72 Thoughts to “Deane’s ‘Illegal Immigration’ Update”

  1. Anon-100
    June 4, 2008 at 9:38 pm

    The police have built in trainning days, I believe they are once a month. So who ever did the cost analysis is wrong. They would be in trainning for something, so now they are using it to inform them of the new general order.

  2. anon
    June 4, 2008 at 9:48 pm

    Emma – up in Reston at 3 PM we were told a funnel cloud was spotted in Herndon, and we were made to go down to the basement of our building and had to stay there until 3:45 PM.In fact the view out of my office right before 3 PM – it looked like nighttime out there – I never saw it so dark looking in the middle of the aftgernoon. During that time the power went down in our building a few times, and unfortunately took down a lab setup I’m partially responsible for. I still have my work cut out for me tomorrow morning in trying to resuscitate the thing (no one wants to cough up the money for an uninterruptible power supply system unfortunately – even though this is a pretty expensive and critical test setup for an in-production system used by our military). Actually, the whole event was no piece of fun since I’ve got a huge critical test event starting next Monday.

    But anyway, I was glad that funnel cloud at least didn’t get that close to our building. However, on the way home from work, it seemed Centreville was somewhat hard hit – the movie theater’s sign was totally destroyed and pieces were near the side of the road, and down Old Centreville Road/Ordway Drive one tree had fallen over and was partially sticking into the road. Further down I saw people standing in front of a house where a tree had split in half and of course the top half was all over their lawn – with about a 6 foot stump left in the ground!

    I too hope everyone on this board was safe during the storm. I really never saw it so bad as what it looked like right around 3 PM when we were told to evacuate to the basement of our building!

  3. NoOneInParticular
    June 4, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    Lucky Duck said:

    No one in Particular…you whole theory has a very large hole in it…if you are detained by the Magistrate for ANY reason you have a mandatory court appearance the next morning at 8:30 AM.

    Thanks for the info Lucky. I was just posting what I was told by the Officer that I spoke to. Perhaps I’ll try to reach him again and give him your information so that he doesn’t misinform another citizen who dares to ask ‘what is the law’. Although I fear he will try to get my name again and then hang up when I refuse to make myself easy prey. I would recommend that you call the police station and inform them of the law, since it’s obvious someone needs to educate them. Good luck…and I suggest you use a cell phone, as a land line will tell them exactly who you are.

    What disturbs me about my exchange with the Officer is that I was only asking questions and he just hung up. Lucky Duck why do you think he hung up??? I was paraphrasing what he said to me and speaking it back to him throughout our conversation so that there would be no misunderstanding. I wanted him to understand what I had heard.

    I believe officers, as public servants are required to tell you their badge numbers. He refused. Isn’t that kind of abusive? Since when is it wrong to call up the police station and ask what the lawful behavior is?

    I can only imagine what might have happened if I had been videotaping him as he detained someone who might be an immigrant.

    Perhaps this would have been my fate:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KNTKjnymZg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNiZrcAVLHo&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMDW4Fszj2U&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFH0M6LpbPc&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIi2z9I0SRE&NR=1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6TFdjVpmU8&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daYBjfvEjfQ&NR=1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDuuo0k9xXw&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IObSc3mGWw&feature=related

    I would like to suggest to everyone here, that one of the things we can do to protect immigrants is to always carry a video camera device in our cars or on our persons. Most cell phones can do this nowadays. Anytime what looks like an arrest of an immigrant is taking place, please stop and videotape the incident. I especially recommend this to everyone here who has been raised to believe that police are perennially our protectors and only a few ever violate our rights. You believe this because you want to believe it, as I once did. Only when you are at the mercy of abusive police, who are bringing down the whole power of the state onto your powerless head, will you understand that we may need the police but they should be seen as a necessary evil and the only check to their abuse is our willingness to defend our rights. Individual officers may be wonderful people, but the institution itself is inherently a threat to your freedom as so many minorities like me have unhappily come to find out the hard way.

