The article in the Washington post, which focused on allocating money for services to help LEGAL immigrants become citizens, was the target of many bloggers to spew hatred. It was interesting to me, having read so many previous self righteous comments from the “anti illegal immigrant side”, that there would be this outpouring of disgust for a program that would promote citizenship to LEGAL residents. Isn’t that what we all want, integration? The reality is that this issue DOES revolve around an anti Hispanic theme, fear of being “overtaken” by a different culture, fear of losing our “Americanism”. But what is America? As a culture, have we not evolved from so many different immigrant experiences? I believe being American is not about a specific culture, but about an ideal. An ideal of freedom, of individualism. A belief that we can all achieve our dreams if we are willing to work hard. We are the land of opportunity. We are Americans, all connected, by a common goal……freedom.
“This is about getting people who have become [legal] permanent residents to become U.S. citizens . . . so they can become full participants in this society,” said J. Walter Tejada (D), chairman of the Arlington County Board, at a news conference to announce the proposal.
The three-year plan, which was primarily developed by the advocacy groups CASA deMaryland and Tenants and Workers United of Virginia, is modeled on similar initiatives in California and Illinois. It would use a combination of federal, state, county and private sources to fund as many as 25 “Naturalization Support Centers.” The centers would provide a range of services, including educational outreach, test preparation, legal counseling, referrals to English courses and assistance with filling out applications.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/28/AR2008052802973.html
Elena,
Thanks for pointing this out. The comments on this article in WaPo are quite illuminating. Anyone who emphatically denies that bigotry is at the heart of the anti-immigrant movement…or that the focus is only upon those who broke the law…is proven wrong my the bottomless pit of bile spewed out in the comments on this article.
Those who insist the anti-immigrant movement is only about the rule of law…I wonder if the bile you hear in the comments, can also be found around their dinner table when no one who would expose them is listening.
Although a Naturalization Support Center in Virginia would benefit me personally, I am strongly against spending government funds on this. If advocacy groups want to spend private donations, that’s fine.
I am very opposed to illegal immigration. I am also concerned about my country not being able to assimilate the largely uneducated Hispanic population that it has, be it legal or not. I am very opposed to the bigotry that I have seen among some Hispanics, so it should be noted that not all racists are white. (It should go without saying that I am very opposed to all bigotry).
For someone to revert to the racism card each time there is a disagreement weakens defences against true racism.
And so it goes. We’ve been hearing for months now that the issue is “Illegal Immigrants,” not those who “waited in line and followed our laws. I read this and see “Hispanic” or “Mexican” interchanged with “Illegal Immigrants.”
At the core, this entire “Illegal is Illegal” issue is about racism, and about using racism to achieve personal political power.
Legal or illegal, all human beings deserve respect and fair treatment.
Dignidad, have you read the responses to the the WaPo articles when the paper has covered immigration topics? The response section has become a cesspool of hate. I wish readers who oppose illegal immigration would address the hatred that roils over there. It would make their claims that there is no racism, xenophobia, hatred, intolerance involved in the “anti-illegal immigration, the law is the law is the law” side. If they (the reasonable faction) don’t take the spewers to task, the vocal side (the haters) will appear to be their voice as well.
If you haven’t read these types of comments, I’d suggest you search a couple articles about immigration and PWC or Manassas – or immigration in general – and read the comments that accompany the articles. I realize that the WaPo has a national readership and some of these responses are probably generated by some hate group’s email loop but there are some predictable local folks posting there as well.
That so much vitriol can be spewed at immigrants who are here legally belies the argument that following the law is the main concern of the anti-immigration forces.
You call it hate, I call it boiling anger at the way our politicians sentence many of us to compete with or live sandwhiched in between people who break our rules, lower our wages, and make our neighborhoods bad to live in.
If the “hate” you speak of really existed and was really the raw racism you claim, it wouldn’t be hard for someone to blow up a day labor spot or drive by shooting or come out of a car with pipes and beat people. None of that is happening. What you have is a rhetorically violent anger and frustration that our politicians continue to lie to us and enforce only the rules in America that protect the wealthy’s interest.
