75 Thoughts to “Last Night – Chairman Stewart on Lou Dobbs”
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Blogroll
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- Bacons' Rebellion Blogspot
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- Blue Virginia
- Citizen Tom
- Counts of Monte Cristo. The
- Derecho, The
- Dixie Pig, The
- My Side of the Fence
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- NARAL Pro-Choice VA Blog
- New Dominion Project
- Nova Common Sense
- NovaTownHall Blog
- One Libertarians's Point of View by Al Alborn
- Pete Candland's Blog
- Potomac Local
- Prince William Muckraker
- PW Conservation Alliance
- PWC Moms
- PWCPolitics.com
- PWCPolitics.com
- Red NoVA
- Shad Plank, The
- She the People
- State of NoVA, the
- The Jeffersoniad
- Townhall
- VEA Daily Reports
- VivianPaige
- WDGolden.com
- You, Me and the Lamp Post
I don’t know why Mexicans without Borders would invite them here.
I don’t know of any human rights that have been violated.
I don’t know why the UN would want to get involved in a little county.
I don’t understand this at all but the time has come for me to say, I have been defeated in DEFENDING my hometown for years.
I STILL think and BELIEVE more and more everyday, that we are only HURTING ourselves by trying to do what the Fed Gov should have been doing all along.
I am more disturbed by this
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1417265
The innocent ( whatever, whatever, whatever you call it) are being punished by tightening up on CIVIL LIBERTIES and I just wonder if this is a concern to anyone because the REAL question is WHY?
Red Dawn, before you react to the video we just saw, please keep in mind that Lou Dobbs style of “journalism” does not include fact checking, or even correcting totally false reporting after the fact. Dobbs went on 60 Minutes to defend his propaganda variety show with laughable results.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/03/60minutes/main2758082.shtml
http://mediamatters.org/items/200705110004
So, before you ask those questions about why, why, why? Perhaps you should be questioning the accuracy of the information in the variety show video posted above. After all, look who they interviewed.
Another humorous gaffe in this astonishing shoddy piece of journalism: the very end. The “reporter” asks the rhetorical question about how’s it been going in PWC since the crackdown. Instead of doing any investigating or … I don’t know, reporting on the matter … she starts a sentence with “Officials say” and then regurgitates the Corey Stewart talking points of the month, all of which are debatable at best.
Whwn,
With RESPECT, I will do this and compromise about Lou Dobbs.(Actually it has already been taking on my own with this very reason why I request this of you)
I am familiar with the post you have made. It is the only one I can find so far BUT I ask you who would you rather I hear my news from? I simply don’t trust the media and the more research I do I find that it is all BIG CORP. supporting what they want us to hear and argue
That is a big problem. After we found ourselves in Iraq because of WMD’s, mushroom clouds and false ties to 9/11, it’s clear we can no longer trust the media without doing our own analysis, which involves an amount of deconstruction. The trail from Judith Miller of the New York Times to Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld would have been difficult for us to detect as citizens. But the chain from the white supremacist John Tanton, to the Pioneer Fund, to FAIR and Numbers USA to Lou Dobbs is quite easy to follow.
So while we don’t know who to trust, per say, we know who NOT to trust, and on the immigration issue you can start with Lou Dobbs and work your way back to the most hateful propagandists of our age.
http://www.alternet.org/story/70489/
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1467.html
Actually I agree with Red Dawn’s comment: Why is the UN wasting time investigating PWC? Then again the UN is an organization that often wastes its time on odd things, and there’s a huge amount of fraud and money problems in that organization. There’s a lot of real genuine human rights violations the UN should be investigating.
It is also interesting that MWB can dictate how the UN deploys its human rights investigators. Then again this is an “unofficial visit” whatever that means – does it mean UN money isn’t being spent? I’m not sure, but I kind of find it interesting that MWB can influence the UN. Now if Mexico’s UN Ambassador had made the request, it might sit a little better with me. MWB making the request, and the UN agreeing to send their investigator on an “unofficial visit” (again I’m not sure I understand if it is so unofficial that no UN dollars are being spent?) – makes me wonder if just any group can come along and get the UN to do things. Again, I find the UN to be a rather wasteful organization at times, and it has been shown there is a lot of corruption and money problems in it. They sort of need to clean their own house, which they’ve been rather unwilling to do.
