When I watch this story, I am compelled to reach a consensus regarding a reasonable humane immigration solution. Is this the immigrant we want to focus our time and attention on? Don’t you think our collective immigration energy and MONEY should be focused on real criminals, like murderers, gang bangers, and felony criminals? If this was your sister, what would you do?
104 Thoughts to ““Death by Detention””
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You’re compelled to reach a solution? Can it be one where we enforce US law and force the elitist scumbags we call representatives to uphold the laws they swear to uphold, and to pass laws in the light of day to make the social changes they want to make (to lower wages)?
Or must it be “comprehensive”, meaning we have to let everybody off the hook for any sins committed while in the service of lowering American wages and standard of living?
We all need to write our Senators and House of Representatives and demand that they support U.S. Sen. Robert Menendez’s Health Bill for detainees. Here is another example of what could be neglect of others in federal custody.
Bill addresses immigrant detainee health
Friday, June 20, 2008
BY RUDY LARINI
Star-Ledger Staff
Boubacar Bah was a tailor from Guinea who was being held in custody at the federal detention center in Elizabeth last year for overstaying a tourist visa.
There, he fell and fractured his skull and began behaving erratically. Instead of receiving immediate medical attention, he was shackled and taken to a disciplinary cell where he was held for more than 12 hours, according to news accounts.
Finally taken to a hospital, Bah, 52, lapsed into a coma and died four months later.
Bah is one of 71 immigrant detainees who have died in custody nationwide over the past five years. Yesterday, a small group of clergy and immigrant advocates pressed for passage of a bill to improve medical treatment for the 32,000 detainees held in facilities across the country.
The two main provisions of the bill, sponsored by U.S. Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), would require the federal Department of Homeland Security to establish procedures for the “timely and effective” delivery of medical services for immigrant detainees, and to report all detainee deaths to Congress and the department’s Office of Inspector General.
The measure would also ensure continuity of care for detainees with serious chronic health conditions and require that detainees have access to necessary medications.
Shai Goldstein, executive director of the New Jersey Immigration Policy Network, called the detainee fatalities “deaths that could have been, and should have been, avoided.”
Some recent news reports, including stories in the New York Times and Washington Post, have highlighted evidence of shoddy care and lax practices for determining when medical treatment is required.
Alix Nguefack is detention project coordinator for the American Friends Service Committee. She said her immigrant advocacy group “hears stories of immigrant detainees having to wait weeks and even months before they are seen by medical staff.”
Goldstein said the Menendez bill would “ensure that doctors make the appropriate decisions, not bureaucrats within the detention system.”
Under current practices, medical decisions of on-site staff at detention facilities — operated by private contractors — can be overruled by off-site officials without further review.
But Harold Ort, a spokesman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, defended health care in its detention centers. “We strive to maintain safe, secure and humane conditions in all of our facilities,” he said. ICE provided more than 184,000 health screenings in fiscal year 2007 and found that more than a third of detainees had a chronic health problem, especially high blood pressure and diabetes.
“For many of these folks, this is their first exposure to medical care,” Ort said.
“If folks are saying our medical care is not good, it’s not right because we’re giving very good care,” he added. “We take this very seriously.”
Ort also said the death rate for detainees in ICE custody has declined from 10.8 to 3.5 per 100,000 from 2004 to 2007. ICE has had 1.5 million detainees in its system since its creation five years ago, he said.
Many immigrant detainees are merely awaiting civil deportation hearings, Goldstein said. “It is absolutely crucial that we understand the paradigm,” Goldstein said. “Detainees are not criminals. They are, for the most part, in violation of civil codes. There is no basis for many of them to even be in these detention centers.”
He called for comprehensive immigration reform.
“Until that occurs, we are going to continue to put at risk those who are yearning to breathe free,” Goldstein said at the rally outside the detention facility, which looks like the warehouses that surround it. “Sen. Menendez’s bill is unfortunately necessary. Our greatness is based on how we treat the most vulnerable.”
This story is very sad and seems to be something that could have been prevented. Unfortunately this happens to ANYONE that is detained, regardless of legal status, for crimes committed or until the mess is staigtened out.