There needs to be a more aggressive and assertive grassroots strategy that will move forward to make and win the moral, practical and political arguments for undocumented immigrants to gain a path to becoming documented or to become citizens. The right-wing xenophobes have too often presented themselves as mainstream defenders of the American way of life, but they are nothing of the sort. They use lofty arguments to hide their disdain for immigrants from Latin America. Their dreadful policy goal is to drive immigrant families, most of them Latino, out of this country. They claim that by enforcing the laws on the books, immigrants will self-deport. But there is nothing humane about a deliberate strategy of repression aimed at driving 12 million undocumented immigrants and their millions of U.S. citizen children and loved ones out of the country. This is nothing less than a nonviolent form of ethnic cleansing. They also believe that over 12 million undocumented immigrants can be deported. I have read posts on bvbl where some ignorant statements have been posted like “I’ll put two or three in my car and drive them to the border”. That is the biggest bunch of nonsense I have ever heard.
I wonder how historians will look back and judge the treatment of immigrants and their families. I think it could be one of the defining issues of our time. Will we be known as a generation take took action with smart policies and humane treatment or will we be known as a generation of intolerance and repression? Will we as a society rise above the hostility that drives this racially charged issue, or will we give in to coded language, politics and the deepening of racial bias? Will our national leaders fix a broken system? Will polarization widen the space currently being filled by anti-immigrant state and local measures? Will future generations look back at ours as the generation that joined the great American tradition of hard-won victories over the politics of exclusion? Will our generation be known as the generation that gave in to the forces of that were determined to drive millions of vulnerable immigrant workers and families from our midst?
It’s up to us in the caring community to defend human rights and to identify the stakes. If we do so, then maybe we will build the power and build the unity to bend the curve of history toward justice for all.
Like Scott Nolan said ” Legal or illegal, all human beings deserve respect and fair treatment.”
Rick Bentley, big business has routinely stuck it to the small guy. The textile mills in New England moved South where there were no unions in order to pay smaller wages. Then they moved out of the country. You see that happening now with IT jobs. It’s easy to scapegoat the other little guy (the Hispanic neighbor who is “taking your job”) but harder to take on large industries and your own government. Big business/government likes for you to blame your neighbor because it takes the heat off of the true controllers of your fate.
The discussions that should be taking place in this country should involve how we are going to fit into a global economy. How do our citizens maintain a certain standard of living? IOW, larger issues than have been addressed by our BOCS.
I’ll step on the third rail and ask…what do you do if jobs in your field will never pay more? What do you do if you live in one of the area’s cheapest subdivisions and prices continue to slide downwards and crime continues to increase? At some point you have to decide to accept the fact that life won’t continue on as you’ve known it or you have to address the larger issues at play and not merely the guy next door.
Adding additions to houses for use as low cost rentals is to help legal immigrants? Don’t kid yourselves, those centers would certainly be used to obtain legal citizenship for those already in the country illegally. This is a Trojan horse. Look at the organizations that are promoting this. None have come out against illegal immigration to any degree.
“All humans deserve respect and fair treatment” So what’s your view on throwing someone in jail for years for breaking a law? I guess you consider that disrespectful. I consider it fair treatment.
I didnt really see anything on the other blog about this. Walter Tejada is one of the most bigoted people in politics. You all think corey stuart is bad, this guy has been known to advocate lawlessness and he just loves the illegals. he’s the biggest advocate for open borders there is. MWB loves this guy.
I would agree with SA on this one, it’s likely a “trojan horse” issue to assist everyone, including illegals. I would not be surprised if they would help anyone regardless of documentation. I dont want my tax dollars supporting this initiative unless there are controls in place that can be monitored to ensure undocumented persons do not take advantage.
Hi–Look, I think we all have to acknowledge that the BVBL folks are simply anti-immigrant and racist, not “pro legal immigrant” as they sometimes claim. They are using this issue as a create a space where racist, anti-immigrant bashing, and hate crimes are socially acceptable.
Just look at the comments here– NO ONE from the anit-immigrant side wants to talk about the issue you’ve raised here: that this is a program for LEGAL immigrants. They want to shift the focus, pretending that anything that might help a LEGAL immigrant may actually be used to help someone who is here without authorization. The same nonsense was spewed on Leteicq’s site earlier this week when there was discussion of updating short-term work visas.