And it comes back to Red Dawn’s point – why is the UN wasting its time in PWC when there’s lots more severe human rights violations elsewhere (people being physically harmed, killed, and so on – even in China for example which is rife with human rights violations – not to mention all kinds of other places worldwide). PWC is kind of “low on the list” even if you say there are human rights violations here – you can’t compare them to places where people are routinely physically tortured, killed, and so on.
This is really a case of the UN interfering in LOCAL GOVERNMENT policy. Not even US policy, which would be more their jurisdiction.
And it will be interesting to read any report that comes out of this, if indeed he makes a report. I’m sure if he does, its a given fact he’ll find human rights violations here – as I kind of think he has an agenda and he’ll find violations whether they exist or not. Corey made a good point – this investigator’s task is to look worldwide for human rights investigations, and his time would be better spent traveling to one of the many places where people are tortured, killed, etc. than here in PWC. And I still resent the UN attempting to interfere with local gov’t policy. Unless that local gov’t policy resulted in people being tortured and killed – but in that case I would expect the USA fed gov’t to step in first, long before the UN got there.
WHWN – definitely agree about not trusting what the media says. Quite often the media has an agenda, and sometimes it is easier to discern whereas other times it is more hidden. I haven’t made up my mind on Lou Dobbs, but it doesn’t take away from the problem I have with this whole UN “unofficial” visit thing.
I am glad the UN dude (what’s his name?) is making an appearance. Why? Perhaps it will keep this county from believing the world is not watching, that they are FROWNING on, not APPLAUDING us for the climate of fear created here by addressing the problem in a politically driven and in some cases hateful way instead of in a responsible manner.
Look, this guy is Mexican/American. We’re not talking about a month-long journey to some hoity-toity capital. It’s Prince William County, for goodness sakes! How difficult do you think it is for him to get here and talk to people? If his visit slaps some sense into some people, then a little trip, even unofficial, is worth it in terms of preventative maintenance if nothing else! Corey Stewart has GALL criticizing anyone for wasting time and money when he can’t even fund an elderly program because he’s wasted the budget on this crap.
Will he find human rights violations? Who knows. I don’t know everything that goes on in the prisons and neither does anyone here. Will he find it in the HSM/CS/JS/GL/FAIR connection? YUP. I hope he brings them down for that. Will they find it in any disabled/elderly/mentally ill etc. who have been denied services based on immigration status? I don’t know. Either way, I hope he gets some more people from Mexico to work out a reasonable plan for the “illegals” who may or may not still be in this area….those without criminal records, that is….
That last reporter on Lou Dobbs was a complete idiot. Talk about no research. Sheesh. We ALL could do a better job than she did!
MWB did a good job here, and they should be commended for using legitimate resources available to ALL of us. This little trip won’t cost a hundredth as much as this “resolution” has cost us!
Why do we need the world to be watching little ole PW or any small USA town? Watch this video and see if you have not heard some of these hate terms used. I do not expect anyone to agree with me but I think the far right media has helped to create a country of intolerance by using a platform that most of us do not have. The Lou Dobbs’ of the world have lots of influence. They have not been truthful, do not have the facts and use their position irresponsibily.
http://www.wecanstopthehate.org/videos/code_words_of_hate_video
kgotthardt , 8. June 2008, 8:18
DITTO!! I agree
“This is really a case of the UN interfering in LOCAL GOVERNMENT policy. Not even US policy, which would be more their jurisdiction.” But we went OUT of our OWN jurisdiction long ago! Think of CS’s visit from the German delegate. Come on. This guy has presumed to do the Feds’ jobs long ago. Now he’s reaping the benefit. If he wants to play statesman, he’s had his chance, and not he’s getting it again.
