to look at the rest of the world’s religious and ethnic wars to know this.
The cancer is group segregation, cultural and ethnic group political identification and “diversity” advocacy rather than “integration” advocacy.
Michael said on 29 May 2008 at 12:21 pm:
If you do not focus only on “individual rights”, only on following the “law” applied equally to all regardless of ethnic, gender, racial and religious group” and DEMAND “integration” of individuals into a common society, “privilege” based only on talent, skills, ability and intelligence blind to racial, gender, religious and ethnic group identity and political advocacy, then you will yourself, be the very racist, facist, and privilege seeking racial, gender, religious and ethnic group you so clearly denounce, seek conflict with, self-segregate from, and hate when you are not the majority.
Truth: I am way distant from being a “facist”. I’m trying to save my Nation from self destruction and disintegration from within as a result of its recent belief in destructive socialist ideologies.
I belong to NO ethnic, racial, gender or religious group.
Michael said on 29 May 2008 at 12:35 pm:
Freedom according to the concept of Greek democracy, is a gift only to individuals. It opposes all political oppression along ethnic, racial, gender, religious group lines. It is individual “freedom” to not be oppressed by any self-identifying group, advocating the use and exercise of “diverse” laws, and to not be oppressed and forced into conflict by social division into “political groups” that advocate for complete political control and dominance over all other racial, ethnic, gender, and religious groups that don’t belong to their own. Freedom is the basic right for each individual to be a “member” of an “integrated” and culturally “united” and politically “united” nation, in those days known as “Greece” and “Greecians”, where a multitude of “captured” cultures were politcally and socially “integrated” under a “common” law obeyed by all. “diversity”, “disintegration”, “factionism”, and “political” and “cultural” separatism, was not part of the Greek equation of Freedom and Democracy.
Freedom did not equal “diversity” and “ethnic group” political power. In the Greek Senate, Freedom and Democracy equaled “individual” rights (only), common law and integration”. Out of many, one. Not out of many, many.
Michael said on 29 May 2008 at 1:30 pm:
Freedom and Democracy does not promote that is is OK to seek politcal advantage and advocacy using ethnic, racial, gender and religious group self-segration and alignment to gain economic and social advantage or to make laws that benefit only one gender, racial, religious or ethnic group over all other individuals (so called “protected classes”).
Such concepts will destroy Democracy, hurt all individuals and remove individual freedoms and protection for ALL under fair and equitable laws, resulting in a conflicted and warring society align along racial, gender, religious and ethnic group lines.
What do you think is happening in this national presidential election? Destruction of “integration”, Freedom and Democracy and replacement by political “factions” aligned along racial, gender, religious and ethnic group lines of advocacy. THAT leads to “facism” and militant signs like the one above.
Most of you “social engineers” just don’t get this concept of impending national destruction, because you don’t notice it happening in the rest of the world’s religious, racial, and ethnic group wars. It has come home to America.
The sign attempts to coopt the black civil rights movement in America and use it to create special privileges for Hispanics, such as the right to break U.S. law and not be held accountable.
Michael, you continually and continually and continually make the same argument. Just what do you expect to accomplish or expect the posters here to do? Unfortunately, you sound as though you lost out on some opportunity due to affirmative action, quotas, or some other slight. Are we all to accept a white, male view of the world? We won’t.
I can’t wait for the day I can go to the Famer’s Market and NOT have to look at that sign anymore.
Censored-
NO, WON’T!
Peppermint Patty, this is probably just an opening salvo with a freedom of speech lawsuit to follow. I’m curious about what the next move will be and who will be funding it.
I’m waiting for tomatoes to make their appearance at the farmer’s market.
@ Michael,
some questions…
If your daughter married a black man and converted to Islam of her own free will and lived happily with her inter-racial Muslim American family, is this diversity or integration in your opinion?
Saturday and Sunday are mandiated by law to be work free secular holidays and have no historical connection to any organized religion(s)?
The 13 origional colonies were created by like minded individuals with one sole purpose, to be united under one lanugage under one legal system and that all peoples wishing to live on this continent (whos borders have always been clearly cut and indeginous peoples all of the same language) are mandated to conform to the natural local language; ENGLISH.
this is true?
and on a more philosophical plane…. What higher authority has by direct verbal mandate, declared that the United States of America to forever be ruled on the principals of Western Civilization and contained in one geological area when world history and science prooves that there is no perminance in organic existance?
