112 Thoughts to “Behind The Veil: America’s Anti-Immigration Network”
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I’m still waiting to meet someone who is actually “anti-immigration.”
I’m starting an organization and the purpose of it will be to seek out and list groups I consider hate groups. I’ll start with SPLC. They hate everyone who wants something done about ILLEGAL immigration.
Emma,
Right you are. People are anti-ILLEGAL immigration.
Emma,
Do you mean that these organizations aren’t anti-immigrant or just regular people who are anti-immigrant?
Let me ask,
If an organization suggests halting or limiting legal immigration, would you consider that to be anti-immigrant?
Alanna,
Halting would be anti-immigrant, and limiting would NOT. We need total immigration reform, period.
We need are borders and ports secure first and foremost.
The bottom line is we do need guest workers in the US. We DO need to make sure that the numbers are fitting to fill the needs of the guest worker and seasonal jobs, etc. We need to make sure guest workers and students are not overstatying there visas. And by the same token, we can not not let everybody in that wants in all at once. There will be a waiting process and it the wait time will probably not be as short as some would like.
We also need guest workers to be treated fairly, not like slaves in the hands of self-serving corporations.
Alanna, thank you so much for finding that video. Much of this information was already known, of course, those those of us who are interested in factual information in addition to posting comments on the internet using talking points that didn’t make any sense a year a go and make less sense now.
Hate Bunnies, if you are currently typing out the words “I know you are but what am I” in an email to SPLC, or if you are currently typing the words “the talking points I’ve memorized without critical thought and repeated over and over again for 2 years are NOT derived from hate groups,” or if you’re just going to post something, anything, to try to mitigate the impact of that video, I have one suggestion. Watch the video first.
If you do that, and reference the video while watching it, those of us who read your dissenting comments will have more reason to take you seriously. Since most of you have already discredited yourselves numerous times by posting inane comments without having read the news article or watched the video that started the thread, I would also suggest that you reference a part of the video that happens toward the end, just to make it look good.
You Tube allows you to skip forward, by the way. Just try it. Quote something back and say you disagree. It’s simple really. It’s called an informed discussion.
Limiting is not necessarily anti-immigrant, however when these organizations want to severely restict or have a moratorium on immigration, in my book it’s anti-immigration.
kgotthardt is right on target. Guest workers need to be treated fairly but often they are not. Guest worker programs can cast workers into a second-class citizen status and put their fate into their employers’ hands, creating an opportunity to exploit them. It also encourages employers to pay reduced wages, not compensate workers for overtime and diminish the working conditions.
Alanna,
Severe restriction will get us no where. We need reasonable reform. The problem being the reasonable voices are drowned out by those extremists on both sides.
The video does display the links back to the “hate groups” of origin. I can’t say I liked the history I heard on some the individuals. However, I would not say all individuals in these groups are “haters”. Yes, I’m sure the have some. It goes back to there will always be some “bad apples” in a bunch.
It doesn’t really matter what we call “limiting” legal immigration. It’s bad policy, that’s what it is and anyone can see that if they just take a moment to study economics, and the severe labor shortage we face. The U.S. Department of Labor reports we have a labor shortage to the tune of 10 million workers. And, in the high skill job sector, when you look at the number of engineers, for instance, graduating from India and China compared to the number we graduate here … we SIMPLY WILL NOT COMPETE with those nations or with EU and many other emerging nations in coming decades unless we find to bring a considerable number of those types of people here.
I don’t care if you call it racist or not. We have to get over the idea that people from non-white countries are somehow less welcome, less “educatable,” less American, less likely to assimilate, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yes, our parents may have taught us to believe this crap. Yes, there is an Anti-Immigrant network out there selling this crap. And yes, sometimes politicians we like and support try to capitalize on this crap. But it doesn’t mean we’re racists for believing it, and it doesn’t mean we’re not racists if we don’t.
It’s impractical to believe that crap. It’s bad policy to govern based on that crap. That’s why Tom Tancredo is not a presidential nominee. It will ever happen because there aren’t enough government officials who are quite that dumb.
So please, let’s stop arguing over whether consumers of bad information should or should not be blamed or judged for believing it. Just look at the facts, consider them, and ask yourselves which way you want this country to go.