No, CS brought this on himself and us by refusing to take responsible, cost effective, neighborhood measures and lobbying efforts to rectify this situation. And his love for the camera hasn’t helped the situation at all!
Whew. Look at all my typos and strange sentence structure this morning. I need another cup of coffee!!!
Sociologist Jorge Bustamante is nominated for Nobel Peace Prize
By: Michael O. Garvey
Date: January 24, 2006
Jorge A. Bustamante, Eugene P. and Helen Conley Professor of Sociology at the University of Notre Dame, has been nominated to receive the Nobel Peace Prize by Mexico’s Congress.
Bustamante, a native of Tijuana who earned his master’s and doctoral degrees from Notre Dame in 1970 and 1975, respectively, has been a member of the University’s faculty since 1986. He said he was pleased by the nomination and considered it an award in itself, adding that “in the past there have been up to 100 nominations, so I consider this a remote possibility, but the process has begun.”
In addition to his teaching and scholarship at Notre Dame, Bustamante founded and served for many years as president of El Colegio de la Frontera Norte, a Mexican research center for the study of social issues affecting the border region between the United States and Mexico.
An outspoken advocate of human and labor rights for immigrants worldwide and particularly in Mexico, Bustamante has vehemently criticized proposed legislation which would deny U.S. citizenship to the American-born children of undocumented immigrants, describing it as “not only unconstitutional but a grave act of xenophobia.”
The selection of a Nobel Peace Prize winner takes nearly a year, and the next award will be presented Dec. 10 in Oslo, Norway.
Contact: Jorge Bustamante at 631-3820 [email protected]
http://newsinfo.nd.edu/content.cfm?topicid=15422
LPOW, there is no report coming out of this. According to the UN, it is an “unofficial” visit made by the offical at the request of MWB, not the UN, so no report.
Mr. Bustamante, according to his writings, is an open borders advocate. He supports dual citizenship for Mexican citizens in the US and the free passage back and forth. While I disagree with this policy, his visit can cause no harm or good. What can he do or how can he possibly influence local government policy? He can’t. He is a method of publicity fo Mexicans Without Borders. The fact that Mr. Bustamante is supporting their efforts should give you a hint of where he stands on immigration issues as well as his previous writings.
There are extremist on both sides of the resolution and I count HSM on one side and MWB on the other. HSM has F.A.I. R. and MWB has brought in Ms. Chavez and now Mr. Bustamante. So each side turns the ratchet to counter the other. I try to keep this in mind as each tactic comes up.
LuckyDuck,
Thanks for pointing out that it is an official visit.
The quote that Dobb’s attributes to Bustamante about xenophobia increasing after 9/11, does anybody doubt that it has?
I would disagree that Chavez & the US Human Rights Commission is extreme or a tool of MWB, even our local HRC wrote an unfavorable report of the situation. In my opinion, her visit was justified. Additionally, she made a great point about the resolution and how the county jumped to the conclusion that ‘illegal immigration causes economic hardship and lawlessness’. The county only identified 3 million in costs out of a 750 plus million dollar budget without identifying a single benefit. Do they think all the home development isn’t partially attributable to the undocumented population? And the crime rate decreased as the Hispanic population increased so the lawlessness claim is also suspect. But it’s been six months though and to my knowledge no report has been issued. Does anyone have any more information on this?
LuckyDuck – I’m still confused then. If it is at the request of MWB, and “unofficial” in that case this means it is outside of his responsibilities as a UN official? And while there will be no written report – I don’t believe he will “remain silent”. In any case, I’ll reserve judgement until I see what happens, and what statements are made, FOLLOWING his visit, by him. It shall be interesting, I think we can all agree on that. However, I think there’s a lot other places he could unofficially visit worldwide, where he could do a lot more good. That’s just my point of view and I know others will disagree.
Marie,
Thank you for the website, I think we need to post the myth vs facts permenantly!