Your voice and power in the present are limited by the span of your life. I very much believe in a higher power of which controls the courses of time, space and the spiritual river that flows thru both. Mandating integration into a fixed way of life and faith fights evolution and it’s a battle you will lose. Social Evolution and migration are constants in the course of time and space, it’s the “Asscent of Man.” and nowhere is it mandated that “Western Civilization” shall be the cradle of progress for eternity. Regans “Shining City On a Hill” is as subject to natural and culteral evolution as were the great mountians that now lay as dust at the bottom of the sea.
Embracing human diversity is moving with the flow of time and space and excepting your own mortality. Mandating that peoples must conform to a small set of ideals on pain of exile is playing GOD, is placing dogma above reality. The Romans, Persian, Eqyptians, Nazis have all tried to preserve a cultural norm and force the ideals upon other cultures, they are also all nothing more than paragraphs in Histroy books and vanishing ruins and in time will be forgoten, but global divcersity continues.
A few in the United States, like yourself are advocating for the same type of standardization of the “American” way of life, but it is a mindless fantasy based upon but the History you choose to remember. America since it’s founding has been a culterally diverse nation who’s unity and peace have always waxed and waned, but generally has remained stable due to the freedom to be diverse in practice yet united in Common Human Morals.
Throughout our History, various individuals have tried to mandate their personal dogma as National Law and in some cases succeed briefly, but evntually the laws get overturned. Slavery, Racial Segregation and Anti-Immigration have all been seen as accecptable in the U.S. untill Cultural Evolution caused us to question their morality, caused us to devide, fight, die and ultimatly have the Higher Cause thrive where the intollerance and dogma die and fade away.
It will be the same with your mandates of preservation and manditory assimulation of all peoples to your self written doctrine of Americanism. It is a Nativist illusion that will be disolved in the course of time and space by Social Evolution. Somewhere down the line your descendents will cease to speak English and will cease to be of the race they currently are. That is reality and your descendents can either smoothly enter that future or they can be forced unwillingly into it by the actions you take in your short lifespan. Either way, these are the final days of Western Civilization, the last days of Pompeii. For some it is the Apocalypse, for others it is just another step in the asscent of humanity.
Censored-
Next move and funding, I haven’t the slightest idea. It should be interesting. I guess we’ll have to sit back, wait, and see. The sign is an eyesore, no matter what it says. I just don’t think it fitting to have such a display on a historical residential property.
I got some pretty good tomatoes from Florida last week at the FM. A few weeks back I got a nice patio tomatoe plant(3′ tall) for only $4. The man said it would yield medium size tomatoes. I already have couple on the vine, and tons of blooms. Growing your own veggies is a great way to save some bucks at the grocery store. I’m waiting for some decent green tomatoes to fry.
Bravo Rod2155, 16:30!! Standing ovation!!!! What an excellent essay.
I will be very glad when that wall comes down. I think it has caused nothing but anger and division in the community. Mr. Fernandez made his point, but then he took it too far. He might have well just flipped the bird to the Manassas City Council–and to the citizens–with his “I’ll get around to it sometime in June” thing. He only reinforces the perception that illegal immigrants are lawbreakers, and makes it hard for people to see past that perception. This has gone far beyond trying to start a dialogue, and City residents have had enough already. Thanks to the City Council’s inaction and some powerful lawyers on his side, Mr. Fernandez has come to believe that he’s untouchable.
Speaking of tomatoes, I spent a good part of my weekend digging up my yard for a larger garden. With food prices the way they are, I’m doing some canning this year. Are fried green tomatoes just made from unripe tomatoes, Peppermint Patty? This Northern girl would like to try those.
Freedom of speech is fine. People ignoring the law and playing by different rules because they’re non-white, and therefore allowed special privilege, is not. If I put a sign up in my yard saying what I thought of our ruling class and their mad scramble to lower American wages using lower-class Mexicans and El Salvadorans as pawns, it wouldn’t be allowed.
Michael, 29. May 2008, 13:53
I belong to NO ethnic, racial, gender or religious group.
