It is time now, time to move towards community solutions for Prince William County. I have said this before, we will not fix the immigration reform debate from a local standpoint. There are many diverse views on illegal immigration AND immigration, but at some point, we have to come together and find what will work in our own communities, our own neighborhoods. Let’s use this thread to talk about community solutions, ones that WE can implement here, in Prince William County, solutions that will unite us as opposed to divide us. Part of the solution must involve the Latino community, so I hope that people will come up with some innovative ideas. Please, I urge everyone, leave the name calling behind and instead, focus on positive solutions. Some of the issues that need to be addressed are day laborer sites and a more dignified location for people to look for work, overcrowding issues, language barriers, community healing, immigration education, and a host of other issues that need to be addressed. I know I haven’t named them all, so please, feel free to add to the issues and solutions within the thread. I am hoping this will foster some great dialogue and bring us out of a “cyber world” and into “real life” idea implementation!
From Cindy B on a previous thread:
If you want to do more than just debate, take part in a webinar being hosted by the Center for Voter Deliberation of No Va (www.cvdnva.org) on July 9 from 6:30 to 7:30 pm.
This fall the Center plans to convene one or two pilot circles, of up to twenty people each, for an afternoon on one or more Saturdays in October. The goal for the pilot circle(s) will be to attract a diverse group of Prince William County participants, i.e., to include people who have concerns about the problems of immigration from the immigrant and non-immigrant sides, and who seek a way to discuss and do something about those problems.
So either register for the webinar if you’d like to be in on the planning, or go to the website to leave an e-mail that you’d like to be in the pilot study circles in the fall. The more diverse the viewpoints, the more valuable the study circles will be.
I noticed that the comments were cut off on all the new threads. I think someone else mentioned that on here earlier this morning though. Why open up a new thread and close the comments.
Moon-howler, 9. July 2008, 8:13
Just Cause,
Q. What are you whining about this morning?
A: That you have succeeded in “chasing” away more individuals with your antics and belittling
Q: All questions I found legitmate were answered. Did you not see my rather lengthy post?
A: Same bantering..Different day..I get tired of reading YOUR posts…
Q: Nooooo you picked out what you wanted to see, which was a rebuttal. It amazes ME how absolutely ridiculous you are. You come here for a fight. Go fight on bvbl.
A: When you point a finger at someone, remember there are 3 more pointing BACK at you…in other words..Hi Pot..Meet kettle.
Q: You have no questions. You just lob grenades.
A: No you “hate” debate, When someone asks a question or discuss’s an experience or simply disagrees with you, you in turn insult them, belittle them and call them names.
maybe you need to practice what you preach…
Again from BVBL:
Good N. Plenty said on 8 Jul 2008 at 8:39 pm:
An interesting thing happened today at the day labor site at Coverstone 7-11.
After a civic organization did a bit of observing Saturday, and no doubt made a few more phone calls to have officials take a closer look at what was going on here, good news!!………..the typically 100 men who hang out for hours here were scattered today as there is a new surveillance on the scene. The property owner hired a security guard who has taken his job seriously and getting some police support on that site. Most of the men scattered to unknown areas, some shifted to the corner of Coverstone Apartments
The day laborers have been scaring away business from the 7-11, the owner didn’t want them there … so they started hanging out on the adjacent vacant lot.
Sounds like they’re not wanted there either!
Maybe they’ll get the message that illegal is illegal and we can then move together towards a humane comprehensive solution. Or maybe they should just go camp out at fernandez’ sign and get picked up there. Actually there would be a logic to that. Then the people who pick them up could look up at the sign and be confronted with their own anti-Americanism.
An Observer- I think a 100 men is a high estimate. The funny thing is the daylaborers had dwindled in numbers earlier this year. Now, they daylaborers are a growing again in numbers at the Coverstone 7-11. If so many have fled the area, why are more daylaborers hanging out than ever? I guess some like in BOTH ways.
Rick,
They are scattered now near Coverstone Apts. This is the same tactic used a couple of months ago at the 7-11 accross from Marumsco Plaza on Rt. 1. However, I was getting some cheap gas, as if there is such a thing at Race Trac around 7:30am today. I saw 15 men on the 7-11 property seeking shelter from the rain at the store front. The 7-11 sure didn’t seem to mind having them there this morning. I thought 7-11 wanted them gone. That’s simply not what I saw this morning.