Elena,
I thought that video was enlightening. I agree that we need to post the facts. Generally, I think that is what happens. But let’s face it this is a very emotional issue and people are prone to post hearsay and what they feel in the heart.
I am pleased that all points of view are accepted here. Diveristy makes an interesting world and the more diverse we become the more we see the world through a different set of lens’.
I don’t think anyone here will disagree when i say it is hard to know what all the FACTS are in regards to this forthcoming visit. I will be interested in seeing the OUTCOME, and then will be able to make a better informed decision regarding the usefulness or non-usefulness of this visit.
Still thought – is the UN paying for ANY part of this visit? I can’t find the facts one way or the other – what does “unofficial’ mean. Who’s paying for his travel/hotel/food expenses? Our tax payer dollars pay UN dues – and for awhile the US was so rightfully disgusted with the waste and fraud within the UN – we rightfully held back a large portion of our dues. I’m not sure but I THINK we are now back to paying full dues – but again I’m not 100% sure.
As our taxpayer dollars pay UN dues, if any part of UN funds are going to pay for this “unofficial visit” – i personally have a problem with it. Again, i can’t find a definitive statement one way or the other, so I reserve judgement.
And again, I guess we’ll wait and see what this investigator says – he isn’t going to keep silent – you have to know that. So I’ll be interested in seeing if his investigation is “fair and balanced” or just slanted to what appears to be his point of view – as everything I’ve seen indicates he has an agenda, and it isn’t a balanced one. Again, I’m reserving judgement until I see what he says.
And when I say he has an agenda – he is known to be an “open borders” advocate – something I highly disagree with. Given that, I don’t really see him as being impartial on this topic. Again, we’ll see what statements he makes, as he isn’t going to come here and say nothing – if so, what would be the whole point of coming here? Even if he isn’t going to make an official report, he’s going to talk to the press or say something. It will be VERY interesting to see what he says!
LPOW,
I would think those (MSF) that invited him to OUR county would be footing the bill. I’m sure the MJM and WaPo already have interviews lined up with Sr. Bustamante.
It will be more than interesting as most things seem to be around our parts these days.
“He supports dual citizenship for Mexican citizens in the US and the free passage back and forth. ”
But at least with duel citizenship, we KNOW who would be coming and going, there would be security checks, the tax and employment issue would be taken care of…certainly there are advantages to this plan. However, I doubt Mr. Bustamante will be pushing this particular agenda in PWC. Our “resolution” is too local and a discussion about open borders would have to take place at national and international levels. It’s not going to happen effectively with a BOCS that has other agendas and problems of their own!
LPOW, even if the UN is paying, again, how expensive do you think this brief, local visit is? Mr. Bustamante spends a great deal of time in the U.S. Furthermore, compare that to how much our local government has WASTED in this effort to get Stewart elected and JS/GL glorified. Come on. There’s hypocrisy in CS’s statements of “concern.” He wasn’t so “concerned” when his German delagates showed up or when thousands of people protested outside his chambers. Why now?
Marie, thank you for posting that video. Perhaps as the hate crimes grow to unbearable levels, media will be interested in examining this mass brainwashing effort, exploiting hate for political gain.
http://www.wecanstopthehate.org/videos/code_words_of_hate_video
Advocacy journalism is a mainstay of Spanish language media. Accuracy is often optional and portraying Hispanics as victims is rampant. I take a lot of “news” from both sides of the issue with a grain of salt and sometimes dismiss it completely.
The video link that kgotthardt provided was an attempt of one group to exaggerate, demonize and redirect the argument. Let’s not talk about illegal aliens and their complete disregard for American sovereignty, let’s talk about words we can manipulate. I think it’s a very effective ploy because nobody wants to be charaterized as a hater.
As for Mr. Bustamante, how does he feel about illegal aliens facing the consequences of thier own decisions? I don’t think it’s a bad thing he’s coming. PWC should have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of.
I think it’s comically disingenuous to try to place F.A.I.R. and Help Save Manassas as the polar opposites of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission and the United Nations. Just my two cents.