Say what????
Emma,
Why yes they are. They are favorite of mine. You can use any color tomatoe when it’s green to fry. Heck, some of the kids even eat ’em here. I plan to plant a couple of other things. I’d like to grow some cukes to pickle myself.
The sign really does NOThelp Mr. F’s cause one bit. A neatly manicured lot would look better at this point.
Rick Bentley,
This I agree with
“Freedom of speech is fine. People ignoring the law and playing by different rules”
With all the zoning violations, etc. it just a matter of time. If he is fighting for freedom of speech, then by golly, make sure your i’s are dotted and t’s crossed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po47SNloMBg
posted by Red Dawn
and by the way, has anyone heard from Kenneth Reynolds? Funny, how you get worried about posters you may have never met 🙂 I hope all is well!!!
I think the citizens of the City could make a case for violation of equal protection if these “special privileges” continue. It’s sickening to see our elected leaders so cowed by this man.
Preferential treatment? You decide.
Zoning violations at 9500 Liberty
2005
September 8, 2005: Zoning complaint made, header missing above door, no approvals from Architectural Review Board, no building permit, trash accumulation, possibly being rented as apartments.
September 29, 2005 Zoning reinspection, new windows and doors installed without permit.
October 3, 2005: Notice of violation issued.
2006
January 27, 2006: Zoning reinspection, possible multifamily violation.
January 30, 2006: Zoning reinspection notes three inoperable vehicles on property.
January 31, 2006: Notice of violation issued.
February 16, 2006: Reinspection, notes inoperable vehicles removed, front door alteration a zoning violation.
June 18, 2006: Structure destroyed by fire. One firefighter receives burn injuries. The fire investigation report concludes “The origin of the fire was in the attic area immediately above the common demising wall between the second floor bathroom and the right rear bedroom. My observation of the burn pattern and depth of charring of the wood framing in the attic along with video, confirm this conclusion. Based on the available evidence and barring any undetected incendiary intent, my conclusion is that the case of the fire was a failure in the electrical wiring and/or the extension cords that were being used improperly.”
June 21, 2006: Building official issues Notice of Unsafe Structure.
June 23, 2006: Inspection request issued, notes missing windows and severe roof damage.
June 30, 2006: Building official determines 61% structure’s value is destroyed, owner instructed to secure building.
July, 2006: Owner installs tarps to prevent rain damage. They subsequently fail to prevent additional damage.
2007
January 29, 2007: Zoning complaint filed for Demolition by Neglect, orders property repaired or will be ordered demolished by the city.
February 22, 2007: Zoning re-inspection, still non-compliant, issued Notice of Violation for Demolition by Neglect, 30 days to comply.
March 1, 2007: Property owner says they are securing the building and may demolish it.
March 12, 2007: Zoning reinspection, appropriate steps not being taken, forwarded to city attorney.
March 14, 2007: Zoning recommends structural engineer/contractor evaluate stabilization.
March 16, 2007: Owners attorney files for appeal of Notice of Violation.
March 20, 2007: Engineer report says structure is unsalvageable.
March 27, 2007: Building official re-inspection, now 86% of structure value is gone. Extensive insect damage noted.
April 12, 2007: Building permit for demolition endorsed, site to be cleared in 90 days.
May 14, 2007: Architectural Review Board says owner must take action by July 26 or city will proceed to court to demolish structure itself
May 17, 2007: email from nationwide insurance adjuster says owner paid $154,000 on fire claim, $25,000 additional will be paid, but owner is using proceeds on a property in Maryland.
June 13, 2007: Demolition deadline expires, structure remains.
September, 2007: All but one wall is demolished, and a billboard is erected on one remaining wall of the structure.
October 31, 2007: Property owner provided with Special Use Permit application for semi-private use in regards to public events. This is never filed.
November 6, 2007: Notice of Violation issued for not obtaining a building permit to alter the structure, ordered to obtain building permit by November 26. That deadline was later extended to December 5th, 2007.
November 19, 2007: Zoning complaint for loose trash and exterior accumulation of debris, porta johns (public nuisance), and improper storage of construction materials.
December 4, 2007: Zoning re-inspection, site is determined to be non-compliant.