    All you need to do is pick up a video camera. You are within your rights so long as you do not interfere with the arrest. However, be prepared to deal with police harassment. They might accuse you of interfering with an arrest and threaten to arrest you.

  4. NoOneInParticular
    June 4, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    For those who want to see a preview of the future in our little county and our sacred country, here are some links of what I consider to be a true patriot. His responses to comments on his videos are of a very high educational value as to our rights. Here are some of my favorites among his efforts to keep us informed and aware of our rights:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRk3awO1Jq0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6uw7506xMw&NR=1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKDdH8xtpN4

    Here is his youtube channel and web site:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/CheckpointUSA
    https://www.checkpointusa.org/

    A country HAS laws, a country HAS borders, a country HAS natural resources…but a country IS none of those things. Just as an individual HAS physical characteristics, an individual HAS possessions, and an individual HAS mental faculties. But an individual IS none of those things. An individual IS who they choose to be, they are who they are inside, they ARE what they hold sacred.

    And as such, I believe a country IS us…just us and nothing else. The guys with badges are just here to help us but they are the least of us. If We the People forget who we are, the country is lost.

  5. WhyHereWhyNow
    June 4, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    Anon, from reading your posts, it sounds as if you understandably began to associate “illegal immigration” with the neighborhood issues you were facing, perhaps because the ethnic shading of the immigration issue matches the ethnicity you those neighbors you associate with littering, overcrowded houses, etc.

    Many years ago I was held up at gun point for $40 dollars. That night I told my father about it. He asked me if the mugger was Black. I felt uncomfortable answering because he was indeed African American, and, the television sets, newspapers, and many of the politicians in those days were always telling us about “crime” was a problem and we had to “crack down” on criminals and such. In that era, it was quite clear, although rarely openly stated, that “crime” was a code word for Black. Politicians so often exploited incidents of crime to create the public misconception that “crime” and “Black” were the same constructs to the degree that “I’m tough on crime” became code for “I’ll protect White people from Black people.”

    To this day, I’m not certain whether it was true or not true that Black people moving to our neighborhoods were more likely to be criminals. (We also heard they were using our social services by the way). What I do know is that a lot of politicians got themselves elected, and the process put a wedge between otherwise good people, including me and my father.

    So, years later, when Jackson Miller, then a Manassas city council member, started making a big deal about this “overcrowding” issue a few years ago, it was very easy to see that he was trying to conflate the constructs of “overcrowding” and “Hispanic.” Soon after, Greg Letiecq became his blogger and hatchet man, and I began to get the same feeling I had when my father so innocently assumed there was a connection between my run-in with a mugger and “the problem with Blacks.” I cringed as Greg’s website helped put Jackson Miller in our State legislature, with vicious and libelous attacks against capable moderate Republicans who dared to run against him in the primary.

    During the same period, support for the Iraq War started to wane (including my own). I saw more and more politicians toss Iraq and terrorism aside and turn to the “the problem with illegals” as the new high-voltage campaign issue. Suddenly Jackson Miller and Greg Letiecq had friends in high places. The same kind of sentiment became part of the state Republican party platform. The same sentiment was on cable news and in the local newspapers every day. And Greg’s blog became a disgusting bathroom wall on which all the most vile racist remarks could be posted, but anyone who disagreed was censored.

    So, during the same period in which you sadly watched your neighborhood deteriorate, I sadly watched friends, neighbors, and family members become consumed with hate … without the benefit of a single broken bottle or even any interaction what-so-ever with a person who looked Hispanic let alone illegal … all because of the rhetoric they were hearing on the TV’s and on talk radio.

    As good people become hateful, they lose touch with the goodness in their hearts. They lose touch with their souls.

    Of course it’s annoying and disappointing when this happens to elected officials … especially since mind set this rarely leads to good governing. But what is truly sad and truly remarkable is that the scapegoating was promoted as a way to address the real and actual neighborhood issues, when really, scapegoating is merely a way to encourage people to point fingers, to express their frustrations in hateful ways, and of course to vote a certain way.

