Dear Posters,
We could tell, from behind the scenes, that onefortheroad was not who “he” said he was. Our mistake was wanting the “democratic” blog process to run its course and hope, with enough people here ignoring him, he would simply go away. However, it is clear, that there was a set up, so that Greg could use the comments posted by onefortheroad to demonstrate that we are a “hate” group over on Anti. What I have done is posted every comment, beginning with Moon-howler, calling out onefortheroads behavior. Unlike Greg’s blog, where hateful comments mostly go unchallenged, several posters attempted to encourage onefortheroad to go away, or suggest instead we ignore him in hopes HE would go away. This has been a learning experience for the blog, and we will make sure, in the future, that we are more aware of the duplicitous nature of the cyberworld and react accordingly to deal with hateful/aggressive comments when they are directed at a person or a specific group. Onefortheroad was clearly not here to discuss anything, his posts were simply to give an opportunity for Greg to “capture” the comment and use if for his own purpose. For those of us who can see behind the scene in the cyber IP world, it was clear that onefortheroad was questionable. We want to let free speech reign here, but we also want to allow people an opportunity to debate with people who are actually interested in having a “conversation”, not just playing a game that wastes people’s time.
Below are all the comments to onefortheroad, calling him out on his unacceptable comments. I’ll begin with Moon-howler as they told him he was now in moderation due to his comments:
Moon-howler, 24. June 2008, 16:21
OneForTheRoad has been placed in time out until the Blog-Mom is home and can review his posts. I did this with her approval because people felt that threats were being made.
New rule until Mom gets home: Do not threaten anyone. If you don’t like my decision, tattle to her later today.
Meanwhile, perhaps other bloggers might not want to respond to OFTR. Granted he not only enjoys talking with himself, but also arguing with himself, but let’s not give him the time of day.
Mando, 23. June 2008, 15:06
@Alanna and everyone else
OneForTheRoad/Taco Truck Ted is what is know as a forum troll.
Just Cause, 23. June 2008, 15:10
Mando- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Like all “pests” if you ignore them long enough, they will go away..trust me, this one too shall pass….
Elena, 23. June 2008, 23:48 Edit This
OnefortheRoad,
It is clear you are not “credible”. Your posts are schizophrenic in nature and you are clearly choosing to single out LPOW for harrassment, he is neither an HSM , KKK or neo-nazi member. Most likely people will choose to disregard your comments, which I believe is the best recourse.
IllegalisILLEGAL, 24. June 2008, 8:49
OneForTheRoad- Do you feel like a “man” now? Threatening people? What’s up with you?
rod2155, 24. June 2008, 9:07
“OneForTheRoad- Do you feel like a “man” now? Threatening people? What’s up with you?”
He’s Trolling, he’s just looking to pick a fight and get attention. He plays to both blogs and switches sides randomly, just ignor him, he gets off on getting people mad.
Elena, 24. June 2008, 10:19
Just in case it isn’t clear to people, please ignore oneforthroad. I think it was Mando that had the intial suggestion, and we should follow that lead.
IllegalisILLEGAL, 24. June 2008, 14:23
OneForTheRoad- You have not answered my questions yet. Why are you threatening people? And, what’s up with you?
AW if you build it they will all come. The good,bad and the ugly!!
I prefer the free forum here with the nutcases over a restricted environment. If some don’t have the good sense to ignore those that offend them or can’t handle the debate so what. I’d rather hang with the nuts and enjoy all amendment rights than be part of a group that prefers restricted thought. Its the part of being American that I really like!!
AW, I’ll come to your sandbox, too. Looking forward to when you go “live.”
AWCheney, I believe this blog set out to create a forum for fair and reasonable debate. For the most part there is, and you’re a respected voice here. Are you going to censor your posters? I’m just wondering how you will do things differently. Does there really need to be another area blog devoted to the topic? You say yours will be devoted solely to the issue of immigration. But frankly, what else needs to be said?
awc,
That is pretty much how this blog got started: as a reaction.