The problem here, like the comment from Elvis above, is that this group of people has no interest in knowing or understanding the laws. They whine for “controls” and “monitors” that already exist because they want to hurt immigrants in general.
Censored, I did not see the comments, but I’ve seen comments before.Some are completely unacceptable. I have to agree with Rick Bentley, there is a boiling anger in good, kind people who don’t like how their communities have changed.
You are so right about big business sticking it to the little guy! We have to start going after employers that are employing illegal labor. That doesn’t mean that we excuse the guy next door from breaking the law.
If the jobs in one field never go past a certain ceiling, that leaves an individual with the dilemma of looking for another field. How many people start out in low paying jobs and then move on?
I agree with Scott Nolan that all people should be treated respectfully and fairly. Included in respect is expecting each person to abide by the rule of law and allowing them to suffer the consequences of their own decisions. There is no need to be nasty, just firm.
Marie, the situation that illegal immigrants have put themselves in is very sad. It is heartbreaking. I’m sorry that they made the decisions they did. However, deliberately enforcing laws is not inhumane. If the laws are not enforced, illegal immigration will never stop. We must have expectations of legal behavior, not acceptance of disrespect for our culture and sovereignty.
I think History will look back on this time proudly and see that the majority of Americans stood firm and didn’t give in to a self-serving minority.
Sara, if you shake BVBL from your thoughts, it might be easier to read with a more open mind.
Diginidad,
I agree that the situation with undocumented immigrants is sad. Yes, they made the decision to come while the federal government turned its head. What is inhumane is to have NO immigration policy, to want to enforce laws that have not been enforced in years, to ignore that fact that the borders are open and then to want to do horrible things to those who cross. For years undocumented immigrants were allowed to cross, work as a migrant workers in back breaking hot weather to pick our crops. After 3 months they got papers. Take a trip to the San Fernando Valley in California and you will never eat a strawberry or a salad again without the image of migrant workers picking our crops. They have terrible working conditions, live in deplorable quarters and get paid very little so we “Americans” can reap the benefit. Many of them are without papers. Our government set this all up. Now we must do something humane to deal with this and resolve issue and deportation will never work, nor do we have the money to do it.
It seemed to be a non issue while our big beautiful homes were being built, our roads were being built, our concrete poured, our houses cleaned, our lawns mowed and our yards landscaped. This issue did not occur overnight. It has been a process and there needs to be a humane and fair process to resolve this issue.
The IRS and Social Security Administration have reported that billions upon billions of dollars have been paid in federal tax, FICA and Medicare tax. In addition, state taxes have been paid, sales tax, real estate tax and on and on. The people who have paid deserve to receive documents. I do not promote amnesty but if someone has been law abiding (remember crossing the border is a civil not a criminal offense), paying taxes and being a good resident then I say let them stay. They are contributing.
Most of the immigrants I know, both legal and undocumented, love this country and they want to be citizens. They want to make contributions. Mostly they want a better life for their children. Who can fault them for that? Don’t we all want better lives for our children?
This is a complicated issue at best but no useful purpose is served by the right-wing xenophobes have too often presented themselves as mainstream defenders of the American way of life. They do all they can to divide and to polarize.
Censored bybvbl, 1. June 2008, 9:44
Good Post, Censored
It’s sad that the Anti-Immigrant haters and the political opportunists who exploit them have now merged into one.
It’s sad that some of these people feel they cannot effectively argue their position as white males, so they pretend to be immigrants when they post here anonymously.
But I’m most disappointed that the sheep and the political opportunists who believed this was “THE ISSUE THIS YEAR” have been proven wrong, and yet they still cling to the hate.
Don’t you get it people, hate is only necessary if this is your election issue. It’s not your election issue anymore. So why indulge in and apologize for hate. What good does it do you at this point?
Dignidad: I was responding to the posts here, not on BVBL. And while I know that the BVBL folks are among the worst of lot, sadly, they are not the only perpetrators promoting anti-immigrant hate.
I also have to add, that, as an expert in this field, most people who “are strongly opposed to undocumented immigration,” are also poorly informed about why the undocumented are here. The undocumented issue is one that our country has created, it benefits American citizens economically tremendously, and to turn on immigrants after we’ve reaped the benefits of their labor, most of which has been highly exploitive, is beyond comprehension.
