Being that I believe our focus on illegal immigration takes us away, as a nation, from more serious crisis’, I thought this article was very appropriate. The full article can be found here: http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/column?oid=oid:356664
Page Two: The Politics of Distraction
In the face of failure at home and abroad, the right turns on immigrants
BY LOUIS BLACKImagine a modern Rip Van Winkle, someone who, a year and a half to two years back, had sunk into a deep sleep. Now, months later, RVW awakens and turns on the television news to see what he’s missed. The current, news-dominating debate over illegal immigrants and immigration comes as a surprise.
Certainly, immigration is and has been a major issue. But what about Iraq, al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden (has he been caught?), Social Security reform, national security, tax-cutting budget balancing, AIDS in Africa, spreading democracy, and battling the axis of evil, as well as reactionary political and social reform?The intensity and sense of urgency around the immigration discussion seems disproportionately overwhelming. Even if you have been awake, but just not paying much attention, this ferocity is disconcerting. What catastrophic incident has caused this issue to be moved to the front burner, with the maximum possible heat?
Have terrorists been caught crossing our southern border? Has the drain of that population bankrupted and shredded our already shrinking, ever more flimsy social safety net? Have illegal immigrants gone on a Days of Rage-style urban rampage, leaving cities aflame? Are their numbers reaching epidemic proportions?
Some would say “yes” to all of those. They claim that illegal immigrants are “invading” the U.S., parasitically devouring public-education and health-service funds with the intent of subverting and destroying Western civilization and the American lifestyle.
Illegal immigration is a complex issue, one for which with any kind of movement is almost impossible because of the intensely concerned constituencies’ radically different agendas. Yet those opposed to open borders offer only easy answers: Implement strict border enforcement and build a wall between the U.S. and Mexico now. Drive those already here home by denying them employment (by outrageously fining any American employer hiring them), education, driver’s licenses, and any public services. Concurrently, round them up to send them back home, with no possibility of returning.
There are any number of logical refutations of the above positions. It is estimated that illegal workers contribute about $10 billion to Social Security that they never collect, though they cost about $2.2 billion a year in government health services. They are crucial to the marketplace’s filling many low-level labor and service jobs Americans won’t. (Note: This is not to argue that there are no Americans who will take these jobs or even that they won’t take them at the same pay. Those are straw-man arguments – there is not a large enough American work force to do the jobs, especially at prevailing wages.) But even this brief discussion dignifies the current immigration debate.
If our Rip Winkle, a mere 18 months earlier, watched the FOX network or listened to talk radio, Iraq was overwhelmingly the predominant topic. In so many ways, it validated all of those attitudes: how right the U.S. was to be in Iraq, and how successful the occupation, as we brought democracy to the Iraqis. At the same time, this country had returned to our rightful place as the sole, dominant national power of the modern world. Democrats (read: leftists/communists/socialists/suicidal pacifists) and other anti-war activists had been proven wrong, exposed as America-haters, racists, cowards, and impractical dreamers who wanted to embrace the terrorists rather than destroy them.
Now, this might seem cheap and too convenient – a neo-leftist, misguided attempt to shift the debate away from the real problem – but, right now, go turn on talk radio. Illegal immigration is the dominant, and almost only, topic. The invasion of the country and corruption of American civilization is lamented. Americans, especially our elected leaders, are chastised for doing nothing. For the part of our population that is dependent on easy answers and needs an identifiable enemy to hate, illegal immigration is the new Iraq.
This issue certainly fits the bill, not only providing an outside “enemy,” but allowing an attack on clueless, apathetic (if not traitorous) citizens (read: liberal Democrat, anti-American, anti-moral-values, communist, socialist, fifth columnists). There are no problems that can’t be solved by attacking other Americans.
Illegal immigration is not a major problem facing the United States, though it is of genuine and contradictory concerns. The reason for its prominence is a need for enemies on the part of those who vow undying love to this country while evidencing not even limited affection for its principles.
This is 1984. Turn on talk radio. You will hear endless gibberish about illegal immigration. Iraq will be hardly mentioned, if at all. Socialist George Orwell saw this coming, as right-wing America still does not. The response to terrorism can’t be terrorism; the response to fascism can’t be fascism; and the response to anti-American rhetoric and values can’t be the destruction of the Constitution.
This is complete nonsense divorced from reality. The truth is this : they are using Iraq and this ostensible, endless “war on terrorism” to distract attention from both parties’ support for illegal immigration and “globalization” i.e. continued wage lowering in the U.S.
Both parties are in unanimity about this.
This article has it 180 degrees wrong and I agree with Rick Bently’s comment. Illegal immigration is the single most important issue facing this country and will tear us apart and bankrupt us morally, economically and spiritually if we don’t shut it down and remove those illegals here. Illegal immigration is not a single issue topic. It pervades every portion of society from the state of the economy to gas prices to infrastructure costs to employment and wage depression to crime and taxes spent on social services including education and health care. There is not one segment of society that is not touched by illegal immigration.
After careful review, anyone with a even a modicum of logic can come to no other conclusion: illegal immigration must be halted, illegal immigrants here now must be deported and legal immigration needs decreased from the approx. 2 million allowed in per year currently.
Please review the following report on the FISCAL COST OF IMMIGRATION by economist Edwin Rubenstein released in April 2008:
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf
A partial summary of the report:
The impact on 15 Federal Departments surveyed was: $346 billion in fiscal related costs in FY 2007.
Each immigrant cost taxpayers more than $9,000 per year.
An immigrant household (2 adults, 2 children) cost taxpayers $36,000 per year.
Legal immigrants were not separated out from illegal immigrants for the fiscal impact study, but if they had been, the fiscal cost per ILLEGAL immigrant would be even more shocking than the figures quoted above.
The most extensive and authoritative study, prior to economist Edwin Rubenstein’s “The Fiscal Impact of Immigration” (April 2008) , is the National Research Council (NRC)’s The New Americans: Economic, Demographic and Fiscal Effects of Immigration (1997).
The NRC staff analyzed federal, state, and local government expenditures on programs such as Medicaid, AFDC (now TANF), and SSI, as well as the cost of educating immigrants’ foreign- and native-born children.
NRC found that the average immigrant household receives $13,326 in federal annual expenditures and pays $10,664 in federal taxes—that is, they generate a fiscal deficit of $2,682 (1996 dollars)per household.
In 2007 dollars this is a deficit of $3,408 per immigrant household.
With 9 million households currently headed by immigrants, more than $30 billion ($3,408 x 9 million) of the federal deficit represents money transferred from native taxpayers to immigrants.
Our national immigration policies have to work for the United States. While improving the plight of the world’s poor is a laudable goal, the finite resources we have available to fulfill that goal would be swamped if there wasn’t some orderly and manageable system in place to limit entry into the United States to what this nation can actually support. The more illegal aliens that are permitted to subvert the immigration system, the fewer immigrants we can accommodate who might actually produce a positive benefit for our country.
The more we become a nation of illegal immigrants, the deeper we fall into anarchy.
Good article Elena. Too much social perspective for my Myers Briggs but the essance of it is clear when you get beyond simple reaction.
Writer hit the nail on the head regarding people wanting simple solutions and a clear target. These are the folks I mentioned un another post that are a greedy politicians dream.
Rhetoric and sensationalism are used to make things simple and identifiable. Ergo “Inside Edition” and. “USA Today”.
Perhaps it’s time for a large scale boycott du jour of the products advertised on the biggest haters’ (Lou Dobbs, for example) shows… you know, one of those tactics the rightwing nuts love so much. Dobbs could become the equivalent of Tinky-Wink.
To any thinking person it should seem obvious that illegal immigration has taken the place of gay marriage and guns in this year’s election cycle. The Republicans need to kick their “hating” faction to the curb if they expect to remain a viable party. Their moderates have shown the ability to work with bi-partisanly. The wingnuts contribute little other than vitriol and an agenda of hate.
Don’t believe gay marriage has been removed from the list of major concerns of the Dobson group yet. Get rid of that and illegals and PRESTO all our economic woes are over.
😉
Iraq hardly mentioned?
If you’re lstening to our candidates they say “amnesty” then immediately change the subject to Iraq. Unless they’re addressing a La Raza convention, that is.
You hear about the illegal invasion through talk radio, Lou Dobbs, and the internet because MSM is afraid to talk about it.
Disagree. NYT has almost an article a day on illegals usually beginning on pg 1. They focus on economics and responsibility being dumped on locals and the cost to locals.
That patchwork of local/state laws will more than likely be the cause of the Fed’s having to enact immigration reform. A person should expect uniformity of federal law.
I believe that is the pressure some media outlets are applying.
Welcome Zeb Arrow,
Did you know that Rubenstein is contributor to the Social Contract Press, which is owned and opererated by John Tanton, founder of FAIR, et al? We are talking about illegal immigration, but you clearly believe that this is issue is about immigration and population control if you believe what Rubenstein espouses. Are you a Native American Zeb? If not, we are all children of immigrants, and I wonder how you reconcile your own history with this new trend of being anti immigrant?
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/events/press_conf_2008apr08_video.html
What is wrong with enforcing the immigration laws we already have? Is it because they do not include any form of amnesty that people don’t want them enforced? If we can’t/won’t enforce the laws we already have, why would anyone think we could enforce new ones?
Simple, illegalisILLEGAL. The current situation helps the rich to get richer, because it drives wages down in the US. Hence our politicians, who represent wealthy interests which pay them – we pay them a pittance by comparison – are content with this status quo and fight for it. Unless and until we really raise hell over this issue, we get screwed.
A vote for McCain or for Obama is a vote for this status quo.
MYTH #1: Enforcement-only policies are a practical solution to the problem of undocumented immigration.
FACTS: Policies geared only towards “sealing the border” or deporting the undocumented without reforming the immigration system and providing a path to legal status for undocumented immigrants already in the country would cost the nation hundreds of billions of dollars and have a devastating impact on vast swaths of the U.S. economy.
A 2005 study from the Center for American Progress (CAP) estimates that it would cost between $206 billion and $230 billion over five years to deport all undocumented immigrants from the United States. Moreover, in a 2006 study, CAP calculates that removing all undocumented immigrants from the U.S. labor force would result in a shortfall of nearly 2.5 million less-skilled workers.
As a 2006 report from the Pew Hispanic Center notes, there were 14.6 million people in families headed by undocumented immigrants as of March 2005, including 3.1 million U.S.-citizen children and 1.8 million undocumented children, as well as adult family members who are legally present in the United States. Attempting to deport all undocumented immigrants would therefore disrupt entire families and communities and decimate industries that depend heavily on immigrant workers, both legal and undocumented.
The Pew report also estimates that the 7.2 million workers among the 11.5 undocumented immigrants in the United States as of March 2005-while accounting for 4.9 percent of the labor force as a whole-comprised 24 percent of all workers in farming, fishing, and forestry; 17 percent in building and grounds cleaning and maintenance; 14 percent in construction; 12 percent in food preparation and serving; and 9 percent in production occupations. Mass deportations therefore would have a devastating effect on numerous industries, particularly given the small and shrinking number of younger native-born workers available to fill these kinds of less-skilled jobs.
BULL. Though you’re right that “sealing the border” is a red herring – something undoable that right-wing leaders are selling to their constituents to pretend they’re doing something. (It’s still worth making it harder to get in and providing a border though, given the current catastrophe).
When we reach the point where we are willing to make life uncomfortable enough for illegals, they will leave. There are lots of ways to do that short of hitting them with baseball bats as happens in many countries. Um, stop giving them access to free taxpayer-funded medical care. Reinterpret the 14th Amendment so they don’t have incentive to have kids here. Stop giving free taxpayer-funded schooling to their kids. Raid illegal work sites and detain illegal aliens and their employers. Place them in cells at least as crowded as the flophouses they live in. Treat this crime like a crime. It’s a crime against wage equality, a crime against any pretense that we have a war on poverty. It’s a crime that enables robber barons in Mexico and in the US to grow richer and the middle and lower classes to fall further behind.
Alternately, treat them better than you treat our own poor and create special rights for them, and provide incentive for the other 80% of Mexico to come here next, and see to it that the US becomes overpopulated and swelling with poor people, tearing away the social safety net we created for our own citizens.
Alternately, if you believe in anarchy, let’s start granting American citizens Amnesty for crimes like identity fraud, tax evasion, etc. and let us start walking away from car crashes and so forth, and pay taxes if and when we feel like it. And of course relax all zoning ordinances at the renter’s discretion.
You know for all our efforts to keep people out of our country, your making it more difficult for people to leave the country! It used to be an American could travel about the world and get some respect, now that the past administration has ruined our image and economy, American migrant workers like me are finding that international companies are less inclined to hire Americans because we cause way too many problems.
Look at South Korea, They are having massive protest over importing beef from the U.S. They don’t want our business! no one does. The only reason Arabs use us to drill for oil in their countries is because we will F*&ing kill them all if they don’t, but now with our unstable economy, it’s easier for the Saudi’s to do business with China or Russia. All these BS efforts to “Secure our Border” are driving us into isolation. Ironically, if we follow this Tancredo line of blocking all immigrants then we will block all trade as well. A self made embargo, a drive to become a third world nation all for the sake of “Patriotism!”
If that’s the future your looking for, a future of self sustaining isolationism then your asking for a civil war, but I get the feeling that deep down inside, that’s exactly what the “Minutemen” crowd wants, a total decision manifest through shootouts on the street. Survival of the fitest, a Mass Clenzing of the “Liberal Scum” and the vindication of the Rightious Patriots.
Serve your country in her suicide!
Cry me a river. I think we need to worry about America first. Don’t count on the South Koreans or the Chinese to worry about our futures. Things clearly not in our interests shouldn’t be allowed just to make it a little easier for you go suck dollars (or whtever currency) somewhere else.
Blocking a little bit more trade is not at all a bad idea. We’re nowhere near “isolationism”. Closer to a constant selling out of birthrights for short-term profit.
It seems to me that the biggest whiners about illegal immigration are those who are marginal themselves. You don’t really hear people continually harping on the subject who are firmly entrenched in the middle class.
Birthrights?! What God entitled you to have and others to have not just because you were born in America?
The world owes you NOTHING Rick, The sacrifices at Normandy have been repaid, and now we are the ones in Debt. If you want respect you’ll have to earn it in the world, milking off the sacrifices of our Fathers is not the way.
I’m sure this happens in most hospitals where there is a problem with illegal immigrants. They are costing taxpayers money.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI&eurl=http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=6587
rod2155, Put your feet up and have a beer.
I noticed that the world owes me nothing. But as to whether the Average American deserves any privileges or not … four arguements …
1. Our ancestors made SIGNIFICANT sacrifices in wars, for the sake of their descendants – they didn’t fight in WW2 and in Desert Storm and other places so that their descendants would be displaced by the lowest bidder and so that the rich in Mexico could laugh all the way to the bank while they encourage their poor to work here and send money home.
2. A lot of blood and sacrifice went into the battles labor undertook in this country for fair wages, and to see it undermined by the ruling class just choosing not to enforce the law is something I’m surprised is happening without a fight.
3. This is supposed to be a representative democracy and our leaders are supposed to uphold the laws they pass … not ignore them for the sake of their rich friends’ continued benefit.
4. We are in a dominant position in part because of sacrifices made, tax dollars invested in Defense, etc. for the sake of this country and again I say it should not be given away without a fair vote.
“rod2155, Put your feet up and have a beer.”
I don’t drink, I find it saves me money and dignity.
Rick, I do not deny the sacrifice our forefathers made so that we could live a better life, but it’s this insane re-defining of “Better Life” that truily makes some of us a very arrogant and undeserving lot.
At one time it was worth laying your life on the line for one car in every garrage and two chickens in every pot, but now everyone feels they are owed two Hummers to every three car garage and a house big enough that your genetically perfected child can get lost playing hide and seek. Where the prime goal is to get as much money as possible in what ever way you can.
Those Rich in Mexico you were talking about, they woulden’t happen to be the ones heading up the Mexican Divisions of American Companies? The ones that produce the expensive clothes and shoes we wear yet won’t pay their workers enough money to live on so they are easily lured by other businesses here to come across the border.
We either need to be serious about internal reform, or we need to step asside and let the evolution take it’s course. All these global problems are the fruit of unchecked Capitalism a trend started by us in our fervent crusade against communism has esculated out of control and has become the instrument of our doom. In the confusion to point the blame, poor Mexicans are just convieniently there for you, but ultimatly we are reciving the punishment for the actions of the same small league of people who have been in secluded orbs of power since the Nixon Administration.
All you have to do is follow the money…
You know, maybe Firedancer is right. I said it better than this person IMHO.
I grabbed this from the Anti-Immigrant Legacy thread:
My theory when I decided to represent myself as “Why Here Why Now” was that the Iraq War (not the other war) was the WHAT we were supposed to be distracted from. Now I’ll explain the “why.”
During 2005 and 2006, Americans began to realize that the occupation of Iraq was a grave error of historic proportions. We began to understand that the justifications we were given were exaggerated and/or fabricated by the Bush administration. Hurricane Katrina taught us to look upon the President’s word with skepticism. (It was during this period that the American people learned to question the White House, its talking points, and its media subsidiaries on talk radio and cable news. This caused us to look at the Iraq war propaganda with skepticism as well. From that point on, the same old spin about Iraq was no longer doing the trick.)
There were some, like our former Senator George Allen, who clung to the 2004 and 2002 election strategy, cheering on the Iraq war and accusing anyone who did not do so of being unpatriotic, even insisting that there were indeed weapons of mass destruction waiting on balsa wood planes to been floated across the ocean and into American cities. During the 2006 mid-term elections, the leaders of the party such as Karl Rove and Dick Cheney were saying “stick with me,” the Iraq War will carry us to victory as it did in 2004 and 2002.
After the defeats that came that November, there were two groups who decided to defy the party leadership, and fend for themselves. One group was the strict partisans, who cared for nothing more than winning elections and staying in power. The other group was the Anti-Immigrant Lobby, made up of John Tanton disciples and employees at F.A.I.R. and their various front groups and subsidiaries, as well as the ugly stepchild of the Republican party: those who fell prey to Richard Nixon’s “Southern Strategy” and base their loyalty to the GOP on some sort of white pride or an idea of protecting white power. Up until the 2006 election, these elements of the party could be ignored and swept under the rug. They certainly weren’t going to defect to the Democratic party, so there was no need to even talk about, let alone implement, any of the policies that, for instance, F.A.I.R. had been screaming about since the 1970’s.
But all of the sudden, the anti-immigrant faction (for want of a better word) was able to join forces with the strict partisan faction, and threaten to overthrow the more practical and more honorable side of the party. When President Bush stood up for the McCain/Kennedy Comprehensive Immigration reform bill (and stupidly accused opponents of being racists), this strict partisans saw just the opportunity they needed to separate themselves from an increasingly unpopular President, and appeal to the most organized and most enthusiastic base yet remaining in the party: the anti-immigrant lobby.
If you look at the big picture, there is a direct correlation between the approval rating of the President and popular support for the occupation of Iraq (both of which were going down) and the amount of news coverage and mass distributed talking points dealing with this new “crisis” known as “Illegal Immigration.” Think about it. When the Iraq War was a necessary preemptive strike to protect us from the same terrorists who perpetrated 9/11, there was no talk of an “Illegal Immigration crisis.” Gradually, the seesaw shifted, until today, the Republican news programs and radio shows spend more time talking about our manufactured domestic culture war than they do about the REAL wars causing real death and real destruction every day.
During the Republican primary, it looked for all the world like this new coalition of strict partisans and the anti-immigrant lobby would seize control of the party and win the nomination. Mitt Romney seemed to be the empty suit strict partisan they needed who would take on the anti-immigrant mantle if it would help him achieve his ambition and keep the Republicans in the White House. But then along came John McCain, and with him, the conscience of the Republican party, and of the American people. Simply, we had progressed to far to allow hate and hysteria to blind us to the common good.
Ever since New Hampshire, when McCain became the immovable object , this seemingly irresistible force that was the Anti-immigrant Lobby began to peter out. The strict partisans abandoned them for a more reliable, more forward thinking strategy. It was back to plan A. Iraq. Militarism. Patriotism. Meld the three, and we have not only preserved our slight chances of maintaining power, we have also maintained our integrity.
Louis Black is a comedian. He’s also a loud mouth blow-hard who makes a living playing the angry guy for laughs. What he isn’t is some deep thinker who should influence our thinking.
Ed,
Nice ad hominen argument except there is more than one Louis Black. The guy that wrote this opinion piece happens to be the editor of the Austin Chronicle. I know guy whose name is Michael Jackson. He can’t even dance.
But nevertheless whether he’s a comedian or a Preparation H salesman, suggesting that the immigration issue is a manufactured political ploy to distract voters from other pressing issues is misguided. The popularity of the immigration issue (or the anti-immigration issue) is a result of both hate and ignorance.
The guy who invented the 1st Qtr INS/FBI report email made up a bunch of factoids and spread them around in emails. Cosman intentionally misled people with the leprosy, kawasaki disease and TB lies. Ed Rubenstein routinely produces lies (his most recent report states that illegal aliens are eligible for the earned income credit). Steve King with his 25 Americans killed per day by illegal aliens lie. These people are evil.
The people that believe these lies without verifying. These are ignorant.
I would say Ed’s comment @ 16:53
“What he isn’t is some deep thinker who should influence our thinking.”
and the argument of El Guapo @ 20:13
“The people that believe these lies without verifying. These are ignorant”
SAYS IT ALL!
I ask that everyone go back and PROVE your SELF right! How hard of a task that would be, if it did not involve PRIDE? 🙂
Not a sermon, just MORE than a thought…..the next step 🙂
Madame Moho
The economic (class) war is underway.
.
Juturna,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMMLqmLaBNY
So Rod, isn’t it worth trying to give our lower-class citizens some opportunity other than to ask them to compete with and assimilate with the underclass of every Central and South American nation?
Hold-up Rick,
Americans shouldn’t be afraid of competing, as long as it’s a fair playing field. And it’s not just our unskilled workers that need to compete but our highly skilled workers as well. It’s a careful balancing act that I believe should be adjusted regularly but the fact of the matter the federal government has not done a good job in this respect either.
We do have had a demand for unskilled labor. Have we been flooded with unskilled labor? I don’t believe so. I’m convinced teenagers have probably had a harder time filling the fast food jobs, and certainly construction industries have experienced the same. However, if all the undocumented left we would have a severe labor shortage. Some might claim well then wages would have to increase which would benefit American workers but if 8% of our workforce disappeared tomorrow, the 5% of unemployed people couldn’t fill all those jobs even if they wanted to. I suppose we could slowly squeeze them out through attrition and then increase legal immigration numbers to account for any losses but I don’t believe that is the best alternative.
Alanna, we don’t need to be “scared” but we SHOULD make some effort to take care of our own – as every other nation on the face of the Earth does (save a few dictatorships).
Your second paragraph is quite reasonable, but here’s a related point that means a lot to me. We cannot, should not, must not let the rich choose not to enforce US law and choose to abandon our lower-class citizens, using humanitarianism as a pretext. The lack of honor and dignity on display (and the potential for America to split into castes) is more important and unsettling than any potential short-term economic turmoil. And, how can/could we ONCE AGAIN choose to reward people for lawbreaking, and give them any advantage over those who wait for legal entry?
At some point the doors have to close, at some point some or all of the lawbreakers have to be tossed out (I believe). At what point would you do that, and how would you do it?
“At some point the doors have to close, at some point some or all of the lawbreakers have to be tossed out (I believe). At what point would you do that, and how would you do it?”
Our laws are virtual and followed on a voulentary basis and are backed up by threat of force. When the majority of people see no compulsion to follow senseless laws, then the law is void. It is ultimatly the people who determine law, not a peice of paper or a book which can easily be burned. Are you so sure that you have enough manpower to mandate the borders be shut? Do you have a majority? if you do, why is there no canidate representing your isolationist vision running for presidential office? Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe, just maybe, you are fighting against the will of the people and inspite of what you may define as good intentions, they don’t care.
The only way to truily seal off the border is to build a huge force of arms to monitor the perimator and Kill, repete, KILL anyone who tries to cross, it is the only way to show we don’t wan’t anyone coming in. But that type of wall is a doubble edged sword, it stops Americans from leaving, it stops trade with our neighbors. The weather is changing, if our internal crop structure fails and we need international aid, do you think it will be delivered to our closed society? The world is becoming more and more fed up with us. IF Obama or McCain is elected by a majority and they decide to initiate a Pan American Union would you submit or would you revolt? Do you have enough people on your side to succede from the “New USA” and maintain through force of arms “The good’ol USA?” You don’t, it will be like the Second Alamo and it will be forgoten much quicker than the first.
Believe me, I hate Globalized Capitalism, but right now a global recession is exposing it’s evils to the people of the world, and many a government will reform. But to go to the lengths of total world isolation and to close off our bordering neighbors is asking for disaster. One day we may need help, our blessings are by no means mandated. The West and East have traded off the asscent of man throughout human existance.
“Birthrights?! What God entitled you to have and others to have not just because you were born in America? ”
Funny, since when illegal immigrants have children in the US that are citizens, the pro-illegal immigrant supports start crying about “they have the RIGHT to be here!” Stop twisting to fit what you want.
“The world owes you NOTHING ”
That’s right – and we don’t owe people that choose to remain here illegally anything, either.
That’s right – and we don’t owe people that choose to remain here illegally anything, either.”
Your correct You Wish, “YOU” don’t owe anything, so when the majority of people in the U.S. wish to “GIVE” them something, then you need to shut up and let the majority do what it thinks is best. If you don’t like our charitable nature, then succede!
No more soft gloves, I’m fighting against this mob riot against the poor. If people are going to deny my right to help the poor off my own means, you have something else comming!
“When the majority of people see no compulsion to follow senseless laws, then the law is void. It is ultimatly the people who determine law, not a peice of paper or a book which can easily be burned. Are you so sure that you have enough manpower to mandate the borders be shut? Do you have a majority? if you do, why is there no canidate representing your isolationist vision running for presidential office? ”
Yes I represent majority view. I disagree with the majority of my countrymen about the relative priority of the issue, not about whether to reward lawbreaking and whether to grant another amnesty. Why does neither party care enough to represent majority viewpoint? Well this I rant and rave about all the time. The two parties spend time and money trying to falsely define the debate and to bamboozle the American people. But by all accounts the tide is turning. Yeah we’ll be stuck with Obama or McCain. But just watch what happens if and when they move near this third rail of Amnesty. This is a defining issue, much more than stem-cell research or gay service in the military (issues that defined Bush and Clinton early on). Watch them get fried on it. Watch Obama’s mythical health care reform die on the vine when people realize 40% of the chronically uninsured are illegal aliens. Watch as the tide continues to turn on this issue. The elitists – Bush, McCain, Kennedy – knew that 2007 was the last best gasp for Amnesty, it’s dead now.
You say you hate globalized capitalism? You might as well say you hate needing air to breath or hate the sky being blue. The trick is to enforce laws that minimize pain and suffering.
Our country obviously is not enforcing the immigration laws we already have. The old laws simply do not meet our economic needs as a nation. That is why we need immigration reform.
Many people feel it is easier to quote tired old meaningless rhetoric than to confront the issues that need to change.
The old laws meet MY economic needs, and those of most Americans. What needs to change is the way we allow the rich to falsely define our choices and the way they dishonorably refuse to enforce the law when it suits them.
It the presence of illegal laborers were costing the rich money instead of helping them to reduce wages, this problem would have been addressed long ago using existing laws and mechanisms.
The needs of our economy have changed over the past 25-30 years. I would dare say that you probably actually know very little about our immigration laws.
Let’s start with how long it takes from application to legal arrival in the United States. How long for various countries? Do all have the same requirements?
How about farm workers? Do we have enough of those? How about highly skilled workers? Why is Bill Gates complaining about our immigration laws?
I don’t know much about the details of immigration law but I have read enough to learn that our current ones simply aren’t cutting it.
Yea, you can find Americans to do jobs that illegals do. The problem is that the Americans piss, bitch, moan and groan about every little thing for the most part. Many of them feel they are too darn good to do whatever it is you are paying them to do. They show you attitude and slack off unless you stand right on top of them.
Give me an immigrant any old day of the week. They are far more appreciative than many Americans, especially the young ones. I never ask about status and I pay fairly well. The immigrants are far more appreciative, work hard, and do a better job, over and over again.
There are American exceptions and a fine one works occassionally for me. However, the operative word is exception.
Immigration reform is desperately needed so we can include good people into our country and get rid of the bad apples.
Well if that’s true I hope you go to jail like the Painting Company owner in Annapolis will be doing soon. Be sure not to bend over if you drop your soap in the shower.
Moon-howler I agree we should make it easier to get in legally, but even if we don’t
IT IS IMPERATIVE NOT TO REWARD ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR and IMPERATIVE WE NOT LET WASHINGTON AND BIG BUSINESS FALSELY DOMINATE the common sense debate of WHETHER TO PROTECT AMERICANS.
If some lettuce wilts and some prices go up, okay.
This is supposed to be a nation of laws.
“So when the majority of people in the U.S. wish to “GIVE” them something, then you need to shut up and let the majority do what it thinks is best. If you don’t like our charitable nature, then succede!”
The majority??? Are you kidding???? Why is the US GIVING to people who shouldn’t be here in the first place??? If I go to Mexico and decide to live there, would I be given the same things? We have poor people who are here legally that we should be giving to, not people who are here breaking the laws.
Wow. I can’t get over all the bleeding heart rightwingers who are crying a river over the “slave” wages paid to immigrants at the expense of the American poor…you know, those same people whose welfare, WIC, food stamps, SAC programs, adult day care,section 8 housing, etc. they pi$$ and moan about. Next thing I know they’ll be willing to pay enough taxes to cover transportation, infrastructure repair, teachers’ salaries, the war. Oh my goodness! Will miracles never cease?! Maybe a hike in the minimum wage or support of unions is on the horizon!
“Wow. I can’t get over all the bleeding heart rightwingers who are crying a river over the “slave” wages paid to immigrants at the expense of the American poor…you know, those same people whose welfare, WIC, food stamps, SAC programs, adult day care,section 8 housing, etc. they pi$$ and moan about.”
You said it! When it gets down to the end of the day, these guys just want to keep poverty as far away from them as possible, be the poor black, brown or white, whatever. They would rather “Starve” the poor into extinction as opposed to giving one of their precious dimes to charity, or to education, or to providing labor. If raising the min wage comes out of their pockets, they will fight it.
It’s a conservative mind-set, the conservation of greed! And thank God it’s comming to an end. For they just can’t breed nor work hard enough to preserve themselves.
You have it all wrong. Christian conservatives are the most giving of people in time and money, to help those that are in need. What they don’t want is government sanctioned hand outs to illegal immigrants.