I certainly wish you the best with your endeavor.
Juturna, even “nutcases” are capable of participating in fair and reasonable debate if they know that there are rules of decorum, what they are, and are willing to abide by them. Even Mackie and I had such a moment where we could find common ground. I will make absolutely sure that the rules are carefully spelled out, as well as the consequences for violating them…and suggest that anyone commenting on the site read that first.
I hear ya Firedancer, however, I see where AWCheney is coming from… It would be nice if AWCheney started his own blog where it was more “in-the-middle”. I don’t post on BVBL but the “anti” site is just that, anti (the same accusations, just as bad personal attacks, same fear mongering tactics). To tell you the truth a blog somewhere in the middle would be a nice breath of fresh air.
For BVBL or ANIT-BVBL it’s seems like it’s one or the other. For people like me who are somewhat in the middle it’s frustrating. I would like to voice my opinion without being called a racist or being called an apologist.
AWCheney, start it!!! It’s about time, please let me know when it happens!! I’m behind you all the way.
Simple, Moon-howler…I only intend to moderate the debate (and not in the sense of blocking opinions). Everyone knows where I stand, but I don’t intend to make it a forum merely for my views. That’s not my purpose.
AWCheney,
Well, I already came up a name for it. Can you guess it? 🙂
I’m thinking about calling it “AWCheney’s Forum On Immigration.” Close?
What was the thread regarding solutions from the CNN reporter yesterday, was that not moderate enough? Our conversations are very well rounded and in depth on this blog….mostly. I talk to people all the time, republican , democrat, independent, and what I hear the most frequently is that the tone this county had taken, towards immigrants, whether they be legal or not was of great concern to them. So I would ask, “have you expressed your opinion to others” and do you know what I hear, almost everytime, ” I just wasn’t comfortable sharing my views becasue the climate was so hateful”. People were afraid to speak out against what was happening in this county, afraid to be singled out by the the vocal few, afraid to be called and “illegal alien apologist” or whatever else you would be named. I did not “invent” the climate in PWC and I refuse to pretend that calling hate out by its proper name is somehow wrong. Do some posters forget that civility is our best tool against people like Greg, yes, but is bound to happen sometimes. I have also witnessed several people apologize, on both sides of the issue, and that has been great to observe. We are in the “blogosphere”, not the most optimal place to debate. We aren’t going to “solve” the immigration issue here, we are just a bunch of people, putting out our thoughts, sometimes we can be outgoing only, and sometimes we accept alternate “incoming” ideas. Maybe I am feeling frustrated, maybe just tired, tired of taking time away from my kids to keep debating that there was a climate of hate growing in this county.
I don’t know the solutions, I have never said that I did know the solutions, but until we agree on the problems, how are we to agree on the solution?! It appears as though there is this desire to just skip the beginning process of solving problems and go the end part. In order to solve a conflict, you must first identify the problems and then move towards the solutions.
Emma, 25. June 2008, 18:00
Two days in a row I agree with you Emma 🙂
Concerned Citizen,
Maybe you can reduce this debate to such simplicity of pro illegal/ anti illegal, but the reality is that most of us fall in the middle, looking for reasonable and humane solutions.
hello, 25. June 2008, 22:20
For BVBL or ANIT-BVBL it’s seems like it’s one or the other. For people like me who are somewhat in the middle it’s frustrating. I would like to voice my opinion without being called a racist or being called an apologist.
I couldn’t agree with you more. It get quite frustrating being the middle. You have “to take it from both sides” of the debate. I would say the vast majority is somewhere in the middle. I will post here. I no longer post on bvbl.
AWC,
Good luck.
AWC, I think you were answering me, not my buddy Moon-howler.
I just don’t see the comparisons between this blog and bvbl. The only people who think they are the same in terms of level of insults and juvenile postings are those who disagree with the views Elena & Alanna. I see the ladies making great efforts to keep the dialogue civil and to encourage all points of views.
Well, it will be interesting to see how your Forum will be different….
AWC,
I was thinking Shake, Rattle and Roll 🙂
AW – lot of common ground here now. Occurs to me you never had your question about collusion answered. Good luck and will look forward to a new blog.
Chris,
I would like to hear your opinion 🙂
Sorry Firedancer…you’re right. My first sentence in that comment was, in fact, a direct response to your question. I’m actually trying to answer any and all concerns, because I’ve had them myself. I admit that I was actually shaking with anger when I posted my original comment, and not even particularly because of the comments here. I AM fed up with one-sided forums that allow hate-mongering and name-calling of any kind.
That’s why one of the things which I intend to do before I go public is make sure that the material I throw out for debate is done so WITHOUT OFFERING MY OWN OPINION. I like to think of myself as a fairly open-minded individual, although passionate in my beliefs. I intend to offer up my beliefs in my own comments, under the same rules that everyone else must follow (I would reserve the right, however, to be perhaps a bit impolite in the warning given to someone who grossly violates those rules by personally attacking people…I believe in appropriate “spanking”), but I do not want my opinion on the original post to be the subject of the debate, therefore I don’t believe that I should offer it. I’d also like to eventually have guest posters from all sides of the issue.
I just want to provide an objective forum. I may be dreaming, but I’m going to try. I’m just so sick of how the “debate” has been going…it seems to have done nothing more than attempt to raise the fear and hate level on BOTH sides.
Elena,
I am actually kinda busy at the moment. Oh, I have plenty of opinions. 🙂
Which one would you like to hear? I will be back on about midnight? Are you staying up that late tonight?
Just a FYI, it seems that Greg has blocked my announcement of how fed up I am, and my personal solution to that, over at BVBL. He forgets that we have more than one computer in this house, and it seemed rather odd to me that there was a spirited commentary on it over here but not over there. I just wanted to point out that I DID throw down the gauntlet at BVBL as well. I’ve got no problem with that, it’s his right…I just didn’t want anyone thinking that I was less than truthful when I said that I was posting a similar announcement at that site (on the thread “Topping Over The Top”).
Hello,
Trust me, the personal attacks aren’t as bad here. There are strong minded people here, as there are on any blog. Here, the middle of the road people are allowed a forum without being beaten about the head and shoulders routinely by the trolls that guard the cyber doors of the other blog.
Here, one person has been banned since early Feb. You know why. Another person got a very temporary time out. That is over and done with and it doesn’t need to be rehashed.
The other place banned you or put you in moderation, without telling you, routinely for having an opinion that wasn’t the party line. Big difference, in my eyes. Many of the people here came out of that situation. They weren’t vular, didn’t threaten anyone, or scream at people. They just had an opinion that wasn’t the ‘opinion of the house.’
You need to look real carefully at this blog before deciding where it fits in the political spectrum. Don’t let others make that decision for you. We aren’t a club or an organization–just people who are concerned about issues of public policy, especially locally. Many of us have become friends and enjoy socializing.
For every ‘nazi’ hurled at someone here, there are 2 ‘liberal illegal alien apologists’ hurled on bvbl. Sticks and stones and all that…….
AWCheney,
So, Greg has now blocked even you? But why don’t you have a problem with that? Was your post so unacceptable that it should be censored? It’s his right, sure, but that doesn’t make it right.
AWC,
Now that just says it all!
I’ve had him take my comments down. But, to block you from posting. Hopefully, you are just in moderation. Which I can’t even understand that. I agree with Elena. It’s his right, but it sure does NOT make it right.
awcheney,
Welcome to our world:)
Now you truly understand why we are here.
I see your blog as another experience, not a threat.
How long will it take to get it up and running?
Right or wrong, I still believe that it’s his right…it’s his blog. I take no particular exception with that, as I would the hypocrisy of CLAIMING to be a forum that does not exercise that right criticizing one that does. I may simply be in moderation, given the email exchange I had with him today. I have every intention of blocking people, if necessary, although not arbitrarily and certainly not because I simply don’t agree with them. I intend to protect the integrity of the forum (I don’t even consider it “my” forum) under a “3 strikes, you’re out (literally)” rule. I’m still working all that out. I’ve got a ways to go.