In my view the fact that F.A.I.R. and all its front groups and tributaries are founded by white supremacists is not the determining factor in rejecting their policy ideas. They are bad policy ideas. This is demonstrable without calling anyone any names. Yes, the fact that they are white supremacists should cause us to question their motivations. But it is the fallacy of the policies they recommend that should tell you not to go their direction.
Who knows this better than the people of Prince William County?
Marie,
I think those that are here illegally and get hired by contractors and citizens alike aget exploited too. They will pay these people in cash if they pay them at all in some cases. I feel guest workers legally here are paying taxes and do have some rights as workers if working for a company. There will always be those wanting to take advantage of workers of types. The companies have insurance, worker’s comp and other benefits and this should be a far greater advantage to those workers.
corr: There will always be those wanting to take advantage of workers of *ALL* types.
the SPLC is a blight on the face of the legal profession, what started out as a good thing has turned into a travesty, before you start touting the SPLC as the end all be all of non-profit organizations, you should take a look online. google is your friend here.
as another poster mentioned, the SPLC talks trash about anyone and again this blog fails to differ between “anti-illegal immigrant” and “anti-immigrant” you just like to lump them into the same ball of wax just to get your convoluted point across. I would just like you (the blog owners) to be ashamed of yourselves for swinging this blog to the left to support your political views. I hope you dont raise your children with these values. you talk about propaganda, etc..but look what you’ve done with this blog! it started out as fairly centrist but after obama has taken the democratic lead it’s started to turn into an “obama blog” for the most part. I’m surprised ad’s are not appearing at the top yet (they probably already are).
Let me say from the outset that I am distrustful of ANY of these organizations— SPLC, FAIR, HSM, whatever–and I don’t view YouTube as a credible news source, any more than I think Wikipedia is a reliable reference. YouTube videos are notoriously one-sided (and yes, WHWN, I viewed the entire video). Alanna, I can’t speak for “anti-immigrant groups” or “anti-illegal immigration groups.” I can only speak for myself and my own experiences in living in my community, interacting with and observing people here. So I’m really talking about individuals, the people who actually LIVE with this issues day to day, the only ones who really count, not some talking heads reflecting the cameraperson’s objectives and biases.
Whether anyone likes it or not, groups and individuals on all sides of the illegal-immigration issue have a right to exist and a right to express their views. I would think even libertarian Mackie would stand up for that freedom.
A sovereign nation has a right to control immigration and secure its borders. We can’t take in everyone at once. A solid, fair guest-worker program that helps the economy and benefits communities, not just corporate bottom lines, can come into play AFTER we have secured our borders and figured out a fairer and more reasonable way to allow the people who want to come here and be productive citizens in, and leave the criminals out.
If that makes me a “hate bunny,” I’m not sure what else I can say.
I question the idea of a guest worker program. It’s basically saying to the immigrant ‘You can come to work these dirty jobs, but go home after the job is over and don’t stick around to stink up the place’. We allowed people to immigrate here en mass in the past and set down roots. They struggled and made their lives and their children grew up as Americans and made great contributions. Now we have a chance to create even more Americans who will make even more contributions and we want to throw this opportunity away? Maybe I’m crazy but I think, the more Americans there are in the world, the better (as long as they don’t vote republican, haha). So many people are willing to come here and work the working class jobs, and set down roots, and build their lives, and then we want to repay them by rejecting their children?
Well, Mackie, where would you like an unskilled immigrant to start out, Silicon Valley? Do you want them to be your healthcare provider? They have to start somewhere. I wasn’t suggesting that those people shouldn’t eventually have a fair crack at citizenship. And not everyone who comes here to work intends to stay.
Sigh. You’re picking on me again.
Emma,
Would we deny ourselves the opportunity to be the place where such stories are born:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_xccxLZIGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAtkkgfOnV0&feature=related
Well, no, I would never deny Tom Cruise the opportunity to inflict his bad acting and fake Irish accent upon us so that he can spend $400,000 on his two-year-old in some trendy Beverly Hills boutique.