December 4, 2007: Complaint regarding unsanitary conditions with porta johns filed.
December 5, 2007: Deadline for building permit application expires without action by property owner.
December 5, 2007: Violations of noise ordinances, disturbing the peace and unpermitted demonstrations noted by MCPD.
December 6, 2007: Building official delivers file to city attorney for legal action. Legal action is not filed.
December 10, 2007: health/safety re-inspection of porta johns, no signs of leakage or smell.
December 10, 2007: Warning issued for failure to obtain Special Use Permit for semi-public use for events, following an article in the MJM about having the site be a way-station for the Antorcha Gudulapana that hosted hundreds of people.
December 11, 2007: Notice of Violation issued for failure to obtain building permit to alter the structure, accumulated trash, improper storage of building materials, corrective action required in 15 days. That deadline expires with no action taken.
2008
January 2, 2008: Property owner files for building permit for 200 foot L-shaped accessory structure.
January 4, 2008: Building permit rejected for failure to adhere to property setback limitations, wall cannot be the primary structure on property, drawings are incomplete.
January 24, 2008: Property owner submits drawing of L-Shaped wall, without building permit application.
February 19, 2008: Property owner emails saying he will submit a new building permit application.
February 21, 2008: Drawing returned with explanation that a new building permit application is required along with the drawings.
April 25, 2008: Property owner again states intention to apply for a building permit.
Anon-100,
Thanks for posting the list. However, it has been from personal experience that the problem lays WITHIN zoning. It really is a joke and I was on the receiving end. ( a problem had PRE-existed to our ownership and HAD been going on for a LONG time)
With that said, I have to say that there is NO “Preferential treatment”
To clear up confusion about being on the receiving of zoning, it was a rental property before we had ownership ( some of you are aware that I bought my homestead from my parents)
Then it became OUR problem as the NEW owners. We are DOERS/respectable problem solvers ,yet still faced many challenges. The kicker was the so called violations depended upon the inspector that came out and so on and so on…WAY to much history to sum it but I can say that it is a problem within zoning. ( most of it was pathetic!)
Michael,
Funny how you speak of unity…and ignore how this resolution is ripping the community apart. This sign you despise so much is a REACTION to what was done to the immigrant community. If you abuse your friend, he will end the friendship. If you continue to abuse him…he will fight back.
Emma,
Congratulate me. I haven’t touched that damn thing all afternoon. Be proud of me!
My hat is off to you Rod2155!!!
Hey, Anon-100 Where did you get the 411? Work for the City , a Councilman or just a very, very involved resident????
Oh, great, you had to mention it. Guess what I’m doing NOW? :0
What was done to the immigrant community? They are expected to follow the rule of law. There is nothing wrong with that. As far as abusing a friend, there are situations where both friends sincerely feel abused. They get so wrapped up in their own sense of victimization that they can’t see the other’s point of view.
Dingidad,
re: your post at 21:32
I agree and posted pretty much the same thing ( I hope, correct me if I am wrong) on another thread. Here it is
ed Dawn, 29. May 2008, 21:41
anon,
I agree about beating the “dead horse” and it is like a sequel to a horror movie that ends up humorous after the 13th chapter and then dumb as hell. ( Friday the 13th or more creative Alien vs. Predator)
I do not think that all of the people here are racist and just like the Frick’n sign on Liberty is trying to suggest!
Honestly, I am sick of and HAVE been at the suggestion of such.
Let’s see what people would do if we take the word ” racism” out of play AND for a CHALLENGE, the argument of the ” rule of law”
The reason why I challenge suggest this is because as LAW changes, so does RACISM.
The question is what are we fighting for?
Dingdad,
This is what I was trying to agree with you about. It ALL get’s lost in the debate being made to feel like the VICTIM.
“They get so wrapped up in their own sense of victimization that they can’t see the other’s point of view”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IV9an1EE9M
AND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoNXsne8exg
posted by Red Dawn
Michael, I’m curious as to whom you are addressing as “social engineers,” since I just noticed you posted these exact words on bvbl at 1:30 pm today. I took valuable time away from playing 20Q to read through your posts, and you make some interesting points. But I’m still trying to get over your line about not belonging to any race, gender, etc. Is that really an option? Because personally, I’d like to opt out of my gender whenever I have to wait in line for a ladies room.