Immigration laws have have not always been enforced at a level that was sufficient, but illegals have always known that they were sneaking in. We didn’t just start having raids, they’ve been happening all along. They have increased since the massive protests of 2006. It is the height of arrogance to sneak into another country and be indignant when you are expected to follow the laws and respect cultural norms.
As for working conditions, this is exacerbated by the presence of easy illegal labor. If the cycle of illegal immigration doesn’t end, the working conditions in the fields may never improve. I think that the only amnesty that should be granted is to illegal workers who turn in their employers,who would then be financially responsible for them until they are naturalized. If the employers start having real consequences for their greed, cheap labor will stop being so cheap.
WhyHereWhyNow, do you have special powers that allows you to see when someone is pretending to be an immigrant? Sounds like stereotyping and rejection of diversity of thought.
Every time I watch a DVD movie I see the same FBI Warning about imprisonment and fines for copying, yet I don’t know if the law has ever been enforced. Does that mean the law is null and void? How about all the other laws that are on the books which don’t get enforced on a regular basis? If you’re going to single out the non-enforcement of the immigration law, then how about starting a campaign dealing with ALL the un-enforced laws. At least this would give your lawyers something to do while they’re waiting for a profiling case.
Sara,
You hit the nail on the head. I do not understand the lack of understanding regarding this issue. You said in a few short words what I wanted to convey in my earlier post.
Dignidad
There are employers who have sponsored undocumented workers, are willing to pay them good wages, provide health care and be financially responsible but the damn system does not work. Why do people have to wait 10-15 and 20 years? This system has to be fixed and fixed soon.
Did I miss something?
To get U.S citizenship you need to have a green card first for at least five years. If you are here illegally, there is no way you can get U.S. citizenship. The lead of the story is very clear about helping “eligible area immigrants obtain U.S. citizenship”.
Second Alamo
I am sure that you have broken the law at one time or another and have gotten away with it. Ever speed? We all sin and fall short but there is a thing call FOREGIVENESS. Do you know what that word means?????? Just in case you do not this is how Websters defines sin.
sin (sin)
noun
1. an offense against God, religion, or good morals
2. the condition of being guilty of continued offense against God, religion, or good morals
3. an offense against any law, standard, code, etc.
TH,
I was referring to the comment section in the post. Take a look and then come back and tell us what your thoughts are!
Great post Sara, thanks!!!!
It’s articles like this that expose the real agenda of nativists. Even them most prominent organizations are clear that they support less legal migration, too. How can you be in favor of legal migration, as the “anti-illegal” crowd often says, and not stand up against this hate. Good post.
The first paragraph in the Post article states:
Immigrant advocates and officials from Maryland and Virginia said yesterday that they will seek $15 million to help tens of thousands of eligible area immigrants obtain U.S. citizenship.
However, the respondents seem to be unable to read and understand the word “eligible” so they spew their usual vitriol. Frankly, I’d rather see the hardworking eligible immigrants become voting citizens and see the WaPo respondents go back under their rocks. IMO our society is bettered by having more of the former and fewer of the latter.
Controlling business in a republic such as ours is always a delicate balancing act. When we start controlling business, there is always someone out there hollering socialism. If you let business run unfettored, then greed, being the human condition, rears its ugly head.
The little guys, us, are the ones caught in the middle. Jobs are outsourced to pay lower wages, companies move off-shore to avoid taxes, undocumented workers are hired to save a buck or 2, Are these really areas we have much control over? Who can control it other than the government? When we say ‘let’s go after company X,’ what do we really mean?
Marie, 1. June 2008, 12:24
I totally agree Marie! It’s fine and well when the cheap labor is to your benefit, but when it becomes apparent that these “illegals”, that helped build us out of an impending recession, have the nerve to want to stay, now suddenly they are an abomination and we have no further need for them. Can someone please tell me, when anytime in the history of mankind, there has ever been justification to scapegoat one group for the good of the majority? Sara’s post was right on target, our immigration system is broken, not because we want to give anmesty to people who had the umitigated gall to come here for work, that we needed them for, but because we need still the labor force! We are becoming a nation of consumers and that is NOT a healthy place to be for the greatest nation in the world.
Sara,
I like your blog, but it took too much time to post so I will have to visit another time.