Emma, you certainly are NOT a Hate Bunny in any posts that I can recall. And the post above that references WHWN was stellar (not that I entirely agree but it was well reasoned and articulate). I coined the term Hate Bunny to connote people who quickly hop on this and other sites and leave behind little droppings of anti-immigrant spin, then hop away again without having read the newspaper article, or watched the video.
On this blog and very often on websites for our local newspapers, I’m forced to scroll down past 8 or 10 Hate Bunny droppings before I find a substantive response to the news article at hand. I just thought it would be handy to have a name for such droppings….
Thanks, WHWN. I appreciate hearing that from you 🙂
WHWN,
“Hate Bunnies”, now that’s real cute. I watched the video before commenting too. You sound like you’re pretty quick to pass judgment. there.imho How do YOU know who has and has not looked at the video?
You need to remember there are some that do live in hard hit neighborhoods. I won’t go into what I may have to deal with. You would just call it hate I feel confident. Please, correct me if I’m wrong on this. You talk about “droppings”. Well, did it ever cross your mind people will post here because even their differing opinion is not in jeopardy of being delted, edited, etc.? It doesn’t do much good if both blogs are a “love fest”. We are all individuals with varying opinions and it’s civilized here.
Mackie,
FYI- I feel a guest worker is a starting point for a path to legal residency/citizenship. I am not saying they should only come here and work temporarily forever. Just think of it as a “stepping stone” of sorts.
Emma, I suppose you do deserve to know where I disagree with your post above (which I praised for being well-reasoned and articulate).
First, putting HSM, FAIR, and the Southern Poverty Law Center in the same sentence is pretty weak, especially if you mean to say that, to you, they represent to equal but opposite extremes. I have a hard time believing an intelligent person could believe such a thing. More likely it’s just a rhetorical tactic designed for less intelligent readers, hoping to discredit the only credible organization among the three (SPLC) by associating them with the others. This to me reveals a bias that seeks to (1) validate FAIR and HSM and (2) invalidate SPLC. I don’t agree with the aim, and I don’t support the tactic.
I also disagree with the stance that says we must secure the borders first, and then attend to human rights violations, the economic crisis, and social unrest that is tearing this country apart. I wouldn’t mind if securing the borders simply meant borrowing 9 billion dollars from China, forcing our grandchildren to repay it, and hiring Haliburton to instant erect 5,000 miles of machine gun guarded walls. As inane as that sounds, we spend 9 billion dollars every month to pay for the war in Iraq, and by ending it, we could afford to secure our borders by diverting a month’s worth of expenditures currently being gobbled up by the very same war profiteers in Iraq.
But I’m afraid it won’t be that easy. I’m not an expert on walls with machine guns, but I’m not sure how realistic it will be to create 5,000 miles of such walls. There are supposed to be new technology being developed, but I am skeptical that a fleet of unmanned planes with spiderman nets or some invisible fence with electric shock would be any more of a deterrent than the blazing hot desert that already claims the lives of countless sojourners as it is.
And who is to decide how secure is secure? And what about our coast lines? What about Hawaii and Alaska? If thousands of non-residents are still able to come to this country by boat 50 years from now, does that mean we’ll still be suffering this humanitarian and economic calamity?
In my view, it’s not walls going up that stand between us and Comprehensive Immigration Reform; it’s walls coming down, and blinders coming off. We need to convince more people that a diverse, multi-cultural America with a booming economy and a growing population is nothing to fear.
Chris, I wasn’t saying there were any Hate Bunny droppings on this thread necessarily. I was trying to prevent them, I guess, by saying “before you type…. ” I welcome thoughtful posts such as the ones you are known to offer, and as I’ve shown in the past, I have great sympathy for those seeking to deal with neighborhood issues. I wish more people would go about it the way you have. I wish our county government had gotten the impression that the community wanted them to deal with those issues. I’m certain that the I-don’t-know-how-many millions of dollars we’ve spent formulating, training, implementing, and repealing the “Probable Cause” policy would have gone a long way toward doing so.
But the Board did not seem to get the message that the community wanted them to deal with neighborhood issues. What they heard loud and clear was, “We want THOSE PEOPLE gone.” Now, after a year of pain, we have less of those people. But the neighborhood issues are far worse than they ever were. And, my sympathy for people who’s neighborhoods are now terrible, is even greater than it was for those people when their neighborhood were bad.