    When politics and partisanship began to drive the agenda, when hate was spread on campaign mailers and in campaign speeches and through the media as part of campaign strategies, many of the arm chair partisans in my life were simply following the lead of the professional partisans. “I want to crack down on illegals because that’s the issue for Republicans and I’m a Republican” was the basic idea. But many of them took it too far, and took on the anti-immigrant mantle with gusto, even relish, and they internalized it to the point that they now have trouble letting go.

    A lot of us watched this happen and didn’t speak up. In part because there was an election coming up, and in part because we’d been wrongly convinced it was a fight that didn’t involve us. Now I realize that was just a tactic … to tell the silent majority to shut up and stay silent because this is an issue between angry white people and the Hispanics, and if you say anything to contradict the angry white people you’re a traitor to your party and an apologist for illegal behavior.

    Now, we come to find out that this plan we imported from DC lobbyists to frighten the immigrant population out of Prince William County did more than empty “flop houses,” it also emptied stores and restaurants, retail sales coffers, real estate coffers, etc. It crippled our local economy just when we could least afford it. It crippled our housing market just when we could least afford it. And it earned us a reputation for ethnic and political fighting that will impact our economic and real estate prospects, one that we will not live down for a generation.

    Now I realize, a few months too late, that this issue DID and DOES affect me, even if I don’t see people who look “illegal” every day, or ever. I do have a right to speak out about it because the economy affects me. The housing market affects me. The effectiveness of our police force affects me.

    This community, our county government, and our police force belongs to everyone, not just the angry ones.

  6. Moon-howler
    June 4, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    Rick Bentley,

    An HOA can do something about parking, grass, trash and discarded furniture. It doesn’t look like Point of Woods is even trying to solve this problem. A relative of mine lives in a townhouse community in the in the western end. Those folks will fine you for a dog off a leash, not picking up after said dog, tow your car for the slightest violation, and the list goes on. I always thought they were townhouse nazis. However, they also don’t have the problems in there that I see at a lot of other townhouse communities.

    Now they are laming on mowing. This HOA takes care of all the mowing as part of the homeowners fees. They are not mowing abandoned houses. I filed a complaint with PCE. I don’t know who will end up being responsible for doing it but I do think it will get done.

  7. NoOneInParticular
    June 5, 2008 at 12:15 am

    WhyHereWhyNow,

    I enjoyed your post. it was very informative. I too had a limited view of the illegal immigration question until I began to do some research. It’s funny how few pertinent facts are actually presented in the media. Sensational stories about crime committed by illegals or actions taken against illegals get lots of airtime though.

    At first, I thought that we just needed to enforce the law. Now I’ve come to realize that the immigration system we have is completely out of touch with the laws of supply and demand when it comes to our economy’s need for labor. The current immigration system encourages illegal immigration as opposed to legal immigration. Because the only way in is illegally, some of the people who cross will be criminals, or carry diseases, etc. The people fighting for immigrants can’t ignore these facts. The current system is bad for both americans and the immigrants. There are valid grievances on both sides and the only real solution is a realistic immigration system that gives people visas who want to come here for work. Once, the immigrants are legal, they can fight for higher wages and better benefits in their respective industries.

    It’s a tragedy how people on both sides of the issue are being treated, and I hold both parties responsible. The republican party is particularly reprehensible though. They’re going to leave deep scars on our national psyche over this issue. It’s truly disgusting to think about what they are doing. It’s all about creating bigotry for them. It’s not necessarily racism, it’s not really based on race, although hispanics are the biggest targets. It’s based on bigotry which is a little broader. They say ‘those people are foreigners, they speak a different language, they’re invading, they’re stealing tax dollars, how dare they send money home to their poor families?’

    I honestly believe the republican party would be doing the same thing and they might get equivalent results if all these foreigners came from a largely caucasian country where customs were different and people spoke a different language. The race aspect adds fuel to the fire but I think its the ‘foreignness’ of the immigrants that is being exploited by republicans.

  8. Elena
    June 5, 2008 at 12:26 am

    I want to share that I have truly appreciated the exchange between Anon and Whyherewhynow. If we can build more coalitions like this, we can figure out ways to solve any problem!