Censored bybvbl, 1. June 2008, 15:25
I agree totally with that sentiment 🙂
kyledeb, 1. June 2008, 15:14
Welcome kyledeb!
So, tell me how a proposed “pathway to citizenship” works…how do we determine who has been here long enough to qualify? There are literally hundreds of illegal or undocumented people in Prince William that work as day laborers, so they won’t have tax returns or property tax paperwork to demonstrate their residency here so exactly, how do we determine who is qualified for the amnesty or pathway? If we can’t (as Marie says, deport 12 million people, how do we classify, research and determine the eligibility status of 12 million people? How do we seal the borders on the day we pass the legislation to prevent throngs of immigrants from rushing in to America to take advantage of any legistation? Its easy to dismiss one side and propose grandiose plans or ideas of grandeur but when the plan has to be implemented, what has anyone heard from the proponets of this side?
Hey Marie, perhaps the next time I’m stopped for speeding or driving without a license (examples only) I’ll just ask for forgiveness as you suggest. Yeah, Right! The courts must hand out some form of punishment for breaking our law. Forgiveness isn’t one of them.
BTW, would these centers only support Latino’s? Based on the supporting organizations I would have a hard time believing they have any other ethnic group’s interest at heart. Why do you think they need more centers? If they want to help then they should be under the control of the INS not CASA or such.
Moon-howler, the federal government may be the only means of regulating some industries and I don’t know how successful it can be since many multi-national companies can just choose to leave the US. If we look at the situation realistically, we (the US) may need to form a union with Canada and Mexico (and perhaps other countries) in order to compete internationally. That probably won’t bode well for wages here, at least initially. (We little people will just have to vote with our pocketbooks in many instances.)
I think in order to secure our borders, we’ll really have to look at what measures we would take if we were at war and be willing to fund the technology or cost that’s neccessary and that would still allow neccessary movement of goods and people. (Don’t expect much from the feds. Hurricane Katrina showed how worthless our response system was/is. And don’t expect much from the anti-immigration crowd which is generally the low tax crowd as well. They will probably be unwilling to pay more to see border control done. The pot of money – ha -that sits in the PWC treasury for their purpose is pitiful indeed.)
Lucky Duck, perhaps visas would be necessary for the day-labors until their experience/work history could be tallied. Some means of identification should be used. How would you suggest securing the borders?
SA,
Being that latino’s are the immigrant group being targeted for so many eroneous accusations, wouldn’t it be prudent to ensure they are not at risk for wrongful imprisonment? Having said that, I would agree that ALL immigrants, should have the same opportunities to become citizens, not just lantino immigrants. I agree with your premise, we should ensure that ALL legal residents are welcome at these centers.
Thank you Marie for your comments. Its a learning experience to read what you have to say…and the kind and loving way that you say it!!!!
Hey second Alamo……you left off those mattress tags…….watch out people who have removed the tags from their mattresses..federal offense…..you might do time, or better yet get deported..And when you do if you do, dont look under the bed………Leiecq may be under your bed!!!! listening hohoho come to think of it…….there’s some laws still on the Virginia books about bedtime activities……..even if you are married……..this would be a great thing for Stewart and Letiecq to go after!! you go guys!!!!!!!
LuckyDuck, Day laborers are the tiniest sliver of the illegal immigrant population. The vast majority of illegal immigrants have steady work and some kind of paper trail. They wouldn’t be contributing $7 billion a year to the SSA coffers if they didn’t.
So it seems a bit odd to suggest that the problems documenting the residency of day laborers should be the dealbreaker for a policy affecting the overwhelming remainder of illegal immigrants. We might also want to consider the fact that around 45 % of illegal immigrants actually entered the United States on tourist, student, worker, and other visas and then fell out of status. So there is likely to be documentation for millions that is the most official possible. All the non-border crossers seem to be invisible to the anti-illegal immigrant crowd, even though in this area they are everywhere.
Also a “path to citizenship” is just that, a path. It can start whereever one chooses it to start and doesn’t involve a move from illegal status to citizenship without some intermediate status. One approach geared to fairness might be to expedite the immigration of all the people who have been following legal channels, eg. the thousands of foreign fiancees etc. Then for the illegal population, developing a comprehensive guest worker program that is less cumbersome than the extremely limited we have now but with safeguards for both American workers and the undocumented population.
In terms of the issue of securing the border against a new flood if such a policy shift occurred, I would agree that is a valid point. Except for one thing: There is not a realistic proposal to secure the border at the moment. Even assuming that DHS is able to block lawsuits based on property rights, environmental damage, and American Indian rights, the border fence now proposed covers less than half of the near 2,000-mile boundary. The fence is a total charade. There is no money or manpower to effectively police the limited fencing that would be built and no end of the incentives to breach the barriers that would exist. So your question applies as much now as if a hypothetical “path” were implemented.
Gregg Reynolds is at it again. His hate and disdain for Greg Letique is both pathetic and shameful as it reflects on his sick and convoluted state of mind. Its true, but if G.L. were not in the picture, Reynolds would not have a life. Greg Letique is an honest and honorable man and has done a great service for PW county despite the likes of Reynolds and people like him. Mr. Letique does not deserve the constant hateful barage that is slung at him by Reynolds. Mr. Reynolds must be a miserable person who is obsessed and consumed with the poison of hate. Get over your hate, Mr. Reynolds, and get a life.
maribel, am I missing something? Is Kenneth Reynolds really Gregg Reynolds, or was that a Freudian slip or hallucination from consuming some poison yourself? Hard to tell. I note you profess a deep admiration for Greg Letiecq, yet you spell his name wrong three times. Name the substance, I’m curious.
Sara, it seems like every comment against illegals is taken as anti-immigrant and racist. That’s a very effective tactic because as a nation we’ve successfully spent the last several decades teaching and promoting racial and cultural tolerance. Nobody wants to be perceived as racist. The bad habit of making accusations of the heart rather than arguing the point is indicative of a weak argument. As an expert in the field, I would think you would have a more substantial argument.
On this issue I just don’t think my tax dollars should go towards this.
Leila, yes, day laborers are a tiny slice of the pie, I was using them as one of many examples of issues that have to addressed. Your post has some good and interesting commnets. Your comment of the vast majority of illegal immigrants being hard working brings up another issue. What paperwork are they using for employment? What do you do with all the illegal immigrants who have used someone else’s SSN or Identity? Obviously this is a cirminal event (understanding that illegal border crossing is a civil offense) and must be addressed. Are these people to be considered inelgible for any pathway because of the misery they have caused innocent American citizens? Lots of questions…too little answers.
I don’t think that any border solution can be done without the military…unless the Border Patrol is infused with millions of dollars.
Leila said:
“Also a “path to citizenship” is just that, a path. It can start whereever one chooses it to start and doesn’t involve a move from illegal status to citizenship without some intermediate status. One approach geared to fairness might be to expedite the immigration of all the people who have been following legal channels, eg. the thousands of foreign fiancees etc.”
I agree with you Leila. Now this is something that a lot of the amnesty advocates overlook. My wife came here on a fiancee visa and it took us a long time and a lot of money. I can tell you this – she and others like her resent the idea of people who didn’t wait their fair turn and want to just be granted amnesty. We would have loved it if we didn’t have to wait the 2 years for her to come here. The only amnesty I would support would be where there was a very lengthy (at least 5 years) path to citizenship. After all, that is what my wife has to endure, so why should someone else who has been here illegally get better treatment?
The downside of speeding up the process for current legal immigration (which I agree it would be nice to see it speeded up) – where is the money going to come from to do this? I don’t see it happening without a huge injection of money and a complete revamp of the whole USCIS system. I’ve said this in other threads – the current system is largely paper driven and not highly computerized and things get lost all the time (happened in my wife’s case and caused us to have to completely refile – along with paying fees all over again as well as wasted time). I do personally think they need to get their act together and get their system to the 2000’s, instead of using their current 1980’s technology. I just wonder where it will come from.
Anyway, for me personally – I wouldn’t support any amnesty unless those who are currently in line waiting get priority treatment and the “path to citizenship” is at least as long if not longer than current legal immigrants have to endure. And I’ll tell you this – my wife and friends of hers who have come legally – highly resent illegal immigrants all of the sudden wanting legal status – who did not wait their turn in line. I know others will say they endured much hardship coming to the USA by being smuggled in, etc., but it does an injustice to the many millions like my wife who came here the legal way and had to endure lengthy waits, FBI checks, interviews at the USA consulate in China, etc. etc. In FACT, for someone from China to come here on a tourist VISA, it is an unbelievable amount of work to get one, because the USA wants to be sure they won’t intentionally stay here after the tourist VISA expires. In fact, it is very very difficult to get a USA tourist VISA for a Chinese citizen. And I can guarantee that it is all because of illegal immigrants overstaying tourist VISAs. Again, many legal immigrants are mighty unhappy with the talk of amnesty, when because of all the illegal immigration – they have problems even being able to get family members over here on a tourist VISA for a short visit.
Leila,
Great post! ICAM.
LuckyDuck, the military is busy. Good luck when even members of Guard and Reserve units are mobilized for repeat tours in an unwinnable war. It just makes my point, the border is not going to be secured. The solution has to come some other way.
Some of the fake SSNs are made up, some are stolen, some are from dead people. In all cases, there can be damage. I would guess that such identity theft is as rampant among other groups, from organized crime to your basic American teenager. Try googling around a bit regarding fake IDs. In any case, I agree with you that using a fake SS# is an abuse, although personally I understand the crime more when it is done to gain employment for survival and not because you can’t wait a couple of years to indulge in the Jello shot promo down the street. But again, this is one reason to try to offer a legal alternative, ie. a guest worker program that would involve specially created ID numbers that would intentionally not duplicate current SS numbers. I don’t think it would be pragmatic to make this a reason (absent other sorts of criminal activity) to deny people a path. Every form of forgiveness has its costs, eg. the amnesty for Vietnam-era draft evaders. Should we not have reconciled with those Americans because it was unfair to vets? Also, for the sake of argument, what draconian punishment would you advise for mommy and daddy’s little darlings when they do the precise same thing for the sake of a buzz? Identity theft is no joke. I am not minimizing it. But one way out of the mass abuse of SS numbers is to create an alternative.
LuckyDuck, the military is busy.
Regarding illegal immigrants, some of the fake SSNs are made up, some are stolen, some are from dead people. In all cases, there can be damage. I would guess that such identity theft is as rampant among other groups, from organized crime to your basic American teenager. Try googling around a bit regarding fake IDs. In any case, I agree with you that using a fake SS# is an abuse, although personally I understand the crime more when it is done to gain employment for survival and not because you can’t wait a couple of years to indulge in the Jello shot promo down the street. But again, this is one reason to try to offer a legal alternative, ie. a guest worker program that would involve specially created ID numbers that would intentionally not duplicate current SS numbers. I don’t think it would be pragmatic to make this a reason (absent other sorts of criminal activity) to deny people a path. Every form of forgiveness has its costs, eg. the amnesty for Vietnam-era draft evaders. Should we not have reconciled with those Americans because it was unfair to vets? Also, for the sake of argument, what draconian punishment would you advise for mommy and daddy’s little darlings when they do the precise same thing for the sake of a buzz? Identity theft is no joke. I am not minimizing it. But one way out of the mass abuse of SS numbers is to create an alternative.
My apologies for the double post. Was having connection problems.
Admin, I tried to post regarding a series on the new sanctuary movement published by the Washington Times, but it doesn’t seem that my comment will show up. If it is being held because of my duplicating hiccup above, I petition 😉 for its release because I think people would really be interested in the articles. Or I can try altering the comment and reposting if you prefer.
My own view is that I am aligned with Anon@19:34 in that I feel it is an injustice to grant amnesty to those currently here illegally over those who are waiting out the immigration system to come here the legal way. If we need the labor (and we do) then we should make it as easy as possible for those to come here to work, but not necessarily for a pathway to citizenship WITHOUT consideration for those waiting for the process to complete their applications, not to mention those in other countries that do not share a common land border with us and wait for a lottery visa. That is how my family came here. No special consideration for those who came here illegally over those currently in the process.
We disagree on the use of ID theft by illegal immigrants. If YOU were a victim and had to go through the misery of straightening out your credit or life after someone used your identity, I am confident you would not minimize the act for any reason. I think this act should preclude an illegal immigrant from any work visa and pathway to citizenship.
By the way, regarding the military, do we really need all of those troops in Germany and Japan? The cold war is well over and those nations are our staunch allies.