WHWN,
Prevention is a good thing. 😉
I will say over the last year there has been a dramatic improvement in Neighborhood Services. I am not saying it’s perfect. The initial response time is almost cut in half from a year ago. With the number of foreclosures it’s also creating a heavier volume of work and labor intensive. There are houses that are vacant and the bank is not the owner of record yet. So they(inspectors) have to make initial contact with the owner who is often not been at the property for quite sometime.
As for the Board I agree. The heard one thing, and didn’t listen. There’s a big difference in listening and hearing in my book. I wonder now that July is upon us. Is this going to be the final version of the Resolution? Or will they change it again?
I confess–I don’t always watch the videos. They affect me in ways I don’t like, even those from 9500Liberty which I think has done a good job getting the word out about this issue and the players. I don’t know what it is, but with text, I can tune it out more if need be (though I DO get irritated as you know). But I literally cannot listen to some of the talk on these videos without putting up a strong defensive shield first. I don’t like what these things can do to the psyche so I typically prefer not to watch.
Also, my computer is in my family room. The last thing I need my kids hearing is more stuff that will make them feel like they are living in a hateful world. While I believe kids should be educated, I don’t think they need to be inundated with the ugliness that has grown around the immigration debate.
I did see the video and I think if truthful, it is horrible, and every organization that is associated with that root funding source or with the people who have published “ANY” supremacy or privilege, or advantage, or disadvantage due to “numbers” claiming documentation, should immediately remove themselves from that funding list and openly denounce these individuals do not speak for them.
I also have a right and an obligation to argue, that this video does not form a truthful picture if people come away with an asociation in their minds that every organization and every “individual” who is sick and tired of the immigration law not being enforced is immediately to be associated with one of these “nefarious” SPLC declared “Hate groups.” I personally do not believe that every single member in every one of the organizations you mentioned, is a closet “white supremacist”. I certainly am not. I’m agaist any gender, racial, religious, ethnic hate group, and you can teel who they are by simply lookng at the name of the group with race, gender, religion or ethnic group in their “title”, legal documentation and mission statement.
I have seen too many cases where the SPLC has never taken on other hate groups and other hate speech formed by other gender, racial, religious and ethnic hate groups, spewing garbage that the “majority” is the only definable hate group.
I hold SPLC suspect for “why” they have never taken on other prominent hate based groups that equally advocate for “black supremacy”, “latin supremacy”, “asian supremacy”, “indian supremacy”, “female supremacy”, “Muslim supremacy”, “Christian supremacy”, etc. each funded by organizations (And in some cases by the government!!!!) that advocate for the superiority of these groups, the hatred of other groups not a member of their group, and the political wars they fight as they try to pass laws in congress, using political leaders they elected, who think only along those ethnic, gender, racial, and religious group political lines of power.
The proof in this is to look carefully and closely at the SPLC hate list and see if it includes ANY minority groups, gender groups or religious groups.
This is why I so HEAVILY advocate that ALL such groups including “White groups” are hate groups, and that none is any different than any other, if they align along these political lines of power. I HEAVILY advocate that ALL of them should be made “illegal” and prohibited from using any reference to a gender, race, religioun or ethnic group in their mission statement or prohibited from politically advocating for any “law” (including section 8A protected class laws and “diversity policy”) that advantages that group, or does anything other than FIX ANY INEQUITY IN any law that is still biased to advantage or assist any gender, race, religion or ethnic group to have ANY advantage over another, and to speak out openly that ANY comments by these groups that identifies their own supremacy or claim to “racial balancing”, “one of each” concepts, gender, racial, religious, or ethnic group numerical balancing to gain political power or advatage way beyond their “numbers” is not a fair and equitable standard of LAW, based only on charactereistic that have no element or relationship to race, gender, religious or ethnic characteristics, regardless if they are a “minority” group or a “majority” group.
We MUST apply the law fairly and equally to ALL individuals, and that means we cannot apply it to groups or we are guilty of being the very supremacists we hate so much. I see many of you using “language” on both antibvbl.net and bvbl.net that indicates this bias and hatred, while some of you actually are capable of being smart enought to believe in and argue “neutrally” and fairness of the law as the only fair and just way to look at the impact on society and application of political and legal policy and law. It must be neutral or it is a supremacist law, designed to disadvantage one group while advantaging another.