I’m curious, where they brought into the united states against their will i.e. kidnapped and brought here? seems like the government is doing more than their share for those that are hear illegally. what these folks deserve is not being held in a camp, but immediately deported upon capture. If they are held in a facility, it should be for no longer than it takes for them to board a bus or plane out of this country. Expediency is the operative word here, showing expedient deportment is a deterrent. This shouldnt even be a topic of discussion. when you get down to the brass tacks people here illegally are criminals no matter how you slice it. I dont want criminals living in my neighborhood.
em
The problem is that all detainees are not criminals and the system is full of both criminals and non-criminals. Unfortunately the system is broken. Being here illegally does not make one a criminal. It is a civil offense. I agree, and most will agree, we do not want any criminals on the street which includes citizens, born in US, legal or illegal.
It really is more complicated than putting someone on a plane, train or boat to send them back to their country. If the United States actually is going to deport undocumented and criminal alien residents, it is believed the aliens need to be detained throughout the deportation process. If they are not kept in custody, there is a belief that there is no guarantee the government will ever see them again — regardless of the outcome of their Immigration Court case. If you want to know more about the process look at the Department of Justice Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) website.
Yes the horrors, murders, and child rapes that happen when they’re coming in here drawn by the hospitality some of you want to exhibit is much greater than any tragedy associated with their deportation.
Illegal immigrants=
Tax evasion
driving without a license or insurance
false impersonation/ identity theft
strain on unemployment
Free Government assistance ( My tax dollars PAY FOR)
But your right, their not criminals…..
I think a detainee should be treated humanely and with dignity. That being said, if I am somewhere, and am not getting what I think I deserve, I will leave and go find it somwhere else. If she was being detained, could she have not just flown home to her home country? Do we keep detainees against there will? If I was in her shoes, I would have gone home, and gotten the medical care that I needed.
Should we provide free medical care to a person who is not within the borders with correct paper work? Where does it end?
Just Cause,
there are many illegal immigrants that pay taxes, have licenses, have not stolen an identity and is not using Free Gov’t Assistance – there are many tax paying, productive individuals who own houses and pay their way. Saying that they are all living off our backs is an untruth.
The American system “needs fixing now”? Why on earth would you immigrate to a broken system? In the meantime, over 47 million American citizens do not have heatlh insurance. We need to move these illegal immigrants out of detention quickly and worry about the health care of U.S. citizens. I can’t believe these people don’t have the option to go back home if the health care they receive doesn’t meet the usual high standards of their native countries.
Let’s look to our enlightened neighbor, Mexico, for a shining example of how to treat immigrants. This is from the Chicago Tribune, May 2, 2008:
I love it when they tell us what WE are doing wrong.
This is a very sad story and ICE should have kept her family informed and/or took better care of her sister but it kind of sounds like an isolated incident. As was said in the video over 1,000,000 people have passed thru ICE and 66 have died. That means that 0.000066 percent of the people have died in ICE custody. Is that too much or any better than out in society, I don’t know. You would have to wonder how many people out of the 1 million that have gone thru ICE would have died if the didn’t go thru ICE.
Of course, you’re not getting the whole story here. Death may have been inevitable in many of the 66 cases, regardless of the care given. It’s ridiculous, though, that we could hold someone for so long that we then become responsible for their long-term healthcare needs. Speed up the process–deport them or let them go free–otherwise you have a political hot potato and lawyers lining up to feed at the trough.
I know a guy who was detained one time. He was out of state so it took a couple of days to verify that he was legal. They put him in a jail cell with a large group of men. There wasn’t any place to sleep. The food he described sounded like balogna sandwiches. He’s a healthy young man, but I can imagine that someone with a pre-existing medical condition could be seriously stressed after a while in conditions like those he described.
That’s inexcusable. All prisoners and detainees should be fed, clothed and housed decently. I would hope that that was an exception, not the rule.
El Guapo, I feel for the dude you were talking about but I still say that I think this topic was an isolated incident. I believe that the reason why this post was put here was to draw attention to the conditions people detained by ICE go thru. However, I think that this particular incident is somewhat blown out of proportion. Just look at the numbers I put up previously… This looks like an attempt to show that people detained by ICE are somehow being mistreated and the numbers just don’t show that. It’s in the very video that was included in this thread (that I talked about earlier).