I have no idea Moon-howler…I’ve never tried anything like this before (I’ve never considered myself a “great writer” which is why I’ve turned down offers to join other blogs), and it’s a little different from running a campaign or a business. All I know is, I’ve got to give it a shot, and any and all advice is welcome…even when I’m up and running and screw up! 🙂
The best advice is to have FUN 🙂 This blog is allot of fun along with some tears but more fun than anything… ..oh and of course, learning a thing or two 🙂
“For every ‘nazi’ hurled at someone here, there are 2 ‘liberal illegal alien apologists’ hurled on bvbl. Sticks and stones and all that…….”
It happens, Moon-howler, that I don’t believe in that old saw…and I don’t intend to tolerate it.
I agree, AWCheney. It is his blog and he can make his own rules. And he can choose to share them or not share them.
Now this blog has joined the ranks of having to censor. It was only a matter of time.
I believe all the regulars here would agree, it isn’t that banning and censoring take place, it is how it happens and why it happens that has irritated so many of us.
Post your rules and regs, be consistant, and you will most definitely have a great blog.
By the way Chris, when do we get together again? I’m back on my “insomnia” schedule, so I’m rather flexible.
Well, my husband just firmly committed me…he’s in the process, at this moment, of registering my domain name. The site will be http://www.AWCheneyForumOnImmigration.com or .net or .info or .us. No turning back now.
By the way Elena, or Moon-howler, what hosting site do you use here, and would you recommend it for ease of use?
The attacks here are a far cry from what I’ve seen posted on bvbl. I can be “over the top”, as I believe we have all been guilty of a time or two in our day.
I may not agree with all the comments and/or threads on here. I do believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that my comments won’t be taken down simply because I do not agree. I can not say that samething of bvbl. I have had comments taken down on bvbl. Simply because I called some “men” out on their behavior. I have a copy of my comments that were taken down. I am not quite sure why they were taken down. I can only speculate. Where they taken down for simply being a woman? Where they taken down because I did not use my usual “handle”? Was it because I used a last name that was not familiar to all who claim to know me? I think it was a combination of all of the above. I had just seen enough of the nastiness and had enough. Well, I exercised my first amendment right, and got it shot down.
I don’t post on bvbl like I once did. I have no intention of ever posting over there again. The name calling and lack of respect for those with varying opinions is not what I am about. Nor, do I want to be a part. Where’s respect and the humanity?
There are some threads that I would never post on because of the magnitude of the assumptions. The teacher threads come to mind. I am not willing to jump on the band wagon when it comes to “rumors” regarding ones profession. I am of a firm belief we are all entitled to a speedy fair trail.
AWC,
I’m sorry to here the “insomnia” is back. Eggs Benedict are good anytime of the day. 😉
Perhaps, we can a mutual friend to join us. I hope all are well. Sounds like you’ve got a bit work cut out for the “Mr.”.
corr: Perhaps, we can GET a mutual friend to join us.
I’d enjoy that…we definitely need to contact that mutual friend. Give me a heads up, long enough to make myself presentable enough to be seen in public, and I’ll be there!
As far as that “Mr.” of mine…he couldn’t be more accommodating. I married well! 🙂
I have no doubts of the “Mr” over there. I have to say my second/current/final husband is the same way. Maybe, it has something to do with our being raised in PWC. 🙂
I will be in touch with both of you soon. Consider yourselves warned.
Oh good Lord! When was the last time you saw the word “Nazi” from me or anyone else here? My argument has and always will be that we should learn from history, just as the previous posting on this blog shows the progression from harassment to extermination. My point: THAT IS HOW IT STARTS! End of story. I side with the ADL on terminology used.
Sorry if you don’t like my diction or syntax. But really, we need to move on in order to get a solid discussion continuing.
I’ve been called a “moonbat” “unhinged” “illegal sympathizer” “left wingnut” “Socialist” and “fat chick” among other things that make it over to my own blog (discussed later). Do you think I’m going to hang on and on and on and whine about it? How utterly boring and counter-productive.
I agree. This blog, because it is not moderated, can turn into juvenile idiocy at times. I’m not dissing Alanna or Elena at all because they do a tremendous job here! And it’s certainly not hateful. But that is the kind of thing you get if you don’t moderate. On my own blog, if I allowed every comment of “bitch” “shut up” “fuck you” or “douche bag” to get posted, I’d have a series of stupid commentary and little else. Unfortunately, it takes only a few angry/unthinking/mean people to spoil the fun and productivity of blogging.
Elena,
🙂
Here is the link to the long-lost Solutions thread:
http://www.antibvbl.net/index.php/2008/04/05/solutions/
When the moderators changed servers, several of us asked if we could then have a dedicated Solutions tab at the top of the page that could easily be accessed and updated by readers. Of course, it would have to be moderated to be kept “on topic.” I think the Solutions thread linked to above was a real start, and, again, a few of us asked if that could become part of the permanent thread.
For whatever reason, the mods decided not to do that. I, too, was excited to see a Solutions tab on the redesign but dismayed to see that it contains only links.
Maybe we can try again to get this change made, so that those who accuse us of never offering real solutions can be told (literally!) where to go. 🙂
PS…Summer with the kids has been keeping me busy, so I don’t get here to post as often.
Over and over thia blog has demonstrated the most valued right we have – free speech and by result good manners!!
Let’s keep it up and congratulate our Admmin –
PS given the facts sparring with the other is no longer a fair fight.
Yes, this blog allows free speech.
test
http://www.yahoo.com
I hear ya, Casual!
Hi kgotthardt – Ill agree with you on one thing, it’s been a while since you have called someone a racist or nazi or what ever else and to tell you the truth I have noticed that and it’s quite refreshing. However, you did just say “Slowpoke, remind me to let you die a slow, miserable death the next time you violate civil law.”. Is that any better?
Sure, some of the name calling and such does seem to be a little more pointed on BVBL and “in your face” but name calling is name calling. I’m not sure you can really say calling someone a “nazi” isn’t as offensive as calling some a “bitch” or (insert any comparison here).
Calling someone a nazi or a racist is highly offensive when the person who is being called that is neither of those things. Don’t think it to be otherwise. And don’t think kgotthardt doesn’t know that, and it has only been a few weeks since she has engaged in such behavior. Maybe a lifetime on this blog, but still, not really that long of a time. If 6 months go by and she refrains from calling someone a nazi or a racist, who isn’t, then it will be a lot more convincing. Anyone willing to place bets if she makes that 6 month mark?
good question An Observer, I think she can make it but to tell you the truth I wince just a little when I see she posted a comment and kind of read it squinting thru one eye.
I spent my formative years with nuns. We referred to them as the Geometry Nazi, Physics Nazi and my personal favourite the religion Nazi. I try not to take name calling too seriously. After all I am a New England democrat living here. I’ve been called much much worse for being that!!
I get the point but there are bigger nasties.
Add the correction of the solutions link, to the long list of things Admin has to do already. If it were that easy she would have re-created it by now.
By the way, I posted in another area what appears to treat coming into this country illegally is more than a civil matter. It also has criminal penalties. But no one has replied to clarify it for me. There is just a lot of talk of religion that have overtaken it. If anyone can steer me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
The link is as follows so that I don’t take up valuable space on here.
http://www.antibvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/25/death-by-detention/#comments
OK, my blog address is http://AWCheneyForumOnImmigration.com (or practically any other .whatever). It looks like I should be up and running in a week. Until then, thanks for the encouragement.
Anke Cheney
Let us know when you are up and running, awc.
Juturna, I am laughing over your nun nazis. My brother and I used to call nw airlines flight attendants sky nazis. I always thought nuns were called penguins.