I am seeing more of this being done by “minority” funded groups now, than I see being done by “majority” funded groups now and I think BOTH of them are equally horrible to the same magnitude of this film. This film if cast on Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson, or certain religious or gender group leaders today, would be shown to have origins in the same hate books and saqme hate speeches against the “majority”. I see no difference here in hatred and political action for supremacy and self-segregation and un-equal application of the law favoring one religious, gender, racial or ethnic group over another, other than the identified “target” of the hateful speech is different.
That is why I will firmly stand by the law, that “illegal” immigration is harmful to the US and only “legal” immigration benefits the US and it is blind to gender, race, religion and ethnic group. I have seen and read the statues, regardles of the “un-equal outcomes” makes you mad. None of you can prove to me to me otherwise that these laws are unfair to ANY “individual” and are equally applied to all indifiduals regardless of race, gender, religion and ethnic group. I also will stand firm against ANY ethnic, gender, racial, or religious group trying to pass law to benefit themselves, while hurting ME as an “individual” just because I happen to belong to a “majority” group, and they happen to claim they have a different “number” of people in their group that deserve more than I do because of an imbalance in “numbers”. To ME that is hate speech and discrimmination because I’m not being measured “individual” against “individual” and that is what the LAW of the land says is the ONLY fair and just measurement of Equality, i.e the fairness of the law applied ONLY betwen any two “individuals” regardless of race, gender, religion or ethnic group.
YES I’m upset by this VIDEO!!!! and I’m equally upset by any other racial, gender, religious, or ethnic groups that use the same tactics and say the same thing only about the “majority” and about me as an “individual”!!!!. I demand the law protect ME as much as I demand the law protect YOU against these racial, gender, religious and ethnic hate groups of all kinds now in our political infrastructure and society.
Michael, I am curious what you think is “hate speech.” We seen the examples taken from BVBL et al, but in the context you are citing, what actual words are examples of your definition? Can you give us a brief list? I’m asking because usage, context, denotation and connotation greatly interest me and I think it’s all pertinent to discussion on what and what does not constitute hate speech.
“We HAVE seen” that is.
If you go to the site, you will see the SPLC does not include ANY minority supremacy groups in their hate list. A blatant fact that they are a biased hate organization themselves.
Can you give us a brief list of what you consider hate speech? Be specific.
Michael:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKZFxW4pvIo
That would mean the end of the anti-immigrant movement Michael.
What else is our current immigration law if not one huge law meant to disadvantage one group (hispanic immigrants) while advantaging another. WOW! it’s amazing that you miss this mack truck sized hole in your argument. Then bigots like FAIR use the law to keep out hispanics and say ‘Hey everyone, we’re not being bigots, we’re just upholding the law’.
We all care about the law. But victimless crimes are oxymorons invented by bureaucrats who need a reason to justify their non-jobs. If there is no victim then there is no crime. Capeesh!? Mama Mia! Violating Immigration law is a victimless crime. No one is hurt. In fact, our economy benefits. Therefore the problem is immigration law and the fact that it is out of touch with reality.
Read the Libertarian Party’s position. They’ve got the best position I’ve read so far.
http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration
Michael, it took me less than 30 seconds to find this:
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp#s=DC
The Southern Poverty Law Center has identified 8 hate groups in nearby Washington DC. Three of them are categorized as Black Separatist. I did not research any further, but my intuition tells me that most of the members are non-white.
Chris, thank you for what you are doing. Do you know if it costs more money for Neighborhood Services to respond more readily? If so, where are the funds coming from?