Speaking of the sign. You can most literaly camp out at 9500 Liberty. Last night in the early evening there were about 5 tents set up and dinner was being grilled.
SA,
This is what I was talking about yesterday. People believing what the system tells them. I don’t know about your background but you cannot say that $400,000 houses in this area belong to upper class neighborhood. I am not saying it is a slum but in most suburbs that would be the cost of a condo.
We have been telling lies to working-class people and now with the state of the economy we blame the “other” group ( immigrants) for our problems. They are not destroying our way of life. We were deceived and we didn’t get ready to compete in a a new global economy.
So did Greg get hired by 7-11 to be it’s official Security Guard?
Two interesting articles in today’s WaPo. FYI.
– “Latin Lovers” by Dana Milbank on A3. A report on Obama and McCain at a
League of Latin American Citizens meeting this week. “Como le dice ‘pander’
en Espanol?”
– Op/Ed page piece “The Candor Gap” by Robert Samuelson. “We could refashion
immigration policy to favor skilled immigrants, because they contribute more to
the economy and assimilate faster.” He notes that “low-skilled” Hispanics
don’t assimilate rapidly and lag behind other immigrant groups.
Ooh. I smell a lawsuit in the making if Greg makes a habit of posting these pictures and accusations without any proof to back them up. Hope he has deep pockets.
Oh now it’s starting to make sense… Greg said a while back that the owner of 7-11 could not afford to hire a security company so HSM has either footed the bill OR one of it’s members has a new job working for 7-11.
I wonder if HSM will organizer it’s self into a private security contract agency, you know like trigger happy Blackwater.
An Army for hire if you will. Soldiers of Fortune
Mercinaries…
Chris, I can understand anyone leaving an organization that wants to go in that direction. It’s very dangerous. Are they going to institute private cerfew on people, will they carry weapons? I remember Greg boasting about a huge supply of ammunition he won a few months ago.
If this is the case, you guys are in for some trouble. The Herndon Police had always expressed extreem displeasure with the Herndon Minutemen, yet not even they were so bold to become a neighboord Vigilante group.
Although I’m now Very Confident that the FBI will be take notice.
“The FBI should be interested in looking into some of this stuff.”
Did you report it? I just reported more hate-messages I got to the police. These are gender based/disability/gender preference slurs.
TH wrote
“I don’t know about your background but you cannot say that $400,000 houses in this area belong to upper class neighborhood. I am not saying it is a slum but in most suburbs that would be the cost of a condo.”
I agree. And I am disturbed about stereotypes about wealth, which is in the hands of people of different backgrounds, ages, ethnicities, etc. There is not a typical wealthy “professional.” Being wealthy means that well-to-do person is not typical. They are not necessarily going to have a “9 to 5” like everyone.
Chris wrote:
There was a story about the sign on WJLA last night, and it mentioned that a group (from CA, maybe? I forget) had come to see the sign (among other activities). I think they were the campers you saw yesterday. One of them is interviewed in the video.
http://cfc.wjla.com/videoondemand.cfm?id=18134&ref=home
Actually, here’s a better link to the video, with an accompanying story.
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0708/534268.html
SA,
How does anyone know, how anybody affords anything? I often wonder this myself, sometimes in the middle of the day, I’m in Manassas running errands and think, why don’t these people have jobs. How could they all afford to be out spending money instead of working.
In the case of your neighbors, maybe they kept buying and selling every two years through the real estate boom? Who knows, maybe they have rich families, or do you believe that’s not a possibility, and if not, why not?
It reminds me, when we were looking for a home, model home salespersons with no idea about our financing actually attempted to steer us away from certain neighborhoods by saying things like the homes are really over priced in this neighborhood, you should look down the street where the homes are more reasonable. It isn’t right and neither are your assumptions that your neighbors couldn’t conceivably afford a home in YOUR neighborhood.
KG, I’ve got screen shots of the most vile or threatening messages. I’ll probably save them and send them as a group if I send them at all. I’m really surprised that the WaPo lets that garbage stand but it gives their online version of articles hits and in the process shows how bizarre some of the posters are. The problem that I see is that it also enables the hatred to rise in a more public arena…which some people will think validates it.
rod,
I hope you do understand I am NO longer a member of HSM. This current behavior is nothing I want to be associated with. Thank goodness this was not happening in my days as a member, because I would jump overboard on the spot. I find both groups hanging out up there to be troublesome in my mind. This of course is my personal opinion.
