For all the speculation about a “surprise” in the 9500Liberty preview screening scheduled for tomorrow night at Casablanca, what I found most compelling was the clarity and precision with which it explained some complicated truths I already suspected, as well as a few I didn’t suspect. There are indeed some surprises. In fact, a few of them were bigger than I was expecting, but no, none of them included Corey Stewart at 7 Eleven with Greg Letiecq. The most striking thing about the film is that, taken as a whole, it depicts the Chairman in battle mode as only his colleagues know him, and as the average citizen has never seen him before.
Some of the scenes inside the BOCS chamber have the feeling of a showdown at high noon, with John Grisham style dramatic tension, only the suspense in this case is not dramatized; it’s real! I don’t want to give anything away. I really recommend you see it for yourself. If you do, I predict you will be on the edge of your seat, squirming with suspense, EVEN if you already know how the story turned out.
By getting perspectives from Board members, the Police Chief, the County Executive and others, the film illustrates the consensus view of recent PWC history, from a fascinating perspective inside the county government. Specifically, it explains what went down behind closed doors, so to speak, during the budgeting process, the long recesses and closed sessions, and how the risk of racial profiling lawsuits, and the high costs of avoiding them, led to the scaling back of the county’s illegal immigration policy.
I felt like Corey Stewart was treated fairly. At times I actually sympathized with the impossible situation he faced as the champion of this unfortunate “experiment” (yes, the word “experiment” comes up again but I won’t spoil it by saying who said it this time).
I know I am being vague, but I am determined not to give too much away. Let me just say THE BEST THING about the film is the inside view it provides us into the Supervisors’ approach to this controversial issue. There were several times when I was shocked at how honest people were being, and how comfortable they were just telling the truth, when we’d lived with so much confusion the past 2 months about what really went on.
There will inevitably be grumbling from the extreme right saying this is not their version of reality. No surprise there. But despite all the confusion, it’s a relief to know there is a consensus about what really happened. And, if you watch this film, it’s very possible you’ll understand it in great detail. If not, you will have a hard time discussing local politics with someone who has.
Casablanca 7:00 p.m.
7911 Centreville Rd
Manassas
Some 45 percent of illegal immigrants in the United States entered the country legally. This includes people from all over the world, but also even from our south. But beyond that, the fence has only been proposed for less than half of the nearly 2,000 mile border. Even presuming it withstands all the legal challenges it is getting from municipalities, environmentalists, and American Indian peoples whose traditional and sacred lands cross the border, it would be built on less than half the border. There is no way to effectively police it, which makes its violation all that more likely. Plus it is only 700 miles or so, so people will go around. All this is to say the focus on the border fence (as now planned) is kind of comical. This is not a border that will be “secured.”
SA says it is just “illegal immigrants” who are under discussion. Yet the resolution in PWC was formed under the influence of a group, FAIR, that is in favor of drastically reducing all immigration and laments much of the legal immigration we have. Plus there are plenty of examples of nativist sentiment in this country against legal immigrants, today and in the past.
For those who want to rid the country of illegal immigrants, the solution could only come through extremely draconian penalties against all employers. But that carries with it threats to national security as well, unless you think the economy is not part of national security.
Then again, one could look at the US record in the world, the total balance sheet of the US footprint in the countries supplying much of our local illegal immigration (such as El Salvador) and take a longer view while trying to fix the abuses locally.
I want to stress one thing to you utopian dreamers here. When that house was sold in 2005, and Latino people started moving in, we tried to be friendly. We waved at the little kids and tried to shake hands with the new neighbors. We had no preconceptions – or even awareness that the scowling men moving beds in didn’t live there, or that the women whose name was on the deed was some type of front.
My/our antipathy developed as a direct result of what our block turned into. I don’t hate all of the people who lived there. I dislike one very much. I outright hate the people in our government and media who try to make people like me swallow things like that so that the rich can make a quicker buck.
Leila I hope that when you speak of fixing abuses locally, you are speaking of things like allowing Rule of Law in a County.
My position, and I have consulted with no one in or out of FAIR about this, is that until we can disincentivize people from flowing from the South, rational discussion on pros and cons of measured immigration and any discussion of numbers is pointless and hardly even related. 20 million ain’t the right number.
Rick, if you mean the Rule of Law resolution, then no. I see constitutional and other problems with it. If you mean enforcing all the codes/laws that exist, then yes.
But you are again revealing, why from the South? If there are 20 million illegal immigrants here (and that is a number vastly larger than FAIR or other groups on your side use), a substantial percentage come from countries not to our South. The only disincentive will have to come through employer sanctions.
Your comments here:
“Watching little kids running wild talking in Spanish in the grocery store and eating candy in the aisles – no crime committed unless and until some citizen tries to make a citizen’s arrest.”
are revealing. Why does it make a difference that the kids were talking in Spanish? Why is the rowdiness not problem alone? If you want to arrest a kid for eating candy (something I certainly have seen kids of all kinds doing in stores), then please also arrest all the native-born American adults who graze supermarkets. You appear obsessed with a certain group. You have no idea if the kids are illegal. If tomorrow they were all made legal through some amnesty, the behavior wouldn’t alter. That is why the behavior of the people in your neighborhood is the greater issue, not the status. If you look, you can find comments from communities with sudden influxes of totally legal immigrants who react exactly the same way you have.
Lookin foward to putting some faces to names tonight. How many people can Casablanca Hold? will it fill up fast, should I come early? Can I get dinner while I watch the movie?
Should I bring MACE? are the haters going to “keep in line?” Maybe I should keep the Claymore in the trunk, just in case people want to go medieval on my ass?
Like I said, look for the tall bearded freak with the Scottish Bow Morral, that’ll be me bringin some love from Herndon.
“The only disincentive will have to come through employer sanctions.”
That’s worth doing. But unfortunately our corrupt government has failed to mandate usage of any system for checking right-to-work that’s reliable enough. So, the only person that can REALLy be held accountable is the one who knowingly broke the law, took the false ID and presented it as themself. That may not be the most fair solution but it’s the world we live in.
“Watching little kids running wild talking in Spanish in the grocery store and eating candy in the aisles – no crime committed unless and until some citizen tries to make a citizen’s arrest.”
are revealing. Why does it make a difference that the kids were talking in Spanish? Why is the rowdiness not problem alone?
It is. My point is that their parents were probably illegal. At a minimum totally unassimilated. And you see behavior in that situation that none of us want to see around us. Never until the recent illegal invasion of my County did I see little kids opening candy and cereal boxes while their mothers watched them do it. Any American citizen would expect to get in trouble for that. Illegal aliens are used to doing things like that and then acting as if they didn’t know it was wrong, didn’t understand language or customs, if/when confronted. not all of them. just a minority of them. BUT ENOUGH TO MAKE THE SUPERMARKET RESEMBLE THIRD-WORLD CONDITIONS.
I never had any issue with the Latino population in PWC, which was always 15-20% of the population. Until the illegal influx. My issue is not with latinos, it’s with illegal aliens and the unregulated state we live in where no one is held accountable for laws or rules if it helps the rich stay richer.
constitutional problems with enforcing the law … sigh … to me, anyone who thinks that is an ineffectual tool, rather easily manipulated into anything by the pwers-that-be.
“we swore to uphold the laws, but we choose not to, and don’t you try either because we think they might be unconstitutional. just sit tight and let us pick and choose which laws to enforce. ” I say – NO.
If you’re illegal, and detected – even as victim of a crime or by enrolling kids in school – you should BE GONE.
Rod–
You’ll be sportin’ a balmoral now, wouldya?
My grandparents came here from Scotland (Paisley and Glasgow) in the 1920s. Settled in a largely Scottish community in the northeast US, and did their level best not to assimilate. 🙂 Scottish bakers (raisin squares…mmmm), butchers (meat pies, anyone?), fish and chip shops on every street, and the best HS soccer team in the state for generations. My parents used to take us to visit our grandparents every weekend, and I grew up hearing the Scottish brogues of my grandparents’ family and friends.
About 20 years ago, Portuguese families started moving in, transforming this Scottish community. They somehow learned to coexist, and now you see Portuguese restaurants and grocers on the same streets as the fish and chip shops. 🙂 The HS still has a great soccer team, too. 🙂
Rod,
Casa Blanca is very large and I don’t think that you will have trouble getting in at all.