KG if you accuse me of something I have not done as an individual and you elevate the level of dialog to where you call me a bad name, “jerk, wigger, slimebag, cheapskate, Homo, asshole, or misoginist, controller, bully, or “animal” when I am not, simply because you don’t like how I conduct my life as a male, and simply because I tell you to respect my interests and needs as much as you demand I respect yours, or claim that I have wronged you financialy because your “class” does not have the same “racial” or gender numbers mine does and you deserve to have more of your numbers represented, or that I must ALWAYS pay the bill because I am male, that you deserve the KIDS in a divorce because you are female, that if you are the husband and I am the wife, you should be the one buying me the car or the most expensive wedding ring because my gender deserves it more than yours, that I have in some way applied law to you unfairly when you look at my “class” and your pay is not greater than mine or your numbers are not represented more than my numbers on the same pay scale for the same work, because you simply “chose” to do a different type of work I do, or “chose” not to work at all, when you call me white trash, red-neck, homey, label my sport as “for men only” or your’s “for women only”, when you refuse to go to the same gym that I do because my male body makes you feel “icky”, or that everytime I look at you I’m only interested in SEX, because I’m a man and all men are only interested in sex, when you represent my gender on TV as the stupid sex, when my gender is represented on the TV as the “dumber” gender, when only “you” are smart enough or qualified enough to raise a baby, when only a “woman” can make the best decision about “womens” issues, childrens educational issues, women’s medicine or women’s rights, because a man is not as smart as you are on these issues, when the only medical advertisement sign on the road advocates for “knees designed just for women”, or Heart Surgeons just for women implying that you are above doing heart surgery for men, or funding for breast cancer, or uterine cancer is more important that equal funding for prostate cancer because only men get prostate cancer and their lives are not as important as yours, that your daughter should not be sent to war to die along side my son, because her life is more important than my son’s life in protecting both of our freedoms, that if the titanic sank, only women and children would be allowed off the boat first because the lives of the men on board are not as important as the lives of the women on board, and they are the only ones that will make the best parent for a “fatherless” child, “that certain cars need to be designed “only for Black people, or that certain ethnic groups relish in calling people “homies” or “Whitey”, or “anglos” or “gringos” and that is socially acceptable because they are the “minority”. That only your culture deserves to live in southern California and your culture is the only culture that matters in the immigration application of law, i.e only advantages or ignoring the law should be applied to spanish people instead of all the other “illegal” ethnic groups also breaking the law, or your boss who is a member of one of these genders, races, religions or ethnic groups, hires ONLY black, Spanish, Ethopian, Muslim, Indian, or women into a job position matching only his or her culture, rather than selecting by skill and performance, or you need to create Black TV just for you because “regular” TV (secretly labeld as “white TV”), is not good enough for you because it does not talk about political issues you want advantage for, does not show your superority in comedy, theater, sports or “dialog” as better than the “other” TV, or that just your race or ethnic group deserves some federal goverment funding, that you get this funding because you form a Sectin 8A group, or create a web site helpling people only of your gender, race, religion or ethnic group to get a better job, or you create a concept called diversity only so your numbers will have advantage over the “majority” because you are a member of a special gender, racial, religious or ethnic group, or that your your TV show, or real estate company or landscaping company or resturant hires only HISPANIC people, or spanish speaking people, or THAI people and not all people the same based on skill or performance, that we as “whatever ethnic group, need to get out and vote to help the “brotha” or the “sista”, or that only Christians need to be attacked for their religious principals, put down politically for their christian principals and that “black” churchs are the only church you should go to if you are black, because a “white church is just not your “culture”, or that your children should only go to a “massadra” school because the “white school” is not good enough for them, and they are to be taught to “hate” white people, christians and jews, and that they should revolt and declare their “religion” the only true religion and force everyone to follow “sharia law”, or put two standards of law in place, because the “white” law is not good enough for you, and that every one else is an “infadel” deserving to be killed by a terrorist martyer, or that your MUSLIM group in your rally in Fairfax, VA should take radical police or military action because you are MUSLIM and your faith needs to dominate the planet.
BY EVERY measure of the standard of law and social concept of “supremacy hatred” I call these concepts “HATE SPEECH”.
Want me to find some more, I have hundreds of examples of such hatred for others not exactly like your specific gender, racial, religious or ethnic hate group to which you belong. Or are you actually “blind” that any of the above is offensive and hateful to others as an “individual”.
WHYN, then you did not look at the entire list, I did, it is 99% white supremacy group labeling.
No mackie it would not man the end of the “illegal” immigrant movement. That one is sanctioned by law, even if you don’t like it.