All kidding aside, religious, racial and ethnic group wars have existed since before Moses. I don’t see a new looming crisis there. I think most people come here because they are attracted to the good life that we enjoy, not because they want to deliberately tear it apart. The problem comes when the migration is uncontrolled and laws are enforced sporadically or not at all. When the laws and the lawmakers are weak, people will take advantage, just as Mr. Fernandez has done.
Emma,
You asked my NEXT question ( I have a endless supply, if anyone needs to borrow and I would be more than HAPPY to share 🙂 )
“Michael, I’m curious as to whom you are addressing as “social engineers,””
and pretty much I asked the same thing to Michael and copied and posted to Dingidad .
See My comment to Dingidad at 21:50
and the thread that I was referring to:http://www.antibvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/27/261/
CensoredbyBVBL. That’s a fair question. What do I expect? I expect people to google a “diversity” site and look at the number of sites that advocate for numercial and racial balancing privilege just for a particular ethnic, gender, racial or religious group. I expect people to shut these groups down, and start groups that only offer laws and solutions for everyone the same, regardless of their gender, race, religion or ethnic group. I expect people to stop thinking their own race, gender, religion and ethnic group is better than everyone else and stop trying to elect people to power that only represent that groups own ethnic interests. I expect people to stop advocating for “socialism’ and start advocating for national unity based only on “individual” rights.
Then what happens to freedom of association?
rod 2155. 1st question. International marriage and inter-racial marriage is in my opinion “integration”. So is cultural integration and political integration. (this does apply to cultural food and cultural entertainment concepts). So is speaking the same language understood by all. Diversity is demanding to be legally and politically different, with your own set of laws, refusing to marry except in your own religion or ethnic group, thinking your race, religion, gender, or ethnic group deserves special privilege and you want no-one in your culture or religion or gender or race to ever “integrate” but always remain “different” and apart from the rest of society (i.e. the Muslim or Japanese social code for example) and insisting that more and more people belonging to groups of only particular ethnic groups get priviliged racial balancing opportunities that only benefit their ethnic, racial, gender or religious group. Now do you understand what is wrong with diversity, and inclusion, and multiculturalism?
Freedom of association is about people associating with people, individuals associating with individuals, not “groups” only associating and politically aligning with groups of only their own culture, gender, race or religion. We went round and round with this about the league of women voters about this same political advocacy issue. The political advocacy of these groups only benefits the legal and political insterests of their own ethnic, gender, religious or racial group. I say that is seriously wrong.
rod2155 said:
No higher authority than might. But then again this can be true for all peoples and all cultures throughout history. A nation survives if it can. If it is under attack and cannot defend itself, it dies. This is as true for nations as it is for individuals. Western civilization will survive if we are strong enough to defend it. If not, it might die from without or die from internal rot. While there is no permanence in organic existence, western civilization is not necessarily an organic entity because it has produced a set of ideas, rooted in the concept of individual liberty…and ideas, unlike organisms, live forever. It says ‘i am the owner of myself…i am a slave to no person and no ephemeral movement. No one may lay claim to my life, liberty, or property without my consent.’
Can western civilization die? Yes, but the ideal of individual liberty can be reborn and reborn forever.
Agreed. It has everything to do with comfort and cowardice and nothing to do with freedom.
They are not constants. To say so is to degrade all of human civilization. They happen because we choose to make them happen. And we can just as easily go backward as go forward.
True it is western civ is not mandated to be the cradle of progress forever…but neither is it not mandated. No one can mandate such a thing. We preserve our goodness because we choose to do so.
Where is it written that goodness and righteousness cannot live forever if we choose to make the sacrifices necessary to preserve it? What you call evolution can just as surely equal devolution.
Curious how you assume the death of the west will invariably mean an ascent for humanity. What will you say if it actually leads to a descent into hell? Don’t you recall that a thousand years after Rome fell, the roads they had built were still the best roads in existence. As flawed as their society was, some of their ideals survive to this day. Those ideas were lost for a thousand years because the Roman society allowed itself to rot to death from within. Possibly because there were those who said Rome should die, because it will lead to an ascent in the human condition.