    Cindy B,
    You always have such interesting info to share! What a great opportunity to discuss immigration issues via George Mason.

    On a side note, I was driving to pick up my son at his school in Marshall, just as the storm was plowing through. VERY scary, I was praying that a tree wouldn’t fall on us or a strong wind blow us off the road. At one point, a lightening bolt struck a power line right in front of my car and sparks went flying like it was 4th of july fireworks. Needless to say, when I finally arrived at my sons school, having dodge downed tree limbs, I ran in with my daughter to safety and stayed until the storm had passed.

  9. Elena
    June 5, 2008 at 12:27 am

    Welcome NoOneInParticular 🙂

  10. LuckyDuck
    June 5, 2008 at 6:32 am

    Anon 100…Yes, there are built in training days, but only one section of the department (Patrol) has those and the other two division do not. In addition, those training days which were used were paid at full salary for the officers to be trained on immigration policy.

  11. anon
    June 5, 2008 at 6:47 am

    WhyHereWhyNow: Thanks for the interesting post regarding Jackson Miller, as well as your story about the mugging and labels applied to Black people, etc. Actually, I’m rather embarrassed being a city resident that the name Jackson Miller is not familiar to me! I will say other than for trying to address overcrowding issues in the past 3 years. My interaction with the city government has been limited, and only in the past few months when I’ve escalated the trash problems down by the park – have I really been able to name all the city council members by name! Again, as I said my entry into this whole “immigration debate” has really been very late – in the past few months. Just the same I’m still a bit embarrassed I didn’t know Jackson Miller was one of the city council members! I know he is not a current member of the council, so I guess during an election his council position was replaced (again, I’m showing my non-involvement in local city politics)! In fact, I would only say I became aware of the name “Greg Letiecq” probably sometime last fall – I’d peg it at September/October timeframe roughly.

    Anyway, I appreciate the info in your latest post as it helps of course to know the facts behind how we got to where we are now in the local immigration debate, both within the city of Manassas and in Prince William County in general.

    I will say that I am frustrated now at the city’s lack of response to overcrowding issues. In fact, before they redefined family, they had the overcrowding hotline and at that time it seemed most successful – at least as far as the townhouse next to me. In fact, for the brief time that redefinition of “family” was in place – I didn’t make use of the hotline as that was one of the short month or two periods when that house was vacated – after one of my earlier complaints. As I’ve said – that house would vacate each time the city cited them as being overcrowded, and then fill back up 2 or 3 months later. So it was in a “vacated” period that the family definition was in place, thanks to an earlier effort of mine. But then, once it filled up again, in the wake of the lawsuits and so on – since then I’ve really been highly unsuccessful at getting the city to do anything about it. And you can believe I really took them to task when I personally suffered the consequences – when at least one of the occupants broke into my house.

    I haven’t said this before anywhere here – but I actually was never “anonymous” when I complained to the city about the overcrowding of that house – I freely gave them my name and address to lend a sense of urgency to the problem – given that I was directly next to that townhouse – and not some “anonymous” person down the street complaining about it. I have a bit of a theory that at some point, the city may have shared with the residents of this house the fact that I was complaining about it – and it is quite possible the break-in and theft was some kind of act of revenge. I have no facts to base it on, only my suspicions, and I may be wrong. However, the fact that they took revenge on the neighbor across the street who happened to see several people carrying items running, and looked suspicious, and knew one of them as an occupant of the house next to me, kind of is what made me think that the actual break-in and theft in my house was possibly a form of revenge too. That neighbor a week later, and again 2 weeks later after that – has had rocks tossed at his house in the wee hours of the night. It has to be a form of retribution for his calling the police and fingering one former occupant (who has since fled) as one of those involved in the break-in to my house.

    Anyway, as you can see, I’m justifiably angered at the city for them not fixing the overcrowding issues with that house in the time between their redefinition of “family” and the break-in to my house – as I had again reported that house maybe 2 or 3 months after the redefinition was “rescinded”.