I honestly have no idea what they’re doing these other than what my daughter, mother, and myself have witnessed with “our own two eyes”. I don’t like this current direction in my native county. I find it all very sad.
Censored, that’s why I sent mine to the cops. I copy/paste but unfortunately, other people’s sane comments get mixed up in the insane ones. People really have nothing better to do than harass and spread their vile everywhere.
Chris, I agree that civil wars are not what we want. We want solutions. Glad you are out of the hate scene.
Casual,
Thanks for the videos. Mr. F says they won’t back down. Nice. I tell you one thing that might start some healing is if he would just take the remaining side of the house down that was to have been demolished. I could care less what the sign says. The problem is with the blatant zoning violation(s).
Oberserver,(Do I have that spelling right?)
Are you trying to point the readers here in a general direction? I would surmise from the clues you have dropped that Greg is the new security guard at the 7-11.
That certainly would be the rooster guarding the hen house, now isn’t it?
KG and Censored- ..I have to ask, Where is the Hate posts?? I went back and have read and read and read some posts but I dont see anything that is “vile” in the least, I do see a bunch of tit for tats but nothing that I would suspect as threatening or harassing.
I see some hostility ( from All sides) but nothing that requires police involvement.
Isnt this a no holds bar, get your opinions off your chest, bounce issues around kind of blog??? If I cant practice free speech without the threat of being reported to police then guess I will have to follow Emma out the door….
Just Cause,
Was that black velvet-ese for nah nah nah naaaaah nah?
Yawn! Don’t read the posts then.
Moon-howler, 9. July 2008, 11:24 SAID:
Just Cause,
Was that black velvet-ese for nah nah nah naaaaah nah?
__________________________________________________
MH- I dont get it??
Rick Bentley,
Please take your lunatic threats elsewhere. If you big bad mamas boys went to 7-11 with baseball bats the police would put you over their knee, spank you and throw you all in the slammer. Then you would be in jail for years to come, lose your house, lose your job, lose your wife, lose your mind,…and ultimately end up a drooling, babbling fool in a straight-jacket who doesn’t even notice when he urinates on himself. And who would be the orderlies who laugh at you while you flop around in your own excrement? Undocumented workers.
Is that what you want for your future?
The MACK is BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Censored was talking about comments to a Washington Post article online. And no, this isn’t a ‘no holds’ blog. If you say something that should be reported to the police, JC, it will be.
Actually, you can’t really assume much on a blog. That’s the risk you take. Is the learning curve that steep?
Amen Mackie!
Moon howler:
I mispelled my name and didn’t notice it.
As to what you say about the Coverstone 7-11, you can draw your own conclusions. Also that thread is open now for comments and there are some interesting ones in it.
My supervisor is going to be cleaning up yards in Georgetown South with his church the next two Saturdays. He enlisted my entire family and several of his neighbors. He also challenged all his employees and some are even coming from Arlington to help. Even my kids are excited. The foreclosure situation in the neighborhood has caused tremendous problems. I’m not sure of the exact times yet, but if you’re ready to walk the talk, you can get information from the Manassas Assembly of God Church. I’m sure they’ll appreciate all the help they get.
Be part of the solution instead of the rhetoric.
MH-
Anytime there is a debate, I think it should follow the “freedom of speech” that is why I tolerate your zingy comments but I chalk it up to you “blowing off steam”. I can only hope that in “real life” you wouldnt be soo belittling. As for the steep learning curve..Anything that is posted in Cyperspace is permanent and forever I understand that, I was inquiring where the ” hate” posts were coming from that the Police would of been involved, I just think that is ridiculous and people need to grow some tough skin or get out of cyperspace all together! Now if a person is getting personal emails full of threats and hate, thats another story..My philosophy is that if you can ” dish it out, You better be prepared to take it”.
Threatening a persons freedom of speech with the police…is well….Insane
Chris, I’m very glad your not with HSM anymore. All of us have our diffrences, but descending to militancy to achieve them is a self destructive path. It’s only a matter of time before someone gets hurt, or killed.
Fortunatly the Oaklahoma City bombing is something the FBI has never forgotten, and they will not hessitate to nutralize any homegrown terror orginization like HSM is turning into.
“Censored, that’s why I sent mine to the cops. I copy/paste but unfortunately, other people’s sane comments get mixed up in the insane ones. People really have nothing better to do than harass and spread their vile everywhere.’
You wasted the police’s time because of what? Where are these hate comments that you are talking about? So can all of the people that you slander send your comments to the police?