Mackie you see disadvantage by counting only numbers of people who have “broken” the law, and saying just because more hispanic people have decided as “individuals” to break the law, then the law is not applied equally to Ethiopians, Australians, Iranians, Indians, Irish, etc. Just look at the recent “deportation list” and you will find representation from ALL ethnic, gender, religious and ethnic groups, it just happens that more people from certain countries have decided to come here than others illegally. You think that is discrimmination of the law, it is not. The law discrimminats only on “illegality”. Your argument is flawed.
The law is being applied as a “standard” in illegal immigration, only against “illegals”. That is not ethnic group discrimmination. Again I say your facts and arguments are flawed.
Michael, you said:
So, I pointed out three exceptions to the rule you laid down. Do you want me to now check to see if your “99 percent” claim is correct? I did check Virginia, and yes, the majority of the hate groups in Virginia … Nazis, White Nationalists, and KKK groups … sound as if their membership is probably white.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp#s=VA
But then again, aren’t you assuming a little too much when you use this list as the basis for your argument that the Southern Poverty Law Center exists solely to pick on white people?
You yourself have said that not every member of F.A.I.R. is a racist or anti-immigrant person. I agree. But why do you have to take offense, on behalf of the white people of America, when you see a list that includes the KKK, White Nationalists, and the KKK?
Wouldn’t it be fair to say that the SPLC is objecting to the philosophies of those groups and not their skin color? Why do you take it upon yourself to get offended on behalf of these groups? What makes you think you can turn other whites against SPLC by pointing out that the members of groups like the KKK are mostly white? We know that! But it doesn’t affect us because we know that we are not KKK members, so anyone who opposes the KKK is not, therefore, necessarily our enemy.
Michael:
No Michael, your argument is myopic and shortsighted. You believe that justice begins the moment that the ink dries on a law. I believe that justice is not constrained by the feeble vehicle called the law. And I recognize that the law is easily a tool for tyranny. You, Michael, are flawed. You have never found the law used unjustifiably against you. One day, the sooner the better, you will come to know the truth.
In fact isn’t that what you’ve been railing about here. How evil it is that ethnic groups would write the law that suits them at the expense of other groups. Well, the truth Michael, that you continue to deny or won’t address is that the dominant ethnic group in our country, the white group, has been writing laws to suit itself since the founding of our country. All the progress in civil rights has been in defiance of these laws and the immigration battle is no different.
Mackie violating ilmmigration law is a crime with a victim, the victim is every person, every individual, in cluding me who is affected adversely by the “illegal” behavior of that lawbreaker. “illegal” immigration has many, many adverse effects on these victims, including death. You my dear friend are the one who does not “get it”.
Mackie the law has not been written by only white people, how silly that concept is. Todays law has ben written by people of many backgrounds and written entirely to be fair to all. You just refuse to believe a “law” or any kind can be just that doesn’t serve your argumentative purposes. That is the flaw in your argument, that the law id used against you unfairly. YES there are rare exceptions, the law is not perfect in execution, but the law is nevertheless just and decided by many of many backgrounds. You have a non-justified and unprovable concept, that you cannot base on fact. I can show you fact where the law is written and upheld by senators and congressmen and women of many backgrounds ans law enforcement people of many backgrounds, not just the “white people you hate”. Your hate shows through your argument.
I don’t take offense to the list WHWN, I demand it be expanded if the SPLC is not to be a hate group just like the ones they rail agaist, to include ALL hate groups. There are significant numbers of hate groups in the minorty groups too, in fact as many or more than in the “majority” group. I’m calling them in their own hatred and discrimminatory bias. ALL hate groups should be on that list, and until they do that they are no better than any other hate group.
Michael,
Respectfully, the 7 million plus illegal immigrants that are now legal residents and Citizens of this Country might disagree with your assumption that they are having adverse effects on their Country. Take for example, the first soldier killed while serving in Iraq, a former illegal alien. Additionally, I know personally a family with 3 sons and a father all now US Citiznes serving in Iraq that were at one time undocumented (illegal) aliens. So, apparently you have also benefited from illegal aliens as they are now defending you!
Mackie your post at 23:34 is outstanding.
Meanwhile, Mackie has spiraled a long way from:
Woops, I meant MICHAEL has spiraled a long way from: