July 4th, in my opinion, is the defining moment in American History, and is my most revered “holiday”. My first “experience” on BVBL was as “John Locke”, for he is the real father of “natural law”, which gave us this most powerful statement of freedom and democracy, “all men are created equal. ” The Declaration of Independence, although not considered a “legal” document, is the very soul and conscience of our Democracy. I am guided by those simple, yet awe inspiring words. It was a revolution not only in deed, but in thought, and I honor my forefathers for their bravery and wisdom on July 4th.
In one vibrant paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson managed to compress both a résumé of American constitutional theory that justified the struggle for independence and a précis of a revolutionary, republican theory of government. “All men are created equal”; they enjoy “unalienable Rights” (this repudiated arguments by Thomas Hobbes and William Blackstone that people surrender their natural rights when they leave the state of nature); these rights include “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” (a liberal and literary improvement on John Locke’s triad of life, liberty, and property); governments exist to protect those rights; governments are created by “the consent of the governed” (the compact theory); the people retain the right “to alter or to abolish” government when it violates its ends, “and to institute new Government” to secure the people’s “Safety and Happiness” (the commonwealth theory). In their totality, these concepts provided a comprehensive statement of popular sovereignty.
full text http://www.answers.com/topic/the-declaration-of-independence
why I cannot disagree with the blurb you took from answers.com, I will say that i dont believe the blog owners i.e. really support america so go ahead and sit back, weep for the poor daylaborers and their families why they sit back and laugh at your for doing it. from spending an aweful lot of time in central american and mexico they HATE gringoes down there, gringoes to them exist only to be taken advantage of which is exactly what they are doing here. it’s only gullible people like yourself that fall into their trap
Elvis,
Such an accusation about us proves that you and your ilk are hate-mongerers, unable, or unwilling to acknowledge that we have previously undocumented serving in our armed forces making the ultimate sacrifice for this country so that people like you can exercise your right to free speech and utter such STUPIDITY.
Elvis,
Why were you in Central America? Your anger sure sounds pointed towards people from there. Which specific country?
Let us pause to remember the many illegal aliens who sacrificed their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor so that we may have the freedoms we enjoy today.
That was a quick pause.
Emma you should get down on your knees and thank God that their are men and women willing to fight and die for you, some of them are illegal immigrants who only find citizenship through death…
…I’d say their worth more than a quick pause
Gee feel the love…for all men created equal. Oh yeah except…
Happy 4th!!! Celebrate your right to free and uncensord speech here on Antibvbl.
Remember I have a permenant spelling disclaimer!!
Happy 4th.!!! We still have the freedom to b!tch on blogs, to erect billboards, and munch on hotdogs! Gotta love it!
Emma:
What an ugly thing to say. The first casualty in this misbegotten Iraq war was an undocumented immigrant.
Mi dispiace davvero per la tua bruttezza
I was responding to the ingratitude of people like Mr. Fernandez, whose wall will be in my face this afternoon and evening, bitching about feeling “enslaved” here. He is lucky he lives in a country where such behavior doesn’t result in his sudden disappearance. HE is the one who should be down on his knees in gratitude.
Thousands of legal Americans who have likely never read the Declaration of Independence, should be grateful, you are correct. However, they are unreachable and and probably not either reading this blog or anything else probably!
Most of us should be down on our knees thanking God or whatever being for the simple accident of birth that landed us in the USA. On the 4th, I thank God for his plan that included me being born in Connecticut, USA. Truly appreciating that help me considerably with my compassion for those that were not.
Next time you sing along with Bruce Springsteen, think how fortunate you were to be born here!!
Hate Bunnies will even stoop so low as to leave their droppings on a Happy Birthday America blog. I should be surprised but… then again.
Rod2155, thank you for defending the memories of our unsung fallen heroes. Our soldiers who fought along side them would commend you for this.
Elena, I’ve been a fan of yours since the John Locke days. Thank you for your courage, whatever name you’ve called yourself over the past year. You truly do embody the spirit of our nation’s philosophical progenitors.
The nation thinks of Prince William County as a bad example of the democracy America has built, but those of use who know the story well also know that people like Alanna and Elena stood up to defend our democracy. With their success on April 29th, this tragic story became a story of redemption and triumph. Not everyone knows the truth, but more people do than you think. Remember that.
It’s not all ‘gringos’ that they don’t like Elvis, it’s just you. But I bet being disliked is not a unique experience for you, now is it?
Oh dear….. can’t we all just get along?!!!
I am convinced that most of the “hate bunnies” are those that have or are having problems in their neighborhoods. Therefore, we could call them victims. However, the mainstream thought is that if folks buy into it and behave as victims they will stay victims. On the other hand, if they cannot get help for there issues, then…..
On THE OTHER, Lafayette was able to get herself out of the victim mentality – I think she will tell you she was of that mindset then tired of the in-action and whining associated with it and got off her seat and got going. I think her initial tactic was to go straight to her supervisor and demand help. Seems to have worked. At the very least her neighborhood has and is receiving attention.
For those of you here that are experiencing problems next door, if you tell us where you live (generally) and your supervisors name, most of us would be delighted to call and email on your behalf.
Roddie, Roddie. YOU are going to lecture ME on patriotism? You are TOO cute. Remember not to play with matches today.
On to the celebration! Happy Independece Day, everyone.
Emma, I have the benefit of being able to grow up, you on the other hand are old but incapable of acting like an adult. Time may see that you enter the grave sooner than me, would you not want to take the short time you have left and actually use it to some good purpose as opposed to wasting it on meaningless self glorification?
I’m thankful that younger generations in America are given the freedom to rebuild after their destructive forebears have been condemned to eternity in their lonely graves. Even their headstones will be washed away, the haters presence completely forgotten, but the multi-ethnic free children of the future will flourish. Everyone has a limited time, those who use it to build will be remembered in their works, those who use it to destroy will be forgotten in their wasteland, and as the spring follows the winter, so shall Freedom be rebuilt from the ruins of Fascism. Hatred is but a double failure.
Happy 4th to ALL of you ! 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3bc7mdkyTw&feature=related
And Rod, you are doing hate-speak just as much as Emma. I don’t like what Emma said either. (Emma, I don’t like the snide remark you made about the short pause: anyone who is wearing an American uniform and protecting MY freedom is good enough for me.) However, you don’t know anything about her age and certainly the grave stone remarks have no place on this blog.
I am going to suggest that this thread, at least for today, be saved for positive July 4th comments. Take the crappy remarks to another thread, if for no other reason, to honor America.
To quote those 2 wise sages, Juturna and Rodney King…”….. can’t we all just get along?!!!”
I agree with Rod’s second paragraph. The people who are remembered fondly in history as true heroes are those who sought to create freedom and human rights, not those who sought to build a community or an empire based on the exclusion and hatred for others.
Rod2155, you are one feisty young whipper-snapper! I agree with Moonhowler that there is no need to bring someone’s age into the discussion, 4th of July thread or no. I also agree with Firedancer that your basic sentiment is correct. There are certain things that are inevitable, like death (although this is not a pleasant thing to be reminded of). And on this day of remembrance and honoring our nation’s forefathers and foremothers, it is easier perhaps to appreciate the ephemeral nature of our time on earth, and how history does indeed remember those who fought for justice and equality more than those who posted blog comments against it.
Rod2155, I hope this means you are doing more than just posting blog comments for justice and equality. I am, I’m proud to say. I had focused on the federal government most of my life, but this past year has taught me that it is equally crucial to be involved in local government, which actually affects your day-to-day life more directly. Civic participation, in my view, is an act of patriotism, as central to our democracy as any other duty, including fighting in our armed services. That’s why on this 4th of July, perhaps more than any prior, I have every day Americans in mind as well as our soldiers and our founding fathers.
Just as death is indeed inevitable, the United States of America will continue on its journey to form a more perfect union. It was destined by those early documents that Elena is fond of quoting. It is true, Rob2155, that those who stood in the way of this destiny are not kindly remembered by history. But let’s let them know with a little more politeness next time. What do you say?
Interesting editorials in the Post today, to remind us that while we celebrate independence and freedom today, that history includes diversity from the earliest days and the struggle for equal rights.
From the editorial about the final battle against the British in the War of 1812:
“There were Tennessee militia . . ., Louisiana militia, mostly French-speaking, and mounted Mississippi dragoons. There was an Irish American regiment called the Louisiana Blues and two battalions of
black men, one made up of African Americans and the other of Haitian immigrants. . . . . Up from their hideout at Barataria came the notorious pirate band of Jean and Pierre Lafitte. . . . Jackson’s orders to this heterogeneous army had to be translated not only into French but also into Spanish.”
From Eugene Robinson’s column about the patriotism of Black Americans:
“This isn’t about whether or not Barack Obama wins. Just the fact that he might win is an incredible change for this country — and recognizing the importance of that change is, to me, the very essence of patriotism.What’s unpatriotic is pretending that the past never happened. What’s unpatriotic is failing to acknowledge that we’ve struggled with race for nearly 400 years. What’s unpatriotic is relegating “black history” to the month of February when, really, it’s American history, without which this nation could never be what it is today.”
Let’s remember “illegals” can earn citizenship through service to the United States and many have done so. Thank you to all who serve in whatever capacity that may be. (Incidentally, in the tradition of MLK, Obama just said something on service to country: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/07/03/qt)
I really lke Eugene Robinson and I. Colbert King.
Here is a fascinating story of what can happen to you at the hands of the police. You know, those guys who are sworn to uphold the Constitution:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_n3_v28/ai_18116297
Great post Firedancer,
maybe we should take this opportunity to talk about what Democracy and the Declaration of Independence means to us and how these ideas are reflected in our own lives and actions. The preamble to the Declaration was revolutionary it its ideas as the basis for a new government. I too feel priviledged to have been born in this country, and Elvis, BECAUSE I love my country so much, I will continue to speak out, to preserve what I believe, is its soul and consience.
Juturana,
I think that citizens who had concerns were exploited. Instead of looking for solutions to deal with these specific neighborhood issues, they allowed themselves to be co-opted by FAIR and people like Greg. This was a unique opportunity to reach out to larger organizations, hispanic leadership and partner to deal with these issues.
WHWN,
Thank you 🙂
I don’t think Rod is engaging in hate speech. I think you’re misunderstanding. Death, like birth, is a part of life.
My goodness, who said Rod was engaging in hate speech. That’s preposterous. I have a nephew I was disciplining recently, made him take a time out. He said to me, “One day, when you get old and I get strong….” Didn’t strike me as hate speech, but he is right that I’m not quite as spry as I used to be. The other undercurrent of what Rod is saying above is that future generations will not be gripped by fear of the stranger, and racial intolerance will no longer be a part of American politics. Just as we here very little from the Segregationists today, we will soon here nary a peep from the Hate Bunnies and their puppeteers, The Anti-Immigrant Lobby. All of this is true. I was just saying Rod could have said it nicer. It is a blessing to be young, but don’t rub it in!
here = hear
Mackie and (WHWN), if it wasn’t it was entirely too close to it for my tastes. At best it was hateful and it was directed at an individual.
The entire sentiment “I am young, you are old, you dont have much time left” directed at Emma was not acceptable in polite society. Rod has no idea how old Emma is unless she has told him, and I seriously doubt that she has. Basically, it was disrespectful.
“Being condemned in their lonely graves” is also a rather generic stab at all those who have gone before us.
Having said that, I am not sure I get to decide what is offensive to hispanics or blacks, as a white woman. By the same token, I dont think you youngsters get to decide what is offensive to those who are more mature in years. A society is judged by how it treats its elderly. I did not like the tone of the post. It made me think I was on bvbl and someone was attacking Mrs. Krutis. We should all be lucky to be as sharp as she is. By the way, she has been banished from bvbl.
I am sorry she hasn’t found her way over here. She would fit right in with this crew.
I did not mean to offend all the older people, Emma has been collectively on me throughout many threads on this blog the past couple days about me being “a little boy” and therefore having no valid opinion, I just gave her a reminder of her mortality, but I admit it was a little mean, it’s a knee jerk reaction after being bullied so much of my life. As I warned her on another thread, I use my words to disarm people, and sometimes they can hurt…(and come back to haunt me)
WHWN, I work in the state education system and run into these immigrants everyday. I usually get passionate because I see the BVBL crowd’s snide remarks about immigrants as being personal attacks on my friends and clients. Some would accuse me of stealing taxpayer dollars to give these immigrants a free ride. It’s not true, most of us put in more sweat and hours than the State pays us for because ignorance is a lot more dangerous than Illegal Immigration, and everyone in my school gets the same services.
Mackie, to me death is nothing but the next bend in the spiritual river that flows through space and time, but I believe you have to preserve your soul in order to make it around that bend. Otherwise your doomed to wander this life like a ghost, watching the destruction of your bad actions progress, yet being unable to intervene. So many people get caught up in this obsession to possess as much wealth and material as they possibly can, but they forget that they cannot take it with them. When it comes to immigration, it seems the number one concern is that the immigrants will prevent you from obtaining more wealth. Since Wealth is not my #1 concern in life, I guess Illegal Immigration does not concern me.
Anyway I hope everyone has a Happy 4th of July, though I’m here typing away as the rain is falling outside. Lets not forget that though we declared ourselves independent on this day, it was also on this day that the battle of Gettysburg took place, the battle that was the tipping point of reason over intolerance in the Civil War, a battle to prove indeed ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL!
While I had to come inside because of the rain too as WE all celebrate the 4th, it made me think of this song.
I declare a rain break 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWYRfsjBNQk
I posted this on the WRONG thread earlier..opps…my computer is ONCE again up and down due to the rain and storm…
Enjoy 🙂
While I had to come inside because of the rain too as WE all celebrate the 4th, it made me think of this song.
I declare a rain break 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWYRfsjBNQk
I posted this on the WRONG thread earlier..opps…my computer is ONCE again up and down due to the rain and storm……
Enjoy 🙂
Forget it…my computer is winning…SORRY for the DOUBLE (maybe more?) posts. 🙁
As Phil Ochs Said:
“And we’ll respect our elders just as long as they allow that when I’ve got something to say, sir, I’m gonna say it now.”
Emma, 2. July 2008, 21:19
“waah-waah, Rod. Your silly anarchist babble is tiresome. Little boy with a big gun.”
Emma, 3. July 2008, 18:59
“Rod, please don’t interrupt when the grownups are talking.”
I’m sorry Moon-Howler, but I have no respect for abusive people, no matter how old they are and I will tell them of. I was raised to respect my elders as long as they respected me.
Admin,
Please post a thread for this video. Please post it today as it is appropriate.
This new development is truly ominous! This is where we separate the patriots from the sheep.
We are not free because we are strong. We are strong because we are free.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IooFrJ6lfdA
OK, I’m back from plucking all my gray hairs. I know that people in their 30’s and 40’s can seem real old to someone like Rod. And I am not afraid of diversity, and I don’t care if we have a “multiethnic” future, Rod. That mantra of yours is getting really old and stale. Maybe you could come up with some new and creative insults for a change.
Moon-howler, you’re right, I was a little harsh. But what I am right now is really mad about the whole wall issue–the hearing delayed, that hate speech in my face every day, because of some misguided idiot who thinks he is actually helping whatever his cause happens to be by flipping the bird at the community. All that offensive talk about slavery from a property owner who is clearly profiting in this country and, unlike the African slaves were, is free to leave anytime. He has no idea how much his actions have polarized the City.
Rod, you are free to believe what you wish about me, and you have certainly made a lot of false assumptions in your zeal to score points here. But how shameful for you to speak that way of older persons, Rod, as if they are disposable and as if you in your youth have all the answers. You exhibit a profound disrespect that is no better than the racism you so freely accuse others of.
Just caught your post, Rod. Why don’t you go back and cut and paste some of your own disrespectful posts that are laced with violent references? You have been nothing but rude and very often childish in response to anything I have posted.
Enough said. I’ll be happy to ignore you.
Rod, I was raised to respect mine or at least act like I did regardless of how they behaved. If I didn’t, I caught hell from my parents. I think that might be a generational thing.
I had not paid attention to the youth put downs and I am at fault there. I think it is just something some of us more mature (in years) folks do. (hands on hips) You young people! Your point is well taken.
I do think that people forget that age is one of those protected attributes from discrimination, like gender, race, religion, national origin, etc. (also very hard to prove when dealing with EEOC) Our superintendent of schools is finding out that it is illegal to discriminate based on age, it seems. It is no less offensive, in reality, to make a remark about a person’s advanced age than it is to make an ugly remark about one’s religion or national origin.
Rod, unfortunately, that discrimination taboo seems to only work on the upper boundaries and not the other end. Doesn’t make it right, just is.
Mackie in response to your post @ 17:30
IF it is true…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yocBSmC2RM8
How does Rod even KNOW how old Emma is? Did I miss something?
People we don’t know online have an agelessness factor about them unless they reveal some of their lives and histories. On this blog, I can’t tell who is WHAT age and frankly, I never thought of it. On other blogs, I can tell if the person is older or younger than me, usually, but in any kind of discussion or chat-like forum, it’s harder to tell.
Oh yeah, and I’m about tired of ESOL teachers getting bashed because of their profession, like helping non-native speakers learn English language and culture is a bad thing! Idiotas!
I don’t know which side to take….being offended by being accused of being old or young…LOL…as I am picking out MY own gray hairs…
We can ALL learn from EACH other. We just ALL take DIFFERENT paths to get there. I find the best route=root ( as in follicular, gray or natural) is ATTITUDE.
We are only as young as we want to be 😉
Where is Krutis?
This one is for her!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHNeRjC4nJw
it’s 4th of july, we should all rejoice in the fact we are all here. then take a look into downtown and see that nasty sign our mexican friend fernandez posted. I wonder of the blog owners and friends are hanging out there handing out MWB t-shirts or something spouting their leftist “we have rights” propaganda all with eric byler and crew filming it.
the illegals dont want anything to do with this country other than attempt to work and send back their proceeds to their country. given the chance for amnesty I would guarantee that most of them would forgo citizenship if offered (many of those who got it awhile back never became citizens) they care only about their country, not america.
I’m actually 5 years old.
But I’m very well read.
Elvis,
This song says it all.No matter how hard someone tries to get their passion/opinion out there for discussion, it gets shut down by what is not let in 😉
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bax8FqBECd0
Hey Elvis,
JZ on BVBL was asking the same thing you were about handing out t-shirts and such..
I guess inquiring MIND(s) want to know. I will play this one for JZ 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWLHQ3S-Oq8
Elvis, Gaudencio Fernandez is a citizen, so wouldn’t that make him your “American friend”? You are free to detest him, but he is no less an American than you are.
I can’t tell if your reference to “illegals” and “their country” is a case of linguistic error or you really believe they all come from one country. In this area, most illegal immigrants are not from Mexico. A substantial proportion of illegal immigrants here and in the United States at large are not even from Latin America. In addition, some 45% of illegal immigrants in the US entered legally (Pew Research Center).
As for remittances, they are common to legal and illegal immigrants alike, as are ties to home countries. You don’t give any reasons for your belief that post-amnesty, most illegal immigrants would forgo citizenship. You present no data on 1986. And finally your view doesn’t even accord with folks on your side, such as CIS (the research offshoot of FAIR) that did studies estimating the impact of proposed amnesty legislation.
Leila, thank you for schooling Elvis!
Elvis, in case you haven’t noticed by now, this blog is shark-infested waters for those who do not check their facts or balance their political leanings with evidence and/or best practices. Soon, you’ll have earned a nickname like “Rick Bentley Who Has Not Thought Things Through.”
Just got back from the Manassas fireworks. Nice show! Rained a bit, but that didn’t stop anyone.
Also stopped by and said hello to Mr. F. We talked a bit about his sign and his plans and…..
That’s all am going to say : ) It was a great conversation!
Happy 4th everyone!