It’s called freedom of speech – and every one of the regular posters on this blog have been guilty of hate speech at one time or another. You know, people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
You wish- Thank you !!!
My point exactly..I think its a tactic to “hush” the non-believers over here…
Militancy? HSM is working hand-in-hand with law enforcement as I understand it.
There are laws against loitering. I think they should apply to everyone. Is that militant?
Agreed, where are all these “hate posts” that were reported to the police. I would also like to know.
Interesting. You might want to report hate speech to your site host.
“BRIAN LEVIN
California State University, San Bernardino
American extremists have traditionally cultivated technology to enhance efficiency and promote goals. This article concentrates on how domestic right-wing and other extremists have used computer networks to these ends. Although the concept of a guerrilla insurgency through “leaderless resistance” became a factor in right-wing extremist movements before the Internet’s advent, cyberspace hastened its popularity. The Internet has been useful to hatemongers and extremists because it is economical and far reaching, and online expression is significantly protected by the First Amendment. Various court decisions have established that not all communication is protected, in cyberspace or elsewhere. Although the government cannot regulate Internet expression because it offends sensibilities, it can regulate expression that constitutes crimes that fall under various unprotected areas of speech. Courts have convicted hatemongers who use the Internet to communicate threats rather than merely ideas. Private service providers and foreign governments have greater latitude to prohibit offensive and hateful expression that does not constitute a threat. ”
http://abs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/45/6/958
I would like to “see” them, I am wondering if they infact exist at all or if this is just a figment of a dangerous mind…
“Courts have convicted hatemongers who use the Internet to communicate threats rather than merely ideas.”
Who has threatened anyone on this blog? Words have been slung, but I haven’t seen someone come right out and say “I’m going to kill you” or “You’d better watch your back”. What exactly are you talking about, KG?
KG-
Can you please just give a sample of the posts that you received and feared as a threat that might consitute crime???
Interesting KG, several people have asked you to point out specific posts on this blog that you have reported to the police and so far you have provided no evidence.
If you don’t give us evidence we’ll just assume this is yet another attempt to silence those who disagree with you, like your previous attempts at labeling them as Nazis, Greg clones, etc. That’s probably what all this “reporting hate speech posts to the police” nonsense really is about, isn’t it?
For all you dim bulbs up there who can’t seem to follow the link to the WaPo comments section that I posted above (as well as the actual comment that threatened a violent overthrow of the country) go back and find it before belly-aching about something I didn’t say. I haven’t sent anything to the FBI that I’ve read at BVBL or the WaPo though I’ve made a lot of screen shots. Go back up there and read the selected comment and then come back and defend it, contrarian trolls.
I’m not talking about this blog. And unless you are sending hate notes directly to me, you have nothing to worry about.
We were talking about KG who said she DID send posts (and didn’t seem to refer to the Washington Post article but to this blog as she claimed they were directed at her personally). We want her to prove what she is saying once and for all, as otherwise she’ll lose all credibility on this blog. It just seems like one more in her many attempts to silence those she doesn’t agree with. No one has been asking you, Censored – they were asking KG. Maybe you are the “dim bulb” for not seeing that several people were asking KG to back up her claims.
Hey look – I found one!
kgotthardt, 26. June 2008, 11:06
Slowpoke, remind me to let you die a slow, miserable death the next time you violate civil law.
Doesn’t that constitute hate speech? Maybe I should send that to the police.
And censored, we were asking KG, not you.
OK KG, thanks for clarifying that. I was wrong in assuming you were referring to this blog. My apologies.
Censored- CHILLAX…Why cant you CUT and PAST it here, You put this out there, now defend it..Put your name to it!!!! Us dimbulbs dont want to have to find your needle in the haystack….
My blog disclaimer:
href=”http://www.namaii.com/readme/”>
Then again, you said:
“Censored, that’s why I sent mine to the cops. I copy/paste but unfortunately, other people’s sane comments get mixed up in the insane ones. People really have nothing better to do than harass and spread their vile everywhere.”
That doesn’t sound to me like you were referring to individual e-mails – as how could you mix together several people’s e-mails? Now you see why all of us thought you were talking about posts to a blog. You can cut/paste a single e-mail – how would you mix together “hate” and “non-hate” e-mails from different people (or as you put it – “people’s sane comments get mixed up in the insane ones”). Now it seems you are just changing what you said since you have no proof to offer of “hate posts”.