Coming to this a bit late, but I find it odd that people are suggesting Kenley was in the US illegally, or didn’t have the right paperwork, etc. etc. She was a legal permanent resident. She had lived here for more than 30 years. What happened was she made the mistake of traveling out of the country on a visit back to Barbados, and upon return two misdemeanor drug convictions showed up on the ICE database. Why are people suggesting she was illegal? From a NYT news account of her (and others’) cases:
“Ms. Kenley had been traveling with her 1-year-old granddaughter when she arrived at Washington Dulles International Airport, records show, and she was ordered to return without the baby to discuss two old misdemeanor drug convictions that had surfaced in an airport database.
She obeyed. A transcript shows she admitted a conviction for drug possession in 1984 and one in 2002 for trying to buy a small amount of cocaine. She described a life derailed by drug addiction after 11 years of working in a newspaper mailroom.
”I turned my life around,” Ms. Kenley told the immigration inspector, pointing to three drug-free years after probation and treatment, completion of a nursing course, and legal custody of the granddaughter, Nakita. She also showed that she was taking blood pressure medication and was scheduled for surgery.
The inspector arrested her, invoking the law: two drug-related convictions made her subject to exclusion from the United States.”
Apparently, according to the above, the woman even *came back* to comply with the ICE official after she handed off her granddaughter.
I have seen firsthand how immigration officials are hostile even with native born Americans returning home. If this woman had never traveled (post her misdemeanors), she probably would still be alive. She was as established a resident here as any of us are. The difference is we are protected as citizens. If we get in trouble with the law and complete our punishment, we don’t suddenly lose the right to live here.
Emma:
OMG, what a cold blooded statement to make.
Why don’t we put all detainees up in private suites complete with room service and anything else they may want. I’m sure everyone here would love to foot that bill. After all, why shouldn’t we treat them as honored guests, since they haven’t murdered anyone. Meanwhile a hundred times more legal citizens are faced with living in worse conditions having done nothing wrong other than having little income to live on. Your sympathies are admirable, but totally misplaced.
Right, Mackie. And so was my next statement:
Cute trick, isolating one statement out of context.
“As was said in the video over 1,000,000 people have passed thru ICE and 66 have died. That means that 0.000066 percent of the people have died in ICE custody.”
Translate that into another institution:
3 classrooms of chilren in public school
1 inpatient wing at a hospital
both sides of the street you live on–everyone in each house
Stats tend to degrade the seriousness of situations. What if one of the 66 were your parent or child or family member? Even if their “time was up” it would still be upsetting. The fact it happened in detention makes it all the worse.
This isn’t about stats or illegals. This is about how we treat one another as human beings.
Second Alamo,
So you don’t believe people in dention should be given proper medical treatment? You believe the legal resident is the person we should be targeting? Hmm, what is Sandra were you mom or aunt, or sister?
By all means, let’s ignore the fact that actions we chose to make have consequences! It’s much easier to do anything we please and expect the government to clean up our mess. Death in detention is one of the potential consequences of illegally sneaking into our country. But let’s not hold anyone accountable for any of their actions. Instead let’s teach our children that they can break any law they chose to break, and we’ll give them amnesty, free health care (when many US residents can’t get health care at all). Let’s all erase any notion of responsibility. Don’t worry, son, you can rape an 8-year-old girl someday and you won’t have to worry about the death penalty. The stench is getting stronger and stronger.
Admin,
I tried to post with 1 link and its not showing up.
Slowpoke Rodriguez, 26. June 2008, 9:59
AMEN!
How nice to read something on this blog that actually MAKES SENSE!
Freedom lives.
Citizens are armed.
Subjects are unarmed.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080626/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_guns
Slowpoke, remind me to let you die a slow, miserable death the next time you violate civil law. (irony)
Even prisoners have rights.
Sorry I’m over the sad stories..I could show you 90+ more where detainees died while incarcerated..all legal citizens at that… and Im sure THEIR families are wondering WHAT HAPPENED as well…
Prettty soon we will have illegals sueing law abiding citizens, if not already…
kgotthardt, 26. June 2008, 11:06
Another example of being blunt???? You are exactly what you despise..
heres more rope…and more rope…and more rope……
Slowpoke and stw,
When I read your above posts, I come away with the impression that you are celebrating this innocent person’s death. You are almost hoping that negligence to the point of murder by the states will serve as a deterrent to illegal immigration. You almost see this type of abuse as useful. I wonder, do you two consider yourselves Christian? If so, isn’t such an attitude at odds with your beliefs?
Just Cause, I believe the word “irony” escaped you.
Mackie – But of course you would come away with that impression! I woiuld expect nothing less from you! Because I disagree with you, I am evil, therefore, I am celebrating someone’s death. Now there’s a stretch! Here’s something you should try to use – your brain!
kgotthardt – I was just pointing out that the death rate so far for people detained by ICE is 0.000066 percent. I wasn’t trying to make lite of this woman’s situation. You failed to mention that I did say “This is a very sad story and ICE should have kept her family informed and/or took better care of her sister”.
The fact of the matter is people do die, how many of the 1 million people would have died if they weren’t in ICE’s custody? I don’t know what that number would be but I don’t think it would be that far off of 66. To me it seems as if this particular thread is trying to paint an ugly picture of how ICE treats the people who are detained and the numbers just don’t show that.
Also, “Slowpoke, remind me to let you die a slow, miserable death the next time you violate civil law.”
That’s a bit out of line don’t you think?
stw,
I noticed that you failed to answer my question as to whether or not you consider yourself Christian?
none of your business, Mackie!
What difference does it make what religion someone is?
Mackie, are you suggesting that Christian values should predominate?
How oppressive.
And how ironic.
Wackie-Mackie made a silly comment….so now he/she/it has to resort to finger pointing. A reoccurring strategy on this blog.
And who are you, Mackie, to decide the appropriate behavior or thought process for a Christian? Are you in a position to throw stones?
Kgottardt- Yea just like IRONY escaped this WHOLE story…
hello- Because kgotthardt used the term “irony” she is excluded from any repercussions ( talk about B** S***)
and Mackie is using religion as some sort of strategy here..
I just think that I would assume those who call themselves christian would be appalled that an innocent women can die due to such criminal negligence. I don’t think Christians would ever condone such a thing no matter how effective it may serve to deter illegal immigrants. What I’m hearing from the posts above is that it’s a tragedy but if it helps deter illegal immigration, well then it’s a useful tragedy. This sounds pretty ugly to me.
No one condones this death. It was simply a matter of perspective–was this happening on a mass scale with ICE or are these isolated incidents? There really is no insight as to the actual scope of the problem. No matter how well-thought-out a system is, someone will ALWAYS fall through the cracks, because the systems are managed by fallible human beings. Every death is a tragedy.
Mackie –
Obviously, you “heard” wrong.
You are hearing what you WANT to hear, Mackie, not what is actually being said.
Ill agree with Emma on this one Mackie, nobody is trying to say that this woman’s death isn’t sad and/or appalling. The thing that gets me is you seem to think that only a Christian would feel somehow different than a Jewish or Muslim person about this womans death. Again, I don’t see what religion has to do with any of this. Are you suggesting that Jewish people somehow see death differently? I just don’t get that angle you were using…
Slowpoke Rodriguez,
The woman in question was a legal resident of the United States.
You certainly take a discussion to a level of absurdity real fast.
You aren’t even credible, despite your cheerleaders in the peanut gallery.
Hi Moon-howler – I was just pointing out that kgotthardts comment was out of line. I don’t care what your view point is I wouldn’t say “(insert person heree), remind me to let you die a slow, miserable death the next time you violate civil law.”
Not cheerleading for anyone, just pointing out absurd comments…
Oh, is that a cheerleader for Mackie I hear?
I agree, STW. I find Mackie’s singling out of Christians appallingly ironic in so many ways.
stw, not really. Mackie seems more than capable of handling his own section.
Hello, I would say that ‘irony’ probably is a good qualifier to go along with the comment.
I’m sorry, I meant to address that to hello, not STW.