No one has ever caused a problem there for one of the economic recovery parties.
I look forward to meeting you.
I’m going to show up, and pee in the punch bowl – no, just kidding.
SA,
Sorry, I slept in and then I had other fish to fry this morning, as it were. I did not mean to neglect you. I will attempt to address the points you have made. You have been on this blog since its inception and I think you do have a right to be heard and not drowned out.
It is a crime to cross the border without proper credentials. However, it isn’t a major crime. I am not an expert on immigration law by a long shot. However, from what I have read, it is the actual crossing that is a misdemeanor (and yes, that IS a crime also) and remaining here is not a crime once you get a certain distance from the border. I am not willing to call someone a criminal who does that because I think that just clouds the issue and isn’t really part of the debate.
I think you bring up a very important point: Solving minor crimes. That is the Rudy Guilani school of thought. Solving small crimes prevents them from becoming big crimes. Why don’t you and I decide on 5 minor crimes and put them out there and see what this group thinks.
Just out of curiosity, did the watch the PBS War of the World show on Monday June 30 and Monday July 7? If memory serves me, you are interested in past war history?
I am going to break this response up…stay tuned.
SA,
The economic recovery parties are mainly for socializing. None of the restaurants have been owned by illegal immigrants. All are either legal residents or citizens. If you would like to suggest a restaurant that is struggling, please let me know. I will pass it on to Eric and Annabel. It doesn’t have to be an ethnic restaurant. I am not privy to why the ones have been chosen in the past. I believe the restaurants have been owned by people who Annabel and Eric know.
A few of us have met several times at Starbucks. I know..laugh laugh. Yuppie coffee…cry me a river. However, I think the recent events in the economic news indicate why. 600 stores closing. Several of the local stores here are struggling. The stock is about less than half what it was worth 2 years ago. Regardless of the product, local people hurt when lay-offs occur.
Not all of us think the same way…not by far. The one common denominator the regulars have is: getting silenced on bvbl—not for having a foul mouth or constantly attacking someone but for voicing an opinion that wasn’t liked by the management, generally more than once. Most of us have been either terminated, censored, put into moderation or totally banished. One person I know got her remark zapped for asking what happened to certain people…as in where did they go. That is his right to silence people. No argument. So here we are.
Naturally, we have all be broad-brushed and ridiculed. Many of us came here with attitudes from having to do battle royal over on the black screen. I suppose if we didn’t have strong opinions, we wouldn’t be here. There are people here who I consider friends who I don’t always agree with. They certainly don’t agree with me. I think because we know each other in person or cyberly (if there is such a word) then we develop a different degree of civility than if we were all behind a computer screen.
If you would like to see a topic discussed, please suggest it. Do you think this blog would be successful if it attempted to move away from immigration issues periodically? What kind of issues would people like to see talked about? What would you like to discuss?
Casual Observer, 10. July 2008, 10:52
“My grandparents came here from Scotland (Paisley and Glasgow) in the 1920s. Settled in a largely Scottish community in the northeast US,”
==================================
From what I’ve been told, my Scottish ancestors came here in the early 1700 and settled in NorthWestern PA, around Punxsutawney. My father’s first cousin is the last Drummond in the area. I went back to the old country in 2005 thinking I could move to Scotland and reclaim the family castle…it is not worth it, the people living in the lands that the clan used to run engage in the national past time of gettin pissed drunk every night and complaining about Americans. I ran into more awkward situations with drunken Scotsmen than I have with any of the people in the NOVA community (illegals included). No one could recall a single Drummond living in the area and the Castle Gardens are a local tourist attraction, the keep it’s self is occupied by some “Angle” barronness. Most of the old churches were converted into huses, antique shops or Museams that charged a hefty cover fee (this is a big trend all over the UK, hardly anyone goes to church) even when I went to the 700 year old church that houses the tombs of the patriarcs, it was evident that some people had broke in the night before and had a large party, there were ribbons and half filled bottles of beer everywhere. Whatever was not riling around in a drunken haze, was strickly meant for tourist.
to top it off, the first and only man I ran into who was wearing a kilt, was at the town’s “Culteral Heritage” tourist center and it ended up that he was not even a Scot, he was a college kid from Alexandria VA, trying to make some extra money.
The countryside though, is still really wild and beautiful, but the funny thing is, the hometown (Krief) looks like any old railroad town in NW-PA. You would have though you were in the good ol’l USA (with a lot more public anglo drunkenness)
There is probally a Moral in this somewhere, but it would probally start a big blog fight on this thread, and I’m just not in the mood.
see ya t’night laddy, lest ye be hitten up a muckle o’tha hooch, ach!
see ya t’night laddy, lest ye be hitten up a muckle o’tha hooch, ach!
That’d be lassie (or, as my grandmother used to say, bonnie wee gettle (girl) , and I never touch the stuff! 🙂
What kind of issues would people like to see talked about? What would you like to discuss?
We’ve all got opinions on development within our county I’d venture to say. Additionally, we also have opinions on whether the two dominant political parties are doing more harm than good in tackling issues within our county. (Oops, my mama told me never to discuss politics or religion over meals or socially. Haha.) Do we want to become an upscale community like Fairfax? Yea or nay? And why? How are the solutions to our transportation problems coming along? Are we willing to pay higher taxes for more parks, better schools? Do we need more shopping centers? Are you just plain sick of shopping being about the only entertainment in PWC?
Rick, no punch bowl is going to be there but I hope you do show up. You don’t have to give your real name. Rick Bently will do.
I used to be an admirer of your posts on bvbl, on another planet, in another time. You used to write some very thoughtful, progressive comments over there. You didn’t have a party line. Has your neighborhood made you that angry?
Censored, Your momma was right. I was told the same thing.
I have lost touch with what development means. I drive around Fairlakes. Everything is so well groomed and gentrified. I come home and slide off the interstate, go down 28 if I have to drop a friend off, and I feel like I have just driven into No Man’s Land. That 28 corridor once you hit Bull Run has been horrible for years.
That place can only get better. Would development help? What could be done to just make the entrance into Manassas via Fairfax County just not be so fugly?
Casual, will you do that in person for us tonight?
Manassas City has some good-looking plans for older shopping areas/car lots but their implementation will be a long way off. The Rt. 28 entry into PWC is about as crappy looking as anything in NoVa can get….but a definate testimony to our being an auto-centric society.
We don’t have a single street light in Sudley. Most of the original gas lights are no longer operational and many of us did not convert over to electric. We started up with Supervisor Stirrup’s office over it but I don’t think it ever got off the ground. That would be a lot of street lights. Maybe if we started today, we would finish in 20 years.
I think a meeting to determine need was needed…if you get my drift.
“You used to write some very thoughtful, progressive comments over there. You didn’t have a party line.” I still don’t – maybe my posts on the other board make that clearer. I’m disgusted with both parties.
“Has your neighborhood made you that angry?” – Well it’s made me very very angry and changed my political beliefs. I’m more suspect now of the tyranny of government and of activist judges telling other people how to live.
Rick Bentley, buying a townhouse is always a crapshoot because just like an apartment, it shares walls. The one time I bailed from an “iffy” neighborhood was when I was in a condo/townhouse that shared an attic space with other units, half of which were vacant. It would never have met current fire codes because of the shared attic space and the fact that stud walls and drywall were the only thing separating the units. After the unit behind us was broken into, we decided to move. Luckily, we made a little chump change on the sale but we would have moved regardless. Sometimes that’s what you have to do – move.
Great picture in today’s WaPo PW section next to headline “In Sign of Support,
Indians Set Up Camp In Manassas” – three people standing in front of the sign
– two wearing mask.
Questions:
– Is this a leftist fashion statement? What do you think the likely
impact of seeing people in mask will have on the general public?
Garner support for their cause?
– Under Virginia law, is it legal for them to be wearing mask?
Perhaps this would fall under 18.2 -422 (section 3) of the Code of
Virginia which allows mask for individuals “engaged in any bona fide
theatrical production or masquerade.”
Another self-serving inflated ego feeding charade at the Fernandez wall.
Maybe I don’t have enough family income, censored, to pick up and move. So I’m still there. And perfectly happy, these days. My neighborhood appears safe.
it’s probably true that the discomfort many of us in PWC feel is as a result of sharing walls and lawns with the housefuls of illegals. Maybe this is why so many Americans feel less strongly about this – they live in detached houses.
Rick, been there. When you look at the loss on the value of your (and everyone else’s home) and that is even if you can find a buyer, it is difficult to escape.
I was stuck many years ago in a declining neighborhood. I escaped by renting a house in a better neighborhood and rented my house out. That was part of the deal. After several years I was able to dump the house in the bad neighbhood.
Have you checked with realtors to see if some of that creativity they used to sell $200k houses for $500k could now help you get in a more desirable neighborhood.
Censored is right. The closer the bad neighgbors are, the less tolerable the situation is.
I don’t think I became as bitter as you have become, even in a year. I think it is probably wise to be leery of all politicians. Some of the ones around here are as deceptive as the national ones, in my opinion.
Rick, you are right. Those of us in detached houses, even at ground zero, have not been hit as hard by bad neighbors. Even if we have bad neighbors, they aren’t as bad if there is a little yard between them and me. I live next door to a boarding house, but he has been rather selective in who he rents to. They do not cause anyone any problem.
RB, if you’re stuck and most of the problems are solved, let go of the anger. It won’t do you any good if you let it eat at you for any length of time. If your neighborhood is better, forget the past and enjoy the change. If it remains too bad, try to find a second job for a while and earmark all the income for a down payment elsewhere. There are probably some posters here who could tell you whether their single family home neighborhoods are improved enough to consider.
I haven’t been participating in the exchange above because I’ve been doing everything possible to get work done and make it to screening tonight.
But one thought I had in glancing at Moon-howler and Censored’s soothing words of encouragement for our fellow blog members suffering from anger problems.
I think Moon-howler and Censored are doing tremendous service in trying to provide an outlet and also some feedback for such individuals. A first step toward admitting a mistake is feeling as though you won’t be blamed or ridiculed for it. We are Virginians after all. Many of us multi-generational. We have a tradition of struggling over complex issues, fighting to sort it out, and then forgiving afterwards and becoming one people again.
Moon-howler and Censored, thanks for giving us hope. Thank you Rick for engaging with them.
Censored and I both grew up in the south. That is just how we do things.
WHWN, I don’t know if you were around on the blogs a year ago but Rick was one of the most articulate progressive contributers on the local blog with the dark screen (which is still easier for me to read). I always looked forward to reading his posts. He had some serious issues in his neighborhood but it hadn’t made him holistically bitter.
I need to listen to him. I have been trapped in a bad neighborhood before. It does give you a feeling of hopelessness. I understand why he is angry. When I was trapped, there wasn’t an Hispanic in sight so the idea of just deporting my troubles and woes wasn’t an option. I am not sure if that makes it easier or harder. Also, I am female. It gives you different coping skills. Not better, not worse, just different.
Rick is basically a good guy.
To all, while we look around at all the businesses who have been economically hurt during our Prince William County ‘experience,’ I completely forgot about garbage collection services. Those companies must be hurting with all the people moving out and just not paying the bill. Additionally, there are fewer people around to collect from. My waste disposal (sorry, I guess I need to be more genteel) company is wonderful I want to give them a plug here. Peake Disposal is terrific and they cost HALF what the big guys cost. Seriously, I pay under $35 a quarter. You also get to lock your rate in for a year. I don’t see how they do the job they do for that price. I have had them for almost a year now. If you have additional larger items, give them a call. I have never been charged. Twice a week pick up and a recycle. Can’t beat that!
That’s Peake Disposal!
I second Peak Disposal!
What she said….Peake Disposal 🙂
Just got back in from mowing the lawn. I’ve read MH’s posts, and they are good suggestions for bringing up some of the problems that bother me. Frankly you probably will say that it’s the same old points heard hundreds of times before, but those are the true issues that irritate the majority of us who detest illegal immigration. This dislike came about because of the shear numbers involved, and the first hand observations within the community I’ve lived in since 1979. Look, my focus is on the bad behavior of those I see behaving badly if you know what I mean. Granted not all illegals are a problem, but I really can’t think of how illegal immigration has improved my life either, so the negatives appear to far outweigh the positives. So overall it’s a bad thing, and hence I complain. It’s only human.
SA, I think that is a reasonable response. And yes, it is human nature. It is hard to rise about it when your quality of life is being disturbed.
I think many people here on this blog recognize that this area has some serious problems with immigration but want the rhetoric toned down and alternative approaches used to fix problems. Many people feel that we have no control over what the feds do therefore, we don’t want to dump a bunch of money into something that we have no control over.
Many people want to double, triple quadruple the resources into neighborhood service. I think all of us support the 287(g) program. We want convicted criminals removed. I believe most of us are glad that the resolution was redirected towards those arrested rather than simply probable cause.
Moon-howler and Censored, you must be having an affect on me. I left work today feeling as if I had lost the desire to be angry at some of the posters here, after seeing you two get better results by speaking to them respectfully and listening to the intent of their words rather than criticizing them for the way they come out.
Then, at the screening, I realized I was losing my desire to be angry at Corey Stewart, and, yes, even Greg Letiecq. In the early portion of the film, they are depicted as they were in campaign mode. At that point, while I didn’t care for their ethics, I saw their misdeeds as a thing of the past.
In the latter half of the film, I saw them as tragic. In once scene for instance, we see Greg standing outside the Board chamber on April 29th, peering in like a dog that’s been put out in the backyard because he messed the carpet, watching helplessly as his friend Corey Stewart is outwitted and overruled by his Board colleagues. It was incredible, actually, how silent Letiecq seemed in the second half of the film, except for one portion which is one of the best surprises so I won’t spoil it (taking after Elena).
Stewart is even more sympathetic as he seems to wrestle over doing what’s best for the county or pleasing his “base” as Frank Principi calls it. Well, perhaps I’m being to kind. Honestly, I’m not sure how to read him.
Stewart seemed to revert back to campaign mode all of the sudden on April 24th when Principi was in the Washington Post spilling the beans about the impending policy change. We see the “Fighting Illegal Immigration” Corey again, only this time there is a hint of regret in his eye. Or is it fear. Like the fear of losing face.
But my question is this: was this because of the Washington Post newspaper article, or was it something else? The biggest reveal in the film for me was that the newspaper article came out on the EXACT SAME DAY as the policy recommendation produced by the County Executive and the County attorney outlining the repeal of Probable Cause. Previously, I had thought that memo was produced during the 2 hour recess on the 29th. But it turns out it was the same day as the newspaper article. Is this a coincidence?
One thing is clear: the newspaper article provided just the opportunity Greg and Corey needed to get off the deck and start fighting back. But, were they completely shocked by the policy paper and then decided to fight back? Or, were they aware of the repeal of Probable Cause BEFORE the policy paper came out (someone could easily have told them) and then read the newspaper article and leaped of the mat to exploit it?
I suppose Corey and Greg are the only two people who know the answers. Of course, if they were to indicate one way or the other, they’d be admitting defeat, which doesn’t seem to be in their play book. So perhaps we’ll never find out.
But if this film is seen by enough people, they won’t have much choice about admitting defeat. If and when happens, I’d be forced to watch the movie again.
See, for me, I interpreted the nuances (there is A LOT between the lines) assuming that Corey is being hoodwinked on April 22.
But I’d watch it totally differently if Corey knew about the policy change all along, but only pretended to be outraged using the newspaper article as a firebrand. But from what we saw tonight, the safe conclusion to draw is that he was simply outwitted … meaning he didn’t realize that 5 or possibly 6 of his colleagues had agreed before hand that cutting the cameras out of the budget meant moving the immigration checks to after the arrest stage, instead of on the streets.
I’m sorry if you didn’t see the movie and you can’t understand this post as a result. They said that it would be screened again a next Friday at Bull Run Church.
I’m not saying I’m pleased to have Corey Stewart representing our county, but, for me, the experience made him more human even as the film is exposing his lies. I think this is perhaps because his colleagues are gentle in their criticism of him, which shows that they must agree with me that he is not a bad person; just a bad leader.
WHWN,
I missed the screening this unfortunately. I am glad to read you well thought review.
I don’t think Corey’s a bad person. I think he gets some bad advise from time to time. I think to better lead the county he should seek the advise and/or work more with his fellow board members. IMHO.
Let go of the anger? I THRIVE on anger and sarcasm. It makes life worth living! Thanks for the nice words Moon-howler.
I’m less angry than I was a year ago, but every bit as disgusted with National politics. It disgusts me that both parties have abandoned American citizens on this issue. The GOP puts the interests of the wealthy above fairness or attempts to secure borders – no surprise there to me. But the Democratic Party undercuts every one of its ostensible goals as I grew up understanding them (improved health care for Americans, war on poverty, reducing the gap between rich and poor, better education for our children, less wage disparity) for the sake of cultivating votes. No principals whatsoever.
I first started noticing the naked lunch on the end of the fork during the 2000 election debacle. I noticed that neither party seemed to actually stand for anything when the crunch came down except naked exercise of power to obtain office. Republicans eagerly sought court judgements to tell states they couldn’t interpret their own laws – states’ rights went right out the window. Democrats at every level of government in Florida and nationally also fell into a militaristic line as to whether to accept the valid vote counts or whether to prolong a losing fight (Congress was going to ratify Bush anyway) at the nation’s expense – and as “Fahrenheit 9/11” provides a lasting record of, had not the slightest interest collectively in investigating African-American disenfranchisement in Florida, simply because they saw no way it could change the election totals. Republicans abandoned core principals; Democrats made no attempt to represent a key constituency. It should have been obvious to us all that at core, each and every election is really about whether a core group of elitists will be able to get jobs and grant money to friends and family rather than any type of abstract principals.
Rick Bentley:
On this we can agree. Our soldiers are dying in iraq so each party can appear tough on terror. Our civil liberties are dying so each party can appear tough on terror.
Here’s a party that still has principles:
http://www.lp.org
Rick and Mackie, I am also not happy with the two major parties as they have behaved so far in this century. But any honest survey of recent history simply cannot be used to recommend a radical policy of removal by attrition targeting 12 million members of our nation’s inter-woven community. Neither can any honest survey of recent history be used as an argument against a reasonable, conservative approach to the immigration issue that involves legalization requirements and assimilation.
Rather, recent history has shown that governments go the WRONG way when right wing extremists seize power and moderates follow rather than lead. And, governments go the right way when the silent majority in the middle become motivated to fulfill their civic duty, vote, and participate in self-government.
Consider what brought us into the war in Iraq.
Most people associate “how we got in” with the lies we were told about WMD’s and the false connection between Iraq and 9/11. But along with misinformation, the political weaponization of fear-mongering and hate-mongering were vitally important tools … and are ALWAYS vitally important tools when right wing extremists seize control of a local or national government.
One thing will never change: Hate and fear are stronger motivators than best practices studies, wise leadership, and good policy. When extremists abuse power by, not only employing misinformation, but also hate-mongering and fear-mongering, it is incumbent on the moderates to push back. We did not, as a nation, do this in 2002. And thus the extremists were able to sell us a war for profit in Iraq. We did not, as a county, do this in 2007, and thus we are enduring the Duecaster Disaster.
Moderate Republicans and Democrats alike can be blamed for the war in Iraq because, in the face of war propaganda, fear, and hate, they lacked the courage, or, lacked the pride in principle to stand against it. When we see moderate leaders cower in the face of overwhelming propaganda campaigns for radical policies like war for profit or removal be attrition, it makes us likely to do the same. So off we marched to war in Iraq.
Moderate Republicans and Democrats can likewise be blamed for what happened in Prince William County. Here again, you have misinformation combined with fear-mongering and hate-mongering employed to seize control of a democracy. The moderates failed to take action, cowered in the face of electronically generated noise and hateful Citizens’ Time oratories. The moderates on the Board failed to oppose the short-sighted, soon-to-be proven disastrous Immigration Resolution.
I would like to think that each time history repeats itself (Jim Crow, Japanese Internment, McCarthyism and communism hysteria, War in Iraq, Neo-nativist immigration hysteria) we become less likely to repeat it again.
Perhaps this has been demonstrated in Prince William County, perhaps because the Iraq disaster was in the not too recent past. Or perhaps because Riverside, New Jersey and the state of Arizona had already passed ill-conceived and thoughtless laws only to rescind them as soon as they recognized the economic impact. For whatever reason, Prince William County officials were able to recognize the basic principle I stated above:
Governments go the wrong way when right wing extremists seize power and moderates follow rather than lead.
In April 2008, our Board members stood tall. The people stood with them. Justice was served, and our local democracy, although battered, proved itself to be the best form of government available on this earth.
Corey Stewart was right when he said in the Washington Post that one good thing that came about from the Immigration Resolution was that more people are aware of and involved in their local government. But for right wing extremists, this is the worst news of all. Because from now on, in a county of 400,000, it will take a lot more than 10 or 20 angry partisans, a blog, and an email list serve to seize control of our government. Why? Because the rest of us are paying attention now.
Rick,
Cheer!!! The old Rick I knew is back! Thriving on sarcasm and anger isn’t always bad if it is directed. I just didn’t see you as a radical republican. Not without a frontal lobotomy.
I feel that both parties have become so …I am searching for a word….entrenched in getting elected by all the special interest groups that must be whored to, that they have both forgotten about the average person. All the analysts and pollsters within a campaign seem to be there to remake the candidate into whatever will get the person elected. I don’t feel candidates have any real soul.
WHWN said:
And I think the same thing could be said inserting the world left wing extremists. Moderates cannot continue to allow extremists to set the entire political tone and climate. And we do it all the time….because we are moderates, and don’t like to ruffle feathers.
Most moderates were taught you don’t discuss politics or religion. We hand the reins over to the extremists in our moderation.
I agree, MH. Moderates and Independents need to get more involved and question all these talking points that both parties hand out so easily. There’s of course a mound of information to question at the federal and state levels. The task appears daunting. But there’s no reason whatsoever that we can’t get to the bottom of local issues and see whether a cost/benefit analysis would warrant following a particular path.
I honestly am beginning to think it is all about money. He who writes the biggest check wins the prize.
Amen! Both political parties go off the deep end, and those of us who are a bit less left-or-right-of-center are left with some evil choices. They are following a) the money and b) the votes, of which I have a) not a lot, and b) just one.
Of course there are extremists on all sides of all issues. But moderates in the Republicans have a higher calling, in my view, to stand up to extremists in their party because we have seen in recent U.S. and world history how horrific things can become when coalitions are built based on hatred and corporate greed. Unfortunately, the GOP of today is forced to span an incredibly wide reach to form a workable coalition. It cannot win without hateful and judgmental voters. And, it cannot win without militarists, war mongers, and oil barons.
What do these two really have in common? Not a lot, except that they both feel best represented by the GOP. That’s politics, and I can’t blame the GOP for being owned by one crowd and given lip-service to the other. The danger is when the ones who only get the lip-service … the hateful and judgmental ones … begin to take over the party.
That’s when the moderates either stand up and be counted or quit the party. We’ve seen examples of both during this tragic wave of anti-immigrant hysteria. As I’ve said, I prefer what McCain did to what, say, Tom Davis did even though I’m a great admirer of both.
Davis saw his on the verge of being overrun by hateful extremists, and when they snubbed him for the Senate bid, he decided to quit. I understand his frustration, believe me, but in my opinion, there is no more valuable American today than a moderate Republican, because when hateful extremists combine with the military industrial complex, some bad things can happen. McCain will probably lose, and he may retire soon after and be thought of as another Bob Dole. But when history looks back at his career, they will see a lifetime of service to this country, the greatest contribution having been standing tall and facing down the hateful extremists at F.A.I.R. who lined up behind Tancredo and Romney.
If he hadn’t achieved this improbable triumph, the whole country would be suffering the social and economic agony that Prince William County endured, starting about a year ago and lasting until April 29, 2008.
I feel that Tancredo wouldn’t have even had a shot at beating Obama. He was a single issue candidate. Romney…the jury is out still. He was Mr. Make-over. The bionic candidate: made over to be what the voters wanted. That to me is just bass-akwards.
Governor Romney, man with brain, was politically wounded for having such brain. We can rebuild him. We removed his skull-cap and put in the brain of Mike Hethmon from F.A.I.R. We also removed his conscience and his pride. We can build him dumber, less principled, and less capable than before. He still looks like a Ken doll, but now he thinks like an Anti-Immigrant bigot. If he’s the V.P. candidate, I’ll stop defending McCain.
I can see Lee Majors now, with the bionic man theme music in the background!
If Romney were the Presidential nominee, this election would be a race war. Thank God McCain has learned his lesson about using racism for political gain.