That’s like saying the slavery and the fundamental notion of equality are two polar opposites. It is true that the two ideas are opposed to one another, but it is NOT true that they are equidistant from the the middle. This country has decided that slavery, Jim Crow, white supremacy, etc. are “extreme,” but the the Preamble to the Constitution is not extreme; it’s the foundation on which our country is based.
It takes a remarkably skewed frame of reference to see the U.S. Civil Rights Commission and the United Nations as extremists comparable to F.A.I.R. and Help Save Manassas. To do this, one must grossly distort people’s positions.
Thus, when you read something on a blog where someone grossly distorts the positions of an organization they don’t agree with, please consider the source, and don’t assume it’s accurate just because a person named “Lucky Duck” has told you so.
“The video link that kgotthardt provided was an attempt of one group to exaggerate, demonize and redirect the argument.”
Dignidad, I didn’t post the video link. I posted the article link.
Lucky Duck,
How is Ms. Chavez the extreme of HSM?
I have shared that I am not an “open borders” advocate, but I wonder, what does “open borders” actually mean? I lived in Europe for a year, travel between countries was easy, you just pass through a check point, show your I.D., answer a few simple questions, and you are permitted to enter. Is that “open borders” ?
Oh no, the anti-defamation league and their made up illegal immigration progoganda!
Dignidad, 8. June 2008, 12:53 , yes, clearly the ADL is known for its willingless to demonize the innocent and exagerate the real facts for its own purpose……stopping hate. How dare they! Dingnidad, you’ve got to be kidding. The ADL is a well respected organization and your choice to dismiss them speaks volumes for your inability to see the facts before you.
“Open borders” is not an actual position held by anyone we know. It’s just another label, a code word to remind easily manipulated people that “This is an invasion! It’s being funded by foreign governments! This you can see from the hordes of dark skin people over there! And mark these words: we are going to repel this invasion! One way or another!”
You know, the shared sentiment of common sense middle-of-the-road Americans like Robert “Disaster” Duecaster of Help Save Manassas, the guy who wrote the Immigration Resolution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuvFhB1k3x0
Mr. Bustamante supports “open borders”…free, unencumbered travel between Mexico and the United States. If you read his points, he is not talking about “checkpoints” or showing ID, he is talking, like Mexicans Without Borders, simple traveling back and forth between Mexico and the United States as one chooses, regardless of immigration status. Interestingly enough, Mr. Bustamante does not advocate for the same policy for Canadians and the US.
Why Hear Why Now, in my opinion (only) Mr. Bustamante is an radical in his views on immigration by his advocacy of open borders. I was not including the UN in this as his visit is listed as “unofficial”, not sanctioned by the UN, so he is not acting under color of the UN, but I consider his personal views as outside the mainstream. In my post, I stated that Mr. Bustamante was the extremist, not the UN..please read a bit closer, thank you.
Just because WHWN may consider such views as mainstream doesn’t make them so either…
Funny how Ms. Chavez, when she worked for a Republican Administration was villified by liberals and progessives for her positions and now that she has come into town to hold a hearing on legislation that these same groups abhor, she is now seen as a darling of the left. Ms. Chavez and her panel breeze into this county and attempt to interfer in local politics. If there were civil rights violations, then they should investigate that complaint, but they are not the forum to decide legally of ANY legislation. Where is any complaint that was filed with the United States Civil Rights Commission? They are there to investigate specific complaints of violations, not to conduct a fishing expedition. So, where is the report on this expedition? Where is any complaint to permit such an expedition ?
Elena, Mr. Bustamante’s concept of Open Borders is not for travel as you describe your experience in Europe. He is advocating Open Borders that permit citizens of Mexico (only) to enter into the United States as they need to for work and being permitted to return home and re-enter the US as they wish to work, not travel as you did.
I don’t know when you were in Europe, but with the EU, entry into one member Country is equal to entry into another. Your original entry point will be the location where you produce your passport and state your reason for entry. Once you do that, it is not necessary to do so in a second EU member country. But that is an agreement that EU members signed on to. We have no such agreement with Mexico.
I have no idea who Mr. Bustamante is. My point is that… just as it was not MWB but the concerned citizens of Prince William County who undid the legally dubious “Probable Cause” approach to local immigration enforcement, it is not Mr. Bustamante who will bring us comprehensive immigration reform next year. If your aim is to turn PWC into a police state, or to thwart efforts to achieve Comprehensive Immigration Reform, then you should deal with the citizens and Presidential candidates who are in your way, not with these scarecrow arguments against people who are either Mexican or have the word Mexican in the name of their group.
A lot of people are anti-Mexico right now, I’ll grant you that. But that doesn’t mean that everyone is against practical, socially responsible, legally defensible, and fiscally sound solutions. Those of us who are for all those things are the ones in your way.
I have never advocated for the position you paint WHWN, none of my posts demonstrate that. I have never advocated for a police state and defy you to produce a post of mine looking for that. I have posted numerous times of the need for comprehensive immigration reform, with the need of compromise from both sides. So please read before you pounce.
What I am tired of is both sides bringing in outsiders to inspect, disect and influence our County’s actions. I agree with you that it was the citizens of this County that got the resolution amended – that’s the way it should be done and for your information, I supported that change. But just as we all objected to FAIR being behind the resolution, I resent Mr. Bustamante coming here to share his “wisdom” on immigration, just as I resented Ms. Chavez coming here without standing.
We did this to ourselves and its up to us, not outside influences, to fix this mess.
Also, I harbor no resentment towards anyone of Mexican decent and I am offended by your stating so. The fact is, MWB has the word “Mexican” in its title and they are the principle group that is advocating for the illegal population. That’s why I wrote it out. They are to pro illegal immigration as HSM is to anti illegal immigration. By my not agreeing with their positions you take the old tact of crying racism. Again, show me how I post for that position! You can’t.
For the record, I do not support HSM either. But I take offense to your insinuation.
Mr. Bustamante, a sociologist nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006, is a human rights investigator for the United Nations and an alumnus of Notre Dame where he also has served as a professor.
Duel citizenship doesn’t necessarily imply completely open borders. Besides that, if anything like that were to be agreed upon, it would have to be between both the U.S. and Mexico. I don’t see the U.S. going for total roaming at the moment, especially post 9-11. HOWEVER, duel citizenship CAN help allievate some of the immigration and work-related problems we have been having.
Advocating “open borders” doesn’t make you pro-illegal. Think about that, Lucky. If you want an open border, you don’t want coming here to be illegal! What they want, like all of us, is immigration reform. Granted, their kind of reform might not be popular with many people, but really, we don’t even KNOW what they are suggesting specifically. Either way, who cares? The discussion is human and civil rights, not open borders. Big applaud for MWB for getting Mr. Bustamante here! That’s an amazing feat, and I don’t see GL and his gang getting support from the likes of the UN! (Any wonder WHY?)
advocation open borders makes you an advocate of open borders, not necessarily “pro-illegal” but in the sense of the united states at this point in time it’s close enough.
no “big applaud” for MWB getting bustamante here. it changes nothing, illegals are still “illegal” in the eyes of the law. you’ll see more crackdowns prior to election time, happens wherever parties are trying to show they are “tough” on illegal immigration. the illegals might want to hide out until after the election is over.
I could just as easily say Help Save Manassas is every bit as anti-immigrant as MWB is pro-immigrant, and I might be closer to being right.
Elvis, this year’s election will not be about crackdowns or no crackdowns because John McCain has too much integrity to rely on anger, resentment, and anti-immigrant hysteria to win the White House.
Thanks Kgotthardt, I see that wasn’t you.
Elena, I think the word invasion has been demonized. A lot of good, sensible people see it as such. It doesn’t sound pretty, because it isn’t. To manipulate words such as invasion and make them hate speech, is a good ploy. Like I said before, nobody wants to be characterized as a hater. I don’t know much about the ADL, but to say that a few people on television are going to inculcate good people to hate is a gross exaggeration. Well respected organizations are capable of using misleading rhetoric.