    Maybe as you point out – if Jackson Miller/Greg Letiecq hadn’t pushed the city down that path of redefining family – I might not have had these problems. As I said prior to that, I was successful 3 times in getting that house cleared out – although within 2-3 months it would be right back to being overcrowded and I’d have to call the city hotline again! They would unfortuantely treat each time as a brand new case, which frustrated the heck out of me – you would think since the house was still owned by the same person that whole time, it should be one contiguous case, not a bunch of separate cases! Anyway, it shows why I’m very frustrated with the City of Manassas for this, as well as even their inability to address the trash problems at Stonewall Park and Stonewall Road running down to the park as well as the woods between the edge of Point of Woods and the park (which really are part of the park). I suppose that is why I’m kind of glad I’m getting out of the city, I see the government as largely ineffective – at least on issues that concern me. You would think cleaning up trash/debris would be a simple thing to get accomplished – in fact in many ways that angers me more than their lack of addressing the overcrowding issue. At least there – I can somewhat understand they are rather fearful of anymore lawsuits – but trash pickup and keeping the park something you can be proud of – is a non-controversial issue and they won’t even do much about that!

    Anyway, I can see from your post how Jackson Miller/Greg got them into that whole overcrowding debate mess and the lawsuits that ensued – and I may have those two to blame for the problems in the house next to me. As I said in my own experience, I had the most success with the city fixing the overcrowding problems in the townhouse next to me, before they attempted to redefine “family”. My frustration is after that attempt, and the ensuing laswuits – they’ve been very reticent to do anything about an overcrowded residence, and want to have a 6 month investigation, etc. etc. I kind of directed my anger at those who created these lawsuits, but see from your post that it is quite possible I have Jackson Miller/Greg Letiecq to also blame for that whole mess. I think if the city hadn’t tried to redefine family, the overcrowding issues would have been addressed as they had been before – and as I said it seemed at least in my case back then I had some success.

    Somehow, even though back then I was active in calling the city overcrowding hotline, I really wasn’t following the debate in city council apparently – as way back then the names of Jackson Miller, and even Greg Letiecq, were quite unknown to me. As I said, I think I would peg it at September/October that I became aware of Greg – and it was even a lot later than that (just a few months ago) that I discovered BVBL as well as this blog. So you see, I really have come into this debate quite late and still am learning all the history of it.

    I do think overcrowding and the problems it leads to – does seem to be a root cause of much of what is fueling this debate at least locally in this area. Although there is a large anger at illegal immigrants for other things – such as identify theft, taking jobs away from legal residents because of employers being happy to pay below market wages, and so on. But in my own case, overcrowding and the resultant problems in my neighborhood are primarily what brought me into this debate, although identify theft is something that angers me too – even though fortunately up until now, it has not hit me or anyone I know. But being in a job where I need to mantain a nearly spotless credit record due to holding a high level gov’t clearance – I’m very very paranoid about my credit record – so identify theft is something that makes me pretty angry too as I worry constantly it could happen to me, and if so it would utterly ruin my life, forcing me out of my current job most likely. I’ve read too many instances of people losing security clearances due to the unfortunate circumstances of identity theft – so I know it to be a real possibility.

    Anyway, I’m glad we are now having a good debate on this subject, and it is a good exchange as I am definitely learning a lot about the history of the local politics surrounding the debate – which as I freely admit I was quite unaware of and am grateful for all the information you and a few others here have been giving me in response to my posts. Someone else pointed me at the video showing Duecaster when I said I was unaware of who he was (indeed I was until just a few days ago – I had never heard his name even) and that he was the original author of the resolution. That’s why I came on here, to learn, and it seems in the past few days several people like you have indeed responded when I’ve mentioned I was unaware of who a certain person was, or his role in this, and I really appreciate that.