Where does your definition of freedom of association come from? I thought I was free to join the hospital Ladies Auxiliary, the Future Farmers of America, the Sons of Italy, the KKK or the ACLU. When did that change?
Rod2115, yes English is a unifying language, for most cultures of the world. Without it we would have even more hatred.
I agree with you mandating “integration” rather than “dis-integration” and multiculturalism is the best way all cultures can create a common culture, and national unity that survices the longest over time and cultural change. Advocating for cultural diversity and racial/ethnic/religious separatism into disintegrating factions and groups is the quickest way to put a nation into turmoil and conflict.
Global diversity as a peacemaking concept is a myth. Look at the most politically diverse countries, they are all at war, or had conflict over racial, religious, gender or ethnic culturally divisive issues in the very recent past. The nations that lasted longest in history did not advocate for cultural “supremacy” and divided “political” factions, but instead advocated for cultural unity and “integration”. Hitler for example did not advocate for “integration” he advocated for “supremacy” of one cultural group over another, the remain separate and distinct from the rest of society. Do you social engineers not get this? Hitler was a social engineer….a very evil one. So was Stalin…
You are free to join whatever you want. You can join the supremacy group the KKK if you wish. I would continue to fight this and all other racial, gender, religious, ethnic supremacy groups, including the “League of women voters” as belonging to destructive hate groups. If you remove any reference to race, religion, gender or ethnic group in these group’s titles, then they are most likely trying to politically take care of everyone equally. Not so for groups that put these “advocacy labels” along ethnic, gender, racial and religious group lines in their mission statements and in their political advocacy platforms. They are only trying to take care of their own special interests and care nothing for anyone not of this racial, gender, religious or ethnic group. Why can some of you not see the error in your support logic for these groups, unless we are are talking only about “white supremacy” groups. They are ALL evil and destructive of a healthy “integrated” society.
You can’t force people to totally “integrate,” Michael, unless you are advocating eliminating freedom of religion, right of assembly, etc. Who gets to decide what the “common culture” will be? Are you advocating the elimination of all organized religion, as well?
I get the impression that you are advocating a kind of nondenominational “groupthink.” You can’t “associate” as individuals. By definition, association is a group activity involving shared interests. People will always feel more comfortable among “their own” and will branch out if they feel the need and feel safe to do so.
Shades of “1984” here.
Rod2115, I am not advocating for a standard American way of life, only that political groups aligned along racial, religious, gender, and ethnic group stop trying to define it only in their own best interests. It is a fractured and factionsit way to lead a nation to conflict and not to peace between all racial, gender, religious and ethnic groups. John Adams was extremely afraid of these types of “political” factions getting control of the people’s “individual” voice.
Oh screw the sign on Liberty street!
There are more important things happening.
Look at the SIGN of the times….things must be bad ..
Is NOTHING sacred?!?!?
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/CouldUSLosetheKingOfBeers.aspx
posted by Red Dawn
Those nice ladies at the Mall signing people up to vote are a “destructive hate group”? You must have been the little kid who never got picked for a team in gym class.
Good grief, I need some sleep.
Again you miss the concept, I’m not saying we “force” people to integrate, only that we remove the groups political influence, demand for privilege and special laws (by making them unlawful to operate in that way) and those who advocate only for ethnic, gender, religious and racial speciul interests. We “encourage” people to join groups that are gender neutral, racially neutral, religiously neutral and ethnically neutral. This concept is the opposite of multiculturalism where we “encourage” people politically to demand social “differences”, special laws and power as groups instead of power as individuals under a common law, applied equally to all.
All you have to do it look at a group’s political agenda. The real truth is in the “legal” positions they advocate for aligned along thier own gender, racial, ethnic or religious group interests. That is destructive to everyone else not part of that gender, religious, racial or religious advocacy group.
What about Milwaukee Brew? They can’t move out of the country can they?
“individuals” decide on the common culture, not groups. That’s not orwelliam, thats democracy. You don’t get it do you? You are so entrenched in your own concept of political group advocacy by racial, gender, religious and ethnic group political agenda’s that you can’t see the injustice and error of it.
Alanna now we are being “trite” and silly about an very important concept of “individual” rights. I’m assuming your mean that as a joke so I laugh with you..