I don’t think anyone can argue with this statement. On the other hand, I don’t think how any of us feel about any of these issues necessarily pigeon-holes us into a ‘side.’
After reading this thread, I am going to come down on the side of….drum roll…..Lucky Duck. His answers are well thought out and researched, in my opinion.
Dingnidad,
Here is the background on the Anti Defamation League since you admit not knowing much about them, hardly an organization prone to “using misleading rhetoric” as you stated in your earlier post.
“The Anti-Defamation League was founded in 1913 “to stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all.” Now the nation’s premier civil rights/human relations agency, ADL fights anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry, defends democratic ideals and protects civil rights for all.
A leader in the development of materials, programs and services, ADL builds bridges of communication, understanding and respect among diverse groups, carrying out its mission through a network of 30 Regional and Satellite Offices in the United States and abroad.
The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) fights anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry in the U.S. and abroad through information, education, legislation, and advocacy. ADL serves as a resource for government, MISSION STATEMENT:
“The immediate object of the League is to stop, by appeals to reason and conscience and, if necessary, by appeals to law, the defamation of the Jewish people. Its ultimate purpose is to secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike and to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens.”
ADL Charter October 1913
media, law enforcement, educators and the public. The League:
scrutinizes and exposes extremists and hate groups
monitors hate on the Internet
provides expertise on domestic and international terrorism
probes the roots of hatred
develops and delivers educational programs
fosters interfaith/intergroup relations
mobilizes communities to stand up against bigotry
defends the security of Israel and Jews worldwide
maintains a comprehensive and up-to-date Web site: http://www.adl.org “
Lucky Duck,
I was in Europe prior to EU being ratified. I am still interested in hearing more from Mr. Bustamante. Obviously, we have had, and will continue to have issues with immigration and our closest southern border nations. What we have been doing hasn’t worked, I’m interested in new solutions. Solution Focused Therapy 101, if what you are doing is working, do more of it, if it isn’t working, time to try something new.
As far as Linda Chavez and the Human Rights Commission goes, lets not forget that Robert Duecaster, Gospel Greg, HSM, FAIR, NumbersUSA ,and IRLI was were integral to the creation of the initial resolution. At that time, did you know who and what these organizations and people were? I did not, but I certainly appreciated someone with some authority asking what our Board members had a required duty to ask but did not. Is the PWC Human Rights Commission also just another organization to be ignored and marginalized because they were supposedly beyond their scope of responsibilites in putting together a well researched report?
Sometimes I don’t get you Lucky Duck, you are an enigma to me.
Is the best case for Bustamante being for “open borders” the fact that he has duel citizenship? Is there any more substantive substantiation?
I’ve come to doubt anything written anonymously on a blog that pertains to anyone or anything with the word Mexican in any way applying.
He’s a human rights specialist. What’s so offensive about that? Are there human beings in Prince William County who are not deserving of human rights? Who then?
Some people in this county have expired paper or haven’t acquired papers yet. You could argue that they have broken a law, and you’d be correct, but that does not render them less human or less deserving of human rights.
I believe Stewart, Dobbs, Letiecq and their lot are feigning outrage over this visit because they know there is enough anti-immigrant and anti-Mexican sentiment out there to get some political mileage out of it. If the human rights in question belonged to any other group, the outrage would not be necessary or even conceived of.
In 1994, an American visiting Singapore broke a law. He vandalized a car. And his sentence was to be hit with a cane. Guess what. Americans went bonkers. You couldn’t watch the news without hearing pundits debate whether or not his human rights were being violated.
http://www.iht.com/articles/1994/03/04/sing_0.php
My point is that human rights and civil rights should be extended to everyone without question, no matter where they were born, and no matter where they travel. And, those whose job it is to monitor human rights and civil rights (Bustamante, Chavez) should not be attacked for doing so, no matter their heritage or their nationality.