  12. anon
    June 5, 2008 at 6:54 am

    Elena – that storm was indeed very scary. I can’t even imagine what it must have been like to have been driving around in it! As I said, in Reston we were evacuated to the basement of our building, and right before that – looking out from my office window – it looked like nighttime here – pitch black, and I could see large trees bending way over and driving rain! We were evacuated to the basement because a funnel cloud had been spotted over Herndon and the weather service said it was heading on a path toward Reston. I have been too busy to find out if it touched down anywhere. Actually there seemed to be more destruction down around Centreville and even on Liberia just north of Stonewall Road – this morning on the way in I saw a tree down alongside the right side of the road as you head north. Last night there was a tree down on Rt. 28 just south of the movie theater, and also the movie theater’s sign showing the movies playing was ripped to shreds and sitting alongside the road.

    Anyway, sorry to hear you were out driving in that and glad to hear you got through it unscathed. I am sure it had to be a scary experience though – if it was anything like what things looked like here at 3 PM just before we were made to go down to the basement here. Your story of the lightning bolt hitting the power line in front of you – that must have been very terrifying!

  13. Cindy B
    June 5, 2008 at 11:02 am

    anon – ask your Point of Woods HOA reps to call the City’s Neighborhood Services Dept. Last summer they coordinated 700 Week of Hope volunteers doing cleanups — one was in Point of Woods. They’re doing the same thing this summer. The first wave of volunteers (100) arrive June 16 and they work in the area through Aug. 1.

  14. anon
    June 5, 2008 at 11:36 am

    OK Cindy B: thanks again for the info.

  15. kgotthardt
    June 5, 2008 at 8:30 pm

    Holy Smokes, WHWN…that was a great posting! I would like to use it on my own blog if I have your permission to do so.

  16. WhyHereWhyNow
    June 6, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    Kgotthardt, you are welcome to my words any time for use anywhere.

    Anon, thanks for telling us your story. One thought that came to me was that all of the so-called “bad actors” are people living in bad situations who feel they have no other choice. Even Gospel Greg, as much as I make fun of him, has a point when he says the people in these neighborhoods were “forced into it.” There are better solutions of course, such as affordable housing (ghettos) where new immigrants can settle apart from the old time residents. But affordable housing is not a “sexy” issue. Few politicians got elected or reelected with yard signs that said “Providing Affordable Housing.”

    But “Fighting Illegal Immigration” was a slogan that was supposed to last the extremist wing of the GOP through the 2008 season. They tested it out in PWC in 2007 and got mixed results. Then when the policy was put in place, everyone saw what a disaster it is when you put politics before governing, and now the value of immigration electioneering is declining almost as fast as our economy. All of this politicking will end when we have a new President. Whoever wins, he will hopefully have the courage to stand up to the Anti-Immigrant Lobby. By the way, the lobbying firms and hate organizations that swarmed Capitol Hill to defeat McCain’s Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill are the very same bunch who ambushed our local government in Prince William County a year ago almost to the date. Corey Stewart and John Stirrup surprised the other board members by introducing the Immigration Resolution out of the blue and forcing an immediate vote. During the two weeks between the introduction of the resolution and the July 10th vote, Gospel Greg had his groupies writing e-mails up the kazoo, and the other Supervisors were convinced it was a title wave of public sentiment. But of course it would seem that way, because these people had been planning and plotting for months, and they had the guidance of the Washington DC lobbying firm (F.A.I.R.) who had already poisoned the social climates of other unsuspecting local governments around the country. It was months before the silent majority figured out that our government had been stolen away from us by a combination of DC lobbyists and local agitators. It will take us years to recover from the economic destruction they have caused.

    One final point. Identity theft is not a Hispanic crime by any means. It’s an international problem that spreads on the internet and thus is not bound to any national borders. I was watching Dateline on MSNBC last night. It was called “To Catch An Identity Thief.” You should really see this if you are concerned about this.

    There is a different issue that you may be confusing with identity theft, and that is when undocumented workers use someone else’s SS# to fool employers. In those cases, no one’s credit card is charged. The worst thing I can think of is it would create a problem with the IRS, where they think you’ve earned more than you really earned if this happens to you.

  17. WhyHereWhyNow
    June 6, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    Anon, I left another short not for you on the thread with the two Day Laborer videos.