Elena, I did not say that the ADL was prone to using misleading rhetoric. How could I generalize about a group I know very little about? I said “the word invasion has been demonized. A lot of good, sensible people see it as such. It doesn’t sound pretty, because it isn’t. To manipulate words such as invasion and make them hate speech, is a good ploy. Like I said before, nobody wants to be characterized as a hater.”
It’s worth repeating that well respected organizations are capable of using misleading rhetoric. Capable and prone have different definitions.
Dingidad, I’m sorry, but your post reads like an anti-immigrant computer program put it together using fragments from various web sites.
Did you consciously make the argument that the word “invasion” has been demonized?
The term “mass murder” also has a negative connotation. …Is there a grand conspiracy there as well? Is unfair manipulation to blame for the fact that “suicide bomber” rings a sour note in the ears of most? Are you offended by the bad reputation the words “chainsaw massacre” have earned after all those biased horror flicks?
WHWN: I think you got it right when you said “I could just as easily say Help Save Manassas is every bit as anti-immigrant as MWB is pro-immigrant, and I might be closer to being right”.
To me, both of those represent the extremes on each side, and I like to discount the extremists on both sides of this issue. In fact on almost any controversial issue, I find the extremists on each side of the issue often have lots of ideas that aren’t acceptible to the mainstream folks, and the more moderate folks on both sides of the issue.
So for me, I pretty much discount a lot of HSM’s ideas, as well as MWB’s idea. Both often add more heat to the issue, and not much in the way of helpful ideas. Both seem to like to stir up their “constituents” for lack of a better term! I find neither of them being particularly helpful, and think the average mainstream American looking at this debate would find a lot of the positions that HSM and MWB take to be fairly objectionable. Not that there aren’t some things that each of them are striving for that aren’t more in line with what I will call the moderates on each side wanting.
Anyway, that’s my take on it. And I consider myself a moderate on the side of “pro-resoltuion” if I have to be labeled in some way or fit into some group. But I often find much of HSM’s angry rhetoric objectionable and offensive.
And with MWB being the sponsor of this person’s visit (or at least they were the ones who “invited” him here) – the fact that I find them to be an organization that seems to try and stir things up and feed their constituents a lot of misinformation – instilling fear and other things – I think this visit will be used by them to stir up even more fear and incorrect information/propoganda to promote their “no borders” position. Again, to me no borders is a non-negotiable item. Every nation has the right to borders, and the right to have border security and to defend its border. For the US/Mexican border to be a place where people should be able to come and go back and forth without any checks or documentation – that just leaves the door wide open to terrorists forging Mexican citizenship papers and coming into our country unencumbered. And that’s just ONE problem I have with the “no borders/open border” debate. And it is funny, as other people have pointed out, I don’t see Canada asking us for the same thing.
Lucky Duck – I too am tired of both sides bringing in outsiders to this debate and as you say bringing in “outsiders to inspect, disect and influence our County’s actions..” I kind of resent how all these people from elsewhere in the USA and other places, can come and tell those of us in PWC how we should create our laws and enforce them, and what laws we should create in the first place! And its the fault of both HSM and MWB that they are getting all these people from outside of PWC and injecting them into this debate. Anyway, I think that’s a good point about both sides brining in outsiders and having them tell us how PWC should be run. I doubt some of those people would take kindly to us going to where they live and doing the same thing. And I blame HSM and MWB and organizations like them for stirring people up into a frenzy and injecting these outsiders into the debate – who more often than not, offer nothing useful and just add fuel to the fire with their agendas and write slanted propoganda pieces in the news media. All of it does nothing helpful. And, PWC should be able to solve its own problems. As someone pointed out (maybe you, I forget) – the citizens did get the resolution amended to take out the “reasonable cause” provision – and that’s an example of democracy working. If a law is particularly abhorent to a majority of citizens, over time it will get corrected, WITHOUT the need for all kinds of outsiders to descend on PWC and tell us what we should do!