  18. WhyHereWhyNow
    June 6, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    *** short NOTE I mean

  19. Elena
    June 6, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    Anon,
    Did you grow up around here? You said you are Jewish, do you still attend temple? There is a Warrenton Congregation, Faquier Jewish Congregation, really nice group of people, lots of mixed marriages. I didn’t join this year, but plan on re-joining next year for sure!

  20. anon
    June 7, 2008 at 7:55 am

    WhyHereWhyNow: Thanks for pointing me back here from the other thread – as I might have missed your post since this thread seemed to be fading (that is hadn’t had much activity). I certainly agree with you that identity theft is not at all the exclusive domain of the Hispanics. Indeed, it is a huge problem in our society unfortunately, and the perpretators appear to cross all ethnic boundaries, and also there are professional thieves who’s sole purpose is to steal credit card numbers and the like. In fact, somewhere in another thread (I think) I referred to a story about someone who was a patient at Prince William Hospital having their identity stolen by a contract employee at the hospital. I almost want to say that contract employee’s ethnicity was white – but not 100% sure, but I know the name wasn’t a Hispanic name (that person was convicted but got more or less a slap on the wrist, even though they were a prior offender) which is one of the reasons the victim is so rightfully incensed. The prior conviction was overlooked by the company that hired that person and placed them in Prince William Hospital working in the billing office (which is how they came to have access to this patients records and steal their identity and then rack up a huge amount of dollars on credit cards obtained with the victims SSN).

    Anyway, you do make a good point that Hispanics aren’t the only ones engaging in identity theft, and in fact they may not even make up a majority of the “identity thieves”.

    In regards to using someone’s SSN for employment: I think it still could cause problems with income taxes. And if was using someone else’s SSN to gain employment, I’d intentionally make my payroll withholding for state and federal income taxes as close to zero as I could – by claming a huge number of deductions on my paycheck. Then what’s going to happen come tax time for the lawful holder of that SSN? They would owe taxes on that other person’s income. So that’s my problem with it. Now, you could make the case that some people doing this would have proper taxes withheld, and possibly even be overpaying. But there’s got to be some portion of the folks doing this who underpay the taxes on that income.

    And let’s suppose this: The person who is the legal holder of that SSN is in the 25% tax rate (not an unfair assumption). The person who is stealing the SSN is in the 15% tax rate. But their income would really be ADDED to the first person’s income – so really their income should be being taxed at 10% more! Who gets the bill for that? It would seem the legal holder of the SSN.

    So that’s why I have a problem with someone using someone else’s SSN for employment, and NOT for any other form of identity theft.

    At least that’s my thought process on that.

    Thanks again for more of the history of the immigration debate in PWC – again I’m learning a lot of it from your posts – so I appreciate the info you’ve been passing on to me.

  21. anon
    June 7, 2008 at 7:59 am

    Elena – You are correct, I am Jewish. I grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia on the New Jersey side – where there was a huge Jewish population and went to synagogue regularly. Unfortunately moving down here – to Manassas, I really didn’t find much Jewish synagogues nearby and kind of lost my way as far as attending – and it’s been years since I have unfortunately. At times I’ve felt a bit like I’ve lost my Jewish identity living in Manassas – it wasn’t my first choice of where to move to but it was where the job was when I graduated from college.

    Anyway, I did not know of the Warrenton congregation. That may be of interest to me particularly when I move to Gainesville later this year – it would be even closer. So I appreciate that, especially as you refer to them having a lot of mixed marriages, which of course applies to me too. My wife has often asked me about why I don’t attend church, and my response is I hadn’t really found a congregation nearby – there is one down in Woodbridge but I never investigated it much or tried to go there.

    Anyway, that is something I’d definitely be interested in especially once we move to Gainesville – so I appreciate very much you passing that info along.

  22. Elena
    June 7, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    I know how you feel Anon! My husband is not Jewish, more of agnostic I’d say 🙂
    They only have shabbat services one Friday a month, there is a Rabbi and the congregation is definately growing! The congregation meets in an Episcopal Church in Warrenton. They are very friendly and